Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1908397 - 06/04/12 06:45 PM Yet another Kawai MP6 review
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 712
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
I received my MP6 today and played it for the last 6 hours or so. I know that many people have already shared excellent and thorough opinions/reviews on this forum, that's why I'll try to share some brief points for the statistics

- As with CA63, the default touch curve is way too sensitive and I set it to heavy where it feels most natural.

- Believe it or not, I seem to enjoy the MP6 keyboard much more than that of CA63. MP6 feels livelier, lighter, quicker, more responsive and less tiring. In contrast CA63 feels very heavy and sluggish and usually I felt pain in my wrists after few hours of playing.

- The Ivory touch feels different. Maybe it needs some time and some sweat but currently it feels like I am touching a resin and at this very moment I can feel my arms as though they've been covered with talc powder, they don't slip against each other. I still feel it even after I washed my hands with soap. I'll report on this again after few weeks/months of playing.

- Default piano sound is very similar to CA63 and at the same time there's some slight tin-like overtone which was not present on CA63. I suppose that's what differentiates UPHI and PHI. I would agree that if one doesn't know there's a difference it would be harder for him to discover that difference. Yet CA63 sound a bit better in acoustic piano department.

- The piano sound is bright but lowering EQ high frequencies helps to make it softer.

- Main Rhodes is excellent and is a perfectly good balance as a start point for tweaking - not too bright, not too dark, so you can alter it the way you want. The amp simulation is killer.
------------------------

Here's some stuff that I don't like and I feel these will irritate me much in future:

- Touch response is a global setting (not a per sound option), and I found I needed heavy touch for the acoustic pianos only. Thus switching between acoustic piano and Rhodes (and all the rest) requires also switching the touch response each time.

- There doesn't seem to be a way to see whether EQ has been applied or not. You need to press the EQ button and look values on the screen to figure out if there are some tweaks applied. Also, there's no easy way to quickly switch on/off the EQ. Of course, you can assign it to the SW button, however I prefer other functions assigned to that button.

- Same applies to ADSR envelope.

- There's no compressor and this must be a huge mistake I did since I thought it had one. It's really an important feature for me, especially for live playing. I am somehow disappointed but I'll have to live with that and it's my fault that I didn't dig too much in the manual before buying it.

- There's no easy way to apply two effects on a sound. There is some workaround: use one and same sound in two zones with different effects, but the results are a little bit unpredictable.

------------------------------

What could be better:

- The two modes: SOUND and SETUP are confusing and not quite intuitive. What I realized is that you're always in a setup where you can have 4 zones. So, SOUND mode is not an alternative to the SETUP mode, it's rather a sub-mode of SETUP mode where you are choosing the sound for a zone in the current setup. It's not wrong, it's just a little bit counterintuitive and semantically inconsistent.

- The "startup setup" is redundant and I can't see how it makes sense. Once you switch to another setup, you can't reload the "startup setup" unless you restart the instrument. That's stupid. What they have to do is to provide a way to choose which of the stored setups will be loaded at startup so that you can always return to it even if you've switched to another setup and without a need to restart the instrument. It's just another confusing and semantically incorrect feature.

- Whenever you change something in the system settings and then press any button, it stores automatically the changed setting for a second or two and the instrument is nor responsive during that time and you can't play it. This is yet another engineering quirk as with the previous points.

----------------------------

And here's a string resonance bug (also found on CA63):

Press middle C silently and keep it pressed. Press C# or B (a semitone higher or lower) and you will hear string resonance sample excited on the C note. That's definitely wrong.

----------------------------

In a conclusion: It's early to say with certainty, however I think I like MP6 better than CA63. It's more playable because of the lighter and more responsive keyboard.


Edited by CyberGene (06/04/12 06:50 PM)
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / PR /Roland
The Right Mic Makes all the Difference. Piano Mics at Sweetwater

Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano

Click Here


#1908414 - 06/04/12 07:29 PM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8854
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
CyberGene, thank you for your interesting comments about the MP6.

May I ask if you are using the latest software update (currently v1.11)?
http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/support/updates.html

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1908419 - 06/04/12 07:37 PM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 712
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
As a paranoid programmer this was the very first thing I did before even test playing my MP6 - I checked the firmware (was 1.10) and updated it to 1.11. This must be crazy laugh


Edited by CyberGene (06/04/12 07:37 PM)
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

Top
#1908420 - 06/04/12 07:43 PM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8854
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Okay, that's good to know.

It's obviously recommended to use the latest software, although the v1.11 update contains minor bug fixes only.

The v1.10 update improved the touch curve significantly (along with a number of other fixes/updates), so I'm a little surprised that you still prefer 'Heavy', although these are all rather personal preferences. wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1908422 - 06/04/12 07:47 PM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3020
Loc: Oregon
Congratulations on the new MP6, CyberGene! That's a great initial analysis, and it accords pretty much with my own findings.

With regard to the interface anomalies, I've found that you get used to the system very quickly, and navigation is not really an issue for me. I totally agree about not being able to see at a glance what the EQ or drive settings are - that's a pain, so I tend to set them and leave them.

The custom velocity settings - of which there are two, if I'm remembering correctly - are very useful for getting a feel that you can live with for most sounds. Before OS version 1.10, it was essential to use these, as the default curves gave a sense of disconnect with, particularly, the AP sounds. It's a lot better now, but I still tend to stick to a custom curve.

Good luck with it, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts as you get used to the MP6.

Edit: sorry, didn't see the last two posts re the OS before posting.


Edited by voxpops (06/04/12 07:50 PM)
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

Top
#1908424 - 06/04/12 07:48 PM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 712
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
I am not sure but I think "normal" on MP6 is actually better than "normal" on CA63. Furthermore, "heavy" on MP6 is also better than "heavy" on CA63. I am not sure if this makes any sense laugh

What I mean is "normal" on CA63 is way too sensitive and "heavy" on CA63 is way too heavy. On MP6 there's not such a huge gap, and it's certainly more subtle. I think it may have to do with the different key action as well.
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

Top
#1908430 - 06/04/12 07:56 PM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 712
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Gosh, I can't get asleep! I was about to watch the season finale of Game of Thrones on my computer and then go to the bed for the last three hours, but instead I am constantly running round the MP6 laugh I think I like it more than the CA63 in terms of touch, it's closer to what I felt in Yamaha CP5 keyboard. I've finally convinced myself I prefer lighter and less sluggish keyboards. OK, I am going to see that Game of Thrones episode finally smile
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

Top
#1908442 - 06/04/12 08:19 PM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8854
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I'm more of a 'Mad Men' person myself - this season has been absolutely incredible!

[/offtopic]
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1908564 - 06/05/12 01:52 AM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
Bogs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/17/10
Posts: 133
Originally Posted By: CyberGene
And here's a string resonance bug (also found on CA63):

Press middle C silently and keep it pressed. Press C# or B (a semitone higher or lower) and you will hear string resonance sample excited on the C note. That's definitely wrong.


I was able to reproduce it on CA63 and yes, I have the latest firmware installed(1.09). I hope Kawai will fix this in the future.

There's another bug related to the string resonance I sometimes run into: when playing lots of chords very fast, the resonance doesn't get 'reset'. Then if I hit a note, there's this big 'boom' that comes along with it. Powering off and on fixes the problem. When it happens again (I can't reproduce it all the time), I'll try to make a video and uploaded it.

P.S: sorry to hijack the thread
_________________________
old Gaveau upright & Kawai CA63; previously Korg SP250

Top
#1908598 - 06/05/12 04:17 AM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
M.Schreck Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 21
Kawai should redo the velocity curves on CA63.

I feel similar to what CyberGene said,
for me "normal" is silly, I feel like Cecil Taylor, while
"heavy" is ok, though it's hard to get the higher velocities out.

Top
#1908726 - 06/05/12 10:43 AM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
Providence Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/29/10
Posts: 137
Thanks for the review CyberGene. Would you rate the MP6 as a midi controller? How would you rate the MP6 against the Yamaha CP33 presuming you had a chance to play the yamaha action on the P155/Cp33 please?
Thanks in advance

Top
#1908734 - 06/05/12 10:57 AM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 712
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Providence, I haven't tried to hook the MP6 to my laptop yet to test it with software instruments but I'll certainly do that soon and will report back.

Regarding the action comparison between CP33 and MP6, provided it's the same Yamaha GH action as in the P90 which I've owned, I would certainly prefer the Kawai action over the Yamaha. Yamaha GH is a heavy and sluggish action and although I had grown with it and used to love it, I wouldn't buy anything with a GH action in it. It is a dated design. What was an arguably excellent hammer action 7 years ago is now only lagging behind competing actions. However the NW-action in Yamaha CP5 is a different story but it's also an expensive one.


Edited by CyberGene (06/05/12 10:59 AM)
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

Top
#1908753 - 06/05/12 11:12 AM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: Providence]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3151
Originally Posted By: Providence
Would you rate the MP6 as a midi controller? How would you rate the MP6 against the Yamaha CP33

I don't know if you cared about comparing their MIDI controller functions, but the MP6 is much more capable. I believe the main differences are: 4 zones instead of 2, 256 definable presets instead of 14, an extra footswitch jack, 4 assignable knobs separate from the faders.

Top
#1908778 - 06/05/12 11:46 AM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
Providence Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/29/10
Posts: 137
Thank you very much

Top
#1908867 - 06/05/12 02:48 PM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
R Jay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/12
Posts: 20
Interesting about touch response only being global. I am very tempted by the MP6 and on reading the manual I thought I understood that touch was a parameter you could set for each setup. That wouldn't be as useful as setting it per sound but it would get round the problem. Perhaps Kawai James knows the correct answer?
_________________________
Nord Piano 2, EV ZXA1 x2, Allen and Heath ZED 10FX, Roland VK7, Kawai KG-2C

Top
#1908875 - 06/05/12 03:06 PM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 712
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
James, I found something which may be a bug or a feature. For all the reverbs, if I increase the reverb depth (because the default one is too low and reverbs are barely audible), I can hear something like a detuning, similar to chorus effect. Here's a demo:
Kawai MP6 Reverb

You can hear few notes without reverb, then with reverb.

For this example I've used Hall 1 reverb and a max depth of 127 in order to show it easily.

Maybe that's Kawai's understanding of proper reverberation or maybe it's a bug but I would like to hear any opinion from other people and of course I'll be glad if you can bring that to the engineering team for their opinion. I haven't noticed anything like that on CA63 or any other digital piano, even when the reverb depth is increased extremely.

I am not sure how noticeable it is by the audio demo, however in actual playing it's slightly irritating and distracting. When I tried to increase the reverb for the first time today I was immediately surprised and thought I may have enabled a chorus by mistake.


Edited by CyberGene (06/05/12 03:11 PM)
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

Top
#1909174 - 06/06/12 03:15 AM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8854
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
CyberGene, thank you for highlighting this characteristic - I will check with the engineering team whether or not it is indeed a bug.

If possible, please write a thorough description of the steps you take (ideally from power-on) in order to produce this sound.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1909179 - 06/06/12 04:03 AM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 712
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Here are the steps (based on clean factory reset unit):
1. Turn on
2. Click and hold the reverb button
3. Using the menu up-down buttons choose Hall 1 reverb
4. Turn the "Rev depth" knob to max position (value 127)

It's noticeable best in the higher octaves: C5 (the C above middle C) and above
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

Top
#1919223 - 06/27/12 12:49 AM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
premium_devil Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/19/11
Posts: 6
CyberGene,

Thanks for this review and other posts you made in other thread about your opinion of this MP6.

I am about buying MP6 also.
But, if I eventually buy it at the end, I don't have any choice other than will buy it directly from the manufacturer.
Yes...finally, they will start to sell it in Indonesia where it is made smile
But to wait until they open a dealer, I don't think it is a good idea. (I can't stand to wait that long to play this great dp ;))
I made a phone call to the manufacturer and they say yes, i can buy it directly from them.

the problem is I haven't tried this dp, but from reviews I read and from spec comparison I made, I think this is a great dp.
I have tried Yamaha CLP430, Kurzweil SP4-8, and CP50.
comparing Kawai MP6 with those dp/stage piano, how is the touch action of this mp6?
could you help me to grade from the lighter to the more weight action?
Thank you smile

edit
oh yea, those DPs are in the same price range in Indonesia, except CP50 which has a little bit higher price.
so, comparing those DP would be a valid enough comparison smile


Edited by premium_devil (06/27/12 12:56 AM)

Top
#1919252 - 06/27/12 02:46 AM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 712
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Compared to both CLP-430 and CP50, MP6 action feels lighter. I personally don't like the initial resistance of Yamaha GH and GH3 action which makes them feel sluggish and difficult for playing. I haven't played SP4-8 but I believe it has the same Fatar action as Nord keyboards, and in my opinion that's a very unrealistic and sub-standard piano action.
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

Top
#1920352 - 06/29/12 01:14 AM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
premium_devil Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/19/11
Posts: 6
hmm...

OK CyberGene..
Thanks for your answer.
That is really helpfull smile

Top
#1992035 - 11/28/12 04:30 PM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 712
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
I must admit I feel inspired at my MP6 laugh


And here's the catch with digitals: they cost 100 times less than a proper Steinway grand but you've got to accept they look (and behave) like a christmas tree laugh
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

Top
#1992099 - 11/28/12 06:45 PM Re: Yet another Kawai MP6 review [Re: CyberGene]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8854
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Wow, that's a great 'night time' view!
Very cool pic!

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
150 registered (Alex1, acortot, ajames, 36251, Alex-SapRenovation, 37 invisible), 1850 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75516 Members
42 Forums
156161 Topics
2293281 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawai K200
by Vidsin
10 minutes 33 seconds ago
Medelssohn on meaning in music
by phantomFive
Today at 01:52 PM
Correcting Heavy Piano Touchweight in Grand Pianos
by Paul678
Today at 01:39 PM
[AMAZING PIANO COMP.] Anyone able to transcribe it from ear?
by Weakky
Today at 12:29 PM
[AMAZING PIANO COMP.] Anyone able to transcribe it from ear?
by Weakky
Today at 12:21 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission