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Topic Options
#1911651 - 06/10/12 11:11 PM Kawai ES7
vegasE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 226
Loc: Sydney, AU
A few local stores have started advertising the ES7 for sale.

http://www.kawai.co.jp/ep/products/es7/

That means MP6/10 successors are on their way?

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#1911659 - 06/10/12 11:40 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Courtesy of Google Translate, here are the specs:

ES7 Digital Piano Specifications

/ Ivory White / Gloss Black exterior
Stereo-sampled piano sound source key / Progressive Harmonic Imaging sound source 88
Responsive Hammer Action II keys / keyboard 88
(Depending on the tone) sound / maximum polyphony of 256
Total of 32 tone / tone number
X 2 character LCD display line / 16 (LCD)
Built-in Tune [all songs / 27 (demo songs) built-in song details ]
The number of sound memory / 2 x 10 part song, approximately 90,000 sound
/ 15W × 2 Output
(Not including music stand cm ·) size / 136.5 x 36.5 x 15.0
/ 22.0kg weight



Looks like it's just PHI (not UPHI), but with increased polyphony and a modified action. (I wonder if the keys have been strengthened or modified near the pivot point???)
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1911700 - 06/11/12 03:22 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: voxpops]
vegasE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 226
Loc: Sydney, AU
Good work VP. Limited effort (on my part) posting on a mobile device - PW is not iphone friendly.
OT, the same dealers are listing the CA63/93 as "end of model pianos...new models coming".

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#1911708 - 06/11/12 04:37 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 723
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Here's an automatic translation from that same Japanese Kawai site:

The natural touch feeling more close to the grand piano, "Responsive Hammer Action" has gained a high reputation. In ES7, was equipped with a "Responsive Hammer Action II" the latest action mechanism to evolve it further. That the expressive power play is much improved in that sense more fine-grained movement of the keyboard, in tolyl and roll, as well as the grand piano, while leaving the sound of the sound before, to represent the overlap of the rich sound it becomes possible beneath.

In addition, the mechanism of this action Kawai imagination who knows the piano has to go everywhere. For example, the operating angle of the hammer has the structure close to the piano. In addition, the movement of the keyboard provide stable performance in a variety of touch by the large chassis. Bang, also increases the control of weak strokes, and has realized the grand piano touch feeling close to high total performance.
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#1911711 - 06/11/12 04:42 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 723
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Again from the website. Here's a picture of the current RH action:


And here's a picture of the new RH II action:


I can't see any structural difference between both actions, it is in fact probably one and same photographed image, so unless that's a wrong image for the RH II action, I suppose mechanically they are same. It would be interesting if James could spread some light regarding the new features of RH II keyboard compared to RH.


Edited by CyberGene (06/11/12 04:44 AM)
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#1911716 - 06/11/12 05:22 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: vegasE
A few local stores have started advertising the ES7 for sale.

http://www.kawai.co.jp/ep/products/es7/

That means MP6/10 successors are on their way?



Not necessarily. The ES6 was launched almost 4 years ago - the MP6/MP10 still have plenty of life in them.

Originally Posted By: CyberGene
It would be interesting if James could spread some light regarding the new features of RH II keyboard compared to RH.


I'm afraid I cannot comment on instruments that have yet to be formally announced by Kawai's overseas subsidiaries.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1911739 - 06/11/12 07:05 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
IMOL Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 81
Kawai, if in such a short time has already produced a new version RH2, it suggests that perhaps some difettuccio was present in the RH1

or is it just a publicity stunt (which I agree), and that is substantially the same mechanical (as for AHA4 E and F)

rds

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#1911824 - 06/11/12 10:37 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Having had to repair the keys on both an MP5 and an MP6, I was struck by a significant difference. In the MP5, when subject to stress, the keys would simply pop out of their sockets at the pivot point, and they could be snapped back into place easily. In the MP6, the keys, when subject to similar stresses, cannot become unseated in this way, and so would break at the weakest point (the "neck", just below the pivot). This would be a sensible place to modify the RH action.

Reading the translated marketing blurb, it almost seems to suggest that there might be a third sensor: "to represent the overlap of the rich sound it becomes possible beneath." Anybody care to hazard a guess as to what might be going on here?
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1911864 - 06/11/12 11:34 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
IMOL Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 81
Exactly voxpop,
in this case would be a great evolution (but not mechanical).

need to better understand the translation in Japanese

To be precise, what needs improvement in RH is just the touch sensitivity typical of grand pianos.
If I hit the key of an acoustic piano without sinking the key, the sound comes out.
In MP6 you have to turn down the key almost completely.

and therefore my acustic piano is faster than MP6
I do not know how to explain

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#1912083 - 06/11/12 09:17 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: IMOL]
willie. Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 2
Originally Posted By: IMOL
To be precise, what needs improvement in RH is just the touch sensitivity typical of grand pianos.
If I hit the key of an acoustic piano without sinking the key, the sound comes out.
In MP6 you have to turn down the key almost completely.

and therefore my acustic piano is faster than MP6
I do not know how to explain

As a prospective buyer I'm curious to know if this is something which can be remedied to some extent with the MP6's velocity settings? Through research I remember something about this being improved later in a software update; you're running the latest OS also?

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#1912142 - 06/12/12 01:21 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: voxpops]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Reading the translated marketing blurb, it almost seems to suggest that there might be a third sensor: "to represent the overlap of the rich sound it becomes possible beneath." Anybody care to hazard a guess as to what might be going on here?


A third sensor would be great in a Kawai piano, but it would seem strange to have a third sensor in the relatively low end ES7 while it is missing in the MP6, MP10, and CA line. I guess they could add a third sensor to the CA line and then just have their stage pianos strangely missing a third sensor, like Yamaha does.

Kawai hasn't been completely linear about the evolution of their actions. For example, the new CE220 uses the old (and I thought completely out of production) AWA Pro II action.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that RHII is just a very slightly reweighted version of RH, just as AWA Pro II was apparently a reweighting of AWA Pro. They look the same, but marketing can say it allows for better repeition or better dynamics or almost anything. If it were a major change like a third sensor or different geometry, I think they would give it a new name, rather than a new version number.

Anyway that's my guess.


Edited by gvfarns (06/12/12 01:29 AM)

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#1913632 - 06/14/12 07:31 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: gvfarns]
vegasE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 226
Loc: Sydney, AU
Pictures and a bit of verbal guff only (the spec pdf link doesnt work).

http://www.kawai.net.au/digital/ES7

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#1913638 - 06/14/12 07:41 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
So yes, we have RH with a third sensor. That's great...

...And it's also good to know that we've apparently attained nirvana in the DP world. Nothing that is here now can rival "The World's Most Advanced Portable Piano," and, clearly, nothing to come in the future can ever surpass such "portable piano perfection!"

Marketing execs - what would we ever do without them? wink
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1913644 - 06/14/12 07:47 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
ozzienovice Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Originally Posted By: vegasE
Pictures and a bit of verbal guff only (the spec pdf link doesnt work).

http://www.kawai.net.au/digital/ES7



http://www.kawai.net.au/digital/ES7
Check the above Australian Kawai web page. The only digitals shown in the CA section are CA-13 and ES7. The CA-63/93 have been removed. Awaiting new model details to be loaded I assume.

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#1913648 - 06/14/12 07:52 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: voxpops]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Marketing execs - what would we ever do without them? wink


I thought 'portable piano perfection' was quite a nice line, personally...

Well, the brochure and owner's manuals will be online by the end of the day (Japan time), so you've plenty of time to get those knives sharpened.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1913649 - 06/14/12 07:58 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
vegasE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 226
Loc: Sydney, AU
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Marketing execs - what would we ever do without them? wink


I thought 'portable piano perfection' was quite a nice line, personally...

Well, the brochure and owner's manuals will be online by the end of the day (Japan time), so you've plenty of time to get those knives sharpened.

Cheers,
James
x


We will be looking for those spelling errors.
The knives are still sharp. Only require a quick wipe from the V-itriol thread.

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#1913650 - 06/14/12 07:59 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Interesting to note that there is something new in the application of resonance (for "unparalleled acoustic realism"). I'm curious to know how this will actually affect the PHI sound.

Also, since this version of PHI captures "every nuance of Kawai’s worldrenowned EX concert grand piano," it obviously makes UPHI redundant.

Oh well, a hyper-real, hyperbole-ridden world clearly makes the mundane reality more palatable.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1913652 - 06/14/12 08:02 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
Sorry James, I had a suspicion you might have been involved with the blurb. But I speak with forked tongue, as I've written plenty of that stuff in my time. Today, I'm like one of those irritating reformed smokers.

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#1913658 - 06/14/12 08:13 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
No need to apologise. All feedback is welcome - it keeps me on my toes. wink
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1913666 - 06/14/12 08:31 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
.


Edited by voxpops (06/14/12 11:07 PM)
Edit Reason: A little too sarcastic to stay!
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1913678 - 06/14/12 08:57 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Today, I'm like one of those irritating reformed smokers.


Amen.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1913685 - 06/14/12 09:17 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
ozzienovice Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Victoria, Australia
voxpops,

Not a bad attempt at rewriting the Aussie Kawai ES7 release blurb, but for our local audience it might start with .....

Regardless of whether you’re playing a gig on stage, practising for a recital at home, accompanying the local church choir, cooking shrimps on the barbie or knocking back a couple pf cold tinnies, the new Kawai ES7 is portable.....

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#1913720 - 06/14/12 10:47 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
Well I guess Aussies can no longer say they don't get the new Kawai models. They now have both the ES7 and the CA13, both of which are too desirable to sell in America. At least they don't have the CS9.

I really don't understand not marketing each available piano in every target country, but then I've never sold pianos.

Regarding the ES7, that is interesting indeed. Looks like it's time to hop through and replace all the actions with triple sensor versions. I wonder how much difference it will end up making. It seems like opinions on that matter are pretty mixed with the triple sensor actions we have now.


Edited by gvfarns (06/14/12 10:51 PM)

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#1913727 - 06/14/12 10:58 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3707
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
That revised blurb gave me a good chuckle, Vox. Nice work. thumb

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#1913736 - 06/14/12 11:13 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: ozzienovice]
vegasE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 226
Loc: Sydney, AU
Originally Posted By: ozzienovice
voxpops,

Not a bad attempt at rewriting the Aussie Kawai ES7 release blurb, but for our local audience it might start with .....

Regardless of whether you’re playing a gig on stage, practising for a recital at home, accompanying the local church choir, cooking shrimps on the barbie or knocking back a couple pf cold tinnies, the new Kawai ES7 is portable.....


Prawns...not shrimp.

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#1913750 - 06/14/12 11:50 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: gvfarns]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
At least they don't have the CS9.


They (Kawai Australia) do. It appears that there are some problems with their website at the moment.
I've informed the admins, so expect the issue to be resolved shortly.

Cheers,
James
x

EDIT: Looks like the models are back online.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1913771 - 06/15/12 01:02 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 723
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
So, we have RH 2 which seems to be RH with a third sensor added. That's great since I found RH to really has slow repetition compared to RM3 and other keyboard action. Not a big issue for me personally but I applaud the decision to perfect the RH. It is now probably an action which is among the best in its class. Congratulations to Kawai. And I hope they don't release MP7 with that action for at least one year because I will feel really screwed up with my recent MP6 purchase laugh Just kidding wink


Edited by CyberGene (06/15/12 01:02 AM)
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#1913774 - 06/15/12 01:12 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Okay chaps, I uploaded the ES7 brochure and owner's manual to the Kawai Japan 'Worldwide' site.

The ES7 model page is also live on the Kawai Australia site too.

Feel free to start a new thread to discuss the features and improvements. wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1913925 - 06/15/12 09:51 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
I've had a brief look at the manual and specs. The ES7 looks like a very nice package overall.

I really like that it comes in under 50lbs. It's heavy, but not grotesquely so for a slab with speakers. For comparison, it's around 4lbs lighter than the FP-7F.

Talking of the 7F, this seems to be pitched squarely at that same slot in the marketplace. RHII, with its third sensor, will be a direct rival for PHAIII. There have been a few times when I have wished for that additional sensor in my MP6, and now Kawai has a plastic action that should be at least on a par with Roland's best.

Sounds seem to be the most useful ones from the selection offered in the MP6. If PHI has not been upgraded since the MP6, then I'm a little disappointed, as I believe there is no need to differentiate DPs by the quality of sample offered - software and memory are cheap enough these days. That said, the current EPs, for example, are very good, and it's possible that there has been some enhancement to the AP sound, although it will probably take a side-by-side comparison to check that out. (Edit: there's also an amp simulator selection in the ES - very nice!!! Plus, compared to the MP6, there are some additional piano parameters that can be adjusted, such as fallback delay.)

I really like the form-factor of the ES. I appreciate having built-in speakers in a stage piano, particularly for low-key gigs in smaller venues. I also like the very simple, uncluttered and intuitive layout. If the sounds were any improvement over the MP6, I'd seriously consider getting an ES7.


Edited by voxpops (06/15/12 12:20 PM)
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#1914612 - 06/16/12 04:51 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
chicolom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 69
So, the difference between RH and RH II is bascially just the third sensor? The structure and weighting are the same?
_________________________
Kawai MP6 | Ravenscroft 275 | True Keys American & Italian | Galaxy Vintage D, II, & Giant | Old Black Grand | Imperfect Fazioli

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#1914637 - 06/16/12 06:02 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Yes.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1914644 - 06/16/12 06:25 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
chicolom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 69
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Yes.


Cool, thanks James.
_________________________
Kawai MP6 | Ravenscroft 275 | True Keys American & Italian | Galaxy Vintage D, II, & Giant | Old Black Grand | Imperfect Fazioli

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#1914654 - 06/16/12 06:36 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
Dude, I'm so glad you are here, James, and can take things out of the realm of speculation. We pretty much think the same thing is true with GH and GHE but without official word we may never know.

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#1914681 - 06/16/12 08:42 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Well, I expect there may be other tweaks here and there that the R&D didn't tell me about, however the switch to a 3-sensor system is the main improvement.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1914688 - 06/16/12 09:23 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
KLSinCT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 148
Loc: Stonington, CT USA
When will this new ES7 be available in the USA? (I just checked the website of my nearest Kawai dealer and didn't see it listed there.)

Now I'm having second thoughts about buying the CE220.... confused

Cheers,

Kevin
_________________________
Kevin L. Spindler
Early Keyboard Instruments
Stonington, CT
Harpsichords & Clavichords
Custom Instruments Built to Order
Rebuilding, Repair & Restoration
http://www.facebook.com/kevin.spindler.129

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#1914711 - 06/16/12 10:45 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: KLSinCT]
ONfrank Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 98
Originally Posted By: KLSinCT
When will this new ES7 be available in the USA? (I just checked the website of my nearest Kawai dealer and didn't see it listed there.)

Now I'm having second thoughts about buying the CE220.... confused

Cheers,

Kevin


Forget that! When's the MP6 replacement coming? laugh

Any year now!

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#1915696 - 06/19/12 11:32 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
KHen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 183
Loc: North America
OnFrank the MP6 is still a new instrument and it will likely not see a successor for another 2 years or so.

Back OT though, I think the ES7 looks great. A little disappointed about the PHI instead of UPHI though. I really liked the ES6 when I demoed one and I think this one will be better than it. I'm really looking forward to this piano.

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#1916853 - 06/21/12 05:11 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: KHen]
KLSinCT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 148
Loc: Stonington, CT USA
Greetings all!

I emailed Kawai America last evening and asked when the new ES7 was going to be available here in the States and got the following response:

Greetings

Thanks for your interest in the new ES7. It is a terrific instrument. We'll be shipping the ES7 to our dealers sometime next week. Please check with your local dealer about their intentions to stock this new product.

Best regards,

Tom Love
Sr. Director of Online Marketing and Electronics
Kawai America & Kawai Canada

Web: http://www.kawaius.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kawai-America-Corporation/107626515984210
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/PianosByKawai
Online store: http://www.shopatron.com/home/index/1772.0.1.1

contact info -
800-421-2177 ext. 238
425-675-0853 fax

mailing address -
2055 E. University Dr.
Rancho Dominguez, CA 90220

I guess I'll have to make another trip up to New Hampshire to see and play this new model as the Kawai dealer here in CT doesn't stock any of the digitals....*grumble* mad

Cheers,

Kevin
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#1917952 - 06/24/12 07:26 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Tom Love recently wrote an insightful blog post detailing the main improvements to the ES7, here.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
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Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1918057 - 06/24/12 12:07 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
KLSinCT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 148
Loc: Stonington, CT USA
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Tom Love recently wrote an insightful blog post detailing the main improvements to the ES7, here.

Cheers,
James
x


Hi James,

Thank you for posting this info! I'll contact the Kawai dealer in New Hampshire this week to find out when they'll have an ES7 in stock to try.

Cheers,

Kevin
_________________________
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Early Keyboard Instruments
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Harpsichords & Clavichords
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Rebuilding, Repair & Restoration
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#1919312 - 06/27/12 07:46 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
IMOL Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 81
I checked the DEMO ES7.
It seems that the piano sounds Concert Grand, Studio and EP are the same as MP6.
Could you confirm, James?

ES7 is a great digital piano. I'm sure it will be a great success.

I'd be curious to see how the 3 sensors are positioned in RH2.
If there were any of the images (as per Casio)
it would be interesting

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#1919317 - 06/27/12 07:55 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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IMOL, yes the main MP6 sounds form the basis of the ES7's sounds. However the ES7 uses a new, more powerful DSP, with redeveloped reverb, effects, amp sim, resonances etc. and higher spec DACs, so the overall sound quality should be superior to the MP6.

The RH2 action's triple-sensor switch is located in the same position as for the original RH action.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
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Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1919673 - 06/27/12 06:46 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
Good Keys Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 3
I sure hope the new action will not be clicky or noisy?

A few people have reported on youtube (sometimes in comments) about clicking sound from a few keys on MP6
Kawai MP6 key click noise
Particularly his F5 key is clicky.

It is even worse on ES6 according to comments in German here
Testbericht Kawai ES6 Digital Piano
But ES6 used the AHA IV-F action that I guess is cheaper than RH II used in the ES7 model.

Most other keybed even the best from other brands seem to be a lot noisier overall (high thump noise when the keys get hit even on Rolands top model PHA III).
You can clearly hear them here
Zelda Link's awakening- Mabe village (sur roland hp 507)
and here
petite compo sur roland hp 507
That is one reason why i am so interested in KAWAI ES7. smile
Another is that I like light relatively firm and pianolike keys.

I am looking for a lightweight portable Midi master keyboard that is piano like so the ES7 is a perfect fit.
The stand look good and i do want pedals.
The ES7 has it as options. smile

Also it is probably not too expensive I hope. smile
Many seem to like the RH I keys in MP6 (predecessor keys to RH II) more than your RM3 Grand (MP10) keys.
Here is just one of these guys
Review: Kawai MP6 Stage Piano
Note that he also says the keys feel better than Yamaha ones he has tried.
I have heard another reviewer that said he really liked the MP6 keys very much.

So as long as the quality is good enough (no issues) I will probably buy the ES7.

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#1919689 - 06/27/12 07:21 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
EssBrace Offline
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Looks like the ES7 is going to win many new friends for Kawai. Seems like a very well conceived upgrade to me.
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#1919709 - 06/27/12 07:48 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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Good Keys, I can appreciate your concerns about clicking keys.

My Nord Electro has a very loud, clicking/creaking keyboard action. This is perhaps to be expected given the board's light weight, however it can be a little off-putting when playing at low volume in my room.

That said, I honestly don't believe the Kawai actions have a problem with clicking keys. Of course, you may read the odd negative report, or stumble upon a YouTube video that highlights an issue, however the same could be said for all manufacturer's instruments. If a key does develop a click over time, it's usually due to a lack of grease, and this is a simple job for a technician to resolve. Generally speaking, however, the Kawai actions are quiet and reliable.

By the way, thanks for posting the MP6 review on YouTube - it's always interesting for me to watch folks reviewing their instruments and explaining the motivation for a purchase. I thought the guy could have perhaps gone into greater detail about the various settings to adjust the sound (Virtual Technician, effects, reverb, amp sim, etc.), but perhaps he hadn't gotten stuck into those features when the video was made?

Oh, I think I almost got a name check too. wink

Anyway, to return to the ES7, I'm very positive about this new model - there's so much to like about it: really great action, excellent sounds, lots of features, etc. And of course, the manual is a work of art. wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1919716 - 06/27/12 07:55 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
EssBrace Offline
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Registered: 12/01/09
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Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
And of course, the manual is a work of art. wink


Yes. It. Is.

A masterpiece. I'm keeping my copy so my descendants can take it along to a future series of the Antiques Roadshow.
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#1919721 - 06/27/12 08:04 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: EssBrace]
Kawai James Online   content
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Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
And of course, the manual is a work of art. wink


Yes. It. Is.


Well, fingers and toes crossed for this year's International Owner's Manual Awards. The ES7 documentation is nominated along with the Panasonic MK-5076 and Zanussi ZWH6160P. Suffice to say it's a tough year.
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#1919727 - 06/27/12 08:17 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
EssBrace Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Well, fingers and toes crossed for this year's International Owner's Manual Awards. The ES7 documentation is nominated along with the Panasonic MK-5076 and Zanussi ZWH6160P. Suffice to say it's a tough year.


Oh yeah, I forgot about the Zanussi. Great little manual that. I think the Karcher 110 bar pressure washer was a worthy effort too - the way it talks about those different nozzles is very insightful. But I still think you'll shade them James.
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#1919918 - 06/28/12 06:41 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
greekpianist1 Offline
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Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Greece
Well, I'm considering this piano, but I don't know when it will be available in my country, so if someone has tested the ES7, or will test it in the near future, I would appreciate some feedback about the sound (quality, effects and so on) the feel (touch) and its functions.

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#1920131 - 06/28/12 01:52 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
gvfarns Offline
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Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
It will feature the same action (with an extra sensor for quick repetition) and same basic sounds (with improved processing) as the MP6, which is a much beloved piano. As far as I know no one here has tested one yet, but based on what we know about it, we can be pretty confident that it will be a winner.

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#1920651 - 06/29/12 03:15 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
Good Keys Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 3
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Good Keys, I can appreciate your concerns about clicking keys.

My Nord Electro has a very loud, clicking/creaking keyboard action. This is perhaps to be expected given the board's light weight, however it can be a little off-putting when playing at low volume in my room.

That said, I honestly don't believe the Kawai actions have a problem with clicking keys. Of course, you may read the odd negative report, or stumble upon a YouTube video that highlights an issue, however the same could be said for all manufacturer's instruments. If a key does develop a click over time, it's usually due to a lack of grease, and this is a simple job for a technician to resolve. Generally speaking, however, the Kawai actions are quiet and reliable.

By the way, thanks for posting the MP6 review on YouTube - it's always interesting for me to watch folks reviewing their instruments and explaining the motivation for a purchase. I thought the guy could have perhaps gone into greater detail about the various settings to adjust the sound (Virtual Technician, effects, reverb, amp sim, etc.), but perhaps he hadn't gotten stuck into those features when the video was made?

Oh, I think I almost got a name check too. wink

Anyway, to return to the ES7, I'm very positive about this new model - there's so much to like about it: really great action, excellent sounds, lots of features, etc. And of course, the manual is a work of art. wink

Cheers,
James
x

Thank you. Yes I think you are right about the grease.

I have decided I do not want a Fatar keybed (found in Nord, Kurzweil and Numa keyboards i think).

Interesting you have clicking/creaking experiences of your Nord. All keyboards seems to have it to some degree.

Now I almost can't wait for the ES7 to be available here in Sweden. Please ship it to Thomann (reseller) as soon as possible. smile
The ES7 just must be a BIG Success.

And yes the guy making the MP6 review must be talking about you Kawai James although he doesn't really say your "name".

I had to look at you playing on your Nord Electro 3 with your band. Clicked your link "occasional rare groove player".
I must say I am impressed of the whole band. I really like your music. Especially the quality of the sounds from your instruments and how you all perform.

I bet somebody will accuse me of being a Kawai representative now. These things tend to happen to me with all these trolls out there.

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#1920656 - 06/29/12 03:20 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
spanishbuddha Offline
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Registered: 11/08/09
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Loc: UK
Good keys sounds like a Kawai shill to me wink

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#1920687 - 06/29/12 04:11 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Good Keys]
gvfarns Offline
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Registered: 04/16/07
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Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Good Keys
I bet somebody will accuse me of being a Kawai representative now. These things tend to happen to me with all these trolls out there.


Haha, it's like I said to that one knucklehead a few days ago: accusations (and maybe the event of) someone being a shill are very common in the piano forum, not so common here. I guess because retailers are more promiscuous, selling lots of brands of digital products at the same time? Dunno.

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#1920793 - 06/29/12 06:34 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Good Keys, thank you for the compliment about the band's playing.

That live gig was pretty good fun, with a great atmosphere...although I made quite a few mistakes throughout!

I'll pass on your comments to the other chaps in the band too - who are all Yamaha employees, by the way. wink

Cheers,
James (in transit in Singapore)
x
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#1920810 - 06/29/12 06:49 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
EssBrace Offline
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Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2426
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Cheers,
James (in transit in Singapore)
x


India awaits. You'll soon be "elbows on knees" for hours on end so take a good book into the toilet James. A certain part of your anatomy might resemble the Japanese flag in a few day's time. I'm a glass half-empty kind of guy, in case you were wondering.

Cheers,

Steve
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#1923126 - 07/05/12 06:45 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: EssBrace]
Mar_red Offline
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Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 15
Loc: Poland
Now Kawai ES-7 can be bought at Thomann for 1368 €.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/kawai_es_7_b.htm

The price is almost identical as for Kawai MP-6 - 1379 €.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/kawai_mp6.htm

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#1923168 - 07/05/12 08:43 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
emenelton Online   content
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Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 559
Wouldn't the graded action be an improvement also. I don't think my ES6s' action is graded. Are the acoustic piano's set of samples different or the same? I have always liked my ES6.

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#1923198 - 07/05/12 10:26 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Stevesie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 45
I wish they'd put some decent demos of the different piano samples on the website. Are the other voices from different pianos or modifications of the concert grand? I don't love the standard Kawai Grand sound from what I've heard so far, it's what I'd describe as "clinical and clean".

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#1923203 - 07/05/12 10:36 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
gvfarns Offline
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Loc: Pennsylvania
I'm sure it's graded in the same way as the RH action in the MP6. The AWA PRO and RM3 actions divide the keyboard into four zones with a weight for each. I suspect RH has the same.

There are only a very few digital pianos with true grading (each of the 88 notes having a different weight).

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#1923212 - 07/05/12 11:06 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
dewster Offline
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Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4366
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Tom Love recently wrote an insightful blog post detailing the main improvements to the ES7, here.

Thanks! From the insightful blog post:

Let’s get a little “techie” for a moment, shall we?

Uh oh.

Kawai R&D engineers have been working on this new TG for a while and the ES7 is the first Kawai instrument to utilize it. This new TG has a lot of horsepower. For instance, the older ES6 had 192-note polyphony, achieved by using two TG’s “slaved” together. The new TG offers 256-note polyphony all by itself. Polyphony is a reference to how many notes an instrument can play simultaneously. Thus, the new ES7 is able to handle a lot more notes being played at once, so note dropout in a complex piece of music is much less of an issue.

Is polyphony so important that it needs to be mentioned first? It's not like everyone's complaining about Kawais dropping notes.

Another major improvement comes in a dramatic increase in DSP processing power. Having more processor power allowed Kawai engineers to completely rewrite the algorithms for the various DSP effects, such as chorus, echo and rotary speaker, and reverbs, greatly enhancing and expanding the ES7’s effects and reverbs.

I do like a nice reverb. Though I wish he had mentioned sympathetic resonance here.

Other important technical improvements include improved digital to audio converters (DACs). This enhances the quality of the sound coming from the speakers and headphones, and through the audio outputs.

I'm not sure I'd make a blanket statement like this. The audibility of modern DAC quality differences is debatable. It's not like they're replacing a 12 bitter or something. Hi res DACs are so cheap there's no reason not to throw half-way decent ones in there.

The ES7’s key action now has a 3-sensor system, which gives the TG better key sensing capability and faster note repetition.

This is the real news IMO. Though I'm not sure what took Kawai so long to catch up to Casio.

Okay, enough tech talk.

Huh? What about the elephant in the room (tiny piano sample sets)? *sigh*
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#1932054 - 07/24/12 11:38 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
Ube Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/24/12
Posts: 2
Loc: Hawaii
Thanks, Kawai James, for your info on the ES7. I've read much of what's online about it yet I'm uncertain how it compares to the MP10. Obviously it has more voices, a newer TG, etc. but does the MP10 have better piano samples?

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#1932058 - 07/24/12 11:47 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Ube,

Yes, the MP10s samples are superior (larger memory allocation), however the ES7's tone generator/DSP is more powerful. Certain elements of the Reverb, Effects, and Virtual Technician parameters will sound more realistic on the ES7.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
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Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1932833 - 07/26/12 06:48 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
sh1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/22/11
Posts: 41
I do find it odd that Kawai wouldn't put their best available sample (ie the MP10) in their latest stage piano model. IIRC the biggest bugbear with the MP6 was the actual piano sound...everybody seemed to love the action and overall functionality, but the doubts were over the slight harshness in the piano tone itself.

Since this is probably the most influential factor in any purchasing decision, this sounds to me like a missed opportunity.

James alludes to the more powerful tone generator/DSP above, but mainly quotes Reverb, Effects etc, which can only cover any tonal issues to a certain degree.

Maybe James could elaborate any whether he thinks the new TG significantly alters the basic piano sound compared to the MP6?

I'm definitely interested in this board, but would like to think it was a definite improvement over the MP6 JUST in terms of piano.

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#1932851 - 07/26/12 07:52 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: sh1
I do find it odd that Kawai wouldn't put their best available sample (ie the MP10) in their latest stage piano model.


The MP10 is a somewhat special board in that it has more memory allocated to piano sounds than any other Kawai instrument. As the flagship stage piano, it's very much intended to be 'the best of the best'.

The ES7 is more of a 'general purpose' instrument, designed to appeal to a much broader audience. Of course, it would have been fantastic to use the MP10s large samples, but this would inevitably have increased manufacturing costs, raising the store price of the instrument. As is stands, I believe the ES7 delivers an excellent package at a very competitive price, and represents a significant upgrade over the previous ES6 model.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1932890 - 07/26/12 10:27 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Stevesie Offline
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Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 45
I'm still looking for my first DP, and I'm considering upping my budget. The ES7 looks like a possibility. James, did I read correctly a post of yours saying that the ES7 doesn't have multiple velocity samples like you would find in other pianos? If I've got that wrong, how many velocities samples are used?

Cheers.

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#1932896 - 07/26/12 10:41 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Stevesie]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Stevesie
James, did I read correctly a post of yours saying that the ES7 doesn't have multiple velocity samples like you would find in other pianos?


I don't recall writing that. The ES7 does indeed feature multiple velocity sampling - I apologise if I have you the impression otherwise.

Originally Posted By: Stevesie
If I've got that wrong, how many velocities samples are used?


I'm afraid that information is a company secret. However, it's more than the ES6, certainly. wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
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Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1932902 - 07/26/12 11:06 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
Stevesie Offline
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Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 45
Cheers James, I found the post and I'd completely misread it. My brain isn't so great these days.

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#1933055 - 07/27/12 08:45 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
I still can't understand how adding a little memory for larger samples would substantially (!) increase manufacturing costs. In 2012 with petabytes of cheap ram, rom, flash rom, Ssd available. Sure dedicated rom as in a hardware instrument is probably more expensive than general flash memory or Ssd , but is that really such a big part of the costs of an instrument ?! I would guess the price of keybed, casing, knobs , sliders, displays , audio hardware have a far bigger impact on price than some small silicon memory module.

But we seem to have crossed this conversation so many times before already, that I think the manufacturers and customers will never understand each other on this little issue. For us (as end users) its all marketing bullocks ; separating the price ranges of instruments in sound quality, although technically and financially it would very well be possible to add better sounds to lower priced instruments without going bankrupt. Makes us (customers ) a little angry at times. If adding more memory really is soooo expensive, why not show or prove how much, so we can understand and agree and skipp this discussion once and for all. Just my thought...

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#1933056 - 07/27/12 08:47 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Still think the es7 is a nice package though ;-) I personally would add sw based instrument anyway, but that shouldn't be necessary...


Edited by JFP (07/27/12 08:48 AM)

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#1933065 - 07/27/12 09:07 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
McBuster Online   content
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Loc: St Paul Minnesota USA
Originally Posted By: JFP
For us (as end users) its all marketing bullocks ; separating the price ranges of instruments in sound quality, although technically and financially it would very well be possible to add better sounds to lower priced instruments without going bankrupt.


The argument is similar to a photographer who charges $750 for a sheet of paper/canvas for a 20x24, yet only $50 for an 8x10. Both from the same negative or digital file.

As I see it, mfgr's and artist's true cost is not in the production of their product, but in the time spent in learning their craft and/or R/D. And, do not forget the Marketing side to life. That too is a bit costly.
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#1933079 - 07/27/12 09:43 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
The point is not whether Kawai charges more for the extra memory allocation, it's that they don't offer it to anyone who can't carry 70lbs! There is no truly portable Kawai piano offered with top-quality samples. That is what grieves me. Roland, Nord and Korg all offer instruments with their best sounds in configurations that one person can manage. Why does Kawai refuse to do this? I just don't understand the rationale.
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#1933112 - 07/27/12 11:20 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: voxpops]
dewster Offline
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Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Roland, Nord and Korg all offer instruments with their best sounds in configurations that one person can manage. Why does Kawai refuse to do this? I just don't understand the rationale.

I read somewhere that a good sounding yet portable Kawai DP is one of the 11 signs of the impending Zombie Apocalypse. So they're actually doing us a huge favor by not offering it (unlike Roland, Nord and Korg, who by this rational obviously don't give a fig about humanity). Sometimes you have to think outside the box in order to make sense of things.
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#1933139 - 07/27/12 12:29 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
As I said before; we are running in circles. We don't understand why Kawai doesn't offer the best sounds in a true portable (mp10 is still a heavy ...) and Kawai keeps on answering that that would make the instrument too expensive, without convincing any of us, why that should be the case. Sure it would add a little to the price, but I'm sure most of the customers would be happy to pay a little extra. That it would make it way more expensive is .....

To me and many others it is quite obvious that that has more to do with marketing / management decisions than the actual technical and/ financial sacrifice that Kawai would have to make. Or we are missing something here, that KAWAI could explain , so we are indeed convinced that it would add soooo substantially to the cost. Anyway I don't want to fall into the same discussion over again, either someone should clear it up, or we should just live with the reallity that KAWAI has a hard time understanding what little extra effort it would take to put an instrument on the market that really blows away the competition in the same price range.

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#1933151 - 07/27/12 01:00 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 03/20/07
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Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: JFP
...either someone should clear it up, or we should just live with the reallity that KAWAI has a hard time understanding what little extra effort it would take to put an instrument on the market that really blows away the competition in the same price range.

I've given up expecting Kawai's marketing/management to understand the issue. I shall be moving on in a different direction. It's still an unnecessary shame, though.
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#1933174 - 07/27/12 02:03 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
etercap Offline
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I've seen a couple sites listing the ES7 for sale, at nearly $2000

http://www.dcpianos.com/html/featured/kawai-es7-portable-digital-piano/
http://www.lanemusic.com/p-1095-kawai-es7-home-keyboard-bundle.aspx (says it's part of a bundle)

Is there something wrong with those prices? Because they are quite higher than, for example the MP6, a fully featured stage piano. The ES7's improved action and DSP effects must be really good.


Edited by DPNewbie (07/27/12 02:06 PM)

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#1933198 - 07/27/12 02:34 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
EssBrace Offline
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For those lamenting the lack of Kawai's top sounds in the MP6 or ES7 I understand your frustration.

However, you are assuming the MP10 is significantly better. Its on-paper specification would suggest so but I'm really not sure. The jump from Harmonic Imaging to Progressive Harmonic Imaging is immense - night and day. The jump to UPHI is a small increment in my opinion. Whilst I accept in principle it is a kick in the nuts to those that desire the MP6 and ES7 and who may feel short-changed but I think it's a non-issue in reality.

Cheers,

Steve
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#1933212 - 07/27/12 02:51 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: EssBrace]
voxpops Offline
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Originally Posted By: EssBrace
For those lamenting the lack of Kawai's top sounds in the MP6 or ES7 I understand your frustration.

However, you are assuming the MP10 is significantly better. Its on-paper specification would suggest so but I'm really not sure. The jump from Harmonic Imaging to Progressive Harmonic Imaging is immense - night and day. The jump to UPHI is a small increment in my opinion. Whilst I accept in principle it is a kick in the nuts to those that desire the MP6 and ES7 and who may feel short-changed but I think it's a non-issue in reality.

Cheers,

Steve

You may be right, Steve, but we start from such a low base with DP sound engines, that every (even very small) increment helps - and there really is no excuse for "dumbing down" DPs from the very mediocre best that manufacturers offer.
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#1933217 - 07/27/12 02:58 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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PHI has been around for some time. UPHI has been around for some time. Now there's even newer technology HI-XL . At the same time a new instrument is brought on the market. Although I do not expect it to have the latest and greatest from the top-line of instruments, it could at least have the previous technology on board and not the previous before previous incarnation (PHI) . Seems a bit odd for a new line of instruments. Regardless of the fact if the difference between PHI and UPHI is really that big. That said I'll probably buy an ES anyway, for the keys and total package, not specifically for the sound - which is a pity.

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#1933228 - 07/27/12 03:16 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: etercap]
dewster Offline
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Originally Posted By: DPNewbie
I've seen a couple sites listing the ES7 for sale, at nearly $2000

http://www.dcpianos.com/html/featured/kawai-es7-portable-digital-piano/
http://www.lanemusic.com/p-1095-kawai-es7-home-keyboard-bundle.aspx (says it's part of a bundle)

From that first link:


Is it just me, or does it seem like the cross board reinforcing the stand ends and supporting the pedals could possibly interfere with one's knees?
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#1933235 - 07/27/12 03:47 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
dewster Offline
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Originally Posted By: JFP
That said I'll probably buy an ES anyway, for the keys and total package, not specifically for the sound - which is a pity.

That's the sport! You see voxpops? This is how it's done!

Just lie back and think of England.
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#1933238 - 07/27/12 03:53 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
sh1 Offline
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Korg could really end it for keyboards like the ES7 if they release that rumoured SV-2 based on Kronos.

Their R+D team must be staggered that since the cool but flawed SV-1, noone has yet put a great piano sample, great EPs and great organs in a single, reasonably priced portable package.

That goal is still wide open, I really hope Korg won't miss it next time.

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#1933240 - 07/27/12 03:55 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: EssBrace]
Mar_red Offline
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Originally Posted By: EssBrace


... you are assuming the MP10 is significantly better. Its on-paper specification would suggest so but I'm really not sure. The jump from Harmonic Imaging to Progressive Harmonic Imaging is immense - night and day. The jump to UPHI is a small increment in my opinion.
Cheers,

Steve


Steve,
Did you compare MP6 to MP10 before buying the latter?

If so, what about the difference in the actions?
Is it in your opinion as a MP10 owner so small too?

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#1933242 - 07/27/12 03:57 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: dewster]
voxpops Offline
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Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: JFP
That said I'll probably buy an ES anyway, for the keys and total package, not specifically for the sound - which is a pity.

That's the sport! You see voxpops? This is how it's done!

Just lie back and think of England.

Sport? JFP should get an Olympic gold medal for teeth-gritting in the face of marketing-generated adversity. wink
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#1933251 - 07/27/12 04:13 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: sh1]
voxpops Offline
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Originally Posted By: sh1
Korg could really end it for keyboards like the ES7 if they release that rumoured SV-2 based on Kronos.

Their R+D team must be staggered that since the cool but flawed SV-1, noone has yet put a great piano sample, great EPs and great organs in a single, reasonably priced portable package.

That goal is still wide open, I really hope Korg won't miss it next time.

+1 thumb
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#1933289 - 07/27/12 05:44 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Online   content
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Originally Posted By: dewster
From that first link:


Is it just me, or does it seem like the cross board reinforcing the stand ends and supporting the pedals could possibly interfere with one's knees?


No, I don't think so. I don't recall hearing any complaints from owners of the ES6, which used a similar stand design.

Cheers,
James
x
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#1933297 - 07/27/12 05:53 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
dewster Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kawai James
No, I don't think so. I don't recall hearing any complaints from owners of the ES6, which used a similar stand design.

Perhaps having bumped once too often against the similarly placed cross brace of our old Z-stand, my knees are now kind of claustrophobic.
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#1933306 - 07/27/12 06:06 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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I use a nice K&M stand for my MP6 (I'll look up the number) , no bumps and plenty of options (second stand, mic stand, laptop stand, etc) . One of my purchase reasons was leg space / knee space , like what you're talking about . I don't expect the ES stand to have too little room though, but a third party stand may have more options. For at home the ES bundle (stand + three pedal unit) seems a nice package.

Are all three pedals dynamic , or just the damper ? And can you change what a pedal controls ; e.g. could one of them behave as an expression pedal ? The ES lacks the expression pedal input that the mp series has. If the three pedal unit could compensate/ substitute for that, that would be great.

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#1933313 - 07/27/12 06:18 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
voxpops Offline
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Originally Posted By: JFP
I use a nice K&M stand

thumb K&M are the best IMO.
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#1933323 - 07/27/12 06:31 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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+1
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#1933376 - 07/27/12 08:28 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Mar_red]
EssBrace Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mar_red
Originally Posted By: EssBrace

... you are assuming the MP10 is significantly better. Its on-paper specification would suggest so but I'm really not sure. The jump from Harmonic Imaging to Progressive Harmonic Imaging is immense - night and day. The jump to UPHI is a small increment in my opinion.
Cheers,
Steve

Steve,
Did you compare MP6 to MP10 before buying the latter?

If so, what about the difference in the actions?
Is it in your opinion as a MP10 owner so small too?

No I didn't compare before buying the MP10. Well, not a straight comparison but I did play another Kawai with the same action (CS-3 I think it was). I thought that action - RH - was very good indeed.

Anyway I played the MP6 for the first time a couple of weeks back and I have to be honest and say it sounded pretty much the same as the MP10 to me (main piano voice). I like the MP10's action more in totality but there are elements of the RH action I prefer. Whilst I wouldn't ask for the very abrupt bottoming out of a Roland action I think the MP10's action could do with being just a little crisper at the bottom of its travel. It's mushy, like there's too much cushioning. But overall I prefer the RM3 action of the MP10 - it's just so smooth and enjoyable to play.

As a fairly portable device with great action and good (but not outstanding) sound I think the MP6 represents better overall value than the MP10. The MP10's EPs are good though, very respectable and if that is a priority for anyone I don't think the MP6 can quite cut it with the best (MP10 is competitive in that respect though).

Cheers,

Steve
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#1934009 - 07/29/12 07:35 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: EssBrace]
Mar_red Offline
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Steve, thank you for your reply.

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Anyway I played the MP6 for the first time a couple of weeks back and I have to be honest and say it sounded pretty much the same as the MP10 to me (main piano voice).


It’s very probable, maybe I am deaf but to me many digital pianos sound very similar. For example, using headphones, I REALLY like the main piano on my old Roland FP7. Personally I don’t hear big improvement sound wise as far as the Roland FP-7f is concerned. But once again, maybe I’m deaf smile.

Originally Posted By: EssBrace

…. I wouldn't ask for the very abrupt bottoming out of a Roland action …


That’s the point! Maybe it’s the beginning of arthritis but the abrupt bottoming out of my Roland PHA II action is just plainly hurting my hands. Thirty minutes of playing and I feel pain in my fingers. At the same time I am able to practice on my acoustic upright for much, much longer.
I would risk to say that Roland actions (to me PHA III is the same) can be fingers joints killers if you are over forty.

Fatar actions in Nord pianos aren’t any better in this matter.

I love Yamaha sounds but its actions never impress me much.Avant Grands are beasts from another world.

So the winner in this competition seems to be obvious - Kawai.
Thanks to Kawai James and his magnificent job on this Forum I am definitely Kawai Man, never neither playing nor even seeing a single Kawai instrument…:).
(James, you should get a really big rise in your salary and immediate promotion smile ).

So at present my favorites are MP6, MP10, ES7 or MP7 and MP11 with their Grand Feel actions – I have no doubts we will see descendants of MP6 and MP10 equipped according to CA 65/95 lines. I will visit Thomann store as soon as they have CA65/95. It is only about 900 km drive smile.

(Please forgive my language mistakes but I very seldom write in English)

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#1934092 - 07/29/12 10:04 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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@James or other Kawai expert; I repeat my question about the three pedal option for the ES; since it seems to lack a third pedal input (expression) , could one of the three pedals of this optional unit be programmed/ used as an expression pedal. E.g. For Wah sounds (clavinet, Ep). Otherwise idea for future firmware update ? Will only work if the other pedals are also continuous; if they are switch types, it'll be a no-go anyway.

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#1934217 - 07/29/12 03:10 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
voxpops Offline
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Originally Posted By: JFP
@James or other Kawai expert; I repeat my question about the three pedal option for the ES; since it seems to lack a third pedal input (expression) , could one of the three pedals of this optional unit be programmed/ used as an expression pedal. E.g. For Wah sounds (clavinet, Ep). Otherwise idea for future firmware update ? Will only work if the other pedals are also continuous; if they are switch types, it'll be a no-go anyway.

AFAIK, the pedals are restricted to damper, soft and rotary speed control, and I believe you need the Kawai F-20 dual pedal for the additional non-damper functions.

For expression pedal control, you will probably need to rig up something via MIDI, using CC#11.
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#1934258 - 07/29/12 04:30 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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There are two connectors for pedals: one for the f10 and one for the f20 ; on p14 the introduction states you can connect the f10 or (!) the f20. It goes never in detail about what happens if you use both and what the options are for the three pedals you have with the combination of both. How the "three pedal board" is connected and what control options it provides is also not clear. Thats why I would like to know...would be nice of you could use sort of an expression pedal somehow...

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#1934270 - 07/29/12 05:01 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Mar_red]
EssBrace Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mar_red
Maybe it’s the beginning of arthritis but the abrupt bottoming out of my Roland PHA II action is just plainly hurting my hands. Thirty minutes of playing and I feel pain in my fingers. At the same time I am able to practice on my acoustic upright for much, much longer.


Ok, well the Kawai wooden actions are very forgiving at the bottom of the travel and would probably be the best choice for you. Likewise, although they are not of the same general quality the Korg RH3 action has a softness at the end of the key travel that is very comfortable.

The irony is that I played a Kawai K2 upright yesterday and its action had extremely abrupt and hard key bottoming. It was used, but in decent condition.

By the way, your English is very good!

Cheers,

Steve
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#1934287 - 07/29/12 05:38 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
voxpops Offline
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Originally Posted By: JFP
There are two connectors for pedals: one for the f10 and one for the f20 ; on p14 the introduction states you can connect the f10 or (!) the f20. It goes never in detail about what happens if you use both and what the options are for the three pedals you have with the combination of both. How the "three pedal board" is connected and what control options it provides is also not clear. Thats why I would like to know...would be nice of you could use sort of an expression pedal somehow...

It does tell you the options in the manual, and that does not include expression. As I said in my post, unless I am very much mistaken, the only option for an expression pedal is via MIDI.

As for 3 pedals, it seems you are restricted to 2 via the damper and damper/soft inputs. The F-20 provides both damper and soft, and therefore connecting an additional damper pedal would be redundant. It MAY be possible to use two independent damper and soft pedals, but that would still restrict you to the damper/soft/rotary options. Unless Kawai offers a firmware update to include additional functionality, you're back to MIDI for that.

Think of it this way, the ES7 is not designed to be a full stage piano. The ES7 relates to the MP6 in the same way that the Roland FP-7F relates to the RD-700NX (or 300NX). The FP-7F is a compromise when it comes to using it live, so if you need all the additional functionality, you need to buy the NX.


Edited by voxpops (07/29/12 05:44 PM)
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#1934297 - 07/29/12 05:52 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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You're probably right. Thanks or the clarification . If there is indeed some extra gain in adding the third pedal, 'someone' might know (and post accordingly ) , otherwise it's probably as you said. Damp/ soft, no additional frills...and only the damper with continuous / half pedal function.

Wish there was an mp6 II / 7 on the horizon, or upgrade path to RH II for the current MP ;-)


Edited by JFP (07/29/12 05:54 PM)

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#1934335 - 07/29/12 07:32 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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The ES7 features three pedal connectors, intended for the following pedals:

- F-10H (single pedal, 1/4" jack, digital)
- F-20 (double pedal, 1/4" jack, analogue)
- F-301 (triple pedal, mini-DIN jack, digital)

As far as I am aware, the ES7 does not allow pedal functions to be re-assigned, nor does it allow multiple pedal units (e.g. F-10H + F-20) to be connected simultaneously.

However, I am grateful for the interesting suggestions in this thread - some of which have been forwarded to the development team.

Cheers,
James
x
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#1934605 - 07/30/12 09:07 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Triple sensor question ( probably a stupid one, but nevertheless); will the triple sensitivity also be output to Midi out , so you can more subtly control a SW piano ? My technological knowledge says yes of course, but since assumption is always dangerous I'll ask it anyway.

So will the extra key-down info (or half-key down if you like) be used for external sound sources (correctly output through Midi). Or will only internal sounds benefit from this 3 sensor feature...?

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#1934640 - 07/30/12 10:36 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
gvfarns Offline
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Typically three sensor actions do not transmit partial key down information per se. The MIDI signal sent is either NOTE ON (and the velocity) or NOTE OFF.

The thing with a two-sensor action is that every NOTE ON is followed by a NOTE OFF. So if you play the same note three times quickly you might get

NOTE ON (34)
NOTE OFF
NOTE ON (52)
NOTE OFF
NOTE ON (39)
NOTE OFF

As if the damper was silencing the note in between each strike. However, in a grand piano you can hit the string again without lowering the dampers or resetting the hammer completely. In MIDI speak this is typically transmitted as

NOTE ON (34)
NOTE ON (52)
NOTE ON (39)
NOTE OFF

If your piano tone generator is smart enough, it will interpret this as the latter two strikes utilizing the double-escapement feature.

You can think of the highest sensor (the first one tripped as we move the key down) as controlling the damper and the lower two as computing the impact velocity. If you keep the key below the highest sensor, the dampers do not engage and you can hit the key again and again by triggering the lower two. However, if you don't lift the key above the middle sensor, then you don't get any MIDI signals.

Notice that in the ES7, according to James, the velocity at which the key is lifted is also taken into account in some fashion internally. I'm not sure exactly how that works, but the note lift velocity is not used by any external engine that I know of. I assume what would happen is that the NOTE OFF MIDI signal also has a velocity, but AFAIK it is always ignored.


Edited by gvfarns (07/30/12 10:46 AM)

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#1934912 - 07/30/12 07:33 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: gvfarns]
sullivang Online   blank
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Just a small point to add to Gvfarn's post - the actual sequence generated by Yamaha and Casio pianos is:

Note-On
Note-On
Note-On
Note-Off
Note-Off
Note-Off

I.e - an equal number of Note-Offs is sent. If just one Note-Off is sent to a Yamaha, the note will continue to ring, which of course is not right.

Also, there is at least one software piano that does indeed respond to release velocity - Pianoteq.

Greg.

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#1935413 - 07/31/12 04:42 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Thanks for all the technical information. Bottom line is still; will the ES output a signal that does 'half keying' in a way that is useful for SW pianos like pianoteq , or is it only the internal sound engine that benefits from this extra info and will the extra 'half key down' information be ignored by the midi output stream. Perhaps James can give an answer to that question (the techies at Kawai must know this) ?

Similar question for release velocity ; I know the keyboard is capable of handling release velocity but will the release velocity info also be send out over midi ?

Why would I like to know ? Because I will mostly use a SW AP and if the ES7 doesn't transmit any more info over midi than my mp6 currently does (triple sensitivity data ) , than my main reason to crossgrade falls through.

Many thanks if this can be made clear.

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#1935427 - 07/31/12 05:25 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
sullivang Online   blank
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Regarding the triple-sensor MIDI stream, I would not be very concerned about that. The worst case would be that it only sends standard Note-On/Note-Off pairs. I.e - you will hear a new note every time you repeat the note, regardless of whether you do a full release or a partial release. This is IMHO by far the most important thing. (if you didn't hear a new note at all when you did a partial repeat, that would of course be a complete failure, and there is no way Kawai would do that).

But, let's assume Kawai follow what appears to be a de-facto standard, and it behaves the same as Yamaha and Casio. (I don't know how Roland do it yet). FWIW, I can report that all my software pianos (I only have a few) seem to behave ok with the triple-sensor MIDI. I have not done any careful testing to see how authentic they are though. (I don't have ready access to a real piano, so this would be difficult). I believe there is, or was, a problem with the Vintage D though. This was quite a while ago so I'd be surprised if it hasn't been fixed by now, if it was ever a problem at all.

There's another issue though. The two DAWs I have tested (Ableton Live Lite and Reaper) do NOT properly handle the triple-sensor MIDI, however fortunately, they both at least produce a usable result. Ableton Live will convert the triple-sensor stream into standard Note-On/Note-Off pairs as soon as the MIDI file is imported or recorded. Reaper does slightly better - it will actually retain the triple-sensor stream, but only until the MIDI is edited. As soon as it is edited, it is converted to Note-On/Off pairs. (it was quite a while ago that I did this testing - if this is important for anyone please do your own testing to verify this)

The difference between the triple-sensor stream and standard MIDI is, IMHO, extremely subtle. All it means is that the triple-sensor stream will produce repetitions that are not damped inbetween each repetition. How audible this is depends on how the piano software behaves.

If anyone has found a DAW that retains the triple-sensor MIDI stream, please advise! smile

Greg.

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#1935435 - 07/31/12 05:45 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
sullivang Online   blank
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(here's a thread from a user who seems to have had triple-sensor problems with Galaxy software pianos: Kontakt and 3-sensor keyboards As I say, this could be out of date now. It's a bit long and convoluted, but has some entertaining hat eating ;^)

Greg.

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#1935468 - 07/31/12 07:18 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Originally Posted By: JFP
Bottom line is still; will the ES output a signal that does 'half keying' in a way that is useful for SW pianos like pianoteq...


According to one of the ES7 engineers:

Quote:
If the external sound source (in this case the software piano) can sound plural same note tones, the extra key-down information can be used via MIDI.

Half-Key down the same note 3 times will send the following messages:

Note-On
Note-On
Note-On
Note-Off
Note-Off
Note-Off


And this from another engineer:

Quote:
it all depends on the software piano on the PC.

The 3-sensor action outputs note information for Note on and Note off
including velocity.
It doesn't matter, if it is a 2 or 3 sensor system,
the MIDI OUT information is always Note ON and OFF.

The benefit for 3 sensor is more Note ON and OFF according to the playing
style (ex.: key half down)
compared to 2 sensor.


Cheers,
James
x
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#1935524 - 07/31/12 10:02 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
gvfarns Offline
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Vintage D (maybe Galaxy) did have a problem with triple sensor actions at some point. Casio was mentioned specifically. Not sure if it's true of Roland. Anyway it was fixed in an update.

Yeah, processing the event stream correctly seems like a good thing, but even if you did get note on, note off, note on, note off, a triple sensor action is decidedly better because you can play more quickly--you don't have to wait for the key to come all the way back up before playing again. I kind of suspect that the difference between having the first note sustain through the second and not is not terribly audible, as greg hints.

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#1936215 - 08/02/12 07:24 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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I was able to play a prototype ES7 for a few minutes. I don't know if there are much differences with the factory machines that are in the shops now, but here are my thoughts:

1) Action;
- lighter to play than the RH and good repetition.
- Seems to be a bit more quiet as well.

The RH and RH II are much more different than I thought. Going back to the RH feels heavier. That can also be a matter of taste / preference; some people like heavier. I personally like it somewhere in between ;-) In short the action feels a bit more like the PHAIII in the Roland FP7F - which I found lighter and faster to play right from the start - before I bought the MP6.

2) Sound;
- AP's similar to the MP sounds.
- Resonance and side effects are too much overdone ! The pedal-off resonance (when you release the damper) is way to loud and present. Same goes for the fall-back effect - hammer fall-back when you release the keys.
- Hall effects are way overdone. The reverb etc in the presets is way to present and long. You immediately feel the urge to turn it off altogether. It's like being on a cheap fair ;-) The hall effects are indeed much better than before though !

In short: the preset programs that are on the (proto-) ES7 are overdone in terms of AP effects (resonance, damper release, key-off (hammer fall-back)) and in reverb. That can be much more subtile . The physical 'effects' of the keybed are subtile , like let-off mechanism, so why not be a bit more conservative in the effects processing section too ?

Conclusion (with my three minutes time of testing):
- much better keybed , which I really like !
- better EFX (Hall/reverb), but way overdone in the presets
- probably better acoustic effects (resonance, hammer fallback etc), but way overdone in the presets.
- speakers can be very loud, but are pretty indirect and they lack the 'bottom' of bigger speakers of course. They are OK , but don't give the impression of really playing a piano. You'll need the CA/CS series for that (but that's not portable;-).

Again: this was a pre-serial ES7 and not a production machine, so the actual presets can be different in the current offerings ! For the keybed it's a real winner for sure. With Virtual Technician you can always dial back some of the effects that are to present. Or perhaps the presets will be more conservative in new firmware.


Edited by JFP (08/02/12 07:27 AM)

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#1936414 - 08/02/12 03:26 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
Dave Ferris Offline
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#1936434 - 08/02/12 04:14 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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hi Dave,

I subscribe to your enthusiasm about the ES7. I specifically liked the keys and the speaker volume (although it could be a little more 'direct' to my taste). What did you think about the added effects , both AP acoustic effects (like damper off etc) and the reverbs. On the prototype they were pretty obvious and too much to my taste. Could be that:

1) I had to little time to really go through all the details and settings to make a final judgement, although my first impression really was that I would want to dial back all effects.

2) the final models have updated preset programs that make more subtle use of the available processing.

I certainly didn't want to sound to negative, because I really liked the touch of the keybed RH II and basic sounds. Can't wait to see a model in the stores...

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#1936472 - 08/02/12 05:37 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
Kawai James Online   content
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JFP, interesting to read your thoughts about the ES7.

I'm just a little curious about how/where you were able to play an ES7 prototype in Holland, though...

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
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Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1936482 - 08/02/12 06:01 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Dave Ferris]
gvfarns Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I played the new CA65 too. Much preferred the ES7. Very streamlined, classy look in black. Looks to be excellent build quality. Listed at 49 lbs., so not light but doable for gigging. For something to sit in your office or small studio and even gigging, the ES7 would be recommended here.


So you weren't impressed with the new Kawai wood action in the CA65?


Edited by gvfarns (08/02/12 06:01 PM)

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#1936502 - 08/02/12 06:30 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: gvfarns]
KLSinCT Offline
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Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I played the new CA65 too. Much preferred the ES7. Very streamlined, classy look in black. Looks to be excellent build quality. Listed at 49 lbs., so not light but doable for gigging. For something to sit in your office or small studio and even gigging, the ES7 would be recommended here.


So you weren't impressed with the new Kawai wood action in the CA65?


I was wondering the same thing given that the CA65 looks fantastic on paper, especially with the new GF wooden action. I'm very much looking forward to trying the CA65 when my closest dealer (in New Hampshire) has one in stock.

K.
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#1936509 - 08/02/12 06:53 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: KLSinCT]
Dave Ferris Offline
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#1936620 - 08/02/12 10:10 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Dave Ferris]
KLSinCT Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
The CA65/63/93 are simply not my cup of tea. I briefly had the 93 and returned it after a few days .The sound coming through the speakers is not pleasing to me at all. Pierre had the 65 & 63 right next to each other and while I didn't spend a lot of time on both (the ES7 was just more fun for me to play.so time being limited I went back to that fairly quickly) , I didn't notice a night and day difference in the sound and action between the two.

Again I might not be the best source on this since that whole line is simply not my thing. Probably best to play it and draw your own conclusions.. wink

Regarding the effects on the ES7-yeah they were drenched in reverb. I scrolled through different verbs and found one that wasn't too over the top wet. I didn't get into the menu and balance the wet/dry ratio, which I'm assuming you can do.

Like I mentioned, I really liked the look of the ES7, classy. It was on the dedicated stand but didn't have that *DP on a stand* vibe to it that can make these things look kinda cheesy in the home, office or studio. It's listed as 54" wide, same as the CP5 but visually it seems smaller and less bulky.

Again I was impressed and would love to have one in our bedroom office where we have our iMac and desk.


Thanks for the clarification, Dave. What was the 'street price' of the new ES7 including the factory furniture stand and the triple-pedal unit?

Cheers,

Kevin
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#1936628 - 08/02/12 10:31 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: KLSinCT]
Dave Ferris Offline
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#1936645 - 08/02/12 10:58 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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Kawai Europe uploaded a couple of ES7 product demonstration videos last night:

German:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Y3diPSex4

English:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD6XvOXrkMk

Note that these videos are rather general in scope, and may not be sufficiently detailed for forum regulars.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
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Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1936734 - 08/03/12 02:41 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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"Regarding the effects on the ES7-yeah they were drenched in reverb. "

Yeh, exactly my thoughts. I think the engineers must be really proud on their improved algorithms and are putting it in your face: " here listen to our new reverb , how nice / loud and loooong it is !".

Completely out of context and annoying to my ears and mind. You hear piano drenched in a reverb that sounds like a huge empty stadium, while your ES is standing in front of you in a relatively small space (home / office) and used for practicing. Or worse in a band (making you have to turn the REV off altogether). I assume you can reprogram the presets to have less of this all, but it would be better if Kawai lend someone critical an ES7 and have the presets adjusted more subtle, conservative and realistic settings. I can't imagine anyone would mind if the presets in a next firmware update are less spacey and with more subtle AP resonance effects; lots of effect may impress the ignorant potential customer for a moment , but becomes very distracting very soon when you start to use it in your own environment.

I think I made my point clear; great instrument, great basic sound, but presets need reworking; hope Kawai will listen and take a fresh look at the presets with fresh ears. For my sake someone external and new to the ES with a fresh look...(ear)

J

By the way : I was able to test the ES7 when my MP6 was being fixed. Kawai engineers were so nice to take the unit with them for me to see. Really great service of Kawai !! Small problem with key's in the lowest octaves that made the bottom plate resonate very loud (like hitting the bottom). Problem reported, quick reply from Kawai, engineer comes to my house, problem fixed; as it should be. No questions asked...although I was playing with the thought for a moment of switching to a Numa Piano or Casio (light weight) , I doubt if you get the same service when problems arise ;-)

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#1936765 - 08/03/12 06:45 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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ES 7 question:

Can you adjust the volume of the internal sound engine in relation to the audio input channels. In other words:

- when you connect the output of a laptop with a software instrument to the input of the ES7 you'll have to adjust the output of the laptop to make it louder or softer in relation to the internal sounds that play along (ES has no input volume control).

- but when you want to decrease the volume of the internal sound, or turn it off altogether; you can't just decrease the volume slider, because than you will decrease the sound of the external input as well (?!). Is there a way to control the volume of internal sound and external sound separately without altering the overall volume. Rather not through sub- sub- sub menu's...

Hope I made my question clear. It would be great to be able to use a software AP together with the AP sounds through the speakers and headphone of the ES in a flexible manner. J

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#1936808 - 08/03/12 09:48 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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JFP, I'm afraid there is no way to adjust the line input volume on the ES7. The only option is to adjust the volume of the sound source (e.g. the output volume of your computer).

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1937025 - 08/03/12 05:46 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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test
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1937027 - 08/03/12 05:46 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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test
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1937103 - 08/03/12 09:44 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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test
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1937155 - 08/04/12 01:43 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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test
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1937249 - 08/04/12 10:25 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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test
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1937264 - 08/04/12 11:00 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
playliszt Offline
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issue resolved


Edited by playliszt (08/06/12 04:02 PM)

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#1937273 - 08/04/12 11:18 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
playliszt Offline
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issue resolved


Edited by playliszt (08/06/12 04:03 PM)

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#1937295 - 08/04/12 12:38 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
gvfarns Offline
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Anyone else unable to see the 13th page of this thread? These database errors are driving me nuts. (I'm actually posting to add something to the 13th page, in case the error is that a post got deleted so there is actually nothin there.) If you see this post and you don't have a problem with this thread, you can ignore it.

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#1937305 - 08/04/12 01:02 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
Ube Offline
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Kawai James, pardon my simple questions but I don't have a Kawai store nearby. Comparing the MP10, ES7 and MP6 -- do they all have arranger functions like the ES7, i.e., chord recognition for the rhythms under metronome, variations, etc.? Or is the arranger function stronger on the ES7?
I ask because the ES7 is a very attractive package yet the demo's I've heard show the superiority of the MP10's piano. And the MP6, of course, is somewhere in-between.

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#1938252 - 08/06/12 03:15 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Arranger is ES7 only; the others have some sort of drum patterns in the metronome section, but that's it. I'm curious if this post is going to be accessible - by the way the 13th page of this thread was meant as a joke I suppose, or do I really miss so many pages ...(that I can't see)

Important info on my earlier remarks about over the top acoustic effects and reverb ; according to Kawai the start-up presets of the prototype unit seem to have been altered and many effect settings we're set to the max. Factory presets should be a bit more conservative in that respect. Can't check it - due to a lack of factory ES7 - but it may explain (part of) my criticism .

I thought Kawai deserves that nuance to my comments. Hope it is indeed better with factory presets - I'm allergic to overdone effects - they should be reserved for fares and musicals :-)

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#1948158 - 08/23/12 10:51 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: gvfarns]
anotherscott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: gvfarns
processing the event stream correctly seems like a good thing, but even if you did get note on, note off, note on, note off...

I don't see how that would be possible. If you press a key, you get Note On. If you release the key above the "middle" sensor (i.e. not high enough to generate a Note Off), and then press down again, the hardware design generates another Note On. The hardware is not generating a Note Off between the two Note On events, and if the hardware doesn't generate it, the software can't receive it. So nothing on the receiving (software) side needs to be changed to recognize this, as the board is still sending out ordinary MIDI note data as it has existed for 30 years. Unless something is really screwy in the software, I can't see why this shouldn't work anywhere.

In fact, if you hook up a Casio PX-3 (triple sensor) to a Nord Stage 2 (no triple sensor), you can play the Nord piano sound from the Casio with the benefit of its third sensor. Kind of a cool side benefit if you were pairing the weighted Casio with the unweighted Nord, for example. (Though overall, I don't think the Casio action feels as good as Nord's own weighted actions.)

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
For those lamenting the lack of Kawai's top sounds in the MP6 or ES7 I understand your frustration.

However, you are assuming the MP10 is significantly better. Its on-paper specification would suggest so but I'm really not sure.

Personally, I found the MP10 notably better sounding than the MP6. The MP10 actually managed to cross my threshold of "favorite DP sounds" where the MP6 did not.

But I do understand that they were targeting a $1999 street price (matching the FP-7F perhaps?), so if the UPHI sound would have added $100, $200, whatever, they would have missed their target, even though many of us here might say "hey, we'd pay the extra for that, if we could." (Looked at a different way, the MP10 is $2500; an ES7 with UPHI would almost be an MP10 with speakers for $2000... that would be a great deal! How feasible that--or something close to that--might be probably depends on just how much of the price would be related to the different keybeds. I agree, it sure would have been nice to see.)

The other limitation is, again, we can choose between MIDI controller functions (MP6) or built in speakers (ES7). Same as the choice between the FP-7F and the RD700NX, or the FP-4F and the RD300NX, or the Yamaha P155 and the CP33, or the Casio PX3 and the PX330. I'm sure I'm not the only person who would find it useful to have MIDI controller functions and speakers in the same unit. The only model like that I can think of is the Yamaha CP300 at 70+ lbs.


Edited by anotherscott (08/30/12 08:56 AM)

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#1951304 - 08/30/12 02:00 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Stevesie Offline
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Posts: 45
New ES7 vid. Still near the top of my list, if my back recovers enough to lift it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81k7i_CNcQE

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#1953768 - 09/04/12 11:34 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Stevesie]
tonosity Offline
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Loc: California
My local Kawai dealer (in central California) claims that they are now shipping ES7s. According to them, the optional stands are back ordered, but the keyboards are being delivered to customers who've pre-ordered.

In any case, if someone actually receives an ES7, please post you're first-hand evaluation of this new Kawai DP!

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#1962437 - 09/22/12 07:29 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
mvwrd Offline
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Registered: 09/21/12
Posts: 2
Hi,

I picked up my ES7 yesterday. Would like to provide you with meaningful insights or some form of review but I'm really just starting out playing piano so that would be rather pointless.

I had some piano lessons for about a year and a half or so when I was around 6 years old but it never really caught on. Did play drums in high school for about 5 or 6 years after which other interests and study/work steered me away from musicmaking completely. Anyway, lately it's been nagging me and I figured I really want to learn to play the piano. Wheter or not i'll become any good at it haha..

Both my dad and brother play in a band (piano / guitar) and I kind of miss the joy of making music myself. So after reading numerous reviews and scouring lots of information from these boards (thanks!) I decided to buy this Kawai and give it a go.

So far I think it's a beautiful instrument and I'm sure it will hog plenty of my time for years to come smile

Back to practicing my F chord and "When the saints go marching in". laugh

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#1962446 - 09/22/12 08:06 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Congratulations, you're one of the first ES7 owners here on this forum (maybe the first?), so please give us all your thoughts on the new board.

Some guy in Germany had a casing resonance (natural frequency of the casing and material that was triggered when playing 'a' -s). But according to the technicians this was the only person who had this problem and exemplary. Perhaps you can verify that you don't have any case resonances when playing over the loudspeakers . I've got a es7 set in reservation , so a little self interest here ;-)

How do you like the keybed and were you able to compare it to other brands before buying the ES ? Especially compared to Casio Px series - which could be a near competitor in terms of feature set. The build quality of the ES and the speakers are of another class though.

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#1962662 - 09/22/12 04:21 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
mvwrd Offline
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Registered: 09/21/12
Posts: 2
Thanks.

Since I am a beginner in the truest sense of the word I can't give you any worthwile in depth opinions on the key action or subtleties in the sound. I do find it a marvelous apparatus though. And If I close my eyes it feels like a proper piano as far as I can remember it (we had one in the living room when I grew up).

I just had a friend over for dinner who has played for a couple of years in his teens and still has an acoustic at home who was really enthousiastic about it.

As far as the resonance problem you mentioned.. I cannot reproduce. The only remark I have is that there is a small nick/dent in the volume knob/slider thing. It is tiny, does not really bother me but I will email the supplier if it is easily replaceable.

I haven't really compared it to other pianos before buying, I mostly bought it based on Specs/Pricerange/Reviews etc. Trying to filter the bullsh*t/bias from those as good as I can. I figured any decent piano would do for me while learning and if I have aquired a particular taste in the future I can always change/upgrade then.

Right now I am not worrying too much about all that and more about lesson three of my course haha. When the saints go marching in.. Whoohaa.

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#1963570 - 09/24/12 08:05 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
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Got a set on order. No idea when it will arrive yet. Hope it will come in one piece and without flaws, cause my MP6 orders went back 4 times, before getting the 5th , which was perfect.

And now that I finely decided, Kawai bring out an MP7 with RH II keybed tomorrow ( my perfect board) ;-) If so, I don't want to know !


Hope we can exchange some experiences with the ES7 soon. Do you have the rest of the Kawai set as well (standard and three pedal unit ) ?

J

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#1963773 - 09/24/12 03:48 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Montano Offline
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Posts: 25
JFP, may I ask you what made you decide for the ES7 instead of the CN34, or waiting for the much lower priced PX350? Would be interesting to know which comparisons you made.

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#1963782 - 09/24/12 04:10 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Cn34: not available yet. And not portable; I decided I wanted to have the option to be able to move around with the DP , although it won't happen I first instance. Smaller footprint (our living space is limited ); nicer finishing paint (sort of glossy), amp designer, more powerful speaker system (than Casio, not than cn34). The ES looks more classy to me in a living room than the Casio as well. For a studio I wouldn't bother.

Casio : not available yet in the shops for me to test. I'm tired of waiting for something , there's always something new coming , can't wait forever for every next product. Also knowing the RH keybed, which I like a lot and knowing the px3 keybed, which is just not my cup of tea, I doubted that the px350 would be superior in touch to the Kawai. I still worry that I should have tried the Casio first and save me half the money, but since the mp6 was sold and I could make a good deal on the es7 , I just went ahead. I don't think it will disappoint me and perhaps it may be better not to think about the money gap compared to the px350 to much, which is huge !

When the px is out, I think the FP 's of Roland and the ES face some tough competition. But I'm also sure I will enjoy the new RH II a lot. Cn34 was a consideration , but I skipped it for the above reasons. Very nice instrument though for the money and much more classy in design than e.g.the px850 and alike, which I find very industrial and quite ugly; really function first / form later.

Lets see what user reports we'll get later on on the px 350; for now the information is very very limited ( also a reason why I couldn't make a good judgement on the Casio; tech specs alone and demos from Casio or sellers don't tell me enough).

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#1963798 - 09/24/12 04:39 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Montano Offline
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Posts: 25
JFP, thanks for the information. The ES7 is a vey nice DP. However, would miss a nice key cover (to avoid gathering dust between the keys) when placed in the living room.

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#1963807 - 09/24/12 05:04 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Montano, I believe the ES7 includes a dust cover.

James
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#1963971 - 09/24/12 10:34 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Montano Offline
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Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 25
James,the user's manual doesn't mention it. Would have to use some aftermarket vinyl cover, which is not very furniturelike in a living room. Moreover, would have to remove the music rack/rest in order to throw the cover over it. Other suggestions will be welcome.

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#1963999 - 09/25/12 12:20 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Montano, my apologies, the ES7 does not include a dust cover.

I thought that a dust cover may have been included with models sold in Japan (I had seen pictures of an ES7 covered up with a Kawai branded cover), however this is not the case either.

The dust cover is available as an optional accessory in Japan, however.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1964050 - 09/25/12 03:24 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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I have a dust cover which my girlfriend made : it's elastic , so it's bends nicely over the piano and you can leave the music rest where it is. Worked for the MP; got another one for a 61 keyboard, for the TV set and other stuff that gathers dust. She's quite handy - perhaps look for a similar elastic cover , or a similar girlfriend who can make you one ;-)

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#1967312 - 10/01/12 01:28 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
pianomike Offline
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Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 59
I just purchased a Es7 from Taylor Music in West Chester Pa. this week end. Ordered it last week and took a week to get here from California. First impressions , this is a quality piano , the grand piano sound is full,rich and clear. The action is quick and responsive and easy to do lead riffs on.The keys have a great feel and make it easy to play precisely without fatiguing your fingers. The piano sound is a little bright for me but it has an eq section to take some of the highs out and boost the bass section.Personnaly I think it would be a good piano for going out and playing solo,and because of the brightness also cut through in a band setting.I really like this piano,Mike.

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#1967500 - 10/01/12 07:54 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
btcomm Offline
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Just curious what you paid for the ES7?

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#1967646 - 10/02/12 05:21 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: btcomm]
JFP Offline
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Loc: The Netherlands
Got my ES7 with stand and pedal unit. I assume first batch. Not much time to spend with it yet but my first thoughts:

Pro:
1) very nice cabinet. Especially with stand and pedals. Well designed and made. Edit : on second thought - yes - very nice indeed ;-)
2) nice basic sounds , effects have indeed improved. The basic sound set Kawai has chosen is exactly what I need. Just miss my Jazz Grand ;-(
3) nice EP2 sound. Perhaps it's the same as on my MP6, but it simply sounds much better.
4) Repetition very much improved over the RH keybed ; the response is very fast !
5) Speakers with more than enough power, although they look rather small. Sound quite good.

Cons:
1) Key travel - this is less compared to my RH on the MP6. I really don't like it that it bottoms earlier. I don't understand how adding a third sensor has made is necessary to limit the key travel. Perhaps its not even that much of a difference, but it certainly feels that way to me.
2) General keybed build quality; there is more spacing between the keys and they are also unequaly spaced among different key ranges. My MP6 had the most tight keybed in that respect; it looked absolutely perfect. Not a big deal, just what I noticed.
3) Key noise; the RHII on the ES7 bottoms out harder, making more thumb noise. This was a big pro on the MP6 - the most quiet keybed I knew so far. Now the advantage over Roland is gone in that respect. I think it's the combination of the keybed and the casing of the ES7 , that simply makes more noise. Would be interesting to know if the other Kawais with RHII make the same sound. No deal breaker, just a detail.
4) Speakers are powerful , but with a some low-mid boost. Even with EQ on mid-cut or user adjusted EQ there is some emphasize on the mid-low frequencies. Hard to expect perfect sound from BI speakers. Perhaps the fact that they are oval is a reason for some unwanted frequency intermodulations / resonances. In general they are not bad.

In short;
the speed of the keybed is impressive and light, but somehow I can't connect with the keys as much as before, because of the (perceived?) shorter key travel. The thumb noise and spacing is more of a cosmetic / audible annoyance that I can live with. Could be that one unit is a bit noisier (like mine) than others.

Have to play with the ES7 a bit more; hope the keybed grows on me. It's a very nice instrument in general and it also looks good !!


Edited by JFP (10/04/12 04:34 PM)

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#1967650 - 10/02/12 05:41 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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Interesting, thanks for posting your initial thoughts.

I'm not aware of any structural or material changes to the RHII action other than the additional sensor. Nor should the key dip or action noise be any different. However I will try to check these points tomorrow.

How does the keyboard compare with the ES7 prototype you played a few weeks ago?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1967671 - 10/02/12 08:05 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
anotherscott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: JFP
I don't understand how adding a third sensor has made is necessary to limit the key travel so much.

If there was a change in key travel, I don't see any reason to assume that it's because of adding the third sensor, it could be a decision made for other reasons.

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#1967776 - 10/02/12 01:48 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: anotherscott]
pianomike Offline
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Regarding the Kawai action and the roland action ,I have the gx and it bottoms out hard but the Kawai es7 is deffinetly softer at the bottom than the roland.The action compared to my roland is easier to play and faster.

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#1967805 - 10/02/12 03:26 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Maybe it's my unit. It doesn't bother me too much. Just noisier than what I was used to. And a perceived shorter key travel, whether that is technically true or not. On the MP6 the standard touch curve was just fine for the RH. Now I have to fiddle around with custom curves to get the same level of response back, whenever I find the time. For now I just set it to "heavy" , which works a bit better to me than 'normal'.

Overall nice instrument. I'll write a full review when I have more time and know the ES a bit better.

In short I found the MP6 right on spot for my hands from the first moment and only gradually found out that the keybed was a bit slow for fast repetitions. Other than that I felt at home right away with the touch . With the ES7 I have to work more to get to like the keybed overall, it's definitely faster and perhaps better and also lighter and much easier to play, but somehow I have problems to "connect" with the touch. Maybe my hands and mind are made for a keybed that is more on the heavy side, but nevertheless I had the feeling that I had more delicate dynamic control over the RH. The verb I put on that for now is deeper key travel => bit more control over dynamic range. Trade in in speed and easiness for more delicate dynamic control.

It's personal and I may change my opinion 180 degrees when I have have spend more time on the ES. It's first impressions after all ;-)

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#1967811 - 10/02/12 03:40 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
pv88 Offline
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Registered: 08/31/10
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Originally Posted By: JFP
In short I found the MP6 right on spot for my hands from the first moment and only gradually found out that the keybed was a bit slow for fast repetitions.


You are right, as the MP6 only has a two-sensor action, not three.

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#1968328 - 10/03/12 05:13 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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I'm still wondering if the RH II has some structural changes from the RH other than the addition of the 3rd sensor ?! It feels so much different. I described it as less key travel, but perhaps my mind is tricking me, although I find that hard to believe. Any info on that will be welcome, so I know if I'm just imagining things or not...

j

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#1968790 - 10/04/12 04:45 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Update: I think I can get used to the RH II, it's like switching cars or motor cycles. They can both be good, but you have to adjust your 'driving style' a bit. Still have a nasty problem with HF noise on the speakers that will be fixed by Kawai (great service!) and a question here that hopefully other ES7 users can answer.

I bought the ES for the RH II keybed, the speakers and...the audio input. The latter because I intended to use software instruments with the ES as well, playing over the internal speakers. Fr instance layering pianoteq over the Kawai grand as I have done before. All coming from the same cabinet speakers I assumed it would blend naturally and nicely with the instrument, but...

The audio input on my unit sounds horrible . The sound is flat, totally lacks bass and transparency, sound like band filtered and and a bit distorted at times. I wonder if it is my unit In particular, or a weakness of the ES in general. I hope the first and also that it is fixable like the HF noise problem. I want to keep the ES but also hope that I can use it as I intended.

By the way I used several different devices as input, changed the wiring, used decouples etc. didn't make a difference. Same file played as audio from a USB stick sounds fine over the ES.


Edited by JFP (10/04/12 05:31 PM)

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#1969346 - 10/06/12 05:39 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
pv88 Offline
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Registered: 08/31/10
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Originally Posted By: JFP
Still have a nasty problem with HF noise on the speakers that will be fixed by Kawai ... and also that it is fixable like the HF noise problem.


What exactly is "HF" above... does this mean "High Frequency?"

I can't be for certain as of yet, although I think I am hearing a fuzzy sound on my new CA95 (mostly in the mid-range notes, just above middle C), and, haven't been able to determine what it is I am perceiving.

Perhaps it could just be the metallic sounds of the piano strings that have a buzzing-like quality to them, however, I am not so sure on how to clean up the sound to make things clear and not as fuzzy.

Hope that this isn't speaker distortion similar to what is being described above, and, a general question:

Has anyone else heard a fuzzy, or, not so clear sound, on their CA63 / CA93, or, CA65 / CA95?

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#1969358 - 10/06/12 07:03 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: pv88]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
Originally Posted By: pv88
Originally Posted By: JFP
Still have a nasty problem with HF noise on the speakers that will be fixed by Kawai ... and also that it is fixable like the HF noise problem.


What exactly is "HF" above... does this mean "High Frequency?"

I can't be for certain as of yet, although I think I am hearing a fuzzy sound on my new CA95 (mostly in the mid-range notes, just above middle C), and, haven't been able to determine what it is I am perceiving.

Perhaps it could just be the metallic sounds of the piano strings that have a buzzing-like quality to them, however, I am not so sure on how to clean up the sound to make things clear and not as fuzzy.

Hope that this isn't speaker distortion similar to what is being described above, and, a general question:

Has anyone else heard a fuzzy, or, not so clear sound, on their CA63 / CA93, or, CA65 / CA95?

I also had some "fuzzy" / not clear sound on my CA93
I have now another DP (NU1) and the sound is crystal clear compared to my former CA93.
I also had some trouble with the sound board which made some "vibration parasite sound" for some note only.
At the end it started to disturb me, but I thought that the new sound engine of the CA95 would have solved the trouble.
Cheers
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#1969373 - 10/06/12 08:42 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
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Loc: The Netherlands
The HF noise is not depending on something you play. It is a distortion in the speaker output (when not playing) and increases when you increase the volume slider till midways and decreases till full volume setting. In other wordts most audible when the volume slider is halfways. I is an aknoledged problem on some units and can easily be fixed. Probably some shielding issue. Problem will be solved (in the end).

Second thing is that the audio input has a very flat, not transparent and somewhat stressed sound, lacking bass and brilliance. The lack of full range sound seems to be due to the fact that the internal sounds pass an EQ before being send to the speakers, whilst the audio-input does not pass this correction EQ. That would explain the bad sound quality when hearing audio from the input on the speakers. And an EQ correction before the input might solve that.

It does not however explain why the input sound still sounds bad on headphones. The low/mid/high balance is better, but the non-transparent , smaller and stressfull sound character is still there. When doing AB between the same recording through the audio in and from USB stick you can easily hear the difference (on headphone).

I traveled > 300km to see if my unit needed to be exchanged , but found out the the other ES had the same HF noise, although much less and that the audio input quality had the same issues as my unit. Went back with my original ES; waste of time and gasoline.

The ES7 is absolutely a great instrument, that seems to have some audio issues. One of them is easily solvable , but for the underperforming audio input quality I fear. Hope there will be a solution too, because my intention was to actually use it (for SW instruments) and not regard it as a gift that you'll probably never use. I wonder how other ES users are evaluating the audio input quality ? Could still be exemplary...

If you don't care about the audio input at all , the ES7 is a no brainer. Very good piano board over all, nice and sturdy design.


Edited by JFP (10/06/12 08:44 AM)

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#1969532 - 10/06/12 05:38 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: JFP
I'm still wondering if the RH II has some structural changes from the RH other than the addition of the 3rd sensor ?! It feels so much different. I described it as less key travel, but perhaps my mind is tricking me...


JFP, according to one of the keyboard engineers in R&D, the key travel of the RH and RHII actions are the same. He suggested that the reason you perceive them to feel different is because your MP6 was a couple of years old, and the key stop cushion had likely compressed a little over time, giving the impression of greater key dip.

Regarding the audio input sound, I've raised this query with the ES7 team and they're looking into it.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1969540 - 10/06/12 05:54 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Originally Posted By: pv88
although I think I am hearing a fuzzy sound on my new CA95 (mostly in the mid-range notes, just above middle C), and, haven't been able to determine what it is I am perceiving.


This is possibly the 'Damper Noise' sound heard when pressing the damper pedal, as discussed in the following thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1961258

Originally Posted By: pv88
Perhaps it could just be the metallic sounds of the piano strings that have a buzzing-like quality to them, however, I am not so sure on how to clean up the sound to make things clear and not as fuzzy.


First, try adjusting the 'Damper Noise' virtual technician parameter (e.g. to 'Off'), then try adjusting the various other parameters related to resonances and noises.

Originally Posted By: pv88
Hope that this isn't speaker distortion similar to what is being described above...


It's possible, however I believe JFP's ES7 issue is not related.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1969603 - 10/06/12 09:57 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
pv88 Offline
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Posts: 2725
[Edited]

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#1970026 - 10/07/12 08:51 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Regarding the audio input sound, I've raised this query with the ES7 team and they're looking into it.


According to the ES7 chaps in R&D, there is a digital equalizer between the tone generator and speaker amplifier which is used to optimise the internal sound system.

However, the ES7's Line In audio is analogue - it bypasses the digital equalizer and connects directly to the Line Out/Headphone output. For this reason the signal cannot be adjusted by the instrument's software.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1970031 - 10/07/12 09:06 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
sullivang Online   blank
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FWIW, I've noticed that the internal sounds on my (Casio) PX-330 sound fuller and more natural than the audio input - could be a similar issue.

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#1970033 - 10/07/12 09:25 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Yes, I expect so, although I would prefer to use the word 'characteristic' instead of 'issue'. wink

I recall Mike Martin from Casio America noting that the new PX-350 will record the Line In audio in addition to the internal sound when using the USB audio (WAV) recorder - that's quite a cool feature. Of the current Kawai models, only the MP10 and CA95 offer this functionality.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1970157 - 10/08/12 03:49 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Hi James,

I knew about the EQ from Kawai Germany. The 'character' thing is that also over headphones the sound is not clear; which doesn't have anything to do with the absence of a correction filter for the speaker playback. But we'll get it sorted out eventually - I hope.

All the rest is great with the ES7 - this is the only thing that bothers me. RH II I got used to. It's definitely different than RH (should be I guess), but very playable.

WIth the best cabling etc, the sound input sounds non-transparant, more compressed, stressed, bit more narrow in stereo depth and a sometimes a tiny bit distorted with great dynamics. It's easily audible when you AB between the source or a USB recording of the source and the same thing over line-in , using studio quality headphones.

Could be my unit, could be the design. That's what I'm trying to figure out..

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#1970161 - 10/08/12 04:08 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello JFP,

If you are already in contact with Kawai Germany on this matter, it's perhaps no longer necessary for me to get involved.

I hope you are able to find a resolution to your problem shortly.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1970178 - 10/08/12 06:26 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Hi James,

Thanks. I know it's perhaps not something to post on a forum. On the other hand I was trying to find out if I'm the only one having this 'special sound character ;-) of the audio input, or that other ES7 owners have the same experiencing the same thing.

Intended use is stand-alone (only internal sounds) and with software instruments (using the audio-in), therefore audio-in is a valuable feature for me. Others may not care, or not use it at all.

Some things have crossed in timing during the past few days, initially I didn't know about the EQ and went all the way to the dealer, to find the answer later in my email. The stressful sound has not been explained by it though. Enough on this.

The ES7 is otherwise a fine instrument which I would certainly recommend to test if anyone has the change to do so.

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#1971304 - 10/10/12 12:44 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
teiresias Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 11
I'm eager to give the ES7 a try (and maybe make it my first DP), but stock seems scarce at the moment, both locally and at the traditional online places as well (if they even have the thing listed in their offered products at all).

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#1971472 - 10/10/12 05:54 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
teiresias, may I ask where you're based?
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1973081 - 10/14/12 09:44 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
teiresias Offline
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Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 11
I'm in Hampton Roads in Virginia. Granted, I haven't been to the one Kawai retailer I know of down here, nor the one in Richmond I know of, but neither of them ever carried the portable Kawai products anyway so I wouldn't expect them to have it. I'm mainly talking about seeing the ES7 show up in the traditional online retailers people are used to perusing for Kawai products.

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#1973098 - 10/14/12 10:21 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
sandalholme Offline
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Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 783
Loc: Dorset, UK
Similar problem here in the UK. People on the forum are enthusiastic about Kawai DPs, but finding stockists is difficult enough, finding stockists with actual stock even more so.

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#1973239 - 10/14/12 05:31 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
teiresias, sandalholme, for information regarding Kawai dealers that stock the ES7, please contact the customer support departments of Kawai America and Kawai UK respectively:

http://kawaius.com/nav_links/contacts2010.html
http://www.kawai.co.uk/contact_en.htm

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1973475 - 10/15/12 07:30 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
sandalholme Offline
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Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 783
Loc: Dorset, UK
James, I don't want to be nit-picky - I got great service from Kawai UK for my RX2 - but I've been to the UK site. No list of stockists, no facility to put in a post code and get a list, no contact form to fill in, no facility for emailing. (As far as I could see)

So the only way is to phone up and pay the cost of a long distance call. Not a very 20th century way of presenting oneself, let alone 21st century. I do believe Kawai make great products but you don't make it easy for potential customers to try them!

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#1973496 - 10/15/12 08:48 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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sandalholme, a UK dealer search feature is currently in development. In the mean time, the 'Contact' page lists separate email addresses for sales, servicing, and technical support:

http://www.kawai.de/contact_en.htm

Originally Posted By: sandalholme
I do believe Kawai make great products but you don't make it easy for potential customers to try them!


Well, I can't argue with that, I'm afraid...
But hey, it could be worse - you could be a Nord fan living in Japan!

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1973530 - 10/15/12 10:31 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
sandalholme Offline
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Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 783
Loc: Dorset, UK
Many thanks James. The first link works and I may yet find a dealer with stock less than 100 miles away!

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#1973683 - 10/15/12 04:54 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
sandalholme, happy to help!

Please do give the dealer(s) a call to check that they have the instrument in stock before setting out. I would also recommend contacting Kawai UK, just in case there are other shops not listed on the dealer locator.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1977136 - 10/22/12 02:30 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
fiatlux Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15
I am shopping for a first dp under 2000€ and was initially looking at the roland hp 503 and yamaha clp 430. Liked a kawai ca65 but that was over budget, and wife decided a "home piano" would not look good at home. She preferred (or disliked less) a stage piano on stand.

Enters the es-7 as a contender. Would a roland fp-7f be any better (still within budget)? I'd love an mp10, but that's again over budget and the add'l powered speakers would ruin its WAF.

Any recommendation?
_________________________
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#1977166 - 10/22/12 03:58 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
ES7 is a really sleek and non-intrusive design with the Kawai stand and three pedal unit. The music stand that comes with the accessories is translucent, so visually not filling in any space either. Even with the stand it is still very easy to move the set around in the room. Try that with a full cabinet.

Is it better than/ equal to the FP7. Well - at least it is cheaper over here. I think the keybeds are on par - but also a bit different ; meaning you have to choose what you like. The piano sound is a bigger difference. The Roland is technically more advanced, but you have to like it - because it is sometimes just a little bit artificial. The Kawai is taken from a total other grand and pure technically a bit aging; again a matter of taste; they both sound good.

When the 'features' I personally have with my ES7 unit are worked out , or at least someone can tell me what could possibly be going on in the amp system, I would finally be 100% happy with the ES7. On the other hand, the FP7 might have an 'thingie' too - you never know on beforehand; but the FP7 is around longer, so some production revisions may have been made already.

Tough choice. I'm afraid you would have to try them both ( standard answer, but true). If they don't have an ES together with the pedal unit and stand, I can PM a picture of the ES set in a real room. Just to get an impression.

Hope this helps. Neither is bad I think....

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#1977232 - 10/22/12 06:28 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
btcomm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 278
Loc: California
I've been hoping to replace my 4 year old Roland FP-4 and after trying out many digitals including the FP-7F which I did not like because of the very hard bottoming out of the keys I finally thought I'm going to get the Kawai ES7. Everything about it seems just perfect for what I'm looking for. Wrong. There are 4 or 5 official Kawai dealers in my area (the San Francisco Bay Area) and 2 have never heard of it and the other 3 don't carry the ES7. Even though the piano on their websites they will not carry one in their store for me or anyone else to try out first. I was told I could buy one -- without trying it out -- yeh, right. I got the impression from one of the sales guys who was more up front with me that if a customer didn't like the piano they would be stuck with it somehow and that's why they won't have one in their store. It was like pulling teeth to get any info from any of these dealers concerning Kawai and they all said they had plenty of Rolands and Yamahas and other brands for me to try out. I have since given up on Kawai if this is what it's going to be like to buy another digital. I'm envious that a few others have been able to actually see and try one out. Not anywhere in my area.

Back to the drawing board.

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#1977247 - 10/22/12 07:12 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
btcomm, may I suggest that you contact Kawai America to enquire into dealers that do stock the ES7 in your area.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1977249 - 10/22/12 07:17 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Emil M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 7
In the US only certain Kawai dealers have them up on demo, and have them in stock.

In Los Angeles, http://www.pierresfinepianos.com should have them.

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#1977407 - 10/23/12 03:21 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Couldn't you just order it ? It seems it's "just perfect for what I'm looking for" as you said. And its not a bad board. The FP7f you already tried and didn't like, so there's not awful lot else to choose from. You could perhaps try a PX-350 , but at least for the looks the FP7 and ES7 are better...(in case that's an argument too).

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#1977470 - 10/23/12 08:04 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
fiatlux Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15
Originally Posted By: JFP
Tough choice. I'm afraid you would have to try them both ( standard answer, but true). If they don't have an ES together with the pedal unit and stand, I can PM a picture of the ES set in a real room. Just to get an impression.


Thanks. I tested the ES7 (well I'm a beginner, so I asked the seller to play something, then just tested the keyboard) at a store selling Kawai but that's not really close to where I live.

I also tested the FP7F closer to where I live but that was days apart from the Kawai test. Hardly an easy A-B comparison.

I would love to give my money to a local business, but the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced the full ES7 set at Thomann (keyboard, stand, three pedals and bench) is a pretty good deal.
_________________________
Yamaha CLP 440 - M-Audio Keyrig 49 on Mac or iPad

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#1977498 - 10/23/12 09:25 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
fiatlux Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15
By the way, should I eventually buy from a local store (Belgium, Europe) instead of online (most likely Thomann.de), would it be realistic to bargain a bit on the price?

I was suprised to see that the store prices were more or less identical to online ones.
_________________________
Yamaha CLP 440 - M-Audio Keyrig 49 on Mac or iPad

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#1977514 - 10/23/12 09:57 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
btcomm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 278
Loc: California
Sure, I guess I could just order it sight unseen but it sure would be nice if I could at least see one first. It looks like the closest dealer that has one to see is about 500 miles away from me and not worth it to me. I'll have to think about it more regarding just ordering it. I may just end up doing it and hoping for the best. Thanks for your thoughts.

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#1977569 - 10/23/12 12:37 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
Radion Romanovich Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 39
Quote:
The piano sound is a bigger difference. The Roland is technically more advanced


Care to elaborate on qualitative differences in sound? In what aspects of playing do these technicalities outshine its competitors, and what would these be (sympathetic resonance, nuances of touch, sound decay)?

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#1977873 - 10/24/12 06:19 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
SoftFloor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 72
Originally Posted By: JFP

You could perhaps try a PX-350 , but at least for the looks the FP7 and ES7 are better.


I would be very interested to hear about the differences between PX-350 and ES7, especially which action is more realistic.
As I can buy them but can't try them (so far?) either.
As to the sound - at least there are youtube videos smile
And Kawai sounds pretty good in those videos (unless the sound is recorded from the internal speakers).
PX-350 may not be a huge improvement over PX-330.
I don't like the midrange of PX-330 - approximately two octaves from the middle C up. And of course, the lack of sustain. This at least is improved in PX-350.

But mostly I am interested in comparison between ES7 and PX-350.
Both have new actions so it would be good to hear from somebody who tried both.

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#1977918 - 10/24/12 09:09 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: SoftFloor]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3446
Originally Posted By: SoftFloor
especially which action is more realistic

When I first played Kawai's MP10, I didn't think it was especially realistic. Then, as chance would have it, a client had rented a Kawai baby grand for me to play at a gig... I sat down and played it and thought, hey, this kind of reminds me of the Kawai DP! ;-) So the answer to which feels more realistic may also depend on what real pianos you're comparing it to. I found the MP10 a bit heavy/slow feeling, but as it happens, that's what I ending up thinking about the "real" Kawai as well... they were both heavier feeling than the acoustics I've typically played, and so I ended up thinking that the Kawai was closer to "a real piano" than I had given it credit for.

So it is very possible that the ES7 and PX350 could be about equally "realistic" yet still noticeably different from each other, and your sense of its realism could depend on what real piano you're comparing it to. I will add that, IMO, the PX350 seemed more in the range of feeling like a real piano than the PX330 did. In fact, the 350 kind of reminded me of a lighter feeling, harder bottoming MP10 (though not as hard bottoming as, say, an FP-7F). And to throw one more kink into this, apart from how realistic the action physically feels, there is also a kind of subjective sense of how the action connects with the sound, which can vary as well.

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#1992124 - 11/28/12 08:11 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: anotherscott]
TubularBills Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/28/12
Posts: 9
Loc: France
Hi,

I'm considering to buy the Kawai ES7. At first I was very attracted to the Nord Piano 2, mostly for the EPs. I also liked all the knobs easily accessible in real time. But I disliked the action. Then I really loved the roland 700NX action and was ready to buy it. But now the ES7 is out, with an action that seems just as good, and a price which is way cheaper...

Here's my question. What do you think of the ES7 EP sounds ? Will I be able to get dirty, almost distorded rhodes sounds ?
What about the effects, are they easy to tweak ?

At some point I was also considering the Kurzweil PC3K, because it's good in every category : AP, EP, B3 sounds.

BTW, that's my other question : what do you think of the ES7 organ sounds ?

Thanks !

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#1992246 - 11/29/12 02:31 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
EP's and Organs are good, but there's only a few of them. On a Kurzweil you have tons of EP sounds and a delicate drawbar simulation with yet another big set of presets. But it's comparing apple and pears; pc3k is a workstation, he ES7 a portable DP. For better keybed and acoustic piano sound, the ES 7 is so much better than the PC3, but in terms of extra sounds and feature set, the pc3k is playing in a whole other league. I think you should make up your mind first about what you're actually looking for.

If you need organ simulation and a good stage piano you might consider the Kawai MP6. It lacks the third sensor of the RH II keybed, but other than that it is a very good all round alternative (good ap and EP piano and good organs + nice controls). Kurzweil has no third sensor either FYI

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#1992247 - 11/29/12 02:41 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
+1
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1992250 - 11/29/12 02:59 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
@softfloor,

as an ES7 owner, I posted my initial thoughts on the PX-150 keybed and piano sound in the thread Casio PX-150 keyed and grand piano. The piano sound and keybed are the same on the px-350. Can't comment on the additional features of the 350 - they didn't have it on display.

IMHO , the current Kawai and Roland and more expensive Yamaha boards are still better than Casio, but the Casio is pretty good in itself and in such a different price and weight range that it all depends on where your preferences are. If you need a good piano keybed of only 11kg , there's not much else that's better. If you can handle more weight and have more money in your pocket, there's much more competition and in nicer, more classy packages with better amplification. You get what you pay for, but I think Casio is offering a lot for the money in terms of keybed and AP sounds, combined with low weight. Some people reported flaws in their particular units. It happens and there's also a bias to report problems in a thread (I'm guilty of that as well), but the unit I tested had zero issues. Let these reports not hold you back to buy any brand piano, as long as the after sales conditions are good , just in case there's a problem (quick fix , exchange or refund).

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#1992363 - 11/29/12 11:07 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Qbert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 328
Loc: Italy
I like the bundle, with cabinet and 3 pedals (Kawai F-301). Is the sustain pedal a switch or continuous?
_________________________
GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m

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#1992368 - 11/29/12 11:20 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
TubularBills Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/28/12
Posts: 9
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: JFP
pc3k is a workstation, he ES7 a portable DP. For better keybed and acoustic piano sound, the ES 7 is so much better than the PC3, but in terms of extra sounds and feature set, the pc3k is playing in a whole other league. I think you should make up your mind first about what you're actually looking for.


I guess my hesitation comes from the fact that I'm taking piano lessons and I want to develop a good technique by practicing on a good "piano" - OTOH I'm hoping to gig soon using rather rhodes sounds (and occasionnally the organ).

The MP6 might be the good compromise. At least until some manufacturer comes up with the ideal instrument combining 1/good keybed 2/ good APs 3/ good EPs 4/ controls !

Is there a Kawai MP7 on the way ?

Thanks for the advice.

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#1992484 - 11/29/12 04:04 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Quote: "At least until some manufacturer comes up with the ideal instrument combining 1/good keybed 2/ good APs 3/ good EPs 4/ controls "

Well that sums up roughly what the MP6 is about, so....

And there is always (!) something new around the corner, be it from Kawai or any other brand. The moment you bought something is the moment you know something new is on its way, so at some point you just have to decide if you need a certain product right now and if one of the products readily available will meet your requirements (sort of).

Will there be new products at NAMM and/or the next show and the next event ; yes sure. Do you want to wait and can you wait ; that's only for you to decide.

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#2006873 - 12/31/12 04:33 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
René Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 2
Hi all,

This is my first post here. I am a beginning pianist, really without any experience. The Kawai ES7 caught my attention as a decent digital piano for beginners.

I have a question that I cannot find the answer for (not even in the manual): since my girl friend would also like to learn to play the piano, we really like the 4 hands option that splits the keyboard in two 44 key pianos. However, it is unclear to me whether we can also just listen to ourselves playing without hearing the "other 44 keys". In one of the video reviews on Youtube they said that the piano can also be used to teach two students at the same time, but this feature wasn't explained in much detail. I guess it wouldn't really help us if we could hear each other playing the piano while trying to do so our selves too.

Edit: That question was answered on Youtube: no, sound is not split. Too bad, would have been an interesting feature for families where more than one person would like to learn to play the piano.

Edit2: Didn't see your response yet Kawai James, thanks for your response. Do you think a feature like this could be added through a firmware update?

Offtopic: JFP, is that your ES7 that is currently for sale on Marktplaats.nl?


Edited by René (12/31/12 07:36 AM)

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#2006878 - 12/31/12 05:00 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello René,

The 'Four Hands Mode' feature splits the keyboard into two 44-key sections with the same playing range, as you correctly note.

However, the sound is not 'split', meaning that person 'A' can still hear what person 'B' is playing - even when using separate pairs of headphones. This is largely intentional, however I agree that it would be a useful feature for the two 44-key sections to output sound to either headphone jack independently.

Ah, and good spot on JFP's ES7 too, by the way!

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2022694 - 01/28/13 08:35 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
René Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 2
I'll be ordering a brand new ES7 (black) tomorrow. The past couple of weeks my girlfriend and I have visited two Kawai-dealers. One was very pushy about buying the ES7 right now, but had no alternatives in the show room and I don't like pushy salesmen, so we'll order it elsewhere. In the other shop we also saw the CP300 of Yamaha (also wanted to see/feel the CP33, but it was sold out). The CP300 is and looks really bulky compared to the Kawai. Could be a great stage piano though, but the looks are nowhere near as sleek as those of the ES7, which is important to us as well, because it will be placed in the living room.

In terms of keyboard action, both (ES7 and CP300) feel like an acoustic piano to us, but we are in no way experts since we have absolutely no experience playing the piano. It's just that it feels much like I remember the Yamaha grand piano of my father-in-law. Other instruments included are not really interesting to us. Of course we'll play the odd song with an EP, but primarily we plan to play with the AP's smile

We got an offer to buy it as a set with the stand and the 3 pedals, with a free piano bench (worth € 79) for € 1650, which I think is a great deal. It matches most of the online offerings, so I guess in about a week we will be the proud owners of an ES7! we really cannot wait to play the first bits of Alfred's Self-Teaching Adult Piano Course Volume 1 on it wink

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#2022707 - 01/28/13 08:53 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
René, congrats on your new piano.

I think that €1650 is a pretty good deal for the ES7, matching stand and pedals, and piano bench.

Good luck with your new hobby!

Take care,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2033620 - 02/15/13 09:48 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
mello's Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1

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#2058530 - 04/03/13 03:28 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Vasi Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 2
I live in Latvia. And i have problem with kawai es7 keys surface. After 6 month it flake off on some keys. what do you think will it be covered by warranty or do i need to live with it?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vasilyk/8616096858/in/photostream

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#2058534 - 04/03/13 03:47 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9682
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Vasi, please contact the dealer from where the instrument was purchased and report this issue.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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