Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix

If properly understood, did Kamin tested the method of Maxim? For me, I say this quite frankly, my Great respect for You . Thank for your positive review.

Max, have you even tried to find CA glue in Kazakhstan?

Wholesome grains in it is, but we do not know how much resin take in every hole. It's need finely smudge here. If only there to immerse the probe camera. And then do an analysis of destruction pinblock

Unfortunately, I ordered one of his last winter my friend in Moscow. He said he did not find it's even in specialized glue's shop. This week a friend traveled to Samara and also could not buy.

And I say:"YES,Loren D!"
"Одно лечим, другое калечим!"

You are all turned upside down,Johnkie. Do you not know that the fast speed of an electric drill is more harmful phenomenon for the pinblock in moment screwing. Ancient people made this such a way to born fire . They fast rotated wood stick as fast as allowed their physiology. Yes, in my video I really do it quickly, because it is very limited in time. But I explain in Russian, that the whole process should go as slowly as possible, so as not burned pinblock. In my experience, this never happened . This is possible only in theory. Do it's the slower and then the problem does not exist. Re setting the pin (and then slowly screwing in) - "Hammering in pins is by far the best practice of stringing .... it's quick ... and more to the point "score is total world practice? Whom it has been proved as the best. You can show technical calculation of different brands of pianos, which is the denial of screwing. You wrote that it is quick! Bravo! Russian proverb: "Fast, only cats are born" (быстро, только кошки родятся) Fast is not always reliable and good quality. I declare that any process, even with a hammering pin must be explained in terms of physics, if it is only right. If we hammered (with shim or oversize pin), then the following happens:
1 Power load from hitting on walls of pinblock acts more destructive than screwing. Existing cracks in the walls will inevitably increase. Because we act blindly.
2 When hammering, since pin made from steel, it will choose their location so as to penetrate into the soft and cracked wood fiber. Therefore, in practice new re placing hammering pin are not parallel to each other.
3 As a result of hammering on the pins re placed capable to completely destroy one of the sector of pinblock.
4 Do not go into details, I wrote earlier that the suffering neighbor pins, which still worked before.
The fact that the "Max is heck bent" is your right to say so, if you you consider possible for yourself lexicon talk the opponent about.
I have the honor, maxim_tuner

Max :

You exhibit a desire to have not the slightest intention of listening to advice, and I'm not inclined to waste any further time on your posts. Why bother using this forum if you have no interest in learning from the wealth of experience on offer.

He is highly unnerving !!
most blocks dont hold because the wood is crushed and the resiliency have migrated from around the pin to farther regions, cracks happens but this is not the main problem .

Hammering a pin while the rest of the block is loaded with all those metal pins cannot do harm unless the block is cracked and there the solution is new wood, not shims.

BUT you need to have the correct tools to drive the pin straight.

When mounting new pins I even use a pneumatic "palm nailer" to drive pins, it provides a good fit, and ask me no effort.

We all meet pianos where some strings have been changed by making the coils on the inserted pins (by a tech that never learned to make the coil externally or who is lazy) .
The grip lower a lot because of heat, but also because it is the same as sanding the inside of the hole.

Those pins are the first to be defective when the piano is aging.

If one want to turn the pin he have to wait 5 minutes after every 2 turns so the pin get cold enough... it is really more than time consuming ...

Why would you put this replic for me is not clear? You repeat with marked regularity well-known all a things. I think to it's known for piano's technicians. One of thing you are right, it's about the inevitability of time to stretch it's for high-quality operation screwing a pin. This industrial-technological requirement for this method.
"He's very nervous" (Не дождётесь)

I'm sure driving pins in also generates heat, so it's not like saying one way creates heat while the other doesn't. Yes, there differences in the coefficients of sliding friction vs. rolling friction (that's as far as I'll go, as it's been years since my high school physics class!), but there is friction in either case.

Believe me it is not very great desire to answer your mistakes here. However, you do forces it and I must need to answer

I agree with you,Loren D. The coefficient of friction is directly related to the density or partial it's absence between pins and wood. Perhaps if we hammering the coefficient less. But I do not think that difference is great.
In the case with corrugated cardboard shim is promotes like hot flatiron(iron) as if we ironed rolling pin from inside wood hole . Since almost for all heat it is directed on thin layers of the surface hole bush and cellulose particles of

The friction type is sliding friction in both cases. I posit that the difference rather lies in the effective distance for which the metal is dragged across the wood. With driving, it's a distance of 1 1/2", at most 2". With turning, there are perhaps 10 turns, if not more, each of which covers a circumference of about 1", so the effective distance is 10", possibly more.

I'm not up on physics by a long shot, but now that I think of it, you're right. I was equating the turning of the pin in the block to a tire rolling on a road, but then it hit me that in the tire, there is also forward (or backward) motion.

You're right, in the case of the pin it's sliding friction both times since the pin is not also moving in the directional plane of the turning.

Already learned a lot from this thread!

No one has asked smooth surface cardboard vs. using a couple layers of the rippled interior alone and therefore maybe more original glue surface for better grip.

What if you combine the above with CA glue?

May I have permission to add these to the trial examples for Roy Rogers?

I misspoke, it is "Zap-A-Gap" (airplane modelers’ glue) I use. Important to mention its age is a concern. Discussed with other modelers. Always securely cap AND use the larger outer cap as well. Repairing even bare wood to wood a well capped older bottle bond is not always strong, especially on 1” scale dollhouse furniture legs, or chair arms. So please be suspect of a repair made with previously opened CA. I use and sell the ½ oz bottles for my small scale repairs.

Yes, I agree it has a glass-like surface. Successfully used that fact as a way to camouflage repair/refinishing of wood, resin and china. But would that glassy surface plus friction heat add to the deterioration of the bond? Maybe the fuzzier surface interior cardboard would compensate?

Drawn here to see if missing cardboard boat. I too believe only wood to wood and fabricate pieces myself. Other professional dollhouse builders use poster cardboard, or corrugated. I always called it “the weakest link”. But have used framing mat board as drywall to hide electrical wiring.

I also have experience behind my remarks. Reputed total perfectionist. Know which glues for what job, etc. Tools in my hands before my teens. BUT I AWAYS LEARN SOMETHING ON PIANO WORLD! That is why I joined this thread.

To all, sorry about previous long post, very depressed, decompressing. Wish made 2, piano damage and story behind it. Yes, should have gotten experienced tech but thought I was.

To Max, thank you for replying. At 20 you are far too young to feel your dreams have not been fulfilled. That is why at 57 ½ always eager to learn something new. Taking piano lessons, and hope to receive my tuner today. Thanks also for wishes I succeed at tuning, Will think of your encouragement often. Wish could give you a hug in person and a bottle of CA from my shop.

Dear molehill, thank you for your comments and suggestions on the topic of our discussion of the process of corrugated cardboard and glue different materials. Your doubts about the necessary rigidity between the pins and the glass side of wood after the use of CA is really correct. I see that CA is able to provide the necessary bond between the pins and CA will be able to provide reliable hard fixation treated wood glue. The temperature does not count here. However, I think that after treatment with wood and glue is a firm grip. In fact we glue a pin with the hole of block and bush. While using the cardboard in the repair we increase small layer from cellulose for treatment wood the ruined surface block. If after a period of time we will need to turn the pin when the string is upset, goes down, I'm afraid that the peg will slide in the hole. However, this is just my guess

molehill,you can't even imagine how I would be happy!

If I understand you correctly molehill, you propose to paste shim corrugated board in the hole. Preliminary to inflict CA on it and only then tighten the pin. It should be very reliable and tough. Sorry, I do not have this capability. Dear technicians, if possible, try the do it's test. To publish the results here

I'm still not convinced about CA glue, even though it's widely accepted now.

Here's why: We all agree on the incredibly high capillary action of the stuff. I speculate that because of this, most of it wicks into the first porous material it finds, and in most modern pianos, that would be the pin bushing (I know not all makes have them, but I said "most.")

I think essentially what happens is that you glue the tuning pin to the bushing. I'd love to experiment on an old clunker with it once or twice.

Another thing I worry about would be liability. Those fumes are pretty nasty. If someone would wind up with an asthma attack, or be overcome by the fumes, that would not be good. Something to consider since this work is usually done in the customer's home. Remember the smell of Schaff's Garfield center pin solution? I wouldn't even use that in the customer's home, because of how bad it smelled.