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#1903718 - 05/27/12 12:36 AM Nord Piano Software Bug
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
I made a short video to demonstrate. Watch me stomp on the damper pedal and the Nord makes a sound without me touching the keyboard.



This has happened to me several times now in the last 3 weeks. I'm using Grand Lady D in this instance.

This is annoying if it happens live. So far it hasn't happened yet outside of practice. I've unplugged the pedal and replugged and it doesn't change anything.

Nothing unusual in my keyboard settings so I included that in the video. This extraneous sound seems 'reverby'. I can't reproduce at will. I just occasionally see this.

Sometimes, I also get a sound (again like reverb) when I lift my fingers OFF a key. It seems to be either pedal related or let off related.

Anybody else notice anything like this? I've been getting it for the last 3 weeks. But not before. No software updates done recently. In fact, no change at all.

EDIT -- changing the Patch sound restores it back to normal.


Edited by jazzwee (05/27/12 12:45 AM)
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Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
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#1903747 - 05/27/12 03:02 AM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1675
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Nord Piano 2

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#1903749 - 05/27/12 03:30 AM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8393
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Very strange. Does this only happen with the Grand Lady D?
Perhaps try removing that particular sound, then re-uploading?

I have not had any contact with Pablo, but by all accounts he's an absolute superstar among US Nord owners. If re-uploading the sound does not fix the issue, I'd definite follow Dave's suggestion and drop him a line.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1903883 - 05/27/12 11:42 AM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
James, unfortunately, I cannot reproduce this at will. A couple of times I remember leaving the piano on and it sounded like this. So did my kids hit some combination of buttons that caused it? I don't really know.

So I often play Grand Lady D and so it has ended up with this occurring on that patch.

I am concerned since it has happened 4 times already (a few days apart).
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

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#1903936 - 05/27/12 01:44 PM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
bbent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 95
Loc: CA, USA
jazzwee,

I believe the sound you hear is perfectly normal. You can hear something similar on just about any acoustic piano and on some DPs. For example, our Steinway Grand and FP-7F both produce a similar sound (amount of sound is adjustable on the FP-7F). If you're interested, I can try to record it and give you a link.

Here is my theory on how the sound is produced (on an AP): When the damper pedal is up, the dampers press against the strings and actually displace the strings downward slightly. If the damper pedal is depressed rapidly, the dampers pull away from the depressed strings, which then are launched into vibration, producing the characteristic sound of all of the damped strings being excited simultaneously. How much sound is produced is strongly influenced by how rapidly the dampler pedal is pressed down - if pressed down slowly, the strings stay in contact with the damper so they are unable to vibrate freely.

I hope this clears things up for you. It should be a happy ending, because what you thought was a problem is actually an indication of how faithful the Nord is in reproducing one of the AP's nuances. I doubt that you will hear the same effect on anything but an AP type patch.
_________________________
Regards,
Bob

NY Steinway A 1907, FP-7F wi RPU-3
HW: GA-X58A-UD3R, i7-930, 6GB & 2ea WD2002FAEX, 1ea WD1001FALS1TB, UA1000, Yamaha 2.1 HSM80M/HS10W, DPA SMK4061, Mackie LM3204
SW: Win7 Pro x64, Sonar PE 8.5.3, NI Komplete 8 Ult, Ivory Grand Pianos II

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#1904009 - 05/27/12 04:47 PM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Bob, i don't think so. This is VERY loud as you heard. It sounds the same regardless of how hard I hit the pedals. And it resets to normal when I change patch. I did not increase the volume to demonstrate this. This is not a possible behavior on an acoustic.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

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#1904023 - 05/27/12 05:14 PM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
bbent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 95
Loc: CA, USA
jazzwee,

You said, "changing the Patch sound restores it back to normal." Could you please clarify? Does it make this noise on any patch other than the Grand Lady D patch? Does the Grand Lady D patch sound OK under some conditions?
_________________________
Regards,
Bob

NY Steinway A 1907, FP-7F wi RPU-3
HW: GA-X58A-UD3R, i7-930, 6GB & 2ea WD2002FAEX, 1ea WD1001FALS1TB, UA1000, Yamaha 2.1 HSM80M/HS10W, DPA SMK4061, Mackie LM3204
SW: Win7 Pro x64, Sonar PE 8.5.3, NI Komplete 8 Ult, Ivory Grand Pianos II

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#1904061 - 05/27/12 06:57 PM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Gosh! Sounds like your NP wants to be an accordion!!!

I would try reloading the OS. If that doesn't clear it, it's a defect.

Good luck!

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#1904072 - 05/27/12 07:05 PM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: bbent]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: bbent
jazzwee,

You said, "changing the Patch sound restores it back to normal." Could you please clarify? Does it make this noise on any patch other than the Grand Lady D patch? Does the Grand Lady D patch sound OK under some conditions?


The extraneous sound is not something consistent. Comes and goes. Like I said, it's a software bug. Changing to a different piano sound restores it back to normal.

I've only heard it on Grand Lady D but that doesn't mean anything since I'm on this patch most of the time.

I'll have to keep using some other patch to see if it occurs again.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

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#1904167 - 05/27/12 11:00 PM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: bbent]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: bbent
jazzwee,

I believe the sound you hear is perfectly normal. You can hear something similar on just about any acoustic piano and on some DPs. For example, our Steinway Grand and FP-7F both produce a similar sound (amount of sound is adjustable on the FP-7F). If you're interested, I can try to record it and give you a link.

Here is my theory on how the sound is produced (on an AP): When the damper pedal is up, the dampers press against the strings and actually displace the strings downward slightly. If the damper pedal is depressed rapidly, the dampers pull away from the depressed strings, which then are launched into vibration, producing the characteristic sound of all of the damped strings being excited simultaneously. How much sound is produced is strongly influenced by how rapidly the dampler pedal is pressed down - if pressed down slowly, the strings stay in contact with the damper so they are unable to vibrate freely.

I hope this clears things up for you. It should be a happy ending, because what you thought was a problem is actually an indication of how faithful the Nord is in reproducing one of the AP's nuances. I doubt that you will hear the same effect on anything but an AP type patch.


Got in touch with Pablo (thanks Dave) on this issue and he definitely does not agree with bbent that this is connected.

The damper sound is present normally (when this problem is absent) and it sounds like normal damper noise (and string resonance), not a whinny sound that sounds like I'm playing violin. Damper noise is also very soft.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

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#1904178 - 05/27/12 11:36 PM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1420
Mine never did that. That s very strange indeed. Dave is right, Pablo is great, and was extremely helpful when I had an issue with my Tripe Pedal last year. Let e know if Nord fixes this.
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1904198 - 05/28/12 12:26 AM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Will do. May take a while to debug this, however.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

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#1905024 - 05/29/12 12:22 PM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Followup on this.

First of all the seriousness of the attention given to me by Pablo and now even Stockholm has been amazing. thumb

The problem as I have documented it is not known here in the US. Apparently though, the bug that I've shown has occurred on the Nord Stage 2 and seems to happen (per Stockholm) when the board is left powered on for long periods (days).

My understanding is that this was previously fixed in the NS2 OS and they're intending to put this fix also on the NP88 OS.

So again to confirm, the problem has occurred for me when I left the power on the board overnight. This was true in all the cases when it happened. Apparently, I left it on at least once a week lately. This however clears up the possibility that this might occur on a gig and my concern has dropped significantly.

Nord is on the ball!
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

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#1905081 - 05/29/12 02:40 PM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2918
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Nord is on the ball!

That's great!

I wonder if they could lend one of their on-the-ball team members to Studiologic for a year or two. wink

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#1905187 - 05/29/12 05:51 PM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8393
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Nord is on the ball!


That's great!

It's interesting that this bug only manifests itself when the instrument is left on for long periods of time. I wonder why that is?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1905196 - 05/29/12 05:58 PM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
As a software guy, I'm going to guess that there's some loop with some incrementing value (perhaps that checks status) that perhaps exceeds allocated memory and causes memory corruption (like buffer overflow stuff).

I knew it couldn't be hardware though since it always works normally on reset.

It's nice to be reporting positive resolution though! I was told it was unusual for Clavia to commit to fixing something (in advance) but I hear this will be fixed on the NP88 OS.

Either way, a board is always going to be freshly rebooted on a gig anyway. This would be more of an issue with a board used in a studio.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

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#1905295 - 05/29/12 10:34 PM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1420
Glad to hear jazzwee! Add Nord's top ntch customer service as another reason to buy one. laugh Pablo is a good dude, very helpful, and prompt in his service.
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1905329 - 05/30/12 12:01 AM Re: Nord Piano Software Bug [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Yeah--just to make it clear--Pablo was helping me THROUGH the holiday weekend. That's dedication man. We were emailing each other at wee hours of the morning after his gig.

And to make it clear that he wasn't just giving the run around he had already contacted Stockholm.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

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