Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum tone of new strings

I recently had to replace a bichord pair at A2 on a small, very old Emerson grand that had been reconditioned and restrung about 15 years ago. (One had broken during tuning, and broke again during an attempt to splice, hence the need to replace both.)

The problem is that the new strings have a markedly different tonal quality than the old strings. I know this is unavoidable, to some extent, but usually the old strings sound dull and the new ones sound bright. In this case it's the opposite: the old strings have a very crisp sound, and the new ones thud. The customer is not happy, and I don't know what I can do for him. Try another pair from a different supplier?

thanks.

Take it up with the string maker. You may have gotten bad replacements.

Anne:

If you fitted the strings correctly ... 1/2 twist at the hitch pin going the same way as the winding - tapped down the loop, nicely seated over the bridge pins ... then it can only be badly made strings. As you rightly point out, new bass strings are nearly always brighter than the old originals, and the most common fault with new replacements is when they haven't been fitted correctly and the windings rattle.

I would contact the maker and get replacements.

Were they dull sounding when fitted by you, or have they gone dull sounding shortly after fitting? I only ask because I've known customers try to polish new bass strings and completely ruin them

No twist for the double winded, say my bassmaker ( inside is turning the opposite direction than external winding, makes sence) - up to 1.5 turns for smaller ones. ( But in the end he say that if the wire is well made it keep straight and do not twist on itself when it is out of the package)

Isaac:

In reality when fitting new bass strings one seldom finds that the eye lines up perectly straight to the hitch pin after winding the wrestpin coils ( With wrest pins out of the plank ) ... that is why I say 1/2 a turn ... it's safer to do this than risk having loosened the outer winding.

Ys I understand. But many turn them a full turn. I am not even sure a good string will sound better with 1.5 turn than with the security you state.
My bass winder is not opposed to that habit, but not sure it is better...

Also a bass string not so well made will twist on itself by reaction when it goes out of the lathe. this may be noticed before mounting. there I understand better the need for twisting

As you say ..... There are good and not so good string makers ... so I find it best to always employ someone who has the best reputation for quality work rather than best price. Over twisting a string is seldom ever needed on a good set.

I hope the bass strings are not the only suspects here being considered responsible for the discouraging sound.

Sting makers are being thrown under the bus before other potential issues such as design, sound board condition and bridge condition are being discussed.

Who knows Larry - From what was indicated it seems that only the new strings are suspect. Nothing would suggest bridge, design, or soundboard issues. We can only guess from the information supplied. I naturally assume, this being a tuner / technician forum, that posters generally know what they're talking about.

John, As you well know, That section at the top of the bass bridge or bottom of the tenor, especially in a small grand, is especially prone to they kind of issue described.

If I was suspecting new strings as having an issue, I might twist them as much as 2 entire turns, in the direction of the wrap if I suspected unusually loose windings.

There is a well known string maker that has recommended 2 to 3 entire twists in the bichords. I have not used him in several years though.

Check to be sure the ends of the core under the copper are swedged and in good condition.

I just read in the piano forum a thread about bad sounding bass strings.

I may be combining stories in my head as I respond ...

Old Age ... Not pretty

Ha Ha Larry ..... I know how you feel ..... Having been fit and well, and never having to see a doctor in decades .... today I get a letter from a specialist who signs himself " Consultant in Stroke Medicine/ Elderly Care" after a little scare I had a week or two back!

All this vast experience in the trade .... and now it seems I'm going to the dogs !!! As you say Larry " Old age ..... Not pretty "

Anne, I don't know if you ordered from the same place as I did recently but the copper winding had come right off of the helix on one of the strings I got. They replaced it but I'm out of luck for the service call.

Anne,

Who provided the string maker with the dimensions of the strings to reproduce? Your measurements, or did you send him the strings for him to determine the core/wrap etc?

Also, does the winding run up too close or perhaps too far from from the agraffe/bridge pin in relation to the other strings.

I'm assuming they are not universal bass strings...??

Jim Ialeggio

Thanks for all the suggestions. In fact the strings are not well matched... but I assumed that would only affect tuning the unisons, which frankly were no worse than the other pairs in that area. (It is not a great-sounding piano. But it gets played a lot.) And yes I was able to send one of the old ones for duplication.

Thomson, I'll PM you re supplier.

Yes, Anne, have your stringwinder make another pair. Inform them that the strings they sent were mismatched and dead.

Let your stringwinder be the final arbiter of how many half turns they recommend for their strings.

As Johnkie says, up to half a turn is standard.
A further half turn or two will help liven an older string. Normally, more than 3 half turns and the string will become dull and rattly again. New strings where the maker asks 2 turns are beyond my experience.

I have heard it said that a good string will bounce around when dropped on a concrete floor. A dead one will not bounce.

From Gregor Heller;

Dear Dan!

We recommend to twist the strings 1 1/2 turns ( 1 + 1/2 ) clockwise.
The double wounded strings only 1/2 turn clockwise.

Cheers!
Gregor


www.hellerbass.de

Yes Dan, the same, I forget about the half turn, in fact it is done because of the insertion of the pin, if not it would be twisted in the opposite direction which is not recommended. But the reason not to twist more the double wound is that there is 2 winding directions (he told me).

Cheers

PS never had top send back a string to Gregor, they are always very good and precise. And I like the measurement method, to order from the web or by mail. (it is unnecessary to measure all the thicknesses, a few on the beginning and at the end of the series are enough, unless you want to compute and order precise dimensions)

Hi Isaac,
Yes only half turn on the double wound strings. I like to order process from HellerBass; very fast and easy to measure the A’s and B’s and send the orders. Very high quality product he has there. Never had a problem here either.