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#1913102 - 06/13/12 08:31 PM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Good morning.

Quote:
子與人歌而善,必使反之,而後和之。

The good fellowship of Confucius.
When the Master was in company with a person who was singing, if he sang well, he would make him repeat the song, while he accompanied it with his own voice.
http://www.cnculture.net/ebook/jing/sishu/lunyu_en/07.html


This may be the most abused, most misinterpreted Confucius saying. Music is the second of Confucius' six subjects in education.

Quote:
The Six Arts formed the basis of education in ancient Chinese culture. During the Zhou Dynasty (1122–256 BCE), students were required to master the "liù yì" (六藝) (Six Arts):
Rites (禮)
Music (樂)
Archery (射)
Charioteering (御)
Calligraphy (書)
Mathematics (数)


Edited by Weiyan (06/13/12 09:12 PM)
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#1913260 - 06/14/12 03:12 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: Weiyan]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7430
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Weiyan
Just tune the octaves down to C1.

Its interesting to tune by fifth.

For example:
Tune A3->A2
Tune C3->A2 from narrow side, until there is marginal beat. The octave is ready.

After tuning the octaves, test by 10ths, they are nice and consistence. Test by chords, the voice is open.

OMG, some chords are sour. Actually some thirds out of control. Still take some more time to practice. The pin setting is next target.

Why its easy to crack? I found that a very slight crack in A3-A4 octave, the crack is enlarged in octaves. Fortunately, its easy to amend. Its easy to locate the crack.

Aflredo didn't tell me the procedure explicitly. Yesterday instruct me to tune the octaves, tune the fifth marginal narrow. After hours practice octaves, I get what you said. You seems a great teacher who never give explicit instruction, just let the student to discover it. How amazing.

I had asked Issac why call it pre-tuning instead temperament. Issac didn't give me an answer. Its better to let me discover the answer. After days of practice, I try to sum up my impression of CHAS.

For CHAS doesn't have temperament concept as ET do. In ET tuning, tune and fine tune temperament octave, then extend to octaves. Use this concept in CHAS is disaster.

In CHAS, all 88 notes is a temperament. Pre-tune A3-A4. When the progressions near OK, tune octaves. If fifth and octave cannot reconcile, there is a crack. Amend the crack.

Good night.





Hello Weyan, I like your comments there..

Sorry about the pre-tuning, it is a mean to anticipate the instrument settling, it uses the way the piano is reacting to more tension, that is why intervals are enlarged more than what is expected in the end.

When using that process , at each tuning you developp a feel for the settling of the piano, something that is computed by the ETD in PR mode and then be done by ear (you gain a better knowledge of the process, which differs in the bass and the high treble, hence the strip muting of only the mediums and the beginning of the treble.

It oblige the tuner to learn something new in terms of pitch appreciation but provide a way to work in one (longer) pass.

Thank you for your writings, that is refreshing.

I will listen later to your records but the little bit I heard let me say : "that is yet better than the last time..."

I recorded me unreasoning and correcting a vertical while going from 445 to 442 Hz (I forget to record since I finished the "pre tuning" ) I should edit the file as it is long (1 hour) because I work on tone quality , that slow the process.

http://soundcloud.com/olek-4/vertical-piano-atlas-unisoning

Best wishes

Isaac
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#1913317 - 06/14/12 07:07 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Hi Issac,

Sorry for the link is broken.

Better to ignore previous records. Tomorrows far better than yesterday's.

Today tune the whole piano. The voice is very open, may be too open. Tomorrow tune again and post some record.

The procedure I used to tune octave:

A4-A5:
Tune A5 from D5 to marginal beat at narrow side. Then check A4-A5 if it beats.

A3-A2:
Tune A2 to E3 to marginal beat at narrow side. Then check A3-A2.
Bass tune very nice. Parallel 8th is very open.

Also check with 10th.

Not sure if this method OK.

EDIT:
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/burgmuller114-june-2012
This record can give an impression of the tuning.

BYE.


Edited by Weiyan (06/14/12 07:19 AM)
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#1913369 - 06/14/12 09:36 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
alfredo capurso Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 1060
Loc: Sicily - Italy

Hi Weiyan,

Thank you for translating Confucius' saying, his depth is sound and silent. You have also added two words to my vocabulary: "jargon" and "amend". uoy knahT.

Let's see your fourths, where you did Self C.: "A#3-D#4, D#4-G#4 FAST, C4-F3(?4?) Slow"

A3-D4: about 2 bps, too wide
A#3-D#4: about 3.5 bps, too much, B3-D# is a bit sour, you were correct
B3-E4: almost Ok
C4-F4: almost just (beat-less), you were correct
C#4-F#4: about 8 bps, too much
D4-G4: about 2.5 bps, too much
D#4-G#4: about double the above, too much, you were correct
E4-A4: nice, a bit slow

Your base:

A3-A4: good, a bit shy, make it wider, you can always get it down (with a forte blow?)
A3-D4: perhaps wrong side?
D4-A4: too moving, wrong side?
A3-E4: nice!
E4-A4: shy, weak, make it more nervous;

Thirds:

A3-C#4: better than last time, still a bit slow
A#3-D4: slow, loose, sweet, slower than previous
B3-D#4: fast, very tense, check A#3-D#4 (too wide), perhaps D#4 must go down?

C4-E4: about 3.5 bps, even slower than A#3-D#4, too slow
C#4-F4: very tense, too much, beats are in a flow
D4-F#4: nice, tense-harmonious and singing
D#4-G4: sour, check D4-G4 (too wide)

E4-G#4: a bit slow-nice
F4-A4: nice, check C4-F4, raise both pitches
F#4-A#4: I usually tune A#4 comparing the previous 4th, 5th and octave
G4-B4: too sweet - here 3rds are savoury, a bit salty

Project:

G4 down (in pitch)

A#3, C#4, D4, F#4, A4 up, raise their pitch

Check 5ths:

1 - A3-E4: nice
2 - A#3-F4: nice, if you raise A#3 (see project), you raise also F, so you can correct C4-F4
3 - B3-F#4: too still, B3 up so B3-D#4 gets less wide
4 - C4-G4: too still, too just, leave a slow/late opening, G4 down (see project)
5 - C#4-G#4: too early movement, about 1 bps, perhaps wrong side?
6 - D4-A4: make it more still, less activity, A4 and D4 up (see project)

You have written very nice things, I'll be back later, I enjoyed birds singing.

Alf.


Edited by alfredo capurso (06/14/12 09:58 AM)
Edit Reason: English grammar
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#1913377 - 06/14/12 09:51 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7430
Loc: France
HEllo Weyian :

Yes the tuning was so long it could not be uploaded or treated, I dont know.

Here is a part of it :http://soundcloud.com/olek-4/unisons-corrections

http://soundcloud.com/olek-4/unisons-corrections

Sorry I will write later...
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1913395 - 06/14/12 10:22 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Hi Afredo,

Thank you.

The A3-D4 at wrong side. I found out it later.

"amend" is to modify for the better. This may be wrong wording.

"jargon" is bottle neck.

Hi Issac,

Thank you for the sound file.
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#1913553 - 06/14/12 05:08 PM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
alfredo capurso Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 1060
Loc: Sicily - Italy

Hi Weiyan, I listened to the recs below:

..."Had correction after recording. Sorry for no record.
The wrong beating mostly due to pin setting problem.
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/octaves-f3-g-4-13-june-2012
Octaves F3-C#4

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/octaves-d4-g-4-13-june-2012
Octaves D4-G#4

- . - . - . -

Perhaps you yourself can notice that some intervals need to be corrected. Let me know.

..."Alfredo asked me to tune the octaves up. Sorry, I tune up and down, not followed the instruction strictly."...

No problem. Do you have the Flow-chart (pdf.) of the sequence already?

..."Its strange tune the octave before the temperament is OK. Its magic that when tuning the octave, the errors in temperament are enlarged and easily be fixed."...

Yes, enlarging the mid-range, all intervals reflect - step after step - their individual chromatic tensions, showing their long-distance coherence.

..."Weiyan's naive tips today:

Move before the potter is crack. Then crack it from outside."

Thank you.

Alf.
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#1913824 - 06/15/12 04:17 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Good afternoon.

These are today's practice session.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-15-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-15-june-2012
C#4-F4 seems too slow

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-15-june-2012
A#3-D#4, D4-G4 too fast
E4-A4 seems very fast in the record, but listen to the piano, it seems OK.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-15-june-2012
G#4 too flat, had been raised after recording.

Use only 1.5 hours to tune these 12 notes. Among 1.5 hours, slept one hour.




Edited by Weiyan (06/15/12 04:24 AM)
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#1913831 - 06/15/12 04:47 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
These is today's corrections.

Please ignore previous recordings. This is the final submission of today.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-a-15-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-a-15-june-2012
A#4-D4 need to tune faster
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-a-15-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-a-15-june-2012

After days frustration, things become easy.

In 8 o'clock evening, complete tuning all octaves and unisons.
Below is a test playing.
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/burgmuller-15-june-2012

This yesterday's test playing:
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/burgmuller114-june-2012

Thank you.


Edited by Weiyan (06/15/12 08:27 AM)
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#1913914 - 06/15/12 09:37 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
alfredo capurso Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 1060
Loc: Sicily - Italy

Hi Weiyan, good evening.

From the base:

A3-A4: OK- too still, up a little bit
A3-D4: too wide
D4-A4: too much noise, up A4 and down (forte blow?) D4
A3-E4: too narrow
E4-A4: a bit wide, up E4 (and A4)

Fifths:

A3-E4: it moves too soon, it is a bit too narrow, check C4-E4… it is Ok, remember this;
A#3-F4: too narrow, about 2.5 bps, check C#4-F4, too slow, too sweet, 6 or 7 bps, more typical for F3-A3//F#3-A#3 (that area)

B3-F#4: nice, check D4-F#4… nice
C4-G4: too narrow, about 1.5 bps, check D#4-G4… nice, remember;
C#4-G#4: like above, check E4-G#4… Ok… try to remember (*)
D4-A4: make it closer to just (see the base)

Project:

Up E4, check C4-E4…, up C4, check (4th)… up F4… solve A#3-F, up G4 (remember D#4-G4?)

Forths:

A3-D4: too fast, down D4, check A#3-D4, too slow… down A#3, in direction of A#3-F4 (maybe ok? see project)
A#3-D#4: wrong side? check B3-D#4… nice! check D#4-G#4… fast, up D#4 (join G4, remember?)... down C#4 (*)(remember?), solve A3-C#4 (a little bit too sour (fast)) and C#4-G4 and C#4-F4.

The deeper we go, the thiner the adjustments will get. Control your body, relax your ears, breathe natural (calm). Enlarge your temperament, yes, and follow chromatic intervals coherence.

Please, let me know about two questions (in my previous post).

I'll be travelling until Tuesday, have a nice weekend.

a.c.


Edited by alfredo capurso (06/15/12 10:07 AM)
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#1913943 - 06/15/12 10:32 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Hi Alfredo,

Thank you. Hope you have a nice weekend.

Sorry for missed the two questions. Its hard to find out it for the posts are move fast.

For thirds I am not so sure. I may confuse too fast with too slow. Could you post a thirds progression for reference?

I get some hints of hearing fifth: count on the start of move.

Try to correct in the weekend.

Bye.
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Ragtime beginner
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#1915220 - 06/18/12 10:36 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Hi friends, this is my today's tuning.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-18-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-18-june-2012
D4-F#4 sounds strange. Don'e know how to soft it.
E4-G#4 seems no beat.
C4-E4 too sweet
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-18-june-2012
A3-D4 too fast
B3-E4, C4-F4, D4-G4 too slow
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-18-june-2012
A3-E4, C4-G4, C#4-G#4 Too fast

Raise E4, Correct B3-E4, C4-E4, A3-E4
Raise G4,
Raise G#4

Will try correction tomorrow.
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#1915555 - 06/19/12 03:29 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
alfredo capurso Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 1060
Loc: Sicily - Italy
Old Post...

Hi Weiyan,

I've copied the post (below) of mine (10th of June) because, in what I wrote, there is an error. As an exercise, you may re-read it and spot the error.

#1911375 - June 10, 2012 02:56 PM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: Weiyan]
alfredo capurso Online content

Thank you, Weiyan.

You noticed C#-G# beating, very good. It is beating because it is a very narrow 5th.

You can look at that in two ways:

- G# is too low from just (in pitch); in this case you raise G# closer to almost-just 5th;
- C# is too high from just (in pitch); in this case you lower C# (closer to almost-just 5th);

I noticed the 4th C#-F# non-beating (it is too just): in this case if you lower C# you can adjust (at least) two intervals: C#-G# gets (correct) wide and C#-F# gets less narrow (less beating - closer to just).

Please notice the chain of effect (events?): look at point 2 (A#3-F4), C#-F (as a M3) is Ok; if you lower C# you have to (must) lower also F.

In general, that is what you need to develop in time, the ability to visualize the chain of effects for every move.

In general, evaluate the effect of each move and try to improve (at least) two intervals with one move.

Always ask yourself: what happens (to the other intervals) if I modify this interval? You can do also this exercise (*) in abstract, even reasoning with yourself, without moving anything.

Regards, a.c.

(*) Edit: so doing, you will be able to draw the "intervals relation map".

- . - . - . -

Down to your recent posting,

The base:

A3-A4: too still, it want that to be wider, you want to hear a growing slow movement after 1.5/2 seconds, A3 down or A4 up;
A3-E4: too narrow,
E4-A4: Ok
A3-D4: too close to just (no beat)
D4-A4: too close to just (no movement)

Fifths:

A3-E4: too narrow, check C4-E4… too sweet
(2) A#3-F4: too narrow, check C#-F4… too sweet, make it wider
B3-F#4: nice, check D4-F#4… fast, hmmm… D4 was too low? (see the base)
C4-G4: too narrow, about 2 bps, check D#4-G4… no beating, up G4 you improve two intervals
C#4-G#4: nice, check E4-G#4… no tension… hmmm...
D4-A4: see base, check F4-A4… nice-sweet… up D4 and A4

Forths:

A3-D4: see base, check A#3-C4… sweet, slow, you already know D4 must go up
A#-D#: about 2 bps, check B3-D#4… Ok-little sour, perhaps perhaps D#4 must go down? see above D#4-G4
B3-E4: too just, you already know about E4
C4-F4: too just (no beating), up F4… you repair (2)
C#4-F#4: hmmm… check A3-C#4… nice (almost Ok), check D4-F#4, check C#4-F4, hmmm…
D4-G4: Ok, up D4 and G4
D#4-G#4: inverted?

Yourself-critique:


http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-18-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-18-june-2012
1- D4-F#4 sounds strange. Don'e know how to soft it.
2- E4-G#4 seems no beat.
3- C4-E4 too sweet
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-18-june-2012
4- A3-D4 too fast
5- B3-E4, C4-F4, D4-G4 too slow
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-18-june-2012
6- A3-E4, C4-G4, C#4-G#4 Too fast

Raise E4, Correct B3-E4, C4-E4, A3-E4
Raise G4,
Raise G#4

- . - . - . -

1- you are correct, up D4
2- yes
3- yes
4- non correct
5- Ok, listen again to D4-G4
6- Ok, listen again to C#4-G#4

Very good SC, Weiyan, good job! When ever, listen to your M3 progression and try (exercise) to spot large or "fast-slow-inverted" beat rates.

Have a nice day,a.c.


Edited by alfredo capurso (06/19/12 03:30 AM)
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#1915693 - 06/19/12 11:29 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Hi Alfredo,
Thank you.

I am still learning to hear fast beats. Sometimes confused too slow with too fast.

Left the piano untouched today. Will do the correction tomorrow.

Good night.
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Fake Book player
Ragtime beginner
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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#1916131 - 06/20/12 08:54 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Hi,

This is today's tuning session. Correct tempered at wrong side. Improve pin setting.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-20-june-2012
Octave seems too wide. A3-D4 should faster,

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-20-june-2012
A3-C#4 too sweet
C#4-F4 too tense


http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-20-june-2012
C#4-A#4 too fast
Raise C#4, correct A3-C#4, C#4-F4

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-20-june-2012
A#3-F4 move too soon
Raise F-4, since A#4 raised, raise F-4 more than A#4

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/octaves-20-june-2012
Finally tuned some octaves, E3 to A#3, to learn octaves at the same time.

Will finish whole piano tomorrow. Friday visit China no tuning. Hope this weekend has a good sounding piano.
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#1916584 - 06/21/12 06:21 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
alfredo capurso Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 1060
Loc: Sicily - Italy

Hi Weiyan,

The base:

A3-A4: Ok- (little too wide) - if you tune little higher than 440 you can always lower A4
A3-D4: too just, (make it close to 1 bps)
D4-A4: inverted?
A3-E4: very good
E4-A4: little wide (due to A4)

Fifths:

A3-E4: see base
A#3-F4: too just (no beat)
B3-F#4: a bit narrow
C4-G4: beating a lot - inverted?
C#4-G#4: too just
D4-A4: different from your base, perhaps something has moved

Thirds:

A3-C#4: slow
A#3-D4: slower than previous, D4 up (see base)
B3-D#4: Ok, sweet, compare with A3-C#4, make it more similar (otherwise the progression is inverted) perhaps B3 is too high?
C4-E4: nice, you want it a little bit faster
C#4-F4: fast, check A#3-F4, put F4 down? put A#3 up?
D4-F#4: nice, check B3-F#4, if you raise D4 you raise also F#4, so D4-F#4 does not change and you improve B3-F#4
D#4-G4: sweet, up G4, improve C4-G4, it was not inverted.
E4-G#4: Ok, put C#4 up
F4-A4: Ok, sweet, perhaps A4 has gone down

Fourths:

A3-D4: see base
A#-D#: too just,
B3-E4: fast
C4-F4: slow
C#4-F#4: fast
D4-G4: a bit fast
D#4-G#4: too just
E4-A4: something has moved

Your S.C.:

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-20-june-2012
1 - Octave seems too wide. A3-D4 should faster,

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-20-june-2012
2 - A3-C#4 too sweet
3 - C#4-F4 too tense

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-20-june-2012
4 - C#4-A#4 too fast
Raise C#4, correct A3-C#4, C#4-F4

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-20-june-2012
5 - A#3-F4 move too soon
6 - Raise F-4, since A#4 raised, raise F-4 more than A#4

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/octaves-20-june-2012
Finally tuned some octaves, E3 to A#3, to learn octaves at the same time.

1 - correct
2 - correct -
3 - yes
4 - yes, perfect
5 - non correct
6 - yes, you meant A#3.

Very good, now you are improving too fast! :-)

Do you have the sequence flow-chart? Now you could start developing and comparing 6ths.

Buona serata,

Alfredo


Edited by alfredo capurso (06/21/12 06:35 AM)
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#1916669 - 06/21/12 11:02 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Hi Alfredo,

Thank you.

Issac had send me the tuning procedure. After tuning F#4 from B3, compare sixths as suggest in the chart. I don't know how to use sixths.

This is today's tuning. Need to improve hammer skill. I found its difficult to move a hairy little. Pin setting is still big trouble.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-21-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-21-june-2012
C4-E4 too slow, difficult to correct it.
D#4-G5 seems too slow, not sure.
C#4-F4 should be slower
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-21-june-2012
C4-F4 too fast
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-21-june-2012
C4-G4 too fast

Lower F4, improve C#4-F4, C4-F4
Raise G4, improve C4-G4, D#4-G4(if its too slow)

Good night.
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#1917156 - 06/22/12 09:51 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
alfredo capurso Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 1060
Loc: Sicily - Italy
Hi Weiyan,

..."Issac had send me the tuning procedure. After tuning F#4 from B3, compare sixths as suggest in the chart. I don't know how to use sixths."...

I evaluate the first 6th available, A3-F#4, because it tells me (only by my own relative sensation) how the FBI curve is being shaped, how it originates right at the beginning.

I want that 6th to be fast but pleasant, tense but not too nervous, not sour, inspiring-tense, inclined-tense, joy-tense, hope-tense, proposal-tense, encouraging-tense, it must recall proud and best intensions, it must smell like believed-deserved success, like true emotion. Of course, this is what that 6th can evoke me, but you can start understanding what it would evoke you, trying to relate your other senses and your power of abstraction.

From the sequence flowchart you will see that after A#3-F4... I tune G4, obviously from D4; then C4, which has to work all around, as a M3 (C4-E4), as a 5th and 4th. The reason why I do not tune C4 from F4, and G4 from C4, is that I prefer to go back to my base, by using D4 as a reference, in the idea that I can reduce multiple (previous) approximations. It also gives me the feeling of "meeting" F4 while coming from the "other" direction, as that is for me the correct way to shape a whole, two parts that join together.

..."This is today's tuning. Need to improve hammer skill. I found its difficult to move a hairy little. Pin setting is still big trouble."...

I think you are right, hammer skill takes time… for wide intervals, use the forte blow for "hairy little" moves, so you can also stabilize your centre string; for narrow intervals, first get to just (from above), then play a forte blow, so the fifth gets narrow and (hopefully) more stable.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-21-june-2012

A3-A4: nice
A3-D4: little too wide
D4-A4: little too narrow, make it almost no-movement
A3-E4: nice
E4-A4: nice

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-21-june-2012
1 - C4-E4 too slow, difficult to correct it.
2 - D#4-G5 seems too slow, not sure.
3 - C#4-F4 should be slower


Thirds - please notice that progression: Ok-fast // Slow // nice-fast // very slow // fast // nice-slow // nice // nice // slow.

Project: put down A#3, C4, D4, D#4, F4

Your S.C:

1 - see project, I compared C4 4th and 5th;
2 - yes, D#4 is too high (in pitch), make D#4-G5 very similar to E4-A4;
3 - yes, F4 wants to go down

Very good Weiyan, today I have to stop here. In general, start spotting the worse interval, like C4-E4, and relax your ear… I think you can hear a lot now and you need some (physiological) time to settle your perceptions deep down and order your actions. Soon you will be able to compare 6ths too and choose which geometry you want to "play"... then it gets even nicer.

Buona serata,
_________________________
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#1917652 - 06/23/12 09:03 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Hi Alfredo,

Thank you.

I tuned C4 from F4, G4 from C4. Will try another way.

Will learn the sense of sixths. I think I can sense thirds and LBIs.

Next week will begin from this tuning. Hope it not move too much in these days playing.

Quote:
Buona serata,

What's this?

Have nice weekend.

Weiyan
_________________________
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Ragtime beginner
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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#1917658 - 06/23/12 09:29 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: Weiyan]
alfredo capurso Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 1060
Loc: Sicily - Italy
Originally Posted By: Weiyan
Hi Alfredo,

Thank you.

I tuned C4 from F4, G4 from C4. Will try another way.

Will learn the sense of sixths. I think I can sense thirds and LBIs.

Next week will begin from this tuning. Hope it not move too much in these days playing.

Quote:
Buona serata,


What's this?

Have nice weekend.

Weiyan


Hi Weiyan,

"Buona serata" means "have a nice evening".

良好的星期天, is this Buona domenica? a.c.
.
_________________________
alfredo

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#1918297 - 06/24/12 10:40 PM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Good morning,

Today have business so finished tuning this morning. Just correct the notes suggested by Aflredo.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-25-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-25-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-25-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-25-june-2012

良好的星期天, is this Buona domenica? a.c.
This is "Nice Sunday" or "Good Sunday". Chinese seldom use this phrase.
_________________________
Fake Book player
Ragtime beginner
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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#1918302 - 06/24/12 11:07 PM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: Weiyan]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1701
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted By: Weiyan
Good morning,

Today have business so finished tuning this morning. Just correct the notes suggested by Aflredo.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-25-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-25-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-25-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-25-june-2012

良好的星期天, is this Buona domenica? a.c.
This is "Nice Sunday" or "Good Sunday". Chinese seldom use this phrase.

AC# beats very fast and A#D very slow. This is not ET.

Kees

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#1918546 - 06/25/12 02:53 PM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
alfredo capurso Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 1060
Loc: Sicily - Italy

Hi Weiyan,

I could not make it earlier today.

If you like you can compare your thirds 21th June/25th June

A3-C#4: Ok
A#3-D4: improved
B3-D#4: too slow, check A#3-D#4… too just, check B3-F#4, to narrow

C4-E4: improved, make it a little faster,
C#4-F4: improved, it is still a bit sweet
D4-F#4: improved,
D#4-G4: Not improved, a bit salty/sour, check D4-G4… too wide…

E4-G#4: improved progression with F4-A4
F4-A4: improved

Your base (25th june):

A3-A4: Ok (to start with), it is a little wide, you would remember this during your tuning
A3-D4: too wide, if you put down D4, you put down also A#3, check A#3-F… too narrow, so you can put down A#3
D4-A4: Ok, because D4 and A4 are both high (in pitch)
A3-E4: Ok
E4-A4: Ok, little wide, but you remember A4

Evaluate thirds progression: Ok // Slow-sweet // like previous-sweet // sweet // nice // nice // fast // sweet-check C#-G#… up G# // nice.

Project: Put down A#3, B3, C4, D4, up G#, check F4 and remember A4.

Have a nice day, a.c.
_________________________
alfredo

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#1919123 - 06/26/12 09:27 PM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: DoelKees]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Originally Posted By: Weiyan
Good morning,

Today have business so finished tuning this morning. Just correct the notes suggested by Aflredo.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-25-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-25-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-25-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-25-june-2012

良好的星期天, is this Buona domenica? a.c.
This is "Nice Sunday" or "Good Sunday". Chinese seldom use this phrase.

AC# beats very fast and A#D very slow. This is not ET.

Kees


Thank you for reminding that two thirds still not tuned.
_________________________
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Ragtime beginner
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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#1919132 - 06/26/12 09:38 PM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Originally Posted By: alfredo capurso

Hi Weiyan,

I could not make it earlier today.

If you like you can compare your thirds 21th June/25th June

A3-C#4: Ok
A#3-D4: improved
B3-D#4: too slow, check A#3-D#4… too just, check B3-F#4, to narrow

C4-E4: improved, make it a little faster,
C#4-F4: improved, it is still a bit sweet
D4-F#4: improved,
D#4-G4: Not improved, a bit salty/sour, check D4-G4… too wide…

E4-G#4: improved progression with F4-A4
F4-A4: improved

Your base (25th june):

A3-A4: Ok (to start with), it is a little wide, you would remember this during your tuning
A3-D4: too wide, if you put down D4, you put down also A#3, check A#3-F… too narrow, so you can put down A#3
D4-A4: Ok, because D4 and A4 are both high (in pitch)
A3-E4: Ok
E4-A4: Ok, little wide, but you remember A4

Evaluate thirds progression: Ok // Slow-sweet // like previous-sweet // sweet // nice // nice // fast // sweet-check C#-G#… up G# // nice.

Project: Put down A#3, B3, C4, D4, up G#, check F4 and remember A4.

Have a nice day, a.c.


Hi Alfredo,

Thank you.

Bad good luck happened. My phone became brick last Saturday, so I have chance to change for a Windows phone. The computer is infected so I had chance to show off my computer ability to my son. I can tune a piano only two thirds not correct in two weeks intensive learning.

These days had little bit burn out. Will resume practice tomorrow.

Sorry for no birds whistle today.
_________________________
Fake Book player
Ragtime beginner
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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#1920377 - 06/29/12 02:05 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Hi,

This is today's practice session. Just corrected notes as suggested by Alfred except C4. Had move C4 up and down, finally back to original. Move C4 destroy its relationship with F4 and F5.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-29-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-29-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-29-june-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-29-june-2012

Thank you.
_________________________
Fake Book player
Ragtime beginner
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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#1920568 - 06/29/12 11:53 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
alfredo capurso Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 1060
Loc: Sicily - Italy

Hi Weiyan,

About the base, those intervals are very similar to the other recording. This time I try to be more precise:

A3-A4: Ok (to start with), it is a little wide, about 1 beat every 2 sec., get the feeling that it is opening/swelling after 2 sec., no real beating…
A3-D4: too wide, that is about 2 bps, try to make it 1 bps
D4-A4: Ok, because D4 and A4 are both high (in pitch)
A3-E4: Ok... careful because it tends to be too narrow
E4-A4: Ok, little wide, but you remember A4

Thirds progression: // Ok // Slower than previous // improved // too sweet- C4 wants to go down // nice-sweet // nice // improved // improved // nice //.

Fourths:

A3-D4: see base
A#3-D#4: too just, two moves... A#3-D4 is slow, D4 is high so...A#3 must go down, check A#3-F4... too narrow!
B3-E4: Ok-little fast
C4-F4: slow… C4 can go down?… check C4-G4… too narrow, put down C4 improving also C3-E3
C#4-F#4: Ok
D4-G4: too just, D4 down
D#4-G#4: too fast, D#4 up, in direction of A#3-D#4
E4-A4: Ok, see base… A4 down a bit

In the next days I'll be traveling for work, so we will have to wait for sometime. In the meantime, enlarge your mid-octave and develop your ear for no-beating 12ths, the first being A3-E5. Make octaves very very similar, they do open "more", chromatically progressive, but... very very slowly. Make sure that intervals are on the right side, and do not rush with your hammer, first focalize on the beat, then move your hammer.

You are doing well (in a short time); work "in time" Weiyan, and enjoy your breathing and your sounds.

Best wishes,

Alfredo


Edited by alfredo capurso (06/29/12 11:56 AM)
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#1920936 - 06/30/12 03:57 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Hi Alfredo,

Hope you have a success business trip.

I think I understand the octave more now. The higher partial appear after a short while, may be 1.5 - 2 seconds.

Its happy to go to the beatless 12th. Its a new challenge.

Thank you.


Edited by Weiyan (06/30/12 04:03 AM)
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Ragtime beginner
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#1922546 - 07/04/12 11:18 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Sorry for making Alfredo busy enough. He's in business trip now.

This is today's practice. Retuned whole piano and rasied 10 cents. May be its too hot that the pitch dropped.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-4-july-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-4-july-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-4-july-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-4-july-2012

Thank you.
_________________________
Fake Book player
Ragtime beginner
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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#1925057 - 07/10/12 11:58 AM Re: CHAS PREPARATORY TUNING [Re: alfredo capurso]
Weiyan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 769
Loc: Hong Kong
Still practicing.

The octave may be little bit wider.

Tune the 12th pure. The mistake in temperament is reflected in octave when a note cannot tune pure 12th.

http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/chas-10-july-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/thirds-10-july-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fourths-10-july-2012
http://soundcloud.com/weiyan-1/fifths-10-july-2012

Thank you.
_________________________
Fake Book player
Ragtime beginner
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com

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