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#1903472 - 05/26/12 01:07 PM Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
His method of repairing loose tuning pins by inserting corrugated cardboard, to be precise.

Now, I'm thinking.....what really is a valid reason as to why it wouldn't work? I understand that the cardboard will eventually disintegrate, but it will take many, many movements of the pin before that would happen. In other words, years of tunings.

Second....let's say it does disintegrate. It's still leaving the fiber in the hole between it and the pin.

I know it seems like an unorthodox repair that a lot of us just summarily dismissed, but when really thinking about it, I'm not sure I can come up with a real reason why it wouldn't work.

Many repairs we take for granted today were unorthodox at one time (CA glue in piano repair, for instance).

So.....?
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1903478 - 05/26/12 01:16 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Why not just replace the tuning pin with a size or two larger and be done with it forever? smile
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1903496 - 05/26/12 02:13 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Personally I wasn't questioning whether it works but why not just use CA glue or like Jerry said just put in an oversized pin. I guess if neither of those is an option (I don't have any oversized pins or CA glue) then it seems like an okay option. It certainly won't hurt anything will it?
_________________________
Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#1903498 - 05/26/12 02:15 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
Roy Rodgers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 347
Loc: Ranger, Texas
Max (and many others) may not have ready access to various size tuning pins along with many other parts. So if using this method helps the piano stay in tune longer without a lot of expense, then I say great.

Not everyone has the advantage we do in the U.S. on being able to get parts.

Shoot, one time I tried those split metal shims to tighten tuning pins. Got a lot left too cause I didn't like the way they worked.
_________________________
Tuning and repairing pianos since 1981 in Ranger, Tx. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Roys-Piano-Service/173273022711505

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#1903506 - 05/26/12 02:43 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Jerry and others, yes, other methods do work. But that's not in itself a reason to use a different method that might also work.

Oversize pins can cause more problems if the block is already weak or cracking.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1903508 - 05/26/12 02:49 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: That Guy]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7457
Loc: France

Nope! as soon there are 2or 3carboard shims, the
pano will desintegrates.

Originally Posted By: That Guy
Personally I wasn't questioning whether it works but why not just use CA glue or like Jerry said just put in an oversized pin. I guess if neither of those is an option (I don't have any oversized pins or CA glue) then it seems like an okay option. It certainly won't hurt anything will it?
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1903511 - 05/26/12 02:51 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

I wonder if there ever will be a time when people are mindful of where this fellow lives and how people live there. It is not with the availability of riches we witness in the west by a long shot.

Max makes do with the tools, supplies, and the experience that he has. If I lived in that poverty stricken life I would probably be doing the same…………. Actually there is no probably about it.
_________________________
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"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1903519 - 05/26/12 03:12 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Olek]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Kamin

Nope! as soon there are 2or 3carboard shims, the
pano will desintegrates.

Originally Posted By: That Guy
Personally I wasn't questioning whether it works but why not just use CA glue or like Jerry said just put in an oversized pin. I guess if neither of those is an option (I don't have any oversized pins or CA glue) then it seems like an okay option. It certainly won't hurt anything will it?


Not necessarily. If a few pins need tightened and this method works, how is that different from any other method that works?
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http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1903521 - 05/26/12 03:18 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
I'm just asking for a good reason NOT to use that method. I really can't think of one. Can anyone else?
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1903531 - 05/26/12 03:40 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Olek]
pianolive Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 327
Loc: Europe
Nope! as soon there are 2or 3carboard shims, the
pano will desintegrates.

Pure nonsens. The only thing that counts is the result.

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#1903539 - 05/26/12 03:59 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7457
Loc: France
I seem to remember it does not allow for a normal pin setting, or not for long.

And the piano disintegrates, may be after 3 or for of those cardboard are inserted. I heard of witnessing of some rare auto ignition occurrences, too.


Edited by Kamin (05/26/12 03:59 PM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1903571 - 05/26/12 05:13 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1955
Loc: Philadelphia area
I agree Loren, I don't think it matters what you use. I've repaired a few loose pins in an old Steinway "B" with used pieces of sandpaper.

We might have a 102 uses for the business card.

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#1903586 - 05/26/12 05:47 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Dave B]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Yep, Dave! How many times have I shimmed a front rail with one? smile
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DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1903669 - 05/26/12 09:58 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Quote:
Max makes do with the tools, supplies, and the experience that he has. If I lived in that poverty stricken life I would probably be doing the same…………. Actually there is no probably about it.


Agreed. That was my point that he makes do with what he has and we should all be mindful of that.
_________________________
Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#1903670 - 05/26/12 09:59 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
That Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Quote:
I'm just asking for a good reason NOT to use that method. I really can't think of one. Can anyone else?


Nope.
_________________________
Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com

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#1903712 - 05/27/12 12:15 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
Ed Foote Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1134
Loc: Tennessee
>>I'm just asking for a good reason NOT to use that method. I really can't think of one. Can anyone else?<<

Yes, I can think of several. A real strong reason is that the cardboard is less effective and durable than a variety of other materials that we tried.
An old traditional way is to plane a shaving of hardwood from a plank and insert that into the hole. Another is to use sandpaper, grit side away from the pin. A piece of brass, half the circumference of the hole was also superior to fiberboard or cardboard.
The value of the repair was determined after numerous pin movements. Everything was tight at first, but some of the materials loosened more quickly than others. The cardboard was the loosest of the bunch.
Regards,

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#1903715 - 05/27/12 12:25 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Ed Foote]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7457
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Ed Foote
>>I'm just asking for a good reason NOT to use that method. I really can't think of one. Can anyone else?<<

Yes, I can think of several. A real strong reason is that the cardboard is less effective and durable than a variety of other materials that we tried.
An old traditional way is to plane a shaving of hardwood from a plank and insert that into the hole. Another is to use sandpaper, grit side away from the pin. A piece of brass, half the circumference of the hole was also superior to fiberboard or cardboard.
The value of the repair was determined after numerous pin movements. Everything was tight at first, but some of the materials loosened more quickly than others. The cardboard was the loosest of the bunch.
Regards,


but once instructed our Russian friend stick and praise to his superior method!
Shaves or hard wood are so difficult to find!
so, to me, the heck with it until better. .

One need to know how to set the pins before ascertain that a process is efficient or no.

Which side of the hole the brass sheet ? I would put it on the opposite side of the "bed" of the pin, but I dont know.
The advantage is that it is not to be replaced when changing a string, hence its use on historical instruments and harpsichords.


Edited by Kamin (05/27/12 05:58 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1903791 - 05/27/12 06:52 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
Johnkie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 708
Loc: England
Cardboard is A way to do a temporary quick fix, as is sandpaper, super glue (so it appears ) and veneer, but I find doing things like this take a darn site longer than just replacing with a over size wrestpin. If the plank has split however, nothing will work. wink
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

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#1903827 - 05/27/12 09:31 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
The whole point of using a narrow shim of hardwood veneer rather than one covering the complete circumference of the pin was to place it on one side of the pin, not front or back, in case the block was split or about to split, there would be no added pressure from a shim that would force the split further apart. I have known repairs like this last for years.
Walnut was prefered because it was possible to cut thinner veneers out of it.

This was regarded as the safest repair in the days of solid pinblocks. Laminated pinblocks changed all this but always consider the age of the piano and the likelihood of it having a solid block in choosing a repair method.


Edited by rxd (05/27/12 09:53 AM)
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1903830 - 05/27/12 09:36 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Ed Foote]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1514
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Ed Foote
The cardboard was the loosest of the bunch.

When friction between pin and wood hole is no longer enough to provide the necessary tension of the strings on the classical technology seeks to restore pin's wood hole or hammers pin of larger diameter (oversize), or a conclusion about the impossibility of restoring the piano
Thus, the pin can be, with some approximation, of course, be regarded as a classic bolt. And that can happen with a threaded connection, if the bolt is screwed into the nut, which has much lower strength material? It's had bad connection and poor friction .
I don't beats new pins (larger diameter).I am force the turning (old) pin into the seat (wood hole) while gradually screwing it in.
The most productive and durable (oddly enough) was use corrugated cardboard, which provides the required quality and the restoration takes place fairly quickly, with virtually no material costs without the risk of "disorder" of neighboring pins, which inevitably arises in the classic to hammering on pin. Depending on the compound, this material allows for multiple settings for a long time operation of the piano.

Respected masters technicians of my compliments, thank you discussing this issue. A special thank you to the topic mentioned my name. I would like this discuss has been constructive. I have repeatedly said that this is my way. I assure you that the Russian people wrote words of gratitude for my method. I am very embarrassed, but I have a sense of ownership with the owners of the piano in Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Slovakia, Russia and others, who own their own pianos repaired independently. They twist themselves the T-bars. I agree with the forum participants that the procedure does not always save any piano, but we would try to make this.
What's new maxim_tuner's advice?
1 Do not remove a string from with pin, when we twist off it
2 Do not hammer pin
3 The effectiveness of this method is that the additional friction itself does not work. We destroyed shim a screwed pin into pinblock . A shim destroyed in the process of this screwing the particles of cellulose and warmed the glue. A cellulose's particles is filled of a crack in the pinblock.
4 I am against use any glue
5 I am against any metal shims inserts
6 My YourTube Channel for simple laymen who sees, think and decide.
To be or not to be?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGk3dS6dKow


Edited by Maximillyan (05/27/12 09:37 AM)
_________________________
A=440
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#1903839 - 05/27/12 09:55 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
mariotto Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/12
Posts: 56
Loc: EU
I use wrest plank plugs when there is a cracked pinblock. It is fairly good method. I do not belive that max idea is good enough...Metal bushing can also help, cardboard, do not think it is the good way...

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#1903859 - 05/27/12 10:58 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
It's a good, productive discussion, I think!
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1904195 - 05/28/12 12:19 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Roy Rodgers]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1514
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Roy Rodgers
So if using this method helps the piano stay in tune longer without a lot of expense, then I say great.

Of course it would be immodest on my part, but I must in topic publicate this . I'm repeat not trying to be a prophet, imposes its own ideas. I do it just to draw attention to the general problem of poor fixation pins off. It is a pity that most people wrote Russian about this problem , but there are in English too

kamil-koma
23 января, 2011 года, 14:17
Категорически не согласен в обвинениях в непрофессионализме. Главное чтобы колок держал, а он реально держит. Я отстроил свое старенькое пианино на котором обучались трое моих детей.
Только проложил один слой гофрокартона в виде трубочки, а затем ввинчивал колок, предварительно продув отверстие сжатым воздухом.
Кстати места трений струны смазал графитовой смазкой. Так делается при отстройке "машинок" на стратокастерах.
Еще раз большое спасибо за абсолютно не затратный способ быстрого восстановления инструмента.
Thank you! :-)
RonPaulSongs 1 год назад
По поводу "портянок" из наждачки, жести и некоего непонятного материала, пропитанного эпоксидкой (который иногда вываливается из-под вынимаемого вирбеля), могу сказать, что это вандализм и невежество, основанное на незнании матчасти.
NatalyShNA1 1 месяц назад
Установка полоски из наждачной бумаги под колок это действительно неправильный метод. Если учесть, тот факт, что колок потом ещё и забивается. Увы, полоска н/б своими абразивными зёрнами "убивает" и без того уже сработанное посадочное место под колком. Иногда, некоторые мастера ратуют за использование всевозможных эпоксидных смол. Я против этой методики, потому, что приходилось обслуживать такие пианино, колки не фиксировали нужного тона.
TheMaximillyan в ответ на NatalyShNA1 1 месяц назад
Неоднократно пользовалась методикой, предложенной Максимом. Это действительно работает. Максиму респект и спасибо за четкие пошаговые инструкции! В качестве материала уплотнителя также сначала использовала гофрокартон, затем нашла более убедительный материал - картон, из которого обычно изготавливают коробки для чая в пакетиках smile
NatalyShNA1 1 месяц назад
Благодарю за ценный совет, Максим! Обязательно воспользуюсь. По поводу радикального забивания колков всё-таки имею возражение. В таком капризном элементе, как вирбельбанк, любой удар молотком деструктивно сказывается на соседних посадочных гнездах (особенно в "усталых" инструментах) и, как следствие, увеличивает время настройки. Молоток уместен, но в гомеопатических дозах. Остальное - вкручиванием. Приятных вам инструментов!
NatalyShNA1 в ответ на Maxim Gorkiy (Показать комментарий) 1 нед. назад

Perhaps a video showing us how to do it the "right" way would be of interest to all those doing it "wrong"?
I tune my piano myself, and have many people say I am doing it "wrong" yet, it serves me quite well. I have not mastered the art of setting all the pins yet, some hold better than others. My piano isn't a very good one as in, it's not expensive, though I do enjoy the technical aspect of the instrument just as much as playing it.
I found this video very inspirational (inspirational.)
DumpYourTelevision в ответ на buttercupaz1 (Показать комментарий) 6 мес. Назад

SEI UN GRANDE TECNICO COMPLIMENTI.!!!
CONTINUA COSI'
caimano655 7 мес. назад

Grazie per apprezzare il mio lavoro! Cordiali saluti, sintonizzatore maxim_tuner
TheMaximillyan в ответ на caimano655 (Показать комментарий) 7 мес. назад

grisha8488
настройка пианино
Максим здравствуйте !!!! Хочу выразить огромную благодарность за ваши ролики и советы, я очень рад что есть такие люди как вы, я по вашему методу реставрировал пианино Красный Октябрь старое начала 60 годом пианино моей мамы ... последнее время считалось безнадежным так как строй совершенно не держало большенство колков не держали вообще , при настройке на глазах вращался назад в месте с ключем...если можно то как с вами связаться не в ютубе, и поговорить а по возможности созвониться или как то через интернет созвониться скайп или подобно. я сам из города Челябинск буду очень ждать от вас ответ !
с уважением Григорий


Smok


Ответ от: 28.01.2011 16:31:11

Совершенно случайно натолкнулся на эту статью, заинтересовало- прочел до конца. Я конечно не специалист в области настройки и ремонта музыкальных инструментов, но зато неплохо разбираюсь в резьбовых соединениях, и если механизм используемый в колках сделан по этому принципу, то метод предложеный автором Maximillyan должен работаь. Как говорят, "все гениальное-просто". А что касается неприятия большинством, так опять-же "Есть два мнения- мое и неправильное". Понятно, с одной стороны мастера всю жизнь занимающиеся этим исскуством (иначе назвать язык не поворачивается), с другой какой-то чудак с картонкой. Со своей позиции могу сказать одно, в ремонте механизмов приходится иногда и не такие "чудеса" применять. Если принцип работает, и с его помощью удается оживить даже безнадежные инструменты,то хочется пожелать автору успехов в его нужном деле. С уважением.
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1904200 - 05/28/12 12:33 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Quote:
..repairing loose tuning pins by inserting corrugated cardboard..


How about starting with a review of terminology???
For those who have never held a cardboard box, corrugated cardboard looks like this:



...try shoving some of that down a tuning pin hole thumb laugh
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Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

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#1904214 - 05/28/12 12:56 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Supply]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1514
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Supply
[quote]corrugated cardboard looks like this:

Thank you,Supply . A Savior of verticals our is corrugated cardboard ! It's it on picture
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A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#1904740 - 05/28/12 11:45 PM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1514
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Loren D
His method of repairing loose tuning pins by inserting corrugated cardboard, to be precise.

Now, I'm thinking.....what really is a valid reason as to why it wouldn't work? I understand that the cardboard will eventually disintegrate, but it will take many, many movements of the pin before that would happen. In other words, years of tunings.

Second....let's say it does disintegrate. It's still leaving the fiber in the hole between it and the pin.

I know it seems like an unorthodox repair that a lot of us just summarily dismissed, but when really thinking about it, I'm not sure I can come up with a real reason why it wouldn't work.

Many repairs we take for granted today were unorthodox at one time (CA glue in piano repair, for instance).

So.....?


The of the method is exceptions to classic rule. You are right,Loren D that the cardboard is already in the process of screwing partially destroyed. When a pin screwed into place, it is not a strip thickness of 3mm. Are where disintegrate fragments of cellulose? It's disintegrate the strip basis of cardboard off and filled the cracks of bush-pinblock. Usually a pin hammered, I screwed it.
How it do:
1 A shim is not displaced in the process of screwing.
2 A pin acts as an iron (утюг) and dryer together. The fact is, there is something similar like the glue and pasting on a circle of cellulose on bush and pinblock's hole a new wood's layer . And at the same time polished it's. In fact, we just been repaired the pindlock's hole. End result is a relatively "new hole", a little reduced in diameter.
3 "The new friction" provide two materials - "eaten strip of cardboard" and disintegrated pulp
4 A follow the tuning after a year, for example, does not affect the technical characteristics of the "cured pin." There is one "but". After the initial installation shim it very tightly regulate tuning hammer.
5 The "old pin" is not suffering, is not subject to any deformation and remains in the same technical characteristics as it was originally.
6 Any other shim is expensive, in contrast to the corrugated cardboard
7 Any man watching my film can do it. One woman from Ukraine forced to watch a movie of her husband. He looked it and how she writes, " and he made pins!"
I have a big request to the masters- technicians of is not to condemn my method, if themself do not made this experiment. Sincerely,maxim_tuner
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#1904810 - 05/29/12 02:57 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
mariotto Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/12
Posts: 56
Loc: EU
Max are you avare of the tension tuning pins have to hold? Do you realy think a cardboard can be a valid fix for a loose pin? I understand your lack of resources, I come from a country that was a communist one and can understand the conditions in which you work. But, maybe you should slow down a little bit and listen to the advices of a more experienced and trained techs. I do so even today although I have more than 10 years of experience...

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#1904821 - 05/29/12 03:35 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: mariotto]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1514
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Mariotto
Max are you avare of the tension tuning pins have to hold? Do you realy think a cardboard can be a valid fix for a loose pin? I do so even today although I have more than 10 years of experience...

Dear MariottoYou have understood that I am very limited in resources and use what I have in my practice. I am always looking for professional advice on our forum. However, the "cardboard and pin" is topic, which I successfully made in my district many years in past and I does it now . I tested a lot of other stuff and materials. The truth is that shim works. I hope that you will soon discover it for themselves. It is waiting for your experiment with cardboard. But communistic past is my past. Then I very good lived and I sincerely believed in humanistic ideal of the communism
Can You do short clip about this procedure?


Edited by Maximillyan (05/29/12 03:49 AM)
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#1904823 - 05/29/12 03:42 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Loren D]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7457
Loc: France
The idea is to understand what the pin have to do in the hole, then the resources to correct a too loose pin are limited (thicker one pin, new wood, brass foil)

The elasticity of the cellulose may tighten the hole but it may not allow to lock the pin for long. Old blocks anyway are loosing their resiliency in the zone around the pin, the resiliency "migrates deeper in the block and the area around the pin is not resilient.
That, plus the wear is what makes even thicker pins not so efficient at some point, or not for long. Then indeed an experienced tuner will be able to tighten a tuning pin even in an old ovalised block
(I suggest that the pin when torqued, deforms, at some point, and then it will take an adapted shape that allow to some better grip)

The point is to know how to manipulate the tuning lever when the pin holding is basically poor, and obtain a bit of pin torque despite that. It can be surprizing .


Edited by Kamin (05/29/12 03:43 AM)
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#1904827 - 05/29/12 03:58 AM Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix [Re: Olek]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1514
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Kamin
The idea is to understand what the pin have to do in the hole, then the resources to correct a too loose pin are limited (thicker one pin, new wood, brass foil)

The elasticity of the cellulose may tighten the hole but it may not allow to lock the pin for long. Old blocks anyway are loosing their resiliency in the zone around the pin, the resiliency "migrates deeper in the block and the area around the pin is not resilient.
That, plus the wear is what makes even thicker pins not so efficient at some point, or not for long. Then indeed an experienced tuner will be able to tighten a tuning pin even in an old ovalised block
(I suggest that the pin when torqued, deforms, at some point, and then it will take an adapted shape that allow to some better grip)

The point is to know how to manipulate the tuning lever when the pin holding is basically poor, and obtain a bit of pin torque despite that. It can be surprizing .

Kamin,I agree with your every word here
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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