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#1907043 - 06/02/12 11:40 AM Prevent ADHD with Piano
kspriggs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 26
Let's face it- parents fear their kid turning into an ADHD zombie! They don't want their son or daughter addiced to drugs like ritalin and adderall. So, why not market piano lessons as an ADHD prevention measure.

Some slogans include

Less ritalin, more chopin. I know that it doesn't exactly rhyme, but a lot of people don't know how to pronounce chopin.

Stop Medicating, Start practicing!- maybe have a picture of an adhd zombie kid under stop medicating, and a focused child under the start practicing.

Maybe a pic of a piano with the words "ADHD prevention machine" under it?

Seriously, I had a girl who almost made me believe in ADHD this semester. She had all the classic signs- fidgety, would want to do something else, moving around a lot, etc. Then, when she started to learn to play you could just see the ADHD melt away!

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#1907075 - 06/02/12 12:18 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4812
Loc: South Florida
There is no way I am answering. You post every few days and NEVER reply to anything that anyone says to you.
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Piano Teacher

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#1907084 - 06/02/12 12:27 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Gary D.]
kspriggs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 26
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
There is no way I am answering. You post every few days and NEVER reply to anything that anyone says to you.


You just did answer! Why do I need to answer something, when I don't have any further questions?

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#1907100 - 06/02/12 12:40 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Ben Crosland Offline
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Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 420
Loc: Worcester, UK
To be honest, I can think of other demographics to which I would rather target my advertising wink
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#1907101 - 06/02/12 12:40 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
chrisbell Offline
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Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1368
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: kspriggs
Let's face it- parents fear their kid turning into an ADHD zombie! They don't want their son or daughter addiced to drugs like ritalin and adderall.


Ritalin and Adderall are not addictive.
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#1907105 - 06/02/12 12:43 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
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kspriggs, in forum netiquette, it is desirable to acknowledge people's answers when they take the time to try to help, and possibly add your own thoughts or new questions to it. They are discussion forums for discussions. People are interested in your responses and want to know that they have been heard. When someone starts several threads and never responds back, it creates bad feelings. This is what is going on.

In regards to your observation --- you are describing fidgety behaviour which can be for any number of reasons such as boredom or a need to move physically. Unfortunately ADHD has become a popular catch-all phrase used to describe everything. Real ADHD is a symptom of a number of things which can be physical, part of the nervous system etc., and can't be cured that way. But piano might be a cure for the fidgety behaviour caused by boredom, a child's need to move, and any number of things. A child might have been misdiagnosed because dosing him/her with Ritalin is the easiest "cure".

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#1907128 - 06/02/12 01:18 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
How about teaching kids respect, honesty and giving them a little discipline now and then while we're at it? Saying NO and sticking to it, really Issss okay......
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1907132 - 06/02/12 01:23 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4812
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
How about teaching kids respect, honesty and giving them a little discipline now and then while we're at it? Saying NO and sticking to it, really Issss okay......

thumb
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Piano Teacher

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#1907182 - 06/02/12 02:40 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Miss Karen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Kent, WA (Covington)
In out of the respect for my son who has ADHD and myself ADD, music does not necessary fix it. The key is focus and keeping focus to the task at hand. Positive reinforcement and medication do help but does not go away. I am not medication but I have learned to deal with it all my life.

It is a disorder, not a disease. Most important, the doctor attending with my son, still is monitoring his ADHD even though he is not on medication now.

I have worked with students who have symptoms of ADHD and they are great. Each student has different learning styles and so music does provide one way to organize their thoughts and processes. I would not say music lessons would be a preventive measure for ADHD.
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Redwood Piano Studio
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#1907224 - 06/02/12 03:56 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Miss Karen]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5512
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: Miss Karen
I would not say music lessons would be a preventive measure for ADHD.

My thoughts exactly!
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Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1907256 - 06/02/12 05:02 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Miss Karen]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4812
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Miss Karen

I have worked with students who have symptoms of ADHD and they are great. Each student has different learning styles and so music does provide one way to organize their thoughts and processes. I would not say music lessons would be a preventive measure for ADHD.

thumb
Many times I find that kids who are labeled ADD or ADHD have incredibly fast minds. So even though they have "problems" that are real, it is impossible to know for sure how many of these "problems" are caused by working with so called "normal" people, whose normality is often a pitifully average, non-intuitive, cookbook mentality totally encouraged by our ROTTEN school system.

The only "fix" in music is that those of us who do not learn the "way we are supposed to" have a chance of being treated as individuals by really smart teachers who are not locked into a "one way fits all" approach.
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Piano Teacher

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#1907257 - 06/02/12 05:02 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: keystring]
kspriggs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 26
[quote=keystring]kspriggs, in forum netiquette, it is desirable to acknowledge people's answers when they take the time to try to help, and possibly add your own thoughts or new questions to it. They are discussion forums for discussions. People are interested in your responses and want to know that they have been heard. When someone starts several threads and never responds back, it creates bad feelings. This is what is going on.

That sounds like massive insecurity rather than netiquette. Why does somebody always need to have their opinion validated with more discussion?

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#1907260 - 06/02/12 05:04 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4812
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: kspriggs
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
There is no way I am answering. You post every few days and NEVER reply to anything that anyone says to you.


You just did answer! Why do I need to answer something, when I don't have any further questions?

Not answering implies that no one has mentioned anything valuable enough to simply say, "Thank you for that idea."

I suspect you will not understand the idea of minimal politeness.
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Piano Teacher

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#1907280 - 06/02/12 05:56 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11730
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: kspriggs

That sounds like massive insecurity rather than netiquette. Why does somebody always need to have their opinion validated with more discussion?

I did not write "need" - I said "desirable" and "interested in your response. A synonym might be manners.

I responded to your thoughts on ADHD. What is your reaction?

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#1907283 - 06/02/12 06:08 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5512
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: kspriggs
That sounds like massive insecurity rather than netiquette. Why does somebody always need to have their opinion validated with more discussion?

Massive insecurity??? How did you arrive at that conclusion? I don't follow your logic.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1907410 - 06/03/12 12:03 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: AZNpiano]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4812
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: kspriggs
That sounds like massive insecurity rather than netiquette. Why does somebody always need to have their opinion validated with more discussion?

Massive insecurity??? How did you arrive at that conclusion? I don't follow your logic.

He arrived that because rude people either don't know they are rude or don't care.
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Piano Teacher

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#1907905 - 06/03/12 11:12 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1233
Loc: Ohio, US
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
How about teaching kids respect, honesty and giving them a little discipline now and then while we're at it? Saying NO and sticking to it, really Issss okay......
We should be doing these things whether our kids have ADHD or not.
_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


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#1907906 - 06/03/12 11:19 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: chrisbell]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1233
Loc: Ohio, US
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: kspriggs
Let's face it- parents fear their kid turning into an ADHD zombie! They don't want their son or daughter addiced to drugs like ritalin and adderall.


Ritalin and Adderall are not addictive.
And they don't cause kids to act like zombies, either.
_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


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#1908909 - 06/05/12 04:14 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
prenex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 189
Loc: Minnesota
Are you qualified to make that diagnosis Spriggs? Your prescribed "treatment" and reducing it to a slogan is an insult to anyone who has to directly or indirectly deal with this problem.

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#1908914 - 06/05/12 04:19 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11730
Loc: Canada
I don't think that the OP knows what ADHD is, as a starter.

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#1909002 - 06/05/12 07:27 PM Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: keystring]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: keystring
I don't think that the OP knows what ADHD is, as a starter.

It is a sad case! Often individuals who suffer from advanced P.A.D.S. do not recognize the ailment in themselves, and will often be confused about afflictions in others. Doctor LoPresti's work continues . . .
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#1909013 - 06/05/12 07:51 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
BinghamtonPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 91
Loc: New York
Whether a student has ADHD or not, each one needs to be treated and taught as an individual. "One size fits all" lessons are simply not effective. Every person learns in a different way, so it becomes our responsibility to teach in a way that the student understands.
Several studies suggest that classical music therapy can be a beneficial part of behavioral modification for children diagnosed with ADHD/ADD, but behavior could just as easily be modified by not feeding kids a steady diet of Froot Loops, McDonald's hamburgers and soda too. But I digress...
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#1909038 - 06/05/12 08:33 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Quote:
We should be doing these things whether our kids have ADHD or not.


You're exactly right. It would eliminate a lot of problems, a lot of excuses and gain everyone some respect.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1909109 - 06/05/12 11:18 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4812
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
Quote:
We should be doing these things whether our kids have ADHD or not.


You're exactly right. It would eliminate a lot of problems, a lot of excuses and gain everyone some respect.

There are two completely different issues here.

One is politeness.

The other is a learning disability.

I have a student who very obviously is ADHD. It is true that the way he is wired makes it hard for him not to blurt out things, and you can see it physically. He can't hold still unless he is playing, but then he is sometimes rather awesome. He does have trouble not speaking out, which can lead to rudeness (which I will not put up with) but also leads to very positive, enjoyable conversations.

And he is VERY smart, with a good sense of humor.
Here is how I do think "piano prevents ADHD". Of course it doesn't prevent anything, but with highly intelligent kids who think very fast and are extremely goal-oriented, the potential often exists to work like demons for a surprisingly long period when they are engaged, interested, hooked on the fascination of what they are doing.

So we need to separate legitimate problems from parentally induces ones - rudeness, laziness and an endless stream of excuses. smile
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Piano Teacher

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#1909243 - 06/06/12 08:21 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
My kids pediatrician told us once, many years ago when people first started looking for excuses of why their kids did not mind them and why they could not pay attention.

First off, he said that in many cases, it is not that they "can't pay attention, is that the parents are not making them pay attention."

He said, that if many parents would start with teaching their children that no, means NO... Period. NO! Stick with it. That, just because YOU want it, does mean, that you can have it! That, it is NOT a ME ME ME world. There are other people around you that are just as important as you are... That if you expect respect, you give respect. You do not simply demand it giving nothing in return... That, if these parents with bratty kids, that blame everything else BUT the fact that their kids are just plain brats, (and it is the parents fault that they are brats) would do these things, which are things parents are supposed to do, that we would mysteriously discover that many things that are blamed on ADD for example, could be changed. They would be gone!

He said that many parents want a reason for the misbehavior rather than disciplining the kids for being brats or for being wrong. "Well, he did it because..." NO, he did it because he's a spoiled rotten brat and it's your fault! That's where I'm coming from. I firmly believe that many problems are simply not dealt with in the proper manner. Many parents no longer believe in spankings. Many do not believe in discipline at all. Some toss their kids into dryers or lock them in closets rather than just spank them.

When I am servicing pianos in homes, I see kids literally hitting their parents. They parents are doing NOTHING to stop it. Literally, nothing! I've seen 4 year old slugging their mother in the stomach because they want attention, and they want it NOW!!!!!!! Their mother is giving that attention to me or I am trying to explain something to the mother about their piano. These kids are constantly interrupting and the parent is allowing it. In this process of talking to me and getting slugged, they are completely ignoring the fact that their kid is slugging them! One mother said, "well, little Johnny has ADD." I thought, OH BULL!!! Little Johnny needs a good old fashioned swat on the behind! It's a blame game. In this world, it seems to always be someone elses' fault.

Now, we may very well have ADHD and all of that other stuff out there however, that was not my doctor's point, nor is it mine. He believed and so do I, that, that much of this can be eliminated by love, discipline, which is a form of love, staying home with the kids instead of wanting all of the toys, and giving more love. Spending time with kids is everything.

Many parents refuse to stay home or don't want to stay home and raise their own kids. That will not help matters any. I've heard the excuses "but, we can't make a decent living unless both of us work." Well, then give something up. We had kids, they need parents to raise them not a baby sitter to raise them.

My wife stayed home with our kids while I worked my tail off to make a living for our family. We gave up a LOT so she could do that.

At one point, the school system wanted to put both of our kids on Redalin (don't know the spelling,) because they thought they had ADD. We REFUSED. The kids hated school, is what it amounted too. But, we stuck to our guns, kept helping them with their home work, explaining it, showing them how to do it, yet, letting them do it, but refused to give them medicine. They are both grown now, productive kids of 25 and 22 with full time jobs who respect others, work hard for a living and understand the value of giving and receiving. They do not have ADD. They never had it. They can both concentrate on anything that they want to concentrate on and do.

Far to much is blamed on something else.

_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1909290 - 06/06/12 10:28 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11730
Loc: Canada
Jerry, when I taught I had a grade 2 student who would suddenly blurt out "How do you spell 'world'?" in the middle of my teaching math., or found himself painting a tree on a little girl's dress because it was white and reminded him of fresh paper. He was miserable about not being able to concentrate long enough to learn anything well. He was a polite, serious child with involved mature parents - he could not control the impulses and wanted to. He was diagnosed with ADHD and put on Ritalin. It enabled him to keep the focus he so desperately fought to have, and HE told me how relieved he was. This boy did not "need a swat on the behind" - he was struggling with something he could not control.

This is a real thing. The problem is that the term and the treatment are misused. Anyone who is fidgety or bored or poorly raised is "diagnosed" as ADHD and put on drugs. This is nothing more than professional incompetence.

There are things I learned later which might have avoided the Ritalin. For example, with true ADHD the person is easily distracted because the senses are stimulated by everything. We're told as teachers to make things stimulating, to some part influenced by the Sesame Street experiment which was designed for kids in particular environments. Maybe the dull slow kid in a dull environment will benefit from bright colors, rapid action, perky voices - it can drive the bright, sensitive kid or one who wants to dwell on things to distraction (literally). I learned about special classrooms where everything is toned down: no bright pictures, plain clothing worn by the teacher, essentially the "dull" environmnent you might have seen in the 1800's. Kids with ADHD put into such environments tended to do well. A "good swat on the behind" does not help someone who is struggling to concentrate.

Actually I did have a student who got lots of swats on the behind - and the face - and who knows where. He was tiny for his age, known as a troublemaker. The boy in question was a superb artist at his young age, imaginative, and loved writing stories in his free time at the activity table. I stressed his special gifts and obvious intellect, he was given paints for Christmas, and the kids in the classroom started to notice him. He stopped being a troublemaker, and started drawing pictures.

I will also suggest that paying attention to your child, rather than only doing so when he misbehaves, alleviates a lot of problems.

The point is that problems like ADHD are real, but people use an amateurish interpretation for anything that is "active" - and it is possible that this attitude happens right in the school system as well. Yes, misbehavior and brattiness exists and probably way too much, and kids are "diagnosed" and put on drugs inappropriately, but that does not mean that this condition does not exist. The thing for any problem is to find the CAUSE. You can't solve something unless you know why it is happening.

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#1909451 - 06/06/12 02:09 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4812
Loc: South Florida
Oh man, I don't have time to comment much.

Jerry, I think you are right. I agree with you SO much.

But Keystring, I also think YOU are right. I totally agree with you, for different reasons.

My feelings about "spanking": for the most part, I think it is just a way to teach people that we, the adults, are stronger than the kids, and that we, the adults, can do what we want.

But I also remember getting a really hard swat on the butt a couple times. Once we were in my grandmother's back yard, close to a canal. My mother said, "Gary, come here," and for whatever reason I decided not to. I was about five, maybe six. She closed the distance between us in zero time, and BAM, swat on the butt. And I never forgot what she said:

"WHEN I CALL YOU, DON'T YOU DARE RUN AWAY. YOU COME!"

And I honestly remember what I thought. "Oops, I'm not gonna do THAT again." smile

Now, having said that, my parents almost always reasoned with me, and my thoughts and feelings were respected. I was not abused. They set limits and enforced those limits.

Where I agree with Jerry: I have students who "can't behave" because they have condition X, Y or Z. Funny, they behave just fine when they are alone with me. I have one boy who has "ADD", and I see NO signs of this. My joke now is that ADD = Always Distracted and Disoriented. Sometimes I think that ADD = Y chromosome!

But I have an ADHD student, on meds, who gets no extra passes from his parents. His parents are involved, they do set limits, they back me up, and they do everything they can. This boy is one I really REALLY like, and my opinion is that he is incredibly intelligent. I can see him struggle with his own impulses, and I see more control developing as he gets older. He is also a LOT like me, only I was much quieter.

HARD subject, Jerry and Keystring!
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Piano Teacher

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#1909456 - 06/06/12 02:18 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
In many cases, things are diagnosed incorrectly, of course. A "spanking" is not a cure all but, some sort of discipline is always called for. We all have rules and regulations to abide by. As kids, as well as now, as adults.

That's the line I draw. Watching kids in the store playing with toys that have not been bought. Bouncing basket balls on the floor and trying to shoot hoops in the store is totally unacceptable. Playing football in the isles or tossing balls back and forth is not acceptable either. Yet, parents allow these things to take place on a regular basis. These kids need discipline or, correction.

Not everything is a spanking... Don't get me wrong... That's why I included love. That includes spending time with the kids. Playing with them. Taking them to the park, walking with them, playing ball etc...

I've sat in class rooms where teachers wind up spending much of their time in a disrupted class room trying to keep things in order instead of teaching when kids that are "naughty" and not corrected at home, are around. It's the parents fault. Maybe the parents should be spanked... smile They need a lesson in raising kids. It's not easy.

Children's diets also play into it according to our kids doctor. Eating 15 Twinkies a day, chocolate, potato chips and more, instead of healthy foods. Coming home to a TV dinner because both parents work and they are just to tired to properly prepare food for their child let alone for themselves.

There is a HUGE LINE between spanking and smacking in the face and elsewhere. Spanking, if a child continuously misbehaves, I am all for. Anything other than than? NOT!!!! And, there is a line with that too. I think, rather than go into what should be obvious, as a line for most people, I'll just say, that there is a line to be drawn on if a kid is spanked how hard, and how many, one will get. And, NEVER EVER spank out of anger! Walk away, calm down and then figure out what the problem is or was and then address it. We may find that the whole problem was a lack of attention from the get go.

Many kids, I know, I was one of them, were not given enough attention growing up. I was rarely hugged. Rarely told "I love you." Rarely played with. I was on my own. While my mother was home all the time, she didn't like kids... She should NOT have been a mother but, that's a different story.

I did learn however, because of my own negative upbringing, what NOT to do with my kids and how to make them successful and how to break a "chain of abuse that I received as a child both mentally and physically."

LOVE and affection, along with lots and lots of hugs are extremely important!!!!! Even though my kids are 22 and 25, I always tell them how important they are to me, hug them when I see them and even give them a kiss. They are given lots of love! smile

You reminded me of something Keys... smile I remember one time, when one of my sons was being naughty all the time. We tried several things but, nothing worked until my mother in law said, "I know the problem." WHAT? "You are not spending enough time with him." That was our first son and he was about 2 years old. From that point on, I spent a LOT of time with him. We both did. Immediately, I saw a difference. He made a complete turn around and behaved.

So, in many cases, the child is simply looking for attention, or approval. Whether that be negative attention, it is still attention as far as the child is concerned. We need to make a positive outlook for all of our kids.

We spanked our youngest son when he rode is bike out into the road in the middle of the day Gary. He almost got ran over! He never forgot that one either. smile

_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1909625 - 06/06/12 06:55 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Gary D.]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1233
Loc: Ohio, US
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
Quote:
We should be doing these things whether our kids have ADHD or not.


You're exactly right. It would eliminate a lot of problems, a lot of excuses and gain everyone some respect.

There are two completely different issues here.

One is politeness.

The other is a learning disability.

Unfortuneately the two can often overlap each other. I work in special education and have ADD myself so I'm seeing both aspects of it on a daily basis. I'm running into parents who don't discipline their children with learning or physical disabilities out of laziness or possibly a feeling of guilt. Understanding that a child is going to have difficulty doing something and allowing for it is one thing, not making it clear to the child that they are expected to do their best and then just letting them be in control is not acceptable.

As for the OP's idea, I'm reasonably sure that simply getting formal lessons will not cure my ADD and that if my parents had sent me for lessons as a child that would not have prevented it either. If only it were that simple...
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#1909635 - 06/06/12 07:11 PM Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
LoPresti Offline
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How is it that many of the very best discussions are found on (almost) Page 2 or Page 3 of the most inane threads? There must be some chemestry where a topic that starts out stupid stimulates our best thinking.

Jerry, I especially love the fact that you have handled constructive discipline, AND made a general condemnation of our popular way of life! These sentiments should be shouted from the rooftops, and pasted on billboards ((do they still have real, roadside billboards?)); instead of buried here on "almost" Page 2. The habits of behavior you cite are a shame, and the fact that we are doing little-to-nothing to reverse the trend is, in and of itself, its own shame.

Ed
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#1909672 - 06/06/12 08:44 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
keystring Online   content
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Are you guys talking about ADHD or bratty behaviour?

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#1909692 - 06/06/12 09:28 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Gary D.]
kspriggs Offline
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I have been a part of many discussion forums. A few weeks ago I started a thread and was attacked because I didn't post again with two days. I don't think I am the one who is engaging in rude behavior.

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#1909696 - 06/06/12 09:36 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: keystring]
kspriggs Offline
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Originally Posted By: keystring
I don't think that the OP knows what ADHD is, as a starter.


No one really knows what ADHD is or even if it really exists. Before you label me a crackpot, please consider the following facts.

1. Ritalin and Adderal have been banned in several countries including South Korea, Japan, and Canada. Doctors in other countries have refused to ban it but have made it a very rare prescription.

2. Physically there is very little evidence for the existence of ADHD. Some claim that the dopamine levels in the body are evidence of ADHD (kids with it usually have much lower levels). The problem is that dopamine is highly influenced by diet as well as genetics. The other line of evidence focuses on brainscans. Supposedly, kids with ADHD have very different looking brains than a "normal" person. However, very few children are ever diagnosed on the basis of a brainscan and the scan can really mean different things.

3. A study by the University of Australia found very high correlations between fast food diets and ADHD. When confronted with this, some doctors started suggesting that ADHD causes people to eat fast food (because it couldn't possibly be the other way around!).

4. Many of the original researchers of ADHD believed that it would only be a fraction of percentage of the population.

In other words......the definition of ADHD and the existence of ADHD are up for debate. No one doubts that there are kids (and adults) who behave this way but we aren't sure that they are behaving this way because of ADHD.

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#1909700 - 06/06/12 09:41 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: AZNpiano]
kspriggs Offline
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Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: Miss Karen
I would not say music lessons would be a preventive measure for ADHD.

My thoughts exactly!


Should we so sure?

In the last twenty years, ADHD diagnoses have skyrocketed. During that same period of time, use of video games and cell phones by kids has also dramatically increased. Isn't it possible that our attention spans are being worn down by this technology? Most kids on a cell phone go from one thing to another in rapid succession. One minute they are texting a friend, then they are surfing the web, then they are making a call, then they are playing a game. In some cases, they are doing several of these things at once.

And we wonder why so many of them can't concentrate on a simple task?

With piano, you must also concentrate on many things. However, these is a key difference (no pun intended). The things you learn in a piano piece all come together to make a whole. A student might learn the right hand, then the left, then both together, and then focus on rhythm, pedaling, dynamics etc. Eventually, the mind fuses all of these disparate elements together.

So, if behavior can destroy attention spans, couldn't it also enhance it?

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#1909702 - 06/06/12 09:44 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Little_Blue_Engine]
kspriggs Offline
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Originally Posted By: Little_Blue_Engine
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: kspriggs
Let's face it- parents fear their kid turning into an ADHD zombie! They don't want their son or daughter addiced to drugs like ritalin and adderall.


Ritalin and Adderall are not addictive.
And they don't cause kids to act like zombies, either.


No, sometimes it just kills them.

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#1909705 - 06/06/12 09:57 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
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In my last one Keys, I was talking about bratty behavior and a lack of discipline. I do believe though, as did our pediatrician, that for starters, discipline is mandatory and on top of that, I also believe as does he, that, in and of itself in some cases, will eliminate the need for medicine.

Add to that, TWO parents instead of one. Slam me for saying that if you want but, I am a strong advocate of 2 parents, not one with 12 babies living off from the system.

I've been married 33 years to my first and only wife. 1 is enough!!! LOL! KIDDING HON! Good thing she doesn't read here. Gary you don't tell on me either! smile

Music is good for kids. It enhances their ability to learn. Studies have been done, I can't tell you where to find them but, I know that Yamaha did one many years ago and kids that had music, not just piano lessons but music, somewhere, did better in math than kids that had none at all.

I deleted that paragraph Keys... Thanks for making me aware of it.

Keys knows what I meant but, some others might not..... Hard to write exactly what is being thought on paper and even harder to write it so that everyone knows what you mean. smile




Edited by Jerry Groot RPT (06/06/12 11:01 PM)
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#1909706 - 06/06/12 09:58 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
currawong Offline
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Originally Posted By: kspriggs
A study by the University of Australia found very high correlations between fast food diets and ADHD.
Just curious as to which university this was. As far as I'm aware there's no "University of Australia".
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#1909713 - 06/06/12 10:20 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
keystring Online   content
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Originally Posted By: kspriggs
I have been a part of many discussion forums. A few weeks ago I started a thread and was attacked because I didn't post again with two days. I don't think I am the one who is engaging in rude behavior.

When I referred to bratty behaviour, I was asking which type of student problem was being discussed, not whether any poster here was being bratty. Ed was quoting Jerry, and was talking about popular ways of life, shouting things from rooftops - it sounded like bratty behaviour rather than ADHD was being discussed, so I asked which topic was being meant.

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#1909717 - 06/06/12 10:33 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
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Originally Posted By: kspriggs
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: Miss Karen
I would not say music lessons would be a preventive measure for ADHD.

My thoughts exactly!


Should we so sure?

In the last twenty years, ADHD diagnoses have skyrocketed. During that same period of time, use of video games and cell phones by kids has also dramatically increased. Isn't it possible that our attention spans are being worn down by this technology? Most kids on a cell phone go from one thing to another in rapid succession. One minute they are texting a friend, then they are surfing the web, then they are making a call, then they are playing a game. In some cases, they are doing several of these things at once.

And we wonder why so many of them can't concentrate on a simple task?

With piano, you must also concentrate on many things. However, these is a key difference (no pun intended). The things you learn in a piano piece all come together to make a whole. A student might learn the right hand, then the left, then both together, and then focus on rhythm, pedaling, dynamics etc. Eventually, the mind fuses all of these disparate elements together.

So, if behavior can destroy attention spans, couldn't it also enhance it?
I believe all the cell phones, texting and video games are causing children who do not have ADHD to behave as if they do. That doesn't change the fact that it exists, it just makes it harder for the average person to tell who does and does not genuinely have it and easier for people to assume its the problem and not look any deeper. I never went through the huge battery of tests some people do for an ADD diagnosis, but my brother did. He was diagnosed with ADHD with some other learning disorders as a child. Our family did not eat much fast food (couldn't afford to)our access to junk food was limited and the diagnosis came well before we aquired our first Atari 2600 so the video games didn't cause it. Back then you also didn't have every family physician labelling the child and writing out the prescription for Ritalin just because someone was at their wits end. My parents had to take my brother to the Cleveland Clinic for the initial evaluation and then yearly to keep his prescriptions current.

Learned behaviors like music lessons and structured activities can enhance attention span in someone with ADHD not because it gets rid of or prevents ADHD but because it helps to teach coping strategies that can be used by the person to help organize themselves and focus their attention where they want and need it to be instead of on whatever stray stimuli show up in the environment.
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#1909722 - 06/06/12 10:46 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
keystring Online   content
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I don't want to divert from the topic, but I am sure that there are more than a few single parents reading these threads. There is nothing inherent in raising children alone that makes a person into a poor parent, nor are all couples good parents. If there is a good partnership of course it's a lot easier.

Addendum: Jerry thanks - you're the greatest. smile


Edited by keystring (06/06/12 11:22 PM)

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#1909723 - 06/06/12 10:47 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
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Originally Posted By: kspriggs
Originally Posted By: Little_Blue_Engine
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: kspriggs
Let's face it- parents fear their kid turning into an ADHD zombie! They don't want their son or daughter addiced to drugs like ritalin and adderall.


Ritalin and Adderall are not addictive.
And they don't cause kids to act like zombies, either.


No, sometimes it just kills them.
Which is exactly why we should not be prescribing them every time little Johnny won't sit still and listen. There are risks associated with every medication and if more consistant discipline or a more structured environment or daily routine is likely to yield good results medication should not be used first. Too many are taking it as the easy way out and its being given to kids who don't even have ADHD to begin with.
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#1909895 - 06/07/12 09:15 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: currawong]
kspriggs Offline
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Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: kspriggs
A study by the University of Australia found very high correlations between fast food diets and ADHD.
Just curious as to which university this was. As far as I'm aware there's no "University of Australia".


I meant to say a university in Australia. Here are links to the studies-

http://www.playattention.com/category/adhd-food-additives/

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#1910702 - 06/08/12 07:10 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
currawong Offline
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Thanks. smile
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#1910925 - 06/09/12 08:44 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
AZNpiano Offline
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Originally Posted By: kspriggs
So, if behavior can destroy attention spans, couldn't it also enhance it?

You have to be super careful about using the word "prevent" in the United States, or you could be accused of false advertising.
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#1910943 - 06/09/12 09:19 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
keystring Online   content
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Kspriggs, I see you have done a fair bit of reading, and it's nice to see a real dialog going. smile Have you worked with people who have ADHD (as opposed to someone fidgety)? I'm wondering whether you got feedback from any of them? Like you suggest, I suspect that a lot of people being labeled with this disorder are actually just responding to the modern environment. That would leave a very few who actually do have the disorder and need to take special measures. At the same time, who knows if things might not be made worse even for these people through our environment?

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#1911173 - 06/09/12 07:15 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Rm403 Offline
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Some recent studies in the US have linking ADHD to sleep deprivation. Not surprised!

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#1911189 - 06/09/12 07:59 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Goof Offline
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Two points: first from study and general reading.
The regions of the brain which process language also process music - not really surprising considering that both are heard. Processing also involves responding to emmotions which are "available" through language and music therefore it would not be surprising that music will have an effect on behaviour.
The second is an observation from teaching for 15yrs at a senior boys boarding school: Every boy ate the same food but there was still about three percent of kids who were what one would call "different" in as much as their behaviour was not in all respects normal when seen against the general overall run of the mill.
There was no facility for psychlogical assesment of these boys. But food could not reasonably be held responsible for their differences.

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#1911226 - 06/09/12 10:06 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
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Ahhhh,never mind just another rant about a naughty child in the store. I deleted it instead.


Edited by Jerry Groot RPT (06/09/12 10:57 PM)
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#1911236 - 06/09/12 10:45 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
keystring Online   content
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Such knotty naughts are hard to weigh on any scale, Jerry. wink

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#1911237 - 06/09/12 10:56 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
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hahaha, you read it eh??? The little stinker! I so badly wanted to just say to the mother, you know??? It really IS okay to discipline your child you know??? wink
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www.grootpiano.com

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#1911462 - 06/10/12 01:45 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
hahaha, you read it eh??? The little stinker! I so badly wanted to just say to the mother, you know??? It really IS okay to discipline your child you know??? wink
I didn't get to read the earlier comment but the sentiment of this comment is one very dear to my heart right now. I just can't wait for the school year to end. smokin
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#1918768 - 06/26/12 05:05 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Theme&Variations Offline
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Wow, offensive.

And for the record, the social constructionist/medicalisation critique of diagnoses does not mean they 'don't exist'.
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#1919679 - 06/27/12 06:58 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Theme&Variations]
kspriggs Offline
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Originally Posted By: Theme&Variations
Wow, offensive.

And for the record, the social constructionist/medicalisation critique of diagnoses does not mean they 'don't exist'.


It doesn't mean that they exist either. The psychological/medical community has a burden of proof and it has failed.

By the way, you might want to learn how to spell big words before you start using them. It's medicalization with a z....

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#1919740 - 06/27/12 08:32 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
keystring Online   content
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What is true, and where I agree with you, is that a lot of people who are intelligent and energetic may be labeled with a condition that they do not have. If they are given an activity where they can use that intelligence and creativity, then their supposed hyperactivity disappears. They never had a "problem" in the first place.

Have you studied this area?

Quote:
By the way, you might want to learn how to spell big words before you start using them. It's medicalization with a z....

The writer shows a location of Melbourne, Australia. You are citing spelling conventions for American English. These conventions are not universal. It's the same reason why I receive cheques and you receive checks, and why I have neighbours and you have neighbors.

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#1919743 - 06/27/12 08:38 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Gatsbee13 Offline
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As a person with ADHD and who has read alot of the literature on it, im here to tell you that the disorder exists. ive seen it in a few celebrities and people ive come across. The national institute of mental health and many universities have numerous studies on the disorder. Im tired of people saying the disorder does not exist and it is an excuse for parents to use. I must admit that sometimes parents will collude with bad doctors to get a diagnosis to get their kids off the hook for something. But that shouldnt take away from its validity as a brain disorder.

As for preventing ADHD, i think you can alleviate some of the symptoms of ADHD with piano lessons. But it is my understanding that you do not develop it, it is inherited. All i know is that someone with ADHD will have to overcompensate in certain areas to be at a functional level.

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#1919764 - 06/27/12 09:09 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: keystring]
LoPresti Offline
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Originally Posted By: keystring
The writer shows a location of Melbourne, Australia. You are citing spelling conventions for American English. These conventions are not universal.

I am pretty sure that is the way they teach it at the University of Australia .
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#1919843 - 06/28/12 02:01 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Elissa Milne Offline
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kspriggs, wow. Just wow.

keystring has responded to this politely, so I don't need to add in my few cents worth, but seriously, you're having a go at someone's spelling when their spelling is faultless?

I'm currently involved in professional development/study on the cluster of giftedness, Asperger's Syndrome and ADHD. There has been very little research done on profound giftedness and sometimes highly gifted children are misdiagnosed as being ADHD, and children on the high functioning end of the autism spectrum can similarly be misdiagnosed. But misdiagnosis does not mean that the cluster of capacities and incapacities that makes up ADHD does not exist.

Further, for those who are trained in helping these children (and adults, although adults are less likely to be seeking ongoing support the way parents of children are/do) there are simple ways of determining the difference between a behavioural problem and issues to do with executive function, arousal, sequencing, central coherence and so forth.

I'm not in any way an expert in this field, but I've been astonished at the extraordinary difference occupational therapists can make working with children who struggle with executive funtion and central coherence and so on. I've observed about 15 hours so far with a specialist occupational therapist with a view to relating these techniques to my piano teaching practice - it has been an inspiration learning how to recognise markers of different processing problems and then techniques for helping children develop skills they lack in these regards.

Trying to deal with these issues as a behavioural issue results in no progress, and that's because the behavioural problems are the symptom of deeper problems which have nothing to do with discipline or parental failings.
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#1919855 - 06/28/12 03:10 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Elissa Milne]
AZNpiano Offline
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Originally Posted By: Elissa Milne
There has been very little research done on profound giftedness and sometimes highly gifted children are misdiagnosed as being ADHD, and children on the high functioning end of the autism spectrum can similarly be misdiagnosed.

That is interesting. Do you have more info on that? I've worked with a couple of high-functioning autistic kids before, but I guess they're just not hyperactive.
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#1919861 - 06/28/12 03:23 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Elissa Milne Offline
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http://www.amazon.com/Different-Minds-Children-Asperger-Syndrome/dp/1853029645/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340868048&sr=8-1&keywords=gifted+adhd+asperger%27s+syndrome

and

http://www.amazon.com/Misdiagnosis-Diagnoses-Gifted-Children-Adults/dp/0910707677/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1340868083&sr=8-2&keywords=gifted+adhd+asperger%27s+syndrome

are two books that have a wealth of insight....
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#1919862 - 06/28/12 03:23 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Elissa Milne Offline
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Hmmm, I might try that again with link links, not just threads - I'm busy for the next 90 minutes getting my 5 year old to bed!
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#1920304 - 06/28/12 10:13 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
currawong Offline
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Originally Posted By: kspriggs
By the way, you might want to learn how to spell big words before you start using them. It's medicalization with a z....
dear kspriggs,
Sorry I don't have time to chat right now but my programme is pretty full. I've realised I have to write a cheque to pay for new car tyres, and then I want to practise my favourite piece (even though I'm still in my pyjamas - and it's a bit draughty here on the verandah).
But I have no axe to grind, so just humour me please.
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#1920379 - 06/29/12 02:07 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: currawong]
Elissa Milne Offline
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Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: kspriggs
By the way, you might want to learn how to spell big words before you start using them. It's medicalization with a z....
dear kspriggs,
Sorry I don't have time to chat right now but my programme is pretty full. I've realised I have to write a cheque to pay for new car tyres, and then I want to practise my favourite piece (even though I'm still in my pyjamas - and it's a bit draughty here on the verandah).
But I have no axe to grind, so just humour me please.


:-)
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#1920401 - 06/29/12 03:17 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Gary D. Offline
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Originally Posted By: kspriggs
Originally Posted By: Theme&Variations
Wow, offensive.

And for the record, the social constructionist/medicalisation critique of diagnoses does not mean they 'don't exist'.


It doesn't mean that they exist either. The psychological/medical community has a burden of proof and it has failed.

By the way, you might want to learn how to spell big words before you start using them. It's medicalization with a z....

It is your way here:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/medicalize

Because it is an AMERICAN dictionary.

The ending "ize" is standard in American English. The ending "ise" is standard in most of the rest of the world.

Before you start criticizing the spelling of other people, try leaving your ignorant ethnocentric viewpoint at the door. laugh


Edited by Gary D. (06/29/12 03:32 AM)
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#1920406 - 06/29/12 03:42 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: currawong]
Gary D. Offline
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Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: kspriggs
By the way, you might want to learn how to spell big words before you start using them. It's medicalization with a z....
dear kspriggs,
Sorry I don't have time to chat right now but my programme is pretty full. I've realised I have to write a cheque to pay for new car tyres, and then I want to practise my favourite piece (even though I'm still in my pyjamas - and it's a bit draughty here on the verandah).
But I have no axe to grind, so just humour me please.

I realise that when someone has such poor judgement, we would be wise to ignore his criticising the rest of us, but such ignorance colours the perception of those in the US so that we all are perceived as Ugly Americans - which certainly does us no favours. laugh
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#1920432 - 06/29/12 05:56 AM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Gary D.]
currawong Offline
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Registered: 05/15/07
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Loc: Down Under
laugh
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#1920871 - 06/29/12 09:12 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
jdw Online   content
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Registered: 03/04/11
Posts: 1000
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Having raised an ADHD child, I can say, I sure wish it were true that piano lessons cured it! My daughter's life would be so much easier!

The connection of ADHD-type behaviors with food additives, particularly artificial dyes, is increasingly well established, though. In the UK the dyes have been largely eliminated because of publicity about the studies of this (I don't have references handy, but if you're curious you can find them at www.feingold.org). The striking thing about recent studies is that they were able to document ADHD symptoms in "normal" children with exposure to dyes.

But sadly, elimination of those additives does not cure all ADHD--any more than piano lessons or parental discipline do.

My daughter's is what used to be called "inattentive-type"--nothing to do with bad behavior, but everything to do with ability to focus. Some ADHD kids are able to hyper-focus on practicing, but this sure didn't work for her!
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#1922216 - 07/03/12 01:54 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: currawong]
kspriggs Offline
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Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 26
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: kspriggs
By the way, you might want to learn how to spell big words before you start using them. It's medicalization with a z....
dear kspriggs,
Sorry I don't have time to chat right now but my programme is pretty full. I've realised I have to write a cheque to pay for new car tyres, and then I want to practise my favourite piece (even though I'm still in my pyjamas - and it's a bit draughty here on the verandah).
But I have no axe to grind, so just humour me please.


This is the internet. It was developed largely by Americans. Australians are too busy watching Crocodile Dundee and passing gun bans that don't work. So, please do us all a favor and use American English. We are are the country that gave you Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Yahoo, and most other great internet site. Your country gave us Foster's beer.

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#1922218 - 07/03/12 01:56 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
AZNpiano Offline
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Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5512
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: kspriggs
This is the internet. It was developed largely by Americans. Australians are too busy watching Crocodile Dundee and passing gun bans that don't work. So, please do us all a favor and use American English. We are are the country that gave you Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Yahoo, and most other great internet site. Your country gave us Foster's beer.

grin This is a joke, right?
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#1922224 - 07/03/12 02:06 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: Elissa Milne]
kspriggs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 26
[wow. Just wow.

Wow is right. I think you have "Internet forum rudeness disorder." Sadly, there is more evidence for the one I just made up than for ADHD and Assburger's.

I'm currently involved in professional development/study on the cluster of giftedness, Asperger's Syndrome and ADHD. There has been very little research done on profound giftedness and sometimes highly gifted children are misdiagnosed as being ADHD, and children on the high functioning end of the autism spectrum can similarly be misdiagnosed. But misdiagnosis does not mean that the cluster of capacities and incapacities that makes up ADHD does not exist.

I'm sure that a lot of the sightings of UFOs are false as well. Does this mean that UFOs don't exist? No. Does it meant that they do exist? No, again. Misdiagnosis doesn't prove anything.



Further, for those who are trained in helping these children (and adults, although adults are less likely to be seeking ongoing support the way parents of children are/do) there are simple ways of determining the difference between a behavioural problem and issues to do with executive function, arousal, sequencing, central coherence and so forth.


Massive contradiction. You just said that they get misdiagnosed. Now, you are saying that they are easy to define. Which is it?



I'm not in any way an expert in this field, but I've been astonished at the extraordinary difference occupational therapists can make working with children who struggle with executive funtion and central coherence and so on. I've observed about 15 hours so far with a specialist occupational therapist with a view to relating these techniques to my piano teaching practice - it has been an inspiration learning how to recognise markers of different processing problems and then techniques for helping children develop skills they lack in these regards.


In other words, kids can, with proper adult guidance, learn to get better. This is what I've said all along. Putting your kid in front of a piano and forcing them to figure out a piece might (gasp!) improve a kid's attention span. Sure beats sticking them in front of a cell phone or a video game all day! Too bad piano teachers don't get to charge $150 or more an hour like therapists!



Trying to deal with these issues as a behavioural issue results in no progress, and that's because the behavioural problems are the symptom of deeper problems which have nothing to do with discipline or parental failings. [/quote]

This all depends on how you define "as a behavioral issue." If these therapists aren't prescribing drugs, then what are they doing?

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#1922317 - 07/03/12 05:51 PM Re: Prevent ADHD with Piano [Re: kspriggs]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
kspriggs, I've learned a lot from your posts.

Having said that, I don't think your understanding of my comments matches my understanding of my comments.

My mentioning "misdiagnosis" was not intended or suggested to be proof that a disorder exists (or doesn't), and I'm confused as to why you would think this was my intent. Obviously I've failed to express myself with sufficient clarity, and I'm not sure that I'll do much better if I give it another go.



Edited by Elissa Milne (07/03/12 06:01 PM)
Edit Reason: incomplete post
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