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#1912368 - 06/12/12 01:35 PM The V(itriol) Thread
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3020
Loc: Oregon
To enable the proponents and detractors of the V-Piano to "get it off their chest" while the rest of the members go about their virtual business unmolested, here is a thread dedicated to such verbal fisticuffs. When you feel like lashing out in another, hitherto mild-mannered thread, just come here instead!

And in the blue corner we have...
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#1912404 - 06/12/12 03:10 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2320
Loc: UK
I'll start. V piano is overpriced rubbish with weak thin sounding mid range that is certainly supernatural because it does not sound like a real piano at all. wink

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#1912407 - 06/12/12 03:20 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
Irmin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 7
Loc: South Africa
V-Piano Sucks. Why would anyone spend so much on something that sounds like a toy piano being played inside a bucket?

Just buy PianoTeq. Now that's a supernatural sound!!!!!
_________________________
Acoustic: Restored Blüthner Grand - 1889
Keyboards: Korg M3-88, Korg Radius, Korg Trinity
Software: Pianoteq Stage+Blüthner addon, Vintage D, 4Front TruePianos, VILabs True Keys American
I need: Kawai VPC1

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#1912411 - 06/12/12 03:39 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3786
Loc: North Carolina
I've always thought that PIANOTEQ sounds like a toy piano being played inside a bucket ... well, inside a barrel, I think. With a wet blanket covering the barrel.

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#1912425 - 06/12/12 04:16 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
legatoboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Huntington,LI New York
Well it's just a overpriced DP desigend to get us to spend more on DP's just like $4 gas at the pump is, why 7K, why so much $$ Roland? I've played it twice! It was ok but not 7K ok!


Edited by legatoboy (06/12/12 04:55 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha YUX Upright, Yamaha CP50, Roland FP-80, Pianoteq Stage, Yamaha P-105,
Hammond XK-2, Korg CX-3 (ver.2), Leslie 145 w/Speakeasy PreAmp , 1964 Hammond B3/122RV Leslie

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#1912427 - 06/12/12 04:27 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: MacMacMac]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4335
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
I've always thought that PIANOTEQ sounds like a toy piano being played inside a bucket ... well, inside a barrel, I think. With a wet blanket covering the barrel.

Uh, this is the V-Piano sucks / is the best thing since sliced bread thread. For more general DP bashing try this thread.
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The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1912439 - 06/12/12 05:00 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3020
Loc: Oregon
Come on you supporters! Don't let Round 1 go to the bashers!!!
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#1912442 - 06/12/12 05:20 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
legatoboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Huntington,LI New York
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Come on you supporters! Don't let Round 1 go to the bashers!!!


Then again the PHA III Ivory Feel keyboard with Escapement action knocked me out!

So as it goes with most DP's, you love this part and hate the other part of the instrument!

So I guess I'm my own detractor and promoter of the V Piano!
_________________________
Yamaha YUX Upright, Yamaha CP50, Roland FP-80, Pianoteq Stage, Yamaha P-105,
Hammond XK-2, Korg CX-3 (ver.2), Leslie 145 w/Speakeasy PreAmp , 1964 Hammond B3/122RV Leslie

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#1912483 - 06/12/12 07:39 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I really love the V-Piano. I've often said so....
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1912493 - 06/12/12 08:13 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
36251 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 719
whoever designed the keys should consider a different job. I've never played a piano with real ivory keys that looked or felt like the keys on the V. They went too far with the raised grain finish.

The V only has the acoustic piano sound. Where's the strings and the vibes patch?

Why didn't they design a music rack?

It's too expensive but that's probably Roland who decided that if they charge that much people will think it's something really different from the pack - sound like some people did drink the punch.


Edited by 36251 (06/12/12 08:14 PM)
_________________________
AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

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#1912565 - 06/12/12 11:33 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3480
Loc: Pennsylvania
What's up with the keytops wearing out? Not what you expect on a high end piano. Actually I hate all Roland Ivory Feel keys. The texture is very un-pianolike to me. Give me plain plastic any day of the week instead of that.

The sound of the V...it's ok. Not amazing, but nowhere near as offensive as PianoTeq. However, I think higher end sampled pianos (yes, even oboard ones) sound better than the V, all things considered.


Edited by gvfarns (06/12/12 11:33 PM)

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#1912634 - 06/13/12 02:10 AM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
The V-piano blows dogs ... smokin


Edited by Dr Popper (06/13/12 02:10 AM)
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1912672 - 06/13/12 05:23 AM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
bennevis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4825
The V-Piano is too black, too heavy, has too many keys (after all, Mozart made do with far fewer keys on his Walter), and too good to ever be replaced cry.

On the other hand, the AG has 'authentic key action' (only it isn't authentic and it's too heavy and stiff to play fast repeated notes - just compare with the CFX), and sounds really good (except when you play classical music that makes great demands on the instrument and the pianist), is nice and heavy (so can't get stolen easily), and stops you playing too loud (it just about reaches ff and no more, no matter how hard you bang) so you don't deafen yourself involuntarily, and, er,....well, that's about it (as Victor Borge would say grin).

But I love the AG, I really do.

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#1912825 - 06/13/12 12:12 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: bennevis]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
The V-Piano has the REALLY COOL feature of the big ass surface area for placing computer monitor, keyboard and mouse. Very considerate of the engineers to design the instrument this way, so that it is convenient to replace the internal sounds with whatever software piano. In fact, the area is so large that it can even accommodate some small audio monitors. Such thoughtfulness on the part of Roland. Kudos!

Lawrence
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1912873 - 06/13/12 01:35 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: bennevis]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3480
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: bennevis
[the AG] stops you playing too loud (it just about reaches ff and no more, no matter how hard you bang) so you don't deafen yourself involuntarily


It sounds like you are saying that it's easy to reach velocity 128. I thought this was not the case. One of the claimed innovations of the AG is that the velocity curve doesn't hit 128 until you really hit those keys with a superhuman blow--so there's plenty of super loud velocities available. There are plenty of DP's that max out before you want them to, but your comment is the first time I've heard people say this about the AG. Quite the contrary, people usually complain that it's annoyingly difficult to hit it hard enough to reach the highest MIDI values. Is that what you intended to say?

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#1912876 - 06/13/12 01:40 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: Melodialworks Music]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
The V-Piano has the REALLY COOL feature of the big ass surface area for placing computer monitor, keyboard and mouse. Very considerate of the engineers to design the instrument this way, so that it is convenient to replace the internal sounds with whatever software piano.


Maybe Roland should redesign the V-Piano with a little slot labelled "insert realistic piano sounds here".

Or perhaps some analogue ins would be good, then bennevis could play along with his 8 track cartridges of The Carpenters.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1912929 - 06/13/12 03:51 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
HwyStar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 323
EssBrace: LMAO!

(Bennevis is a Good Sport and has always been a great guy!)

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#1912943 - 06/13/12 04:11 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: gvfarns]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Originally Posted By: bennevis
[the AG] stops you playing too loud (it just about reaches ff and no more, no matter how hard you bang) so you don't deafen yourself involuntarily


It sounds like you are saying that it's easy to reach velocity 128. I thought this was not the case.


You are right. You have to hit the keys so hard it hurts to hit the top velocity.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1912983 - 06/13/12 05:05 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: Melodialworks Music]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 539
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
The V-Piano has the REALLY COOL feature of the big ass surface area for placing computer monitor, keyboard and mouse. Very considerate of the engineers to design the instrument this way, so that it is convenient to replace the internal sounds with whatever software piano. In fact, the area is so large that it can even accommodate some small audio monitors. Such thoughtfulness on the part of Roland. Kudos!

Lawrence


love this. yes, its a great place to put a pizza while composing. and the ivory feel keys interact with your greasy fingers quite well.

i actually do keep my laptop, reading lamp and cookbook music book holder (see below) in various places on the mammoth surface...

of course- there wasn't enough room for the engineers to put a sheet music stand. you have to order next years XL version to get that.
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1913098 - 06/13/12 08:20 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
vegasE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 226
Loc: Sydney, AU
OK, so, wet mid range, grease trap keys, and obscene price - all forgivable.

But the main reason i dont have one? It's SN sound is missing 2 key fundamental features - looping and stretching.

Come on. Only REAL DP's are looped and stretched.

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#1913138 - 06/13/12 09:49 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
The V is a marvellous piece of engineering. The sound behaviour is the best in any DP and the connection is nearly identical to an acoustic. I happen to like the look, and I think the PHA III feels superb in it.

Where the V falls short is the sterile metallic sound and near total absence of mid range. I've spent hours and hours, even using bennevis's settings to no avail. Roland really has something great, it just needs some polishing. Some of the VPG videos I've seen are nearly indistinguishable from acoustic grand piano sounds. They need to evolve the modelling technology, which is only bound to happen.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#1913408 - 06/14/12 10:52 AM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: gvfarns]
bennevis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4825
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Originally Posted By: bennevis
[the AG] stops you playing too loud (it just about reaches ff and no more, no matter how hard you bang) so you don't deafen yourself involuntarily


It sounds like you are saying that it's easy to reach velocity 128. I thought this was not the case. One of the claimed innovations of the AG is that the velocity curve doesn't hit 128 until you really hit those keys with a superhuman blow--so there's plenty of super loud velocities available. There are plenty of DP's that max out before you want them to, but your comment is the first time I've heard people say this about the AG. Quite the contrary, people usually complain that it's annoyingly difficult to hit it hard enough to reach the highest MIDI values. Is that what you intended to say?


I don't know what MIDI values are, but I reach the upper limit of the AGs very easily (and I'm no Russian bear when it comes to hard-hitting pianism) - I just can't get a true ffff as I can from an acoustic grand, or my V-Piano. With acoustic pianos, the sound becomes more strident and harsh, as well as louder when you hit harder, and classical composers exploit this by requesting up to fffffff (as in Ligeti for example). The cheap uprights and baby grands reach that harsh level ('going through their tone') at lowish dynamic levels, which forces the pianist to tone down his dynamics unless he intends an ugly sound. Concert grands allow you to push the power much higher before their sound becomes very percussive. The AG simply doesn't allow you to get anywhere near that level (the level at which the sound becomes harsh) - you hit with all your might but the sound stays exactly the same. It's one of the annoying things about sampled DPs that keep reminding the pianist that what he's playing on isn't real - fine if you don't play demanding music, but a real damper on your ability to express the composer's intentions otherwise.

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#1913420 - 06/14/12 11:31 AM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
Peakly Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 213
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: voxpops
verbal fisticuffs.


I always liked that word - fisticuffs. I don't like fisticuffs, but the word funny.

I don't know anything about the V-Piano - I've never played one, heard one, or seen one that I can remember. I couldn't care less about them - that's too much money for a digital kbd. I'd rather spend a fourth of that, and use the rest for something else.

Mychal

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#1913423 - 06/14/12 11:40 AM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: PianoZac]
bennevis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4825
Originally Posted By: Zac Forbes
The V is a marvellous piece of engineering. The sound behaviour is the best in any DP and the connection is nearly identical to an acoustic. I happen to like the look, and I think the PHA III feels superb in it.

Where the V falls short is the sterile metallic sound and near total absence of mid range. I've spent hours and hours, even using bennevis's settings to no avail. Roland really has something great, it just needs some polishing. Some of the VPG videos I've seen are nearly indistinguishable from acoustic grand piano sounds. They need to evolve the modelling technology, which is only bound to happen.



The V-P Grand is identical in its sound generation to the original V-P - it just has speakers that are strategically placed in the cabinet and amplification equipment etc that are optimized for the V-P. So, if what you hear through the store's speakers or headphones sound 'sterile/metallic' or whatever, it can't be an inherant fault of the V-P if the VPG sounds like a real concert grand on some videos.

I could describe the sound of my V-P is several ways, depending on which of my settings I use (and a few of them are metallic sounding, because the original grands on which I based the settings do sound metallic to me - some acoustic pianos are like that, and some people like that kind of piano tone), but it also depends on which headphones I use too.

And interestingly, my classical friends who've tried out my V-Piano prefer one or two settings that I don't particularly care for, though they all agreed that the V behaves like a real piano in the way it responds to the touch, when it comes to actually playing it. Each to his/her own....

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#1913432 - 06/14/12 11:55 AM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: EssBrace]
bennevis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4825
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
... then bennevis could play along with his 8 track cartridges of The Carpenters.


I'm no good at carpentry or DIY in general. I just buy stuff off the shelf, ready-made, and the best I can find. Including DPs grin.

Because my life is so dependent on my gear when climbing, sky-diving, scuba-diving etc, etc (as you know), I can't afford to use any sub-par gear.

Including DPs grin.

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#1913495 - 06/14/12 02:31 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: bennevis]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4335
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Because my life is so dependent on my gear when climbing, sky-diving, scuba-diving etc, etc (as you know), I can't afford to use any sub-par gear.

Including DPs grin.

You climb, sky-dive, and scuba dive with a V-Piano tied to your back? smile
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1913502 - 06/14/12 02:44 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: dewster]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3020
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: dewster
You climb, sky-dive, and scuba dive with a V-Piano tied to your back? smile

Which falls faster: a ton of feathers or a ton of V?






Answer: neither, because they're both worth nothing after they leave the store. smile
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#1913586 - 06/14/12 06:20 PM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: bennevis]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: bennevis


The V-P Grand is identical in its sound generation to the original V-P -




Yeah it sounds like $hit too .....
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1913832 - 06/15/12 04:47 AM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: Dr Popper]
bennevis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4825
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: bennevis


The V-P Grand is identical in its sound generation to the original V-P -




Yeah it sounds like $hit too .....


....though not as smelly as the AG grin.

But I love the AG, I really do.

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#1913883 - 06/15/12 08:04 AM Re: The V(itriol) Thread [Re: voxpops]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
What do you love about the AG bennevis if I may ask? Can't be the sound, as you've pointed out its lack of dynamic range, and the action you feel is stiffer than any concert grand you've played. Not being smart, just curious. Surely the VPG has a bit more warmth than the VP with its speakers and cabinet.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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