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#1903391 - 05/26/12 09:40 AM OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics
piano joy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 807
Loc: Florida
Seems odd on so many levels, I don't know where to begin.
Don't get me wrong, I like my fast food burger fix every so often, but this just doesn't sound right. Well, I guess business is business.

Apparently, the Academy of Royal Medical Colleges is not happy with this.

What's everyone else think?
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#1903609 - 05/26/12 06:49 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
zrtf90 Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2225
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Ooh, piano joy, my hobby horse topic! smile

The UK also have Flora sponsor the London marathon! If you don't have it in the US, Flora is a butter substitute made with vegetable oils.

Despite the Academy's good intentions (they launched a major campaign last month to try and fight obesity), I doubt they have enough cash to thwart Big Pharma and food companies that make a killing (intentional pun) on obesity so I don't know what their findings are going to be. We live in hope.

This is the response of the Department of Health:

Quote:
Businesses are committing to pledges and making a difference far more rapidly than we could achieve through legislation. Through the Responsibility Deal, major retailers and food manufacturers have already set a wide range of commitments to help people to cut their calorie consumption. This comes on top of an impressive number of high street restaurants and other out-of-home food retailers calorie-labelling their food.


Obesity does not come from excess calories - it comes from excess carbohydrates!

Two and a half million years of evolution wiped out with a food pyramid!

We know what works for obesity (and all the other degenerative diseases; diabetes, Alzheimer's, CHD, cancer). Atkins knew too. Gary Taubes knows.

Eat meat, fat and salad vegetables. Reduce carbohydrates that need to be cooked before we eat them (bread, rice, pasta, potatoes - which we didn't have before the agricultural revolution) and ditch refined carbs (sugar and white bread - which we didn't have before the industrial revolution).

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#1903778 - 05/27/12 05:41 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
casinitaly Offline

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 4663
Loc: Italy
Richard, I agree with you in part - everyone now adays pretty well knows what you should eat to have a good diet. Refined is not better!
Modern "improvements" are not really that.

Big business is big business and I think it is here to stay -it is hard to fight- but if people made different choices, business would react more.
In fact, it doesn't take too much to see that - for example - Macdonalds has made changes to what it offers in the last few years and is (in some ways and to some degree) more aware and helpful in presenting healthier alternatives to their older menu.

However, honestly, I don't have a problem with Macdonald's being a sponsor. Nor coca-cola, nor ..I don't know.. Canadian Club whiskey....whomever.

The products are not the bad guys. People's abuse of the products is the problem.

No one is going to have health problems if they eat at the golden arches once or twice a year (mind you, I choose to partake elsewhere simply because I'm not fond of their offering for the most part).

No one is going to get fat having a coke every now and then, and problems are not likely to arise from a drink once in a while.

The problem is moderation - or rather that people don't use moderation.

We have an widespread issue of obesity nternationally in wealthy countries because people will not be moderate.Portions are exaggerated and have been for years.

People choose to not eat and drink what is good for them.

People opt for the pre-packaged prepared meals rather than cooking with their own ingredients - it saves time, it is easier, maybe even cheaper....but it carries its own risk.

People make choices, and often choices that are bad for them.

Cigarettes, liquor, drugs, soft drinks ...hamburgers and fries. They can all cause problems, it is up to individuals to decide to do what is best for themselves.

I can't turn Macdonalds into a "bad guy" character.
I just choose not to eat there.

And, in case that sounds smug in any way - I don't mean it to.... I too suffer from lack of moderation at times and i fight other battles. Pasta - in any form, cheese, potato chips... I love these things and I know I can eat them.... but I have to work at not over indulging.

Sometimes I manage it. smile



Edited by casinitaly (05/27/12 05:43 AM)
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#1903845 - 05/27/12 10:16 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
KeysAngler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 228
Loc: The Fabulous Florida Keys
McDonalds is just part of the corporate rat race that is taking over the world. The bad thing is even if you win the rat race you're still a rat.

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#1903863 - 05/27/12 11:07 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1432
Loc: Australia
Welcome to London 2012. But first take a walk through the shopping centre.

Yes, 70% of visitors will make their entrance through Westfields shopping centre, and MacDonalds is the only, and I use the term loosely, 'food' available on the site.

Truly this encapsulates the Olympic spirit in all it's glory mad
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#1903890 - 05/27/12 12:08 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
ClsscLib Online   content

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1584
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Casini has it right. The one thing successful big businesses are good at is giving a large number of people what they want.

Truly, McDonalds doesn't care whether they make a dollar from selling a hamburger or selling a green salad. When enough people choose to express a preference for salads, McDonalds will be there to deliver them.

IMHO blaming business for every bad choice individuals make is, as we used to say in the sixties, a cop-out.
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#1903919 - 05/27/12 01:03 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 1801
Loc: Rocky Mountains
In defense of McDonalds...
I agree that what people want is what they are serving.
I remember years ago. McDonalds came out with a healthy hamburger. I think it was very low fat. Wheat bun. Choose what goes on it... I really liked it...Guess what? They couldn't sell them! Had to quit on them.
They give the public what they public wants.

I was just watching a video on nutrition. A guy from UC Berkeley. He says the only food in the grocery store is in the produce, and meat sectons. Most of the grocery store is simply: Edible food like substances.
_________________________
Ron
Ingrid, my beloved VPC : "Play it Sam....For old times sake...Play it for me...I'll sing it with you...Play me again, Sam."

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#1904028 - 05/27/12 05:33 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: rnaple]
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Another Country
I can highly recommend Robert Lustig's 2009 UCSF mini-medical school lecture Sugar: The Bitter Truth (90 minutes). Excellent treatment of fructose.



Goes a long way to explain what's been going on for the last thirty years.
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Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)


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#1904112 - 05/27/12 08:02 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 1801
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Thank you: Eglantine...that was really good.

I can remember years ago going to Community College in the evenings after work. Just common sense I needed decent nutrition. I would eat dinner at the college. Get the dieticians dinner. Good food. I was in line one night when they were training a new girl on serving. She said: I want to go work in that line. (the junk food line...burgers, tacos, fries, etc.) The lady training her said: Oh no! You don't want to do that! Those people are mean! That's the tough place to work! This is the easy place to work! These people are nice!
Not long after that. The student body voted out the good "dieticians" food from the cafeteria. All they had left was junk food. Sad...
_________________________
Ron
Ingrid, my beloved VPC : "Play it Sam....For old times sake...Play it for me...I'll sing it with you...Play me again, Sam."

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#1904137 - 05/27/12 09:26 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
CebuKid Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1173
Aaahhh..I love OT topics here..lol

This one is one of my favorites. First off, I recommend to you all to read "The Omnivore's Dilemma" by Michael Pollan. It is a real eye opener on what "we" eat and the food choices that we make.

There is one memorable chapter in there in which the author describes a family trip to McD's. Basically, he points out that people never really taste or savor a McDonald's burger, but it's eaten typically within 10 minutes. When was the last time you tasted and savored the actual "meat"? Think about this the next time you bight into a quarter pounder (or in Europe, a Royale with Cheese) or Big Mac. The food scientists here in Oakbrook, IL (suburban Chicago) have formulated these foods in such a way to make people wolf down and gobble the the many preservatives, salt, and yes, the abundance of sugar in McD's offerings...kind of like potato chips - you can't stop eating them. Their formulations give people a temporary, endorphin-releasing euphoria whilst they eat. Super-sizing has been around for the last several decades. When I was a kid in the '70s, what was once a large drink is now a small. It's how McD's turns a profit and keeps people coming back. The meat, by the way, is of the lowest quality. They come from old dairy cows that are about to be put down, and of course, they come from CAFO's (factory farms) where the U.S. industrial food system force feeds our cattle gentically modified corn and loads our beef with antibiotics. McDonalds is at the root of our nation's obesity epidemic and is why almost 3/4 of our population is obese and why half of our children now have type 2 diabetes. Lastly, you guys don't want to know what's in a McNugget, but I will tell you this. MOST of it ain't chicken. Anyway, I haven't eaten at McD's (or Wendy's or Burger King) since August of last year.

I could go on, but I have to go practice..lol. Anyway, this so-called corporate sponsorship of man's most major athletic event is wrong (and ironic) on so many levels.
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#1904224 - 05/28/12 01:46 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: CebuKid]
polyphasicpianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 1238
I was rooting for the BigMac, but it was no match for the fries. BTW: if your on a diet, your welcome.



I loved what one of the YouTube comments said in response to this video:

"Contrary to popular opinion, McDonalds may have saved all our lives by figuring out how to live forever!"


Edited by polyphasicpianist (05/28/12 02:19 AM)
Edit Reason: It occurred to me that keeping a jar of these fries might serve as a nice visual reminder to eat healthy. It would also make a great conversation piece for the living room. Sorta like a cactus, it doesn't really grow, but it doesn't really die either.

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#1904248 - 05/28/12 03:57 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Another Country
Cebukid, the Lustig video has extensive facts and figures on the super-sizing trend over time.

He also includes he exact salt and sugar in 'old coke' and 'new coke'.
The salt is put there to induce thirst. The sugar is to cover up all that salt. New coke used majorly more of both. As he says in the video, "these people knew EXACTLY what they were doing".

The hidden HFCS in just about all processed food is terrifying. And as some other endocrinologist points out somewhere else on YT, the FDA only obliges manufacturers to include 'sucrose' in their sugar data on the package. They can ignore all the other kinds of sugar!

Lustig states obesity is now starting at 0-6 months infants in the US. One of the main reasons for infant obesity is bottle feeding. These kids are already getting metabolic syndrome and insulin problems before they go to playgroup. As Lustig says, "these are not kids that have 'chosen to be obese'". They just are being fed junk full of HFCS and fructose, before they can talk, walk, or feed themselves. And of course, they then have their - high - sugar preferences set for life.

I don't see this as an issue just of personal choice. If you install coke/soda machines in your schools and hospitals (and even in children's hospitals), and pump HCFS-foods across national television 24/7, including children's TV, and feed your kids that junk at school and at home, and then you end up with a national health disaster that you can't afford to pay for, then it becomes everybody's problem. Each obese kid costs $11,000 a year to treat. 24% of US kids are now obese, and the figures are rising. And these kids are not just obese: they are suffering from expensive middle-age diseases.
_________________________
Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)


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#1904251 - 05/28/12 04:14 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: rnaple]
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Another Country
Originally Posted By: rnaple
In defense of McDonalds...
I agree that what people want is what they are serving.
I remember years ago. McDonalds came out with a healthy hamburger. I think it was very low fat. Wheat bun. Choose what goes on it... I really liked it...Guess what? They couldn't sell them! Had to quit on them.
They give the public what they public wants.

I was just watching a video on nutrition. A guy from UC Berkeley. He says the only food in the grocery store is in the produce, and meat sectons. Most of the grocery store is simply: Edible food like substances.


Quite right. The entire premise of food 'manufacturing' is by processing to turn a super-low-cost product - invariably corn - into a high-'value' item, something they can charge a lot more for. The industry calls this 'added value'. Hmm. I call it the art of selling a pig in a poke.

There are products that you would never connect to corn that have 100% of their calories derived from corn. From HFCS. Like Coke.

If the liver treats HFCS and alcohol in exactly the same way (with exactly the same metabolic results) and HFCS is just alcohol without the buzz (as Lustig shows in his amazing liver diagrams), then I think I prefer alcohol every time.
_________________________
Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)


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#1904254 - 05/28/12 04:45 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Another Country
Casinitaly, I'd disagree that people can 'decide' about HFCS foods. HFCS completely disrupts the body's ability to send the message 'I've had enough' (apart from a whole panoply of other pretty bad effects). Watch Lustig's video for a complete walk-through of the biochemistry, with the interesting comparison of HFCS and alcohol processes (identical). HFCS does not exist in nature. Concentrated fructose does not exist in nature. Our bodies cannot deal with it in a sustainable way. At least with alcohol, you get the brain effect of 'I've had a drink'. The same with drugs. No such effect with HFCS. He describes HFCS as a toxin, and in many ways it's a much more insidious toxin than drink or drugs or others.

This is no longer just a wealthy-world, US/Europe problem. The US has now exported the model to many developing countries, and to countries with traditionally excellent diets.
_________________________
Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)


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#1904272 - 05/28/12 06:51 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
casinitaly Offline

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 4663
Loc: Italy
Eglantine, to a point, I'm willing to "backdown" on my choice comments. To a point: I do agree that there are many instances where it is really hard to know what is in something you have chosen to eat. The HFCS issue is a huge factor. I personally had no clue of this issue until about a year ago, talking to my sister who lives in Canada.

Probably, the fact that I've lived here in Italy for almost 20 years has a lot to do with that lack of knowledge on my part. Prepared foods are not as popular here as in Canada and the US, and I presume also in the UK.

While you can certainly buy processed cheeses and other products - they are still less prevalent (though I'm sad to say they are steadily making their way into the market and gaining a foothold.)

Even the fast food places here - the Italian ones at least, have better, healthier products.

So, yes, I agree that nasty stuff can get into your system by flying in under the radar, and that people still do need to be more educated on these toxic substances that are (in some cases) imposed on them unknowingly.

However, even without being up to date on HFCS and the like, I think it is safe to say that most people know that drinking a lot of coke isn't good for you, nor is eating at Macdonalds regularly good for you - and everyone surely knows that huge portions are neither necessary nor desirable. I see what you are saying about the chemicals "tricking" us - but I still maintain that people in many many cases do make the choice to go for the "full meal" rather than just the burger - to have the extra-large popcorn rather than a small or medium one, to have x number of colas a day.

I think it is sickening that we see so many obese kids in the UK, in Canada, in the US - and yes, that is now starting to show up here as a fairly recent phenonmenon. I believe in part it has to do with the (also fairly recent ) phenomenon of both parents working and
a) taking kids out for "treats" at Macdonalds and the like
b) grandparents babysitting and over indulging the grandkids
c) lack of physical activity - too many computer/nintendo/video games and not enough bike riding and running about outdoors playing sports, tag, hide-n-go-seek what have you.

I'm still not completely willing to say we are helpless pawns totally at the mercy of the food industry. Our brains may not be programmed to recognize signals from certain foods - but to a point, we should know even before buying them that they aren't good for us and just keep away from them.

Like me with potato chips (crisps for my British chums)... I know that if I start, I will finish whatever quantity is in front of me. I don't buy them, I won't have them in the house and I try very hard to avoid them when I'm out. I'm not always successful but I'm aware they aren't good for me and try. I maintain that a lot of people are aware that what they're eating and drinking is bad for them - but they don't try to avoid those foods/drinks.


I haven't had time to sit and watch the video you posted yet, but I hope to have a look at it later today /tomorrow.


I think that we're all in agreement that there are some pretty serious issues internationally with the food industry - and that the situation is very out of control and will take huge efforts on all levels - government, business, medical and yes individuals! to get things back on track.
_________________________
Interested in MOYD? Check out the RULES!
XVIII-XXXIII
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

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#1904311 - 05/28/12 09:11 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Another Country
Casinitaly, we are certainly not helpless pawns, BUT every time the processed-junk industry gets a lift-up from government is a bad moment. It says, 'This stuff is great and fine", when it clearly isn't. It only takes one can of whatever a day to make an obese kid, in one year. For life.

I have a rule. No junk. Period.

That means, for example, that I bake all my own bread, as 99.9% of bread in supermarkets here in the UK contains plenty of HFCS. Bread in supermarkets is 'Chorleywood method' (not really bread-making; I grew up near Chorleywood, and have followed the 'product' over the years since it was invented) plus HFCS. The so-called soda bread from my national supermarket is full of HFCS. And that's supposed to be the 'good' stuff. Ha!

But, you still consume junk if you go out with friends for a pizza anywhere in Europe, or China, or a restaurant meal in India or Jakarta, or whatever.

I have an eat-from-home rule. But there's still junk there in my frame of reference. And I'm not some kid (who knows less than me).

According to Lustig and many other expert endocrinologists, physical activity has absolutely no impact on any of the above. Physical activity does not change the metabolic processes of the liver and so on. It does not change how you process HFCS. It really doesn't matter if you run, hike, whatever. That is NOT what this stuff is about. (Long story)
_________________________
Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)


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#1904322 - 05/28/12 09:32 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
casinitaly Offline

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 4663
Loc: Italy
Eglantine, you've obviously given more thought to - and are much more knowledgeable than I am on - this subject.

When you you make your points, I certainly do see what you're getting.

I think there are 2 points - (well, no there are tons of points!)... but 2-3 I can focus on with my knowledge and experience.

1. I can see that with the HFCS, this is, really, nothing short of a poison, and ok, I can understand that excericse isn't going to help your liver.

My point on excercise is that in combination with the overlarge portions and poor eating habits (even taken without the HFCS issue)-- lack of exercise contributes to health problems we see in so many people today and I think - that younger people in particular are paying a price for not being more physically active.

2. You have a rule - no junk, period. I say Brava! And I mean that very sincerely. I then ask the question - if you can make your no-junk rule, and I can work on my rules, and the other folks who are concerned about these issues are making their rules - then surely a lot more people could be setting their own rules and sticking to them, couldn't they?

I know a bit about the problem - you know significantly more - I have friends who are better educated on these matters than I am - I seem to know a number of well-informed people nonetheless, it seems to me that the people who have chosen to be educated, who have researched , who care enough to make choices, are a small minority indeed.

In this area, as in so many - there are too many people who won't ask questions, who won't investigate, who won't even pay attention to information that is put in front of them - who will continue to made bad choices or, maybe even worse, to make no choice and just go with the flow of what they see, rather than seeking out a better alternative.

There is a problem - and one or two ordinary folks making choices isn't going to make a difference to any industry - but if a lot more people became more interested in what should really be of great concern to them..... amazing things could and would happen.

Now I'm increasingly curious about watching your link!
_________________________
Interested in MOYD? Check out the RULES!
XVIII-XXXIII
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

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#1904329 - 05/28/12 09:54 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: casinitaly]
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Another Country
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
Eglantine, you've obviously given more thought to - and are much more knowledgeable than I am on - this subject.

When you you make your points, I certainly do see what you're getting.

I think there are 2 points - (well, no there are tons of points!)... but 2-3 I can focus on with my knowledge and experience.

1. I can see that with the HFCS, this is, really, nothing short of a poison, and ok, I can understand that excericse isn't going to help your liver.

My point on excercise is that in combination with the overlarge portions and poor eating habits (even taken without the HFCS issue)-- lack of exercise contributes to health problems we see in so many people today and I think - that younger people in particular are paying a price for not being more physically active.


Cheryl, I promise not to Fisk**

but
Lack of exercise these days is almost instructed from on high.
I mean, the working day here used to be to 5pm, now it's 6.30-7pm PLUS. Many people here are here until midnight. And they are here at the weekend.
In any sector I work with - various, from old skool to new - the working day is back where it was in the 19th C.

Portion size is largely outside of the groups concerned. They don't decide the portion sizes.

2. You have a rule - no junk, period. I say Brava! And I mean that very sincerely. I then ask the question - if you can make your no-junk rule, and I can work on my rules, and the other folks who are concerned about these issues are making their rules - then surely a lot more people could be setting their own rules and sticking to them, couldn't they?

I know a bit about the problem - you know significantly more - I have friends who are better educated on these matters than I am - I seem to know a number of well-informed people nonetheless, it seems to me that the people who have chosen to be educated, who have researched , who care enough to make choices, are a small minority indeed.

They are a small minority who fight the system, indeed

In this area, as in so many - there are too many people who won't ask questions, who won't investigate, who won't even pay attention to information that is put in front of them - who will continue to made bad choices or, maybe even worse, to make no choice and just go with the flow of what they see, rather than seeking out a better alternative.

There is a problem - and one or two ordinary folks making choices isn't going to make a difference to any industry - but if a lot more people became more interested in what should really be of great concern to them..... amazing things could and would happen.

Now I'm increasingly curious about watching your link!


it's very rare that people have info put in front of them. I haven't seen it. And I have worked from automotive shop-floor to digital media banking.
_________________________
Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)


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#1904331 - 05/28/12 09:55 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: Eglantine]
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Another Country
Originally Posted By: casinitaly
Eglantine, you've obviously given more thought to - and are much more knowledgeable than I am on - this subject.

When you you make your points, I certainly do see what you're getting.

I think there are 2 points - (well, no there are tons of points!)... but 2-3 I can focus on with my knowledge and experience.

1. I can see that with the HFCS, this is, really, nothing short of a poison, and ok, I can understand that excericse isn't going to help your liver.

My point on excercise is that in combination with the overlarge portions and poor eating habits (even taken without the HFCS issue)-- lack of exercise contributes to health problems we see in so many people today and I think - that younger people in particular are paying a price for not being more physically active.


Cheryl, I promise not to Fisk**

but
Lack of exercise these days is almost instructed from on high.
I mean, the working day here used to be to 5pm, now it's 6.30-7pm PLUS. Many people here are here until midnight. And they are here at the weekend.
In any sector I work with - various, from old skool to new - the working day is back where it was in the 19th C.

Portion size is largely outside of the groups concerned. They don't decide the portion sizes.

2. You have a rule - no junk, period. I say Brava! And I mean that very sincerely. I then ask the question - if you can make your no-junk rule, and I can work on my rules, and the other folks who are concerned about these issues are making their rules - then surely a lot more people could be setting their own rules and sticking to them, couldn't they?

I know a bit about the problem - you know significantly more - I have friends who are better educated on these matters than I am - I seem to know a number of well-informed people nonetheless, it seems to me that the people who have chosen to be educated, who have researched , who care enough to make choices, are a small minority indeed.

They are a small minority who fight the system, indeed

In this area, as in so many - there are too many people who won't ask questions, who won't investigate, who won't even pay attention to information that is put in front of them - who will continue to made bad choices or, maybe even worse, to make no choice and just go with the flow of what they see, rather than seeking out a better alternative.

There is a problem - and one or two ordinary folks making choices isn't going to make a difference to any industry - but if a lot more people became more interested in what should really be of great concern to them..... amazing things could and would happen.

Now I'm increasingly curious about watching your link!


it's very rare that people have info put in front of them. I haven't seen it. And I have worked from automotive shop-floor to digital media banking.
[/quote]
_________________________
Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)


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#1904332 - 05/28/12 09:56 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Another Country
Sorry, I haven't figured out how to quote various things.
_________________________
Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)


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#1904334 - 05/28/12 10:05 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: CebuKid]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 1801
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Originally Posted By: CebuKid
Aaahhh..I love OT topics here..lol

This one is one of my favorites. First off, I recommend to you all to read "The Omnivore's Dilemma" by Michael Pollan. It is a real eye opener on what "we" eat and the food choices that we make...


Yes....I recognize that book. That is the UC Berkley Professor who I watched his youtube videos. Commented on the supermarket products. Please forgive my mental laziness. I should read that book as I proclaim myself a proud Omnivore. smile

Please don't anybody say exercise doesn't matter. It is very important. I have found through personal experience. There is a lack of smart exercise out there. Another "junk food" dilemna?
_________________________
Ron
Ingrid, my beloved VPC : "Play it Sam....For old times sake...Play it for me...I'll sing it with you...Play me again, Sam."

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#1904368 - 05/28/12 11:33 AM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: Eglantine]
polyphasicpianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 1238
Originally Posted By: Eglantine


I have a rule. No junk. Period.



This is actually a very good rule to have, because, if you persist in it long enough, the cravings for junk food will actually cease entirely, due to a psychological process known as extinction.


I have often wondered what role "vanity" could play in helping people eat healthier and exercise more. It seems to me that the most unexploited aspect of promoting healthy eating and living is that you look better because of it. Who cares if you live longer, have a lower risk of almost every disease known to man, and generally feel better? You will look great! Of course, someone might point out that fad diets have done nothing but exploit vanity, but fad diets generally do not provide realistic or healthy solutions. That being said, you can't deny that they are highly effective at selling their product.

For instance, ladies, given the choice would you rather look like this:



or this:




Why don't we see the various health organizations exploiting the most obvious and, lets face it, most desirable fact about healthy living? Namely, good looks. It would be soooo easy to launch an absolute assault on the junk-food industry, the "healthy" junk-food industry (a insidiously deceptive subsection of the former), the fad-diet industry, the cosmetic industry, and the cosmetic surgery industry on this basis alone. Yet, by and large, this tactic is not used. I say, beat them at their own game and hit them where it hurts.

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#1904390 - 05/28/12 12:17 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
KeysAngler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 228
Loc: The Fabulous Florida Keys
Couldn't help thinking about this song after reading this thread ...


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#1904435 - 05/28/12 01:40 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: polyphasicpianist]
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Another Country
Originally Posted By: polyphasicpianist
Originally Posted By: Eglantine


I have a rule. No junk. Period.



This is actually a very good rule to have, because, if you persist in it long enough, the cravings for junk food will actually cease entirely, due to a psychological process known as extinction.


I have often wondered what role "vanity" could play in helping people eat healthier and exercise more. It seems to me that the most unexploited aspect of promoting healthy eating and living is that you look better because of it. Who cares if you live longer, have a lower risk of almost every disease known to man, and generally feel better? You will look great! Of course, someone might point out that fad diets have done nothing but exploit vanity, but fad diets generally do not provide realistic or healthy solutions. That being said, you can't deny that they are highly effective at selling their product.

For instance, ladies, given the choice would you rather look like this:



or this:




Why don't we see the various health organizations exploiting the most obvious and, lets face it, most desirable fact about healthy living? Namely, good looks. It would be soooo easy to launch an absolute assault on the junk-food industry, the "healthy" junk-food industry (a insidiously deceptive subsection of the former), the fad-diet industry, the cosmetic industry, and the cosmetic surgery industry on this basis alone. Yet, by and large, this tactic is not used. I say, beat them at their own game and hit them where it hurts.


1. Um, I have never had any cravings for junk anything. I was raised on a Med diet.

2. I've been around 125-135 lb most of my life, dipping down to <100 lb after a serious accident. I am 5' 6''. My BMI was measured as on the low side of normal when I lived in abroad for several years (18).

With a BMI of 18 as measured by the local health service, I was on video at the time looking 'average', though just within the normal range 18-25. i.e. not totally completely skinny, but fairly thin.

At the time of the accident, three years earlier, I was BMI <14, and that was not at all 'normal', I mean I was in the anorexic range, and I did not have full body functions, but I kinda looked normal-ish in photos of the time, as long as I was wearing a big jacket to hide whatever underneath).

It's really not a question of what you want to look like. I do kinda prefer not looking BMI <14, because that was a seriously s**t position to be in, physically. For example, I had no energy at all, and I could only sleep upright for several months, sporadically, owing to the pain from my many broken bones. I mean, you don't want to be in that place, physically, irrespective of the weight.

You also have serious issues conceiving with a BMI of <14. Basically, it's not normal.
_________________________
Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)


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#1904441 - 05/28/12 02:03 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: Eglantine]
polyphasicpianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 1238
Eglantine, I hope you don't think I was advocating malnourishment for the sake of looks? If a person is malnourished they are, by definition, not eating healthy. What's more, I can't say I have heard of many people (apart from Haute couture fashion designers) who find emaciation particularly attractive.

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#1904458 - 05/28/12 02:42 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: polyphasicpianist]
CebuKid Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1173
Originally Posted By: polyphasicpianist


I have often wondered what role "vanity" could play in helping people eat healthier and exercise more.


Vanity plays a very big role on my part. smile This is a big reason I took up running this year, and finished my first 5k of the year (in 29:04) a week ago. smile

I guess you can call it another one of my mid-life crises. I don't want to look like the "typical" 40-something.
_________________________
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Music washes away from the soul
the dust of everyday life.
- Berthold Auerbach



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#1904465 - 05/28/12 03:01 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: polyphasicpianist]
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Another Country
Originally Posted By: polyphasicpianist
Eglantine, I hope you don't think I was advocating malnourishment for the sake of looks? If a person is malnourished they are, by definition, not eating healthy. What's more, I can't say I have heard of many people (apart from Haute couture fashion designers) who find emaciation particularly attractive.


Having been myself all the relevant weights, I would say that what is depicted in most magazines is in the 'not normal' range. That is indeed what is found to be attractive, as far as the media are concerned.

I've done sub-0 (US) size (by 'accident') and I've been right up to 8 (US: UK 12), and I know what these look like in real life (press photos), and I would say that sub-US-size 6 (UK 10) is pretty much the only thing that the press US/UK regards as acceptable. Which for a 5'6" woman is sub-15/16 BMI. Which is the point at which your (female) bodily functions start to cease. That's as big as you can get on TV, for example, before you are described as 'fat'. (Funnily, people really do look different on TV, a normal person in RL can look slightly fat on TV when they are not. TV tends to 'add a size')

_________________________
Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)


Top
#1904481 - 05/28/12 03:42 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Another Country
PPP, to follo up your example, the woman in the first shot probably trains for 6-10 hours a day.

It is not 'normal' to train for 6-10 hours a day. That is not what most people do, male or female. It is not 'normal' to lose your periods, but that is what many, many female athletes experience. They become infertile. Is that what you describe as 'normal'?

Perhaps we could have some indications of what GUYS' sizes 'should' be. And that would kind of turn the tables. When did you last weigh 140 lb?
_________________________
Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)


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#1904489 - 05/28/12 04:06 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1233
Loc: Ohio, US
I don't think vanity by itself is the best motivator. If I trained for 6-8 hours per day to look like the first picture I still would not look like the first picture without plastic surgery (giving birth to large children by c-section ends any bikini days I may have had). If vanity were my only reason to exercise or make any attempt at eating somewhat healthy there would be no point since the desireable end result isn't possible. There has to be more on your mind than just the looks. Personally I find pictures of what I don't want to look like far more motivating.
_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


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#1904499 - 05/28/12 04:20 PM Re: OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics [Re: piano joy]
Eglantine Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Another Country
:-) You are so right LBE. I was going to say myself, even training 6-10 hours a day most people would not look like the first pic. It's Just Not Realistic.

And it's dumb for people to hold up these *exceptions* (in every way) as somehow examples to follow. They are not. And such exceptions, used as examples of 'good', are bad news from many perspectives (in health education terms).
_________________________
Currently working on: F. Couperin - Preludes & Sweelinck - Fantasia Chromatica
J.S. Bach, Einaudi, Purcell, Froberger, Croft, Blow, Frescobaldi, Glass, Couperin
1930s upright (piano) & single manual William Foster (harpsichord)


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