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Maybe I was tempting fate but... I have a tech here right now servicing my piano and as he is tuning I was reading through posts here about string breakage. And...you guessed it: POP! and "uh-oh" from the living room.
I do NOT in any way, shape, or form hold him responsible. As a matter of fact, considering the age of my piano (1920s Chickering Quarter Grand) I am amazed that in it's 5 prior tunings in the near two years I have owned it that this is the first string to go. It was just its time.
My question is this: the tech has suggested not replacing the string. It is a single strung, plain-wire string in the tenor section, somewhere in the octave below C4 (he's still tuning and I don't want to go peer over his shoulder to get the exact note) and the other two strings in the unison tuned fine. The tech has suggested that the cost of replacing the string, since it needs to be threaded under the bass strings, and then the cost of the resulting trips back out to settle the new string into its tuning will likely be more than I really should invest in the piano and more than likely, with the way this piano is played (I'm not hard on it, and it's in a small room) that I will not notice it missing.
So - have I found someone being frank with me or is he trying to avoid the job to stay on schedule today? This man is new to me, the tech who had been servicing the piano dropped off the face of the earth and I found this gentleman through the local piano tech guild listings. I tend to believe him, but thought I'd just check with the experts! Thanks!
Collector of sheet music I can't play.
Chickering & Sons Quarter Grand (rebuilt 2021)
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The problem with replacing a single steel string is more to do with it going out of tune so quickly. You can leave it as it is, providing that the damper is still operating correctly on that note. The other option would be to replace it now, and ask the tuner whether it would be possible to wedge the new string in such a way so that you are left with 2 notes that have only 2 strings each that sound. If that is possible, then it would only result in 2 notes that may sound slightly quieter than the rest, but will give the new string the chance to stretch (and go horribly out of tune) .... without you noticing it, because it will be dampened off. That way it wouldn't cause problems, and re-tuning it could wait until his next tuning visit.
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If there are still two strings working, and you think you could tolerate the note sounding slightly different to the others around it, then I'd take the point of view that he's saving you a bit of money that could be used for a re-string some time in the future - if you feel you'd like to invest more in this piano... Hope that helps!
That's a very good suggestion from Johnkie - like it...
Last edited by Adypiano; 06/08/12 02:30 PM.
Started work at the Blüthner piano re-building workshop in Perivale, UK, in 1989. Self employed since 2000. Learning something new about pianos every day... #hamiltonpianos http://www.hamiltonpianos.com/
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I think he's giving you reasonable advice. That string will be a bear to replace, so it ought to be expensive, and you may well not notice it. You might ask him to demonstrate what he means after he's finished, to see if you really won;t notice the difference.
It's also something that can always be done in the future, and it won't make any difference in the expense.
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I also second what Johnkie said.
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Can it not be spliced? If it broke at the coil, it is a 7 minute repair. If not, it takes maybe 10 minutes to put in a new string. I don't understand what problem a competent tech would have with this. The Quarter Grands are small and easy to work with. Regards,
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the last and probable best solution is to see if the piano could not have new strings installed at some point, as breaking strings in the low medium is not a good sign..
I will change all treble strings on a somewhat old Kaway in a pianists home in the near future. one day's work for the strings, (lets say 1 and a few hours) a few tunings later. But those are accessible strings and a grand piano. On a vertical, and on an old pîano one have to evaluate the scaling, the job is more complicated, but the job itself of installing new strings/tuning pin is not to be considered as a so long task.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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Well, we just finished up. He left it to me to decide and I opted at this point to not replace it. We both played it, and honestly I really don't notice it missing. It was an admittedly quick test and I might hear it when I sit down for my long practice session this afternoon. He said he would be more than happy to schedule a return visit very soon if it does begin to bug me. It did break at the coil, but we both felt splicing may not work because of the age and probable brittleness of the strings. Someday a restringing will happen, but this schoolteacher needs to save a while for that! I must say that this tech put the nicest tuning I've had on the piano! He used an Accu-Tuner, where my previous tech used some sort of app on his iPhone. Lunch and then I have the whole afternoon to play on a fresh tuning. Heaven! And better yet as our homeowner's insurance is picking up the tab for this visit. We had a wildfire go through our neighborhood a few months ago; our home was singed but spared (although our two outbuildings - and all the contents - all of our fencing and landscaping burned.) We had to be thoroughly cleaned inside and have the attic insulation and two melted windows replaced. Now that the dust has settled, so to speak, from getting the big stuff taken care of, I could look to having the piano serviced to remove the dust and settled ash. I was not about to let the home cleaning service touch the piano, and they were happy about that. The piano was a bit dirty, but no permanent harm, still only smells like old piano, not smoke, and I am very pleased about that! Thank you all for your expert advice.
Collector of sheet music I can't play.
Chickering & Sons Quarter Grand (rebuilt 2021)
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Thei
the insurance paid 65%ofthe bil including new strings. They cannpt be cleaned correctly. New hammers too. the heat. .. etc. if the insurance cover the piano.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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If there was any way I could get State Farm to restring the piano without crossing into insurance fraud, I'd do it. But our interior damage was extremely minor, not even approaching the level of "damage." A thorough housecleaning and a couple of carpet cleaning sessions has taken care of us. Although, our insurance adjuster plays and was VERY sympathetic, hmmmm....
Collector of sheet music I can't play.
Chickering & Sons Quarter Grand (rebuilt 2021)
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The situation was different, a fire was under a window of the room. The difficulty was to value the piaro who was yet in bad condition, but could be compared with a odern piano of adequate quality. They used some formula to compute how much of the repair they take.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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I would have spliced or replaced. That hammer is going to wear unevenly now with a string missing. If it broke at the coil, splicing would have taken minutes, plus the string is already stretched so would have been relatively stable.
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Jeanie, If your happy with the service then all is well and fine but I wouldn't want you to think that it's a common practice to break a string in the middle of the piano and not replace it. Maybe in the high treble where the notes are hardly played, but the mid range...
It takes about 15 minutes. It's true that it would have to be fed under the bass strings but hey, that's what we do.
Piano Technician www.pianotech.ca Piano tuners make the world a better place, one string at a time.
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Folks,
I'm with Ed Foote on this one. My first thought, especially with an older piano, is always to splice the string. New wire will never quite match in tuning that unison.
New wire will be a different alloy, new is also more flexible than old; those two factors will insure it will always sound 'off'. Replacing that string would be my last option....and I might want to do all three to get a better match.
Newer pianos? No sweat, put in a new wire! But, an older Chickering? I would work hard to keep that original wire in place. Bass or treble.
Given light use, and looking at expense vs. result, I'd back the tech's decision to not replace; but I would probably have given a splice a shot before crossing it off and pulling it out. Easy to say, right? But we weren't there...and the tech gave her the options and reasons. So, I'm gonna back her tech on this one.
Yr. mileage may vary, I remain, Yr. humble and ob't svt.,
Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT Oregon Coast Piano Services TunerJeff440@aol.com
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It did break at the coil, but we both felt splicing may not work because of the age and probable brittleness of the strings. If it didn't work, what would be lost besides 10 minutes of his time?
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[quote ]It did break at the coil, but we both felt splicing may not work because of the age and probable brittleness of the strings.
Greetings, The wire broke at the coil because that is the point of maximum stress coupled with the minimum effective diameter. The bend around the pin stresses the outer circumference of the wire enough to create micro-fissures, reducing its cross-sectional area. This weakening is then subjected to the maximum amount of tension, sometimes far greater than the speaking length, ( think about overcoming the friction on a wide, corroded, span of understring felt).
If these two factors conspire sufficiently, the wire breaks right at the coil, leaving a perfect end for splicing, since the weakness is at a very specific point in the wire, and a splice would be beyond it.
Clean splices are always appreciated. Nasty, lopsided, twisted ones over scratched up plate finishes are not. If someone has reservations about getting into it, and the string is not essential, I think it is better to not try the repair. Regards,
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I would have gone for a splice too. On a Story & Clark studio that I tuned today, you know the kind, the ones with a nice BIG angle on the bass wires from the pressure bar up to the tuning pins? Well, a couple of years one of the bass wires broke during a pitch raise. I spliced it and it came out fine, sounds great and it works like a charm. I was admiring how nice the splice looked today while I tuned it again.
Jerry Groot RPT Piano Technicians Guild Grand Rapids, Michigan www.grootpiano.comWe love to play BF2.
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Folks,
I'm with Ed Foote on this one. My first thought, especially with an older piano, is always to splice the string. New wire will never quite match in tuning that unison.
New wire will be a different alloy, new is also more flexible than old; those two factors will insure it will always sound 'off'. Replacing that string would be my last option....and I might want to do all three to get a better match.
Newer pianos? No sweat, put in a new wire! But, an older Chickering? I would work hard to keep that original wire in place. Bass or treble.
Given light use, and looking at expense vs. result, I'd back the tech's decision to not replace; but I would probably have given a splice a shot before crossing it off and pulling it out. Easy to say, right? But we weren't there...and the tech gave her the options and reasons. So, I'm gonna back her tech on this one.
Yr. mileage may vary, I remain, Yr. humble and ob't svt., This ^^ As Jeff says, none of us were there. And it sounds like in all other respects he did a good job. Having done more than a few looped plain wire strings under the bass section myself, I contend it can be difficult at times.
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I never leave home without my Stringer II! Pianotek carries it, plus many techs "homebrew" their own. Invaluable tool. Even the toughest understring string replacement is a breeze. http://www.pianoteksupply.com/assets/pdf/instructions/Stringer%20II%20Instructions.pdf
Last edited by Loren D; 06/09/12 07:45 AM. Reason: added link for Stringer instructions
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I once had a mechanic break a tire bolt off of one of my tires when trying to get it off. When I was done and paid the bill, I went out to the parking lot to notice that the tire only had 3 bolts on it instead of four.
I went back in to ask about it and was told not to worry, 3 bolts are more than enough to hold the tire in place. And also, replacing it would cost extra money and time.
I'm not being smart, this is a true story that actually happened to me.
Now how's it sound?
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
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