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Thanks. I thought i coud use bee wax, may be also diluted pvc e...
Korrugated cardboard !
There is a hard wood insert , but the capstans turn too easily...
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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How about Pin-Tite or CA glue?
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Garfield's tuning pin tightener will probably work, but you won't need to use much of it. I used this on a very loose let-off screw over 10 years ago...and it's still holding just fine.
Eric Gloo Piano Technician Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer Richfield Springs, New York
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I tried a bunch of stuff, and finally glued in a strip from a business card.
Semipro Tech
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I tried a bunch of stuff, and finally glued in a strip from a business card. Another win for cardboard/card stock!
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Paper will probably be too much in that case. Do you ever try bees wax (pure hard) ? it is not so slippery, I use it when installing new capstans may be it could help... as they are in brass, ca and pin tightener will not be enough probably, And want it to be discrete.. Thanks for your ideas -experiences.
Last edited by Kamin; 05/26/12 04:38 PM.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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Epoxy with a relief agent like plumbers tape.
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Dan, probably that plumber tape alone will suffice (if it is possible to screw it . it is very thin , it may do the job. I repaired the threaded end of my tuning lever Yamaha 5 years from today with some (without any other product) and it still hold well.
Thank you for the idea, I will let you know. The fact is that the capstans are unscrewed a little more than usually, so they turn too easily, there is no real play, it just could be firmer. I have used diluted glue on letoff dowels without much success.
I have no pin tite or similar , not tempted to buy some due to the stain marks. There are some products sold to repair the chairs assembly, sort of pin tite for furniture, may be they can do the job, they are solvent based if memory serves.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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I was going to suggest trying plumber's tape also.
BDB.. 101 uses for the business card.!
"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
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Thanks. I thought i coud use bee wax, may be also diluted pvc e...
Korrugated cardboard !
There is a hard wood insert , but the capstans turn too easily... On the advice of a colleague I tried a few drops of the thinnest CA adhesive I could find. I've now treated several full sets of capstans with the stuff with reasonable success. It's quick and easy to apply and, if you're neat about it, doesn't leave a big mess behind. The capstans are not quite as tight as they might be were they installed in nice, new wood but they are certainly tight enough to hold solidly. Make sure, if the holes are through-drilled, that you protect the area around the bottoms of the keys; this stuff is pretty thin and it can flow right on through. ddf
Delwin D Fandrich Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant ddfandrich@gmail.com (To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)
Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
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thanks yes I tried once and felt it was not enough. Did you take out the capstans? I like the bees wax idea as the stuff is somewhat hard. I will try both. for wax the capstan have to be unscrewed. May be i could heat the wax so to have enough in the wood, or mix with colophon. ..?
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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I have had success with a glue called "Chair Doctor" It swells and locks the wood. Item will still turn but it tightens a joint. Works well on screws.
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Bees wax is not a very hard wax. It is used to help things to slide more easily, such as threads on C clamps etc. If the brass capstans are already turning too easily, bees wax will only make them slip even easier. Furthermore, it can permeate the wood threads and make it impervious to something that would actually help, such as CA glue.
JG
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thanks yes I tried once and felt it was not enough. Did you take out the capstans? I like the bees wax idea as the stuff is somewhat hard. I will try both. for wax the capstan have to be unscrewed. May be i could heat the wax so to have enough in the wood, or mix with colophon. ..? I just put a couple of drops right at the point where the capstan entered the wood key body. ddf
Delwin D Fandrich Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant ddfandrich@gmail.com (To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)
Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
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I just repaired one of these last week on one of the Shout House pianos. I mashed a toothpick, coated it with a thin coating of Titebond, and shimmed the hole with it.
Worked perfectly. :shrug:
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If I understand it is Russian name "Pilot" screw on a key. When the pilot is weakened, I put on the pilot furrow of synthetic nylon filament 0,15-0,30(mm), water-soaked and screwed it into hole of key. Water use only for ficsation on furrows
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There is always value in using the most efficient yet highly effective method for anything. "Water thin" CA glue was my first reaction just upon reading the title of this thread. I have used it in such and instance many times. It works; it works well; it is a virtually instant fix and it is rather permanent. If the CA treatment ever needs to be repeated (such as if the capstan screw becomes loose again after some or many years), there is no reason that it cannot be repeated.
[The British term for the capstan screw is the "pilot" screw and other languages also use the equivalent word that means "pilot". "Capstan" is unique to North American terminology.]
I was glad to read Del's response because he has a good sense of what is effective and does not have any negative consequences (except that which he mentioned: the glue can actually travel all the way through the hole) and is a good solution to a problem depending on the circumstances.
Naturally, if one were doing a complete restoration, one might consider other remedies. However, I take it that the piano in question is one that is in service but the immediate problem is a loose capstan. There is simply no reason to be more elaborate than to carefully apply one to a few drops of CA glue to the base of the capstan screw and be done with it.
As soon as I or anyone may say this however, somebody else may say something like, "Well, I saw a piano where somebody had slobbered CA glue all over the place and really made a mess, so I would never do that".
There is a right way and a wrong way to do anything. It does not take more than a few tiny drops of glue to accomplish the goal. No glue needs or should be allowed to travel anywhere except in the hole. The capstan odes not need to be removed. No accelerator need or should be used. The capstan screw will be tight within minutes of CA glue application. If done properly, there would be little or no visible evidence that CA glue had even been used.
To do this well, the applicator should only allow a tiny drop at a time. Use a fresh glue cap or put the glue in an applicator that will allow for only a small amount to be applied. If a different applicator is used, be sure to clear it when finished apply the glue or it will be clogged and useless after that. Acetone can be used to dissolve a clogged applicator but the whole idea is to be done with the task in minutes, not hours.
The very same holds true for many loose tuning pin problems. Certainly not all such problems but many a loose tuning pin can be easily remedied using the very same technique. Also, many stripped screw holes are quite easily and quickly remedied permanently using one CA glue technique or another. Experience and careful use are key to success versus creating a nightmare for the next technician who comes along. Less is more. CA glue, when and where it is needed can be quite effective but when it gets where it is not needed, it certainly will create a problem.
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Dan, probably that plumber tape alone will suffice (if it is possible to screw it . it is very thin , it may do the job. I repaired the threaded end of my tuning lever Yamaha 5 years from today with some (without any other product) and it still hold well.
Thank you for the idea, I will let you know. The fact is that the capstans are unscrewed a little more than usually, so they turn too easily, there is no real play, it just could be firmer. I have used diluted glue on letoff dowels without much success.
I have no pin tite or similar , not tempted to buy some due to the stain marks. There are some products sold to repair the chairs assembly, sort of pin tite for furniture, may be they can do the job, they are solvent based if memory serves. Hi Isaac, Wrap the plumbers tape around the threads, and then line the walls of the hole with epoxy. Then screw the capstan in and let the epoxy form new threads around the existing threads. The plumbers tape allows you to get the screw out later to remove the tape. Same as doing a plate screw or any other type of threaded wood hole. Or leave the tape in place.It doesn’t hurt anything. Toothpicks or planer shavings also do the trick.
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[The British term for the capstan screw is the "pilot" screw and other languages also use the equivalent word that means "pilot". "Capstan" is unique to North American terminology.]
Thank, Bill i understood
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Dan, probably that plumber tape alone will suffice (if it is possible to screw it . it is very thin , it may do the job. I repaired the threaded end of my tuning lever Yamaha 5 years from today with some (without any other product) and it still hold well.
Thank you for the idea, I will let you know. The fact is that the capstans are unscrewed a little more than usually, so they turn too easily, there is no real play, it just could be firmer. I have used diluted glue on letoff dowels without much success.
I have no pin tite or similar , not tempted to buy some due to the stain marks. There are some products sold to repair the chairs assembly, sort of pin tite for furniture, may be they can do the job, they are solvent based if memory serves. Hi Isaac, Wrap the plumbers tape around the threads, and then line the walls of the hole with epoxy. Then screw the capstan in and let the epoxy form new threads around the existing threads. The plumbers tape allows you to get the screw out later to remove the tape. Same as doing a plate screw or any other type of threaded wood hole. Or leave the tape in place.It doesn’t hurt anything. Toothpicks or planer shavings also do the trick. Thank you Dan, I will try that on glide bolts threads that turn too easily, next time... I get it. I have no much time to do so so I used a 2 drops of CA, it is enough to brake a little the capstan but I believe I dont have a very fluid quality. I have used dental dental thread it is strong enough (it can help for flange cords too) How is qualified the very thin CA ? what is its primarly use or quality? All the CA I had seem to have a similar fluidity, only some are thicker due to their "wood" quality (but I did not search much) I can find all the "Cyanolit" products. Talking of Bees wax, I have a very hard quality I use on wood screws or when inserting new brass capstans, indeed it is more used to lube than anything, but I will try, just too se it it say put (while I am far from sure) Thanks to all others for your answers.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
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