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#1907775 - 06/03/12 07:14 PM HANON exercises is a waste of time...?
Rodrigo V. Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/01/12
Posts: 8
Loc: Texas
I have been told by some pianists that Hanon's "The Virtuoso Pianist, In Sixty Exercises" is a waste of time....it's stupid and nonsense. One pianist even asked me, "Do you think Tchaikovsky or Mozart played these? Throw the book away."

On the other hand, a piano student studying for her phd in piano performance told me that she plays them every day and that she believes it helps her playing?

What is the general consensus on this? I believe if it works for you then by all means play it. However if that's the case then should all teachers teach all their students Hanon?

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#1907782 - 06/03/12 07:21 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
Para Otras Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 309
I believe that they can be helpful. However, there are many other ways to help yourself too! I personally do them once in a while. I think they can be helpful if you are advanced and are able to do different approaches with them: different keys, rhythms, touches, and much more.

I have only been posting here for a short time but I used to read very much here. You should do a search. This is a topic that comes up very much and has different opinions on this board. There is, of course, no one right answer.

You should wait until you have a teacher however. Finger exercises can be very dangerous if done incorrectly and can be useless if not done correctly.

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#1907784 - 06/03/12 07:24 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4648
Loc: South Florida
There is no consensus. Hanon is a tool. All tools can be used for the wrong job. Any tool may come in handy when no other tool works as well.
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Piano Teacher

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#1907819 - 06/03/12 08:26 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
exercizes 40 to 60 are nothing to sneeze at.. my word they teach everything.

i love Hanon.

I wish my 10 year old would move past exercise 3.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, ├Ľun (apple in Estonian)

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#1907855 - 06/03/12 09:33 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7200
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Rodrigo V.
.....On the other hand, a piano student studying for her phd in piano performance told me that she plays them every day and that she believes it helps her playing?

Better she learn the Brahms. However, I concur with Gary.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1907863 - 06/03/12 09:56 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5275
Loc: Orange County, CA
Some exercises are very helpful, actually. I haven't used them in a few years with my students, but I think I should start soon, because a few of them sure could use the exercises to gain more fluency.
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Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1907874 - 06/03/12 10:10 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4648
Loc: South Florida
My only objection is that they are so terribly repetitive. You learn one measure, and the rest not only make NO demands on reading but also can turn off the ear entirely.

Also, they are not very effective unless they are tranposed, because there is a particular feel to playing only white keys that can shut off the sense of how to mold the hands to all the shapes that use black keys.

Regardless, I would stay away from them for weak readers, because they already have the habit of memorizing everything. More rote drill is just asking for them to shut down the development of reading.
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Piano Teacher

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#1907943 - 06/04/12 01:49 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Gary D.]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5275
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Regardless, I would stay away from them for weak readers, because they already have the habit of memorizing everything. More rote drill is just asking for them to shut down the development of reading.

For the love of god...Hanon is the last thing weak readers should touch. It's more for those kids who have poor fine-motor skills and play uneven 16th notes.

I don't know about transposed Hanon, though. That will throw a lot of people.
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Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1907944 - 06/04/12 01:53 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
Minniemay Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1702
Loc: CA
I use Hanon for very specific purposes. Imo, it's useful for teaching certain physical gestures and, if you transpose it, for developing a feel of key. Any technique work should not be about reading, it should be about feel, look and listen.

It has nothing to do with reading, so keep it separate. I would use it with any student who had the technical need for it. Their reading skill doesn't matter at all. I teach it by rote anyway.
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#1907948 - 06/04/12 02:12 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3243
These exercises are extremely repetetive and therefore I think they do not motivate at all to play musically. IMHO it's much better to recognise and work directly on problems that you have with real music that you like to play.
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#1907959 - 06/04/12 03:01 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: wouter79]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4648
Loc: South Florida
So there you have it. smile

People hate Hanon and will not go near it.

People love Hanon.

People use Hanon for specific weaknesses.

That's why it is a TOOL!!!

Right tool for the right job, tool is useful.

Same tool for the wrong job, the tool is still useful but not used for the right thing. smile
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Piano Teacher

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#1907960 - 06/04/12 03:03 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
slipperykeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 340
Loc: Dorset, England
Rodrigo V,

How interesting that you specify the qualifications of a pianist who is in favour of Hanon
but not the one(s) who isn't/aren't. Who plays best? Your quotes of, "a waste of time,
stupid and nonsense", seem to be the opinions of people who are not particularly well aquainted
with the exercises.
How much did they play them before deciding these "facts"?

Perhaps Mozart or Tchaikowsky didn't play Hanon, they will have still practised some form
of improvement, I bet, but do your friends really consider themselves to have that level
of ability? This would seem to by more proof of error of judgement on behalf of your friends.

"It's more for those kids who have poor fine-motor skills and play uneven 16th notes."

Compared to Valentina Lisitsa or Andre Previn we are probably all, "kids with poor
fine-motor skills", the whole idea is to improve beyond your current level, whatever that
may be, and the only way to do it is practice, whether that be, increasingly difficult, faster,
smoother or whatever and through that, improve.

Repetative practice is the only way to do it. How do you learn any piece of music?

Of course, you read it, play it slowly and speed up as you remember it until you are content
(hopefully) with the performance. Same goes for fundamental improvement of ability.

Hanon is a corner-stone that will produce genuine results.

Try this, practice ONE Hanon study until you are good at it, could take a while. Then, when one
of your friends is around just play it, does your friend recognise it? I would bet not, is your
friend impressed with the speed, smoothness and dexterity, I bet he is.

Is your friend jealous? Of course!

"Throw the book away."

Personally I would keep the book and dump the "friend", but to each their own.

If you did take your friends advice though, don't worry, Hanon is now public domain for
anybody who makes a realistic assessment of their personal skills and finds themselves lacking.

http://www.free-scores.com/download-sheet-music.php?pdf=17471

Have fun, and if you can't just remember, it isn't Hanon's fault.

Ask the friend with real qualifications.

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#1907966 - 06/04/12 03:29 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: slipperykeys]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4648
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: slipperykeys

Hanon is a corner-stone that will produce genuine results.

Sorry, but you are spreading so much nonsense that someone needs to step in.

Hanon, used unwisely, can produce repetitive stress injury. I said it is a tool. It is. Used wisely it can produce good results, but a lot of that will depend on CAREFUL directions from a good TEACHER.
Quote:

Try this, practice ONE Hanon study until you are good at it, could take a while. Then, when one
of your friends is around just play it, does your friend recognise it? I would bet not, is your
friend impressed with the speed, smoothness and dexterity, I bet he is.

More nonsense. Who cares what a friend recognizes? If the friend is a pianist, he will INSTANTLY recognize any of the Hanon exercises. If he is not a pianist, he will most likely be more "impressed" by something that does not sound like mindless repetition.

I don't teach Hanon, I don't like Hanon, and I insist that what Hanon teaches can be accomplished in other ways. That said, other teachers have a different view and use Hanon with success. I'm sure as heck not going to make any judgments based on whether a teacher is a Hanon-fan - or not. And I'm not going to make snap judgments about their qualifications.
Quote:

Ask the friend with real qualifications.

What are your qualifications?
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1907970 - 06/04/12 03:54 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: slipperykeys]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5275
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
"It's more for those kids who have poor fine-motor skills and play uneven 16th notes."

Compared to Valentina Lisitsa or Andre Previn we are probably all, "kids with poor fine-motor skills", the whole idea is to improve beyond your current level, whatever that may be, and the only way to do it is practice, whether that be, increasingly difficult, faster,smoother or whatever and through that, improve.

Hi, slipeerykeys:

I believe you were quoting me and replying to my quote, so I'll reply to your reply.

"Kids with poor fine-motor skills" are just that. Kids with poor fine-motor skills. It's an objective statement of fact, not meant to be a relative comparison. I wouldn't call Mr. Previn the pinnacle of piano technique, but I can understand your point of comparison.

Practice can make perfect if you know what you're doing, and I think Hanon can be part of a pianist's practice regimen. It is my opinion that Hanon may not be necessary for everyone.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1907971 - 06/04/12 03:54 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Gary D.]
slipperykeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 340
Loc: Dorset, England
GaryD

I have no intention of getting into an argument because it would appear you have nothing better to do today.

I have posted my opinion, a surprise for you now, I am entitled to it.

You missed out quoting where I said, "to each his own".



Edited by slipperykeys (06/04/12 04:03 AM)

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#1907974 - 06/04/12 04:00 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: AZNpiano]
slipperykeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 340
Loc: Dorset, England
AZNpiano

I do see your point, I am only giving my opinion.

When I watch Valentina Lisitsa I realise just how poor I am compared with where I want to be, and poor motor skills sums me up perfectly.

I am hopefull that the day may come when I am so good I feel I don't need Hanon anymore.

I read recently of people who allow hope to triumph over experience.

I am probably one of them!!!

My Previn reference is because I saw him play Rhapsody in Blue in the mid-sixties and thought it was the most wonderful thing I had ever heard.



Edited by slipperykeys (06/04/12 04:02 AM)

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#1907976 - 06/04/12 04:15 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: slipperykeys]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4648
Loc: South Florida
I would never think of Previn as an example of keyboard wizardry.

But he was an awesome musician. He lived in several worlds. I once had a couple recordings of his own group. It had a very mellow, sophisticated sound. I very much enjoyed his playing, which was as far away from Hanon repetitiveness as anything could be.

Which does not prove that he did not practice Hanon...

And I think his Rachmaninov symphony recordings are splendid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAxBAEb2pmE

See if that puts a smile on your face. smile
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1907981 - 06/04/12 04:39 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
slipperykeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 340
Loc: Dorset, England
GaryD

"I would never think of Previn as an example of keyboard wizardry."

That's fine. But I would be ecstatic if I was that good.

"He lived in several worlds."

Totally. I so admire that ability as I admire Lisitsa's technichal ability.

(For you and ANZpiano)Ever seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7GeKLE0x3s

I am leaving the computer now, but I hope you laugh at the post.
PS Even Eric Morcambe is better than me!

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#1907988 - 06/04/12 05:07 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
pianoyutube Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 18
Loc: Spain
Well, life is a waste of time... or not. That's a philosophical question.

Anyway, if I have an piano in front of me... I prefer to play Chopin, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, and other well known composers than Hanon. Life is short, you know.

I don't understand how repeating exercises of Hanon can help me to play a Mozart sonata (my real goal). I think that playing the difficult sections of the sonata, will help more than repeating Hanon exercises to achieve this goal.
And I apply this simple logic to other compositions.

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#1908041 - 06/04/12 07:53 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: pianoyutube]
TimR Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3001
Loc: Virginia, USA
I was listening to that NPR afternoon interview program and the guest was a famous jazz pianist whose name of course escapes me.

He said he warms up with Hanon.

Then he demonstrated, playing Hanon at speed with the left hand, while improvising over it with the right.

It was VERY impressive.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#1908103 - 06/04/12 09:56 AM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 10743
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I think for the right student, Hanon can be great. I have an adult student who tends to play uneven 16ths or 8ths, and usually pauses at every bar line. She *loves* plying Hanon and it is actually helped her tremendously (with guidance to make sure she's not injuring herself, although she doesn't play them fast). Next I plan to work with her on playing faster while keeping things relaxed.

Hanon is *not* musical, nor was it ever intended to help with musicality. So to say it's unmusical is rather obvious. There are some pianists, however, that doing Hanon exercises without having a clear objective in mind (like helping them with trills by doing the trill exercises) would be pointless and painful. I happen to be one of those people who do not enjoy exercises, but love to make exercises out of the repertoire I'm learning, or at the very least choose an appropriate Hanon exercise to address a particular issue in my rep. But to deny that other pianists may really like it and need it simply because I do not wouldn't be very good pedagogically, IMO.
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MTNA member
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#1908220 - 06/04/12 01:19 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
NeilOS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 599
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Rodrigo V.
I have been told by some pianists that Hanon's "The Virtuoso Pianist, In Sixty Exercises" is a waste of time....it's stupid and nonsense. One pianist even asked me, "Do you think Tchaikovsky or Mozart played these? Throw the book away."

On the other hand, a piano student studying for her phd in piano performance told me that she plays them every day and that she believes it helps her playing?

What is the general consensus on this? I believe if it works for you then by all means play it. However if that's the case then should all teachers teach all their students Hanon?


I don't know if there's a consensus on this, but I can share with you what I have learned.

What do you mean by works for you? When playing something (an exercise) that is supposed to prepare you for something else (a piece of music), I think it's important to ask yourself why? What is the purpose of this particular exercise?

Unfortunately, Mr. Hanon only gives metronome indications and says to repeat the exercises. He doesn't really tell us how to play the exercises, except to lift the fingers high(!). He tells us that they will produce agility, strength(!), independence and evenness.

The mindset from which this point of view stems has largely been replaced over the years, although some still cling doggedly to it, i.e., that it takes physical strength to play the piano. It does not. (A small child can do it.) We gain power not by lifting the fingers away from the hand, which is something they weren't designed to do efficiently, but rather with the discreet participation of the forearm. Hanon's supposition is that by lifting the fingers they will become strong and independent, but we don't train like weight lifters train, by building muscle mass. Rather, we train for refined coordination. The fingers never will be independent of each other, nor need they be; they can, however, be made to sound that way.

In short, "you can play whatever you want, dear," to quote my teacher, but once you know how to play the exercises correctly, i.e., with the participation of the forearm, there is no longer any reason to play them. In fact, there's no point in playing them at all because the technical issues can be addressed in music.

As for the Phd candidate, that routine may serve several purposes: provide a comforting and mindless routine, a delay tactic for avoiding the real work to come or some other obsessive/compulsive purpose. In graduate school I knew a wonderful pianist who drilled scales for hours. Her scales were indeed perfection and she played the 4th Beethoven concerto like an angel. But the same compulsion that drove her to drill those scales, and they were beautiful, drove her into some sort of breakdown and when I last heard she had given up the piano entirely and joined a protective order of some sort. Admittedly, that is an extreme case and this particular pianist was apparently troubled. Playing Hanon won't necessarily cause so severe a reaction and probably won't case any particular harm, unless the idea of lifting fingers is taken to extremes.


Edited by NeilOS (06/04/12 02:43 PM)
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Concert Pianist, University Professor, Private Teacher in Los Angeles
Blog: http://www.pianoteacherlosangeles.com/

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#1908273 - 06/04/12 02:54 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: NeilOS]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Originally Posted By: NeilOS
But the same compulsion that drove her to drill those scales, and they were beautiful, drove her into some sort of breakdown and when I last heard she had given up the piano entirely and joined a protective order of some sort.

Admittedly, that is an extreme case and this particular pianist was apparently troubled. Playing Hanon won't necessarily cause so severe a reaction
and probably won't case any particular harm, unless the idea of lifting fingers is taken to extremes.


What's next from the Hanon Haters, Hanon causes cancer?
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

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#1908281 - 06/04/12 03:10 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: rocket88]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4648
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: NeilOS
But the same compulsion that drove her to drill those scales, and they were beautiful, drove her into some sort of breakdown and when I last heard she had given up the piano entirely and joined a protective order of some sort.

Admittedly, that is an extreme case and this particular pianist was apparently troubled. Playing Hanon won't necessarily cause so severe a reaction
and probably won't case any particular harm, unless the idea of lifting fingers is taken to extremes.


What's next from the Hanon Haters, Hanon causes cancer?

No. How about this:

Around 1980 I met a guy in NYC who was passionate about mastering the piano. He spent hours doing exercises. He never learned to read. He seemed like a great guy, but very obsessive.

About two years later he was dead, one of the first casualties of AIDS. Me prediction that the way he was working might lead to his never getting around to playing music turned out to be right.

And the danger of repetitive motion injury is no joke. Neil quite correctly cautioned against following Hanon's advice, to just lift the fingers.

I think Neil is right, and in this instance I think YOU are 100% off track. You are making fun of something very serious, and those of us who have been around long enough to have witnessed the damage caused by practicing the wrong way have every reason in the world to caution over-eager students.
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Piano Teacher

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#1908286 - 06/04/12 03:24 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Lighten up, Gary.

Hanon Haters typically condemn the series wholesale, without any regard whatsoever for its merits, and thus mislead people away from something that could be, and sometimes is, helpful. As you said earlier, Hanon is a tool to be used correctly.

That is what I am making fun of...the wholesale condemnation by its detractors. Not the repetitive stress thing.

As for Hanon's lifting fingers up high thing, any teacher worth their salt knows that is discredited and potentially harmful.

And yes, I have seen the damage done by repetitive stress, which is why I repeatedly harp on these forums about the importance of carefully developing good technique with a teacher who is capable of correct instruction. Check my posts for that.

As for your guy in NYC anecdote, and what that has to do with Hanon, or repetitive stress injuries, I don't get it.
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Music teacher and piano player.

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#1908312 - 06/04/12 04:28 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3243
Quote:
Hanon causes cancer?


LOL
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#1908313 - 06/04/12 04:28 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: rocket88]
NeilOS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 599
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: NeilOS
But the same compulsion that drove her to drill those scales, and they were beautiful, drove her into some sort of breakdown and when I last heard she had given up the piano entirely and joined a protective order of some sort.

Admittedly, that is an extreme case and this particular pianist was apparently troubled. Playing Hanon won't necessarily cause so severe a reaction
and probably won't case any particular harm, unless the idea of lifting fingers is taken to extremes.


What's next from the Hanon Haters, Hanon causes cancer?


I haven't heard that Hanon causes cancer and I don't hate it, but I have met some very accomplished performing pianists who could no longer play or even hold a coffee cup because of the kind of training advocated by Hanon and his ilk. You aren't being fair in your dismissive reply to my post, the gist of which is that you can play Hanon if you want to but you should ask yourself why.


Edited by NeilOS (06/04/12 04:33 PM)
_________________________
Concert Pianist, University Professor, Private Teacher in Los Angeles
Blog: http://www.pianoteacherlosangeles.com/

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#1908314 - 06/04/12 04:28 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: rocket88]
Para Otras Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 309
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Lighten up, Gary.

Hanon Haters typically condemn the series wholesale, without any regard whatsoever for its merits, and thus mislead people away from something that could be, and sometimes is, helpful. As you said earlier, Hanon is a tool to be used correctly.

That is what I am making fun of...the wholesale condemnation by its detractors. Not the repetitive stress thing.

As for Hanon's lifting fingers up high thing, any teacher worth their salt knows that is discredited and potentially harmful.

And yes, I have seen the damage done by repetitive stress, which is why I repeatedly harp on these forums about the importance of carefully developing good technique with a teacher who is capable of correct instruction. Check my posts for that.

As for your guy in NYC anecdote, and what that has to do with Hanon, or repetitive stress injuries, I don't get it.
I am sorry to interrupt, but I think that GaryD was joking. He even himself said:

I don't teach Hanon, I don't like Hanon, and I insist that what Hanon teaches can be accomplished in other ways. That said, other teachers have a different view and use Hanon with success. I'm sure as heck not going to make any judgments based on whether a teacher is a Hanon-fan - or not. And I'm not going to make snap judgments about their qualifications."

and

"There is no consensus. Hanon is a tool. All tools can be used for the wrong job. Any tool may come in handy when no other tool works as well."

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#1908332 - 06/04/12 04:53 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Rodrigo V.]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4648
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Lighten up, Gary.
Hanon Haters typically condemn the series wholesale, without any regard whatsoever for its merits, and thus mislead people away from something that could be, and sometimes is, helpful. As you said earlier, Hanon is a tool to be used correctly.

No problem with that.
Quote:

That is what I am making fun of...the wholesale condemnation by its detractors. Not the repetitive stress thing.

Your highlighting of Neil's words seemed to ridicule what he was saying. Neil, in my opinion, was simply saying what we are saying, in different words.
Quote:

As for Hanon's lifting fingers up high thing, any teacher worth their salt knows that is discredited and potentially harmful.

Rocket, we are not ADDRESSING the teachers who "know their salt". We are addressing those who do NOT "know their salt", and that includes people who are lurking. And yes, some of them are "teachers".
Quote:

And yes, I have seen the damage done by repetitive stress, which is why I repeatedly harp on these forums about the importance of carefully developing good technique with a teacher who is capable of correct instruction. Check my posts for that.

No argument with that point. But we don't get many really knowledgeable people around like Neil, and lots of time the people who do NOT know what they are talking about dominate discussions in this forum. I'm sorry if I seem over serious, and I have never had a quarrel with you - and hope that we are not having one now - but the subject of the ignorant giving advice freely really upsets me. It is one step from dealing with the kind of pathetic teaching that almost all my transfer students receive. And if you think I am exaggerating, then you are one of many who simply can't imagine the extent and dominance of ignorance in this area. I believe Morodiene will back me up here. frown
Quote:

As for your guy in NYC anecdote, and what that has to do with Hanon, or repetitive stress injuries, I don't get it.

1) He was heading for injury. He would have hurt himself had he continued, otherwise healthy, BUT

2) My main point was that there are teachers who stress rote exercises so much that there students do not learn to read.

These points were not aimed at you, Rocket. But I remain deadly serious about the points I am making. How common is wrong physical instruction? Very common.

And are the teachers who have strong reputations - and thus continue to attracts students, some of whom are highly talented - continuing to teach damaging ideas.

Absolutely. Do you disagree with this? <honest question>


Edited by Gary D. (06/04/12 04:58 PM)
Edit Reason: typos
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#1908341 - 06/04/12 05:17 PM Re: HANON exercises is a waste of time...? [Re: Gary D.]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
But we don't get many really knowledgeable people around like Neil, and lots of time the people who do NOT know what they are talking about dominate discussions in this forum.


Exactly. And regarding this topic, is the people who Hate Hanon who often dominate the talk, and in my opinion many do NOT know what they are talking about.

Which is why I have such a strong reaction to people putting it down. Hanon is a useful tool that when used correctly.

I am an award winning pianist, have taught for decades, (all ages) and have seen great results with Hanon both in my personal playing and with selected certain students. Rachmaninoff used it all the time.

Originally Posted By: Gary D.
And if you think I am exaggerating, then you are one of many who simply can't imagine the extent and dominance of ignorance in this area. I believe Morodiene will back me up here. frown


Well, I have taught in Florida for almost 15 years, (not south Florida) and before that in California and New England, and the ignorance you speak of is not specific to Florida. Bad teaching is everywhere.

Originally Posted By: Gary D.
My main point was that there are teachers who stress rote exercises so much that there students do not learn to read.


The blame there is on the bad teachers, not on Hanon.

I completely agree with you, basically. My transfers students are typically so poorly taught that I often contemplate not taking them any more. It is very frustrating.

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