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I have a number of beginner and not-so beginner students who have got into the habit of sitting with stool very close to the piano, so the elbows are bent at 90 degrees - movement is very limited. When I move them back, they complain, 'it feels too far away'.

I'm trying to work out why. It's happened enough to be a pattern. There must be something I'm missing.

Any ideas?

My piano teacher has a theory on this - we've talked about it several times -- mostly while she was pulling the bench away from the piano

She feels it is because piano is one of the few, (maybe the only?) instrument you don't "hold", there is a desire to be close to it - to feel you have to be near it to play.

It is, in her experience, a common phenomenon.

I think that also, with beginners, most of our pieces are so focused around middle C we don't have any need to "stretch" or extend our arms - and it so it feels cozy and comfortable.

I know that when I started I kept the bench really close to the piano, and she would always try to pull me away...it was only after about 18 months that I even started to inch back a bit. Now I'm positioning myself where she wanted me to be in the first place. Once I started trying to play pieces that covered 3 or more octaves it just seemed logical to move back so I'd be able to have a better "view" of the whole keyboard.

I simply say that sitting too close is one of the most common bad habits and pianist can get. I demonstrate how and why it is necessary to set farther back. I show each students where I think the best place to sit is. Then I make them do it.

Those students who sit too close to the piano haven’t yet learnt to use their body weight whilst they play. Ideally 50% of our weight should be on our feet and the other 50% should be on the chair. In this way we can have balanced and controlled back, arms, elbows and wrists, in order to achieve the best technique.

They also have not yet learned to use the sustain pedal properly. Sitting too close does not allow the feet to work the pedals efficiently.

There are all sorts of factors involved in simply sitting at the piano correctly, with no pain and no cramping.

It's our job as teachers to properly position our students, just as violin teachers must teach students how to properly address and hold their instruments. This is non-negotiable. There is only one correct way, and you need to become an authority figure and tell that to students. Position your students properly and tell them this is where they need to be, whether in the studio, at home practicing or playing on another piano.

Part of the problem is that the majority of piano studios do not have adjustable benches, so right off the bat, you're not getting students to the correct height. Very few, only the youngest, have any need for a pedal board. And even without one, these tiny students can learn how to lean back on the front edge of the bench and let the bench provide support for their body weight, and they can have one foot ready for the damper pedal.

What I find is that as students grow older, they've become accustomed to sitting in one place, but their bodies have grown, so periodically, they need to be readjusted - back and down!

Emphasis is mine. Beginners also want to move their butts left and right everytime the music demands that the hands move from the center. Nope. You sit in the middle. Period.

I give just a little "wiggle room" for height. I suggest a postion that puts the elbows very close to level with the keyboard, but we have both seen very fine pianists who sit a bit higher or lower than that. It takes careful observation to judge whether or not a bit of variance in height will work, or if it is causing tension. Hunching or raising the shoulder (opposite problems) are good clues that the student is not sitting at his/her optimum height.



I use a stool much like what we practiced on at college. My students love it because it gives THEM control. By quickly rotating it up or down, it takes seconds to find the perfect height. For the very VERY small ones, before they use the sustain pedal, I set them closer but have them sit much farther back. I always let them choose: "kid position" or "professional position".

Then I teach the sustain pedal VERY early along with chromatic major triads. Even the ones who are not yet ready to sit in the forward position for the whole lesson sit "on the edge" when they pedal. They get tired and so move back. When they move back, I pull the stool forward. Within about six months they use the sustain pedal somewhere in almost everything I teach, so at that point they move forward, I pull the stool back, then they adopt that more advanced position.

After that they simply grow into the instrument. This has never been a problem for me.

If you have a non-adjustable bench, the problem is sometimes fixable with pillows. I was so small, I always sat on pillows or something like that to get my butt higher. Then I sat right at the edge of the bench. I was half standing, but my weight was perfectly balanced. I had full control of all the pedals and could reach to either side.

There is only one time I find a bench to be a problem, one that is not adjustable. There are people with long torsos and short upper arms. The way the elbow aligns with the hip determines stool/bench height. I have taught a couple basketball players who had to spin the stool right up to the top. The idea that some tiny to sits LOWER than them surprises them. And I have one very tall girl whose arms are so long that we had to position her back so far that it looks like she needs to call a cab to get to the keyboard. But for her this distance is necessary. If she sits any closer, she "jams" her arms and does not have full range.

Always back, but for the students who have basketball bodies, long arms but average torsos, I'm not sure what the net change is in sitting height. In some cases the position of elbow to hip may not make a net change (I don't really know), so when I have a student who is 6' 4" but who has to sit with the seat WAY up, I suspect that this was always so.

The important point is to remember to adjust the bench or stool to the student, not the other way around. Making everyone sit at the same height is LETHAL, and sitting too close also lowers the elbows. To teach properly you HAVE to have something that is adjustable. Nothing else works.

I remember my first lesson, my piano teacher forced me to sit correctly even before I started to play for him. I then learned how my body really did effect my piano playing and how much it really mattered. I think being near to the piano makes people feel that they would be able to see clearer and such.

I didn't know this was a common issue, but evidently it is -- and I think that's a great try at the explanation.

It could be vision problems. It could be back problems. It took me a few weeks to be able to sit correctly for more than ten minutes at a time. Probably as a result of slumping in my office chair while surfing the web. Or lounging on the couch while watching TV. Since taking piano lessons the TV doesn't get watched much so that eliminated one bad influence. But I still tend to put up my feet while surfing the web.

Correct posture was the first lesson my teacher taught. That and keeping my rear end planted in the middle of the bench. That was not a problem since she uses a narrow chair for lessons. There's no place to slide to.

I think that two things will remedy this.

Have them use the entire keyboard. Almost impossible to play the high and low notes with a body stiff in position too close to the keys. Have the students play arpeggios.

and

Have them learn very soon how to play the pedals. It is hard to keep the heel on the floor if the bench is too close.

YES!!! For five years, I had to battle two parents who refused to buy their sons eyeglasses for piano. They put them in this "hard corrective contacts" regimen, so that by the evening time (when the lessons were) their kids were virtually blind.

Many thanks for the replies. What I've learned so far:

1. This is a common problem, it's not just me.
2. They sit too close because they like to hug middle C, when they aren't playing a wide range of keys they don't see this as restrictive, and they are not yet using arm weight. They are not yet using the pedal.

I see the arm weight as being crucial here, because if you are not using arm weight, but literally holding your arms out with muscle, then it does matter a great deal if the hands extend by a few inches. Possibly the way to get arm weight happening is precisely to tackle the stool position and relaxation at the same time.

3. There may be vision problems (worth tackling).

I don't especially like to teach pedal early. Many of my students are simply too small for it, and I really like to get accuracy and legato well established before giving them a chance to muddy things with pedal.

Elza - the arm weight is important, but I'm not at all convinced about having 50% of body weight on legs, and I will start a new thread on this, so as not to get off topic here.

Yes.

I have a student whose glasses broke. For some crazy reason it took the stupid company TWO months to give him new glasses. The whole time he sat, cramped in, because he is near-sighte. The moment he got the new glasses, the problem was solved instantly.

I always do an informal eye test. I put my music in place, then have students stand way back to read any words on the page. I make note of exactly how close they have to get before they can read their best.

Add eye exams to the REST of our informal duties.