Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Prevent ADHD with Piano

It is a sad case! Often individuals who suffer from advanced P.A.D.S. do not recognize the ailment in themselves, and will often be confused about afflictions in others. Doctor LoPresti's work continues . . .

Whether a student has ADHD or not, each one needs to be treated and taught as an individual. "One size fits all" lessons are simply not effective. Every person learns in a different way, so it becomes our responsibility to teach in a way that the student understands.
Several studies suggest that classical music therapy can be a beneficial part of behavioral modification for children diagnosed with ADHD/ADD, but behavior could just as easily be modified by not feeding kids a steady diet of Froot Loops, McDonald's hamburgers and soda too. But I digress...

You're exactly right. It would eliminate a lot of problems, a lot of excuses and gain everyone some respect.

There are two completely different issues here.

One is politeness.

The other is a learning disability.

I have a student who very obviously is ADHD. It is true that the way he is wired makes it hard for him not to blurt out things, and you can see it physically. He can't hold still unless he is playing, but then he is sometimes rather awesome. He does have trouble not speaking out, which can lead to rudeness (which I will not put up with) but also leads to very positive, enjoyable conversations.

And he is VERY smart, with a good sense of humor.
Here is how I do think "piano prevents ADHD". Of course it doesn't prevent anything, but with highly intelligent kids who think very fast and are extremely goal-oriented, the potential often exists to work like demons for a surprisingly long period when they are engaged, interested, hooked on the fascination of what they are doing.

So we need to separate legitimate problems from parentally induces ones - rudeness, laziness and an endless stream of excuses.

My kids pediatrician told us once, many years ago when people first started looking for excuses of why their kids did not mind them and why they could not pay attention.

First off, he said that in many cases, it is not that they "can't pay attention, is that the parents are not making them pay attention."

He said, that if many parents would start with teaching their children that no, means NO... Period. NO! Stick with it. That, just because YOU want it, does mean, that you can have it! That, it is NOT a ME ME ME world. There are other people around you that are just as important as you are... That if you expect respect, you give respect. You do not simply demand it giving nothing in return... That, if these parents with bratty kids, that blame everything else BUT the fact that their kids are just plain brats, (and it is the parents fault that they are brats) would do these things, which are things parents are supposed to do, that we would mysteriously discover that many things that are blamed on ADD for example, could be changed. They would be gone!

He said that many parents want a reason for the misbehavior rather than disciplining the kids for being brats or for being wrong. "Well, he did it because..." NO, he did it because he's a spoiled rotten brat and it's your fault! That's where I'm coming from. I firmly believe that many problems are simply not dealt with in the proper manner. Many parents no longer believe in spankings. Many do not believe in discipline at all. Some toss their kids into dryers or lock them in closets rather than just spank them.

When I am servicing pianos in homes, I see kids literally hitting their parents. They parents are doing NOTHING to stop it. Literally, nothing! I've seen 4 year old slugging their mother in the stomach because they want attention, and they want it NOW!!!!!!! Their mother is giving that attention to me or I am trying to explain something to the mother about their piano. These kids are constantly interrupting and the parent is allowing it. In this process of talking to me and getting slugged, they are completely ignoring the fact that their kid is slugging them! One mother said, "well, little Johnny has ADD." I thought, OH BULL!!! Little Johnny needs a good old fashioned swat on the behind! It's a blame game. In this world, it seems to always be someone elses' fault.

Now, we may very well have ADHD and all of that other stuff out there however, that was not my doctor's point, nor is it mine. He believed and so do I, that, that much of this can be eliminated by love, discipline, which is a form of love, staying home with the kids instead of wanting all of the toys, and giving more love. Spending time with kids is everything.

Many parents refuse to stay home or don't want to stay home and raise their own kids. That will not help matters any. I've heard the excuses "but, we can't make a decent living unless both of us work." Well, then give something up. We had kids, they need parents to raise them not a baby sitter to raise them.

My wife stayed home with our kids while I worked my tail off to make a living for our family. We gave up a LOT so she could do that.

At one point, the school system wanted to put both of our kids on Redalin (don't know the spelling,) because they thought they had ADD. We REFUSED. The kids hated school, is what it amounted too. But, we stuck to our guns, kept helping them with their home work, explaining it, showing them how to do it, yet, letting them do it, but refused to give them medicine. They are both grown now, productive kids of 25 and 22 with full time jobs who respect others, work hard for a living and understand the value of giving and receiving. They do not have ADD. They never had it. They can both concentrate on anything that they want to concentrate on and do.

Far to much is blamed on something else.

Jerry, when I taught I had a grade 2 student who would suddenly blurt out "How do you spell 'world'?" in the middle of my teaching math., or found himself painting a tree on a little girl's dress because it was white and reminded him of fresh paper. He was miserable about not being able to concentrate long enough to learn anything well. He was a polite, serious child with involved mature parents - he could not control the impulses and wanted to. He was diagnosed with ADHD and put on Ritalin. It enabled him to keep the focus he so desperately fought to have, and HE told me how relieved he was. This boy did not "need a swat on the behind" - he was struggling with something he could not control.

This is a real thing. The problem is that the term and the treatment are misused. Anyone who is fidgety or bored or poorly raised is "diagnosed" as ADHD and put on drugs. This is nothing more than professional incompetence.

There are things I learned later which might have avoided the Ritalin. For example, with true ADHD the person is easily distracted because the senses are stimulated by everything. We're told as teachers to make things stimulating, to some part influenced by the Sesame Street experiment which was designed for kids in particular environments. Maybe the dull slow kid in a dull environment will benefit from bright colors, rapid action, perky voices - it can drive the bright, sensitive kid or one who wants to dwell on things to distraction (literally). I learned about special classrooms where everything is toned down: no bright pictures, plain clothing worn by the teacher, essentially the "dull" environmnent you might have seen in the 1800's. Kids with ADHD put into such environments tended to do well. A "good swat on the behind" does not help someone who is struggling to concentrate.

Actually I did have a student who got lots of swats on the behind - and the face - and who knows where. He was tiny for his age, known as a troublemaker. The boy in question was a superb artist at his young age, imaginative, and loved writing stories in his free time at the activity table. I stressed his special gifts and obvious intellect, he was given paints for Christmas, and the kids in the classroom started to notice him. He stopped being a troublemaker, and started drawing pictures.

I will also suggest that paying attention to your child, rather than only doing so when he misbehaves, alleviates a lot of problems.

The point is that problems like ADHD are real, but people use an amateurish interpretation for anything that is "active" - and it is possible that this attitude happens right in the school system as well. Yes, misbehavior and brattiness exists and probably way too much, and kids are "diagnosed" and put on drugs inappropriately, but that does not mean that this condition does not exist. The thing for any problem is to find the CAUSE. You can't solve something unless you know why it is happening.

Oh man, I don't have time to comment much.

Jerry, I think you are right. I agree with you SO much.

But Keystring, I also think YOU are right. I totally agree with you, for different reasons.

My feelings about "spanking": for the most part, I think it is just a way to teach people that we, the adults, are stronger than the kids, and that we, the adults, can do what we want.

But I also remember getting a really hard swat on the butt a couple times. Once we were in my grandmother's back yard, close to a canal. My mother said, "Gary, come here," and for whatever reason I decided not to. I was about five, maybe six. She closed the distance between us in zero time, and BAM, swat on the butt. And I never forgot what she said:

"WHEN I CALL YOU, DON'T YOU DARE RUN AWAY. YOU COME!"

And I honestly remember what I thought. "Oops, I'm not gonna do THAT again."

Now, having said that, my parents almost always reasoned with me, and my thoughts and feelings were respected. I was not abused. They set limits and enforced those limits.

Where I agree with Jerry: I have students who "can't behave" because they have condition X, Y or Z. Funny, they behave just fine when they are alone with me. I have one boy who has "ADD", and I see NO signs of this. My joke now is that ADD = Always Distracted and Disoriented. Sometimes I think that ADD = Y chromosome!

But I have an ADHD student, on meds, who gets no extra passes from his parents. His parents are involved, they do set limits, they back me up, and they do everything they can. This boy is one I really REALLY like, and my opinion is that he is incredibly intelligent. I can see him struggle with his own impulses, and I see more control developing as he gets older. He is also a LOT like me, only I was much quieter.

HARD subject, Jerry and Keystring!

In many cases, things are diagnosed incorrectly, of course. A "spanking" is not a cure all but, some sort of discipline is always called for. We all have rules and regulations to abide by. As kids, as well as now, as adults.

That's the line I draw. Watching kids in the store playing with toys that have not been bought. Bouncing basket balls on the floor and trying to shoot hoops in the store is totally unacceptable. Playing football in the isles or tossing balls back and forth is not acceptable either. Yet, parents allow these things to take place on a regular basis. These kids need discipline or, correction.

Not everything is a spanking... Don't get me wrong... That's why I included love. That includes spending time with the kids. Playing with them. Taking them to the park, walking with them, playing ball etc...

I've sat in class rooms where teachers wind up spending much of their time in a disrupted class room trying to keep things in order instead of teaching when kids that are "naughty" and not corrected at home, are around. It's the parents fault. Maybe the parents should be spanked... They need a lesson in raising kids. It's not easy.

Children's diets also play into it according to our kids doctor. Eating 15 Twinkies a day, chocolate, potato chips and more, instead of healthy foods. Coming home to a TV dinner because both parents work and they are just to tired to properly prepare food for their child let alone for themselves.

There is a HUGE LINE between spanking and smacking in the face and elsewhere. Spanking, if a child continuously misbehaves, I am all for. Anything other than than? NOT!!!! And, there is a line with that too. I think, rather than go into what should be obvious, as a line for most people, I'll just say, that there is a line to be drawn on if a kid is spanked how hard, and how many, one will get. And, NEVER EVER spank out of anger! Walk away, calm down and then figure out what the problem is or was and then address it. We may find that the whole problem was a lack of attention from the get go.

Many kids, I know, I was one of them, were not given enough attention growing up. I was rarely hugged. Rarely told "I love you." Rarely played with. I was on my own. While my mother was home all the time, she didn't like kids... She should NOT have been a mother but, that's a different story.

I did learn however, because of my own negative upbringing, what NOT to do with my kids and how to make them successful and how to break a "chain of abuse that I received as a child both mentally and physically."

LOVE and affection, along with lots and lots of hugs are extremely important!!!!! Even though my kids are 22 and 25, I always tell them how important they are to me, hug them when I see them and even give them a kiss. They are given lots of love!

You reminded me of something Keys... I remember one time, when one of my sons was being naughty all the time. We tried several things but, nothing worked until my mother in law said, "I know the problem." WHAT? "You are not spending enough time with him." That was our first son and he was about 2 years old. From that point on, I spent a LOT of time with him. We both did. Immediately, I saw a difference. He made a complete turn around and behaved.

So, in many cases, the child is simply looking for attention, or approval. Whether that be negative attention, it is still attention as far as the child is concerned. We need to make a positive outlook for all of our kids.

We spanked our youngest son when he rode is bike out into the road in the middle of the day Gary. He almost got ran over! He never forgot that one either.

Unfortuneately the two can often overlap each other. I work in special education and have ADD myself so I'm seeing both aspects of it on a daily basis. I'm running into parents who don't discipline their children with learning or physical disabilities out of laziness or possibly a feeling of guilt. Understanding that a child is going to have difficulty doing something and allowing for it is one thing, not making it clear to the child that they are expected to do their best and then just letting them be in control is not acceptable.

As for the OP's idea, I'm reasonably sure that simply getting formal lessons will not cure my ADD and that if my parents had sent me for lessons as a child that would not have prevented it either. If only it were that simple...

How is it that many of the very best discussions are found on (almost) Page 2 or Page 3 of the most inane threads? There must be some chemestry where a topic that starts out stupid stimulates our best thinking.

Jerry, I especially love the fact that you have handled constructive discipline, AND made a general condemnation of our popular way of life! These sentiments should be shouted from the rooftops, and pasted on billboards ((do they still have real, roadside billboards?)); instead of buried here on "almost" Page 2. The habits of behavior you cite are a shame, and the fact that we are doing little-to-nothing to reverse the trend is, in and of itself, its own shame.

Ed

Are you guys talking about ADHD or bratty behaviour?

I have been a part of many discussion forums. A few weeks ago I started a thread and was attacked because I didn't post again with two days. I don't think I am the one who is engaging in rude behavior.

No one really knows what ADHD is or even if it really exists. Before you label me a crackpot, please consider the following facts.

1. Ritalin and Adderal have been banned in several countries including South Korea, Japan, and Canada. Doctors in other countries have refused to ban it but have made it a very rare prescription.

2. Physically there is very little evidence for the existence of ADHD. Some claim that the dopamine levels in the body are evidence of ADHD (kids with it usually have much lower levels). The problem is that dopamine is highly influenced by diet as well as genetics. The other line of evidence focuses on brainscans. Supposedly, kids with ADHD have very different looking brains than a "normal" person. However, very few children are ever diagnosed on the basis of a brainscan and the scan can really mean different things.

3. A study by the University of Australia found very high correlations between fast food diets and ADHD. When confronted with this, some doctors started suggesting that ADHD causes people to eat fast food (because it couldn't possibly be the other way around!).

4. Many of the original researchers of ADHD believed that it would only be a fraction of percentage of the population.

In other words......the definition of ADHD and the existence of ADHD are up for debate. No one doubts that there are kids (and adults) who behave this way but we aren't sure that they are behaving this way because of ADHD.

Should we so sure?

In the last twenty years, ADHD diagnoses have skyrocketed. During that same period of time, use of video games and cell phones by kids has also dramatically increased. Isn't it possible that our attention spans are being worn down by this technology? Most kids on a cell phone go from one thing to another in rapid succession. One minute they are texting a friend, then they are surfing the web, then they are making a call, then they are playing a game. In some cases, they are doing several of these things at once.

And we wonder why so many of them can't concentrate on a simple task?

With piano, you must also concentrate on many things. However, these is a key difference (no pun intended). The things you learn in a piano piece all come together to make a whole. A student might learn the right hand, then the left, then both together, and then focus on rhythm, pedaling, dynamics etc. Eventually, the mind fuses all of these disparate elements together.

So, if behavior can destroy attention spans, couldn't it also enhance it?

No, sometimes it just kills them.

In my last one Keys, I was talking about bratty behavior and a lack of discipline. I do believe though, as did our pediatrician, that for starters, discipline is mandatory and on top of that, I also believe as does he, that, in and of itself in some cases, will eliminate the need for medicine.

Add to that, TWO parents instead of one. Slam me for saying that if you want but, I am a strong advocate of 2 parents, not one with 12 babies living off from the system.

I've been married 33 years to my first and only wife. 1 is enough!!! LOL! KIDDING HON! Good thing she doesn't read here. Gary you don't tell on me either!

Music is good for kids. It enhances their ability to learn. Studies have been done, I can't tell you where to find them but, I know that Yamaha did one many years ago and kids that had music, not just piano lessons but music, somewhere, did better in math than kids that had none at all.

I deleted that paragraph Keys... Thanks for making me aware of it.

Keys knows what I meant but, some others might not..... Hard to write exactly what is being thought on paper and even harder to write it so that everyone knows what you mean.

Just curious as to which university this was. As far as I'm aware there's no "University of Australia".

When I referred to bratty behaviour, I was asking which type of student problem was being discussed, not whether any poster here was being bratty. Ed was quoting Jerry, and was talking about popular ways of life, shouting things from rooftops - it sounded like bratty behaviour rather than ADHD was being discussed, so I asked which topic was being meant.

I believe all the cell phones, texting and video games are causing children who do not have ADHD to behave as if they do. That doesn't change the fact that it exists, it just makes it harder for the average person to tell who does and does not genuinely have it and easier for people to assume its the problem and not look any deeper. I never went through the huge battery of tests some people do for an ADD diagnosis, but my brother did. He was diagnosed with ADHD with some other learning disorders as a child. Our family did not eat much fast food (couldn't afford to)our access to junk food was limited and the diagnosis came well before we aquired our first Atari 2600 so the video games didn't cause it. Back then you also didn't have every family physician labelling the child and writing out the prescription for Ritalin just because someone was at their wits end. My parents had to take my brother to the Cleveland Clinic for the initial evaluation and then yearly to keep his prescriptions current.

Learned behaviors like music lessons and structured activities can enhance attention span in someone with ADHD not because it gets rid of or prevents ADHD but because it helps to teach coping strategies that can be used by the person to help organize themselves and focus their attention where they want and need it to be instead of on whatever stray stimuli show up in the environment.

I don't want to divert from the topic, but I am sure that there are more than a few single parents reading these threads. There is nothing inherent in raising children alone that makes a person into a poor parent, nor are all couples good parents. If there is a good partnership of course it's a lot easier.

Addendum: Jerry thanks - you're the greatest.