other than the clicks & pops i can find no fault with either recording, and believe that your choices (close mic for bach and a bit back for chopin) served each piece respectively well. and having to edit OUT some bass; my, what a luxury! your piano sounds excellent.

so will you tell us the name of the mystery mics?

Hi John,
Wonderful playing. Perhaps a bit too much room feel on the Chopin recording (I guess it's all a matter of taste), but it sounds great.

The placement for your Bach recording sounds about right to my mind's ear.

Glen

I agree about the Chopin being, perhaps, a bit "roomy", and the piano sounding a bit in-a-box on the distant miking.

OK... the mics, which I only purchased out of morbid curiousity (and I can return them) are Chinese Ribbons!!!! Apex 210, which you can get, I think, for around 230US a pair.

These are very fussy about placement (I suppose all ribbons are).

I think I can live with the Bach sound, and I'm not sure whether in this room, with this piano, my equipment, etc., I would do any better with expensive cardioid small diaphrams, like the AKG 451 series, or the KSM 141s (switchable between card and omni). I may still yet be in a position to rent some Schoeps, and if that happens a comparison would be interesting.

As it stands, I think this Ribbon mic captures the actual tone of the instrument more accurately, depending of course on placement.

JG

i close out with a "final production" (as if there is such a thing) of the schubert impromptu, as follows. AKG 420s in cardioid mode, audiobox 22VSL, studio one DAW, converting WAV to MP3 with Exact Audio Copy (YouTube codecs suck, what can i say), windoz7 movie maker, here ya go:

Edited by moderator... SPAM

John - I listened carefully with my studio monitors, and I agree with your conclusion. The Apex 210's sound as good as the AKG condensers - maybe even a little better - at least on my equipment.

I actually like the Chopin sound a lot, though there were some balance issues between the channels.

I think a little fiddling with that would give me the "classical" sound that I like.

Interesting about the Apex 210.

Good luck with it, and, BTW, I think you're playing of the Bach was darned good.

Finally had a chance to listen on my studio monitors to your Soundcloud clip.

Hurrah - you're there!

The recording sounds just fine;
the C7 sounds just fine;
and so does your playing.

Congratulations.

=====================================

PS - I have received a lot of benefit from the resurrection of this thread. I'm self producing/recording a CD of "Music from the Golden Age of the Piano" soon as there's time this spring. I think folks will enjoy the music as well as the sound of my 1929 Steinert (New York Steinway B close copy). I've changed microphone placement based on what I learned in several posts - I've got an idea of what sounds "right" to some very fussy PW ears - and I learned about some dirt cheap Chinese ribbon mics that sound fantastic on solo piano which might even fit into my budget.

Good Evening to All.

Good afternoon, friends. I frequently record grand piano, both solo and in ensemble. The tools and techniques that work for you will depend on your instrument, your space, your genre, your vision, your budget, etc. That said, let's get to the nitty-gritty...

This thread (Barber's Piano Concerto, Piano World Thread) has some videos recorded with two Shure KSM141s in omni:



And here's the same space, [different] piano, different performers, recorded with Rode NT5s (omni) on the piano and Gefell M270s in omni on the ensemble:

VERY nice recordings norsehorse!

NorseHorse - you are, of course, correct. Me, I'm usually good with the vision thing; it's the darn budget that does the squeeze

Your two included recordings sound... professional.
Did you use the same preamps?

FWIW, I was surprised to find I liked the sound with the single omni pair of Shure KSM141s over the one with the NT5 and the Gefell M270s for the orchestra. I'm listening with a decent pair of headphones, not over speakers, since I'm on the road this week - but I didn't find the Gefells to sound better on the ensemble. As for the NT-5s, I'm note a Rode fan. They made the piano sound "brittle" and a bit "dead" to me.

I'll keep you in mind for recording work when I have the budget to pay for you

Thanks for the responses!

A TL-Audio Tubetracker console was used for the Barber, and a Grace 801 was used for the Gershwin.

Recording-wise, the biggest difference in the recordings is how far the microphones are from the piano. In the Barber, they are in the third row of the house. For the Gershwin, they are close, which results in a brighter, more "modern" sound. Both practical and aesthetic concerns went into the decision for each.

[UPDATE] ** Just remembered these are probably not the same pianos. A rental was brought in for the Barber, presumably leaving the in-house piano backstage in its storage area for the soloist to warm-up and practice on.

NorseHorse is a recordist par excellence !

Welcome to PW Christian..

For those who might be interested, here is a link to a recording made in my piano studio with my current set up. The complete recording will become part of my first CD available for commercial release: "15 Pieces from the Golden Age of the Piano". Should have everything ready for "mastering" in about two weeks if things go as planned.

The Music Sample: from Harry Farjeon's Einen Schanengesang. http://andrewkraus.com/Smpls/Farjeon-EinenSchwanengesangPreview.mp3

Microphones: 2 CM 414 large diaphragm FET condenser microphones from Advanced Audio in Canada. The pattern was set on "Omni".

Placement: Just past the ends of the keyboards, on stands, with the base of the mics 60" above the floor

Signal Chain: simplicity itself, direct into a Tascam DR-100 flash recorder 24-bit, 96k sampling frequency.

Recording: no EQ, no reverb added. Ready for trimming and mastering.

Piano: 1929 Steinert 6'10" grand. This is a very close copy of a 1929 New York Steinway "B". It has been restrung but has the original sound board (which I think is one of the reasons it sounds as good as it does). I also had the action refurbished and replaced the original WNG parts with Renner whippens, shanks and flanges, new back checks, and Abel Natural Select hammers medium weight.

Studio: started life as a 1 car garage, became the sales office for our suburban subdivision and got a "cathedral" ceiling in the process. Tile floor. Room was very reverberant, so I've done some treatment with 2" thick fiber glass panels covered with acoustically transparent burlap as well as a 4" thick corner trap. To my ears, the room is dry enough to allow hearing details, wet enough not to be dead.