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#1914931 - 06/17/12 01:26 PM Pianoteq 4 over soundboard speaker system from CA93 or CS9?
Upright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 142
Loc: Germany
I use Pianoteq with headphones since version 3. It terms of playability, it is a huge improvement over the onboard sound of the Kawai CN33. Although playability was great with version 3 its sound still was quite synthetically.

Now with version 4 they did a huge leap forward. It sounds a lot warmer and a lot more natural. But over the speakers of the CN33, it still does not make as much fun as over headphones. The sound over the speakers is less clear and defined compared to good headphones.

Has anybody tried to use Pianoteq 4 with a Kawai digital piano with a sound board speaker system like CA111, CA93 or CS9 over the speakers? What is your experience?
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#1914954 - 06/17/12 03:03 PM Re: Pianoteq 4 over soundboard speaker system from CA93 or CS9? [Re: Upright]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
Hello,
I have a CA93 and I am currently running pianoteq4 playing the sound through the CA93 speaker.
I have to say that I really enjoy it, the sound is really good.
It is not really "better" than internal tweaked sound, but it is "different" and really playable / enjoyable.
I can tune the sound much more precisely to get what I want.

For the moment, I am almost always running this solution, perhaps, when I will be bored by the pianoteq sound, or when I would like to "change" my habits, I will go back to internal sound

it is worth to try it, really

PS: I also had pianoteq 3 which I really did not appreciate (but that is the purpose of another topic)
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#1915086 - 06/17/12 11:49 PM Re: Pianoteq 4 over soundboard speaker system from CA93 or CS9? [Re: Upright]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Upright
...
Now with version 4 they did a huge leap forward. It sounds a lot warmer and a lot more natural. But over the speakers of the CN33, it still does not make as much fun as over headphones. The sound over the speakers is less clear and defined compared to good headphones.

Has anybody tried to use Pianoteq 4 with a Kawai digital piano with a sound board speaker system like CA111, CA93 or CS9 over the speakers? What is your experience?


I certainly would not buy a new DP just for it's internal speakers. Keep the CN33 and pianoteq but just buy new speakers. External speakers are the best way to improve any DP. I have some relatively inexpensive ones the seem to work well for use with a DP.

I'm using the Polk R50 speakers with a 50WPC amp in a small music room and the sound is very good. But it's an smallish studio room. The R50 is about the lowest price speaker that is still really good. They are MUCH better then those studio monitor type speakers. One think is the hight of the tweeter. On this model it is on top of the stack. (on the Polk M50 it is lower) These go on sale for $109 now and then


For I also tried some Polk M70 speakers with my DP but they were not much use in a small room, But if you needed to fill a 25 foot square room then you might consider something like them and a 100WPC amp. That combination could give you sound volume approaching the level of an acoustic piano.

But my R50 spears are ideal for practice. I find I can't use headphone for fine running dynamics, I need to hear the sound in speakers of that. Otherwise I used headphones.

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#1915094 - 06/18/12 12:26 AM Re: Pianoteq 4 over soundboard speaker system from CA93 or CS9? [Re: ChrisA]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
Ok, I have to say that I did not intend to use pianoteq when I bought the CA93, however, I would now do the same choice, as there is something you will not get through external monitor : the "sound feeling" through the piano keyboard.

I had previously a MP6, and I tried to connect it to external monitor, I was always disappointed by the result: it is like playing "a dead piano".
Now, perhaps I did something wrong with this assembling..



Edited by enzo.sandrolini (06/18/12 12:26 AM)
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#1915111 - 06/18/12 02:33 AM Re: Pianoteq 4 over soundboard speaker system from CA93 or CS9? [Re: Upright]
Upright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 142
Loc: Germany
Thank you for your replies, Enzo and Chris. Some time ago, I experimented with external speakers for the digital piano. But they did not produce a feeling like the sound of an instrument. It was rather like listening to a piano sound from a stereo.

I hope to get from a CA93 or from a CS9 a more spatial sound like that radiated from an acoustic piano. I have not heard one of them in real life yet, so I don't know I they deliver the promise.

What I like of Pianoteq is that it behaves very much like an acoustic. It is not just playing some prerecorded notes with some added string resonance simulation. The notes very much interact naturally together.

That is why I am curious, if Pianoteq 4 may improve the piano sound. I would also appreciate a response from a CS9 user.
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Piano parts and Accessories - www.pianosupply.de

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#1915133 - 06/18/12 05:06 AM Re: Pianoteq 4 over soundboard speaker system from CA93 or CS9? [Re: Upright]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
Hello Upright,
I can see that we had exactly the same feeling using a piano with monitors; its sound like listening to piano from a CD player (except that I am not playing as good as on the CD grin )
But why are you looking for experience from CS9 users ? is the sound of the CS9 different from the CA93 ? I thought it was just a matter of cabinet form and polish, as they share same sound board.
I am wrong ?
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#1915139 - 06/18/12 05:41 AM Re: Pianoteq 4 over soundboard speaker system from CA93 or CS9? [Re: enzo.sandrolini]
Upright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 142
Loc: Germany
Looking at the specs and the cabinet, it should not be a huge difference. There is one difference though with the speakers. The CA93 has the speakers pointing towards the player. The CS9 has the speakers pointing upwards. I could imagine, this could create another impression of spatial sound. A comment from someone, who knows both would be interesting.
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#1918360 - 06/25/12 03:24 AM Re: Pianoteq 4 over soundboard speaker system from CA93 or CS9? [Re: Upright]
Upright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 142
Loc: Germany
Anyone else additional to Enzo experimenting with Pianoteq 4?
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#1922099 - 07/03/12 07:37 AM Re: Pianoteq 4 over soundboard speaker system from CA93 or CS9? [Re: Upright]
Upright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 142
Loc: Germany
Today, I was in a piano shop testing out several pianos including CA93 and CS9 with the onboard sound as well as with Pianoteq 4.

General conclusion is: Pianoteq does not make an acoustic piano out of the CA93 or CS9.

More details: Somehow I was not completely impressed by the CS9. I examined the CA93 and saw, that the speaker placement is generally the same. The CA93 as well as the CS9 has some of the mid speakers pointing upwards. So the difference seems to be basically the design. Considering this, the CA93 currently is a bargain being 1300 Euros cheaper. But that is another story.

It maybe the placement of the pianos but it may be as well a point of case construction: I liked the sound of the CA93 more. The bass was not so dominant. With the CS9, the bass had the tendency to boom.

Pianoteq sounded very well over the speakers. But as I said in the beginning. The spatial sound was not that one of an acoustic piano.

So, if someone has the CA93, for 99 Euros, it may be worth playing around with Pianoteq. It is not a replacement for an acoustic piano, though.
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