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#481555 - 09/04/07 03:22 PM Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
DeAntonio Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 53
Loc: United Kingdon
Hello,

I was wondering what peoples thoughts might be on the relative difficulty from these two Nocurnes by Chopin, First, the one I can play (note perfect most times): Op 9 No 2 (3 flats - and very well-know piece), and Nocturne Op 27 NO 2 (5 flats).

I want to learn this nocturne op 27 #2, but wondering if its too hard for me to play (I don't do lessons/grades, but have played Grade 8 pieces before - and many a while ago tackled a ballade). What Grade would this be?, and how difficult in comparison to the OP 9 is it?.

I've had a look through the music, and as well the "48" notes (to 12 quavers) , the piece as a whole looks quite difficult - but is it "MUCH" harder than the OP 9 (which i can play with "room" to spare).

What is the Grade of the Nocturne I play At the moment (Op9) (not seen it in a grade listing)


TIA \:\)

Antonio

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#481556 - 09/04/07 03:37 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
BruceD Offline
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Posts: 17676
Loc: Victoria, BC
Antonion ;

In the RCM syllabus, the Op 9 No 2 Nocturne is Grade 9 - possibly Grade 5 or 6 in the ABRSM, but the Op 27 No 2 is diploma level.

The Db major Nocturne is considerably more difficult than the rather straightforward Op 9 No 2 on so many levels, techical and interpretive. I don't think it would be a logical next step after the Op 9 No 2.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
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Estonia 190 in satin ebony
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#481557 - 09/04/07 03:51 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
DeAntonio Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 53
Loc: United Kingdon
Thanks Bruce - I still want to learn it though! (my Dad perfected it).

Would be interested in a list of Nocturnes; and there "difficulty" Rating, like:

1.Op 15 No 2 Grade <8>
2.Op 9 No 3 Grade <10>

(From people who play them/all Etc - ) \:\)


Antonio

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#481558 - 09/04/07 04:12 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
BruceD Offline
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17676
Loc: Victoria, BC
As far as grading is concerned - a fairly relative categorization - I can only offer what RCM (Canada) has in its syllabus for the Nocturnes. Remember that RCM goes from Grade 1 to Grade 10, then the ARCT diploma.

Grade 8:
Nocturne in G minor, Op 15, No 3

Grade 9:
Nocturne in Eb major, Op 9, No 2
Nocturne in B major, Op 32, No 1
Nocturne in G minor, Op 37, No 1
Nocturne in F minor, Op 55, No 1
Nocturne in C# minor, No 20 (Op. Posth.)

Grade 10:
Nocturne in Bb minor, Op 9, No 1
Nocturne in F major, Op 15, No 1
Nocturne in F sharp major, Op 15, No 2
Nocturne in Ab major, Op 32, No 2
Nocturne in E minor, Op 72, No 1

ARCT :
Nocturne in C# minor, Op 27, No 1
Nocturne in Db major, Op 27, No 2
Nocturne in G major, Op 37, No 2
Nocturne in C minor, Op 48, No 1
Nocturne in Eb major, Op 55, No 2
Nocturne in B major, Op 62, No 1

I hope this helps to give you some idea of the relative difficulty of the Nocturnes.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony
Writing from Paris until 15 May, 2014

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#481559 - 09/04/07 04:49 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
thepianist2008 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 191
Loc: NY
Where do you find these lists of grades? I'm from New York, so we have a NYSSMA level thing, but that's way screwed up. There are only six levels, and Level six contains both Rustles of Spring and Rach Prelude in G minor. I think it would be really useful when I find a piece I like to be able to formulate a way to move up to it.
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#481560 - 09/04/07 05:05 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
BruceD Offline
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17676
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by thepianist2008:
Where do you find these lists of grades? I'm from New York, so we have a NYSSMA level thing, but that's way screwed up. There are only six levels, and Level six contains both Rustles of Spring and Rach Prelude in G minor. I think it would be really useful when I find a piece I like to be able to formulate a way to move up to it. [/b]
thepianist2008:

Whenever I respond to questions concerning the grade-level of a piece, I am referring to the current piano examination syllabus of the Royal Conservatory of Music (Toronto). It is always a very handy reference for indicating the relative level of difficulty of compared pieces when taken in its context, that being that the grading system goes from Grade 1 to Grade 10, followed by the Performer's and/or Teacher's diploma examination, called the ARCT exam.

It is also quite comprehensive; by the time one gets to the Grade 10 list of examination pieces, there are some 20, 30, 40, or even more than 50 pieces from the standard repertoire in each of five categories: A: Bach; B: Classical Sonatas; C: Romantic Repertoire; D: 20th-century Repertoire; E: (later) 20th-century repertoire.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony
Writing from Paris until 15 May, 2014

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#481561 - 09/04/07 05:52 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
Antonio, as you are based in the UK perhaps it would help for you to have the approximate British grades. In Eleanor Bailie's "Pianist's Repertoire: Chopin - a graded practical guide" she lists 9/2 as grade 7 and 27/2 as grade 8. I have generally found her estimations to be fairly accurate, given that it's really rather subjective.

I hope you enjoy both of these gorgeous Preludes and will let us hear a recording of your final version on the "Devoted to Chopin" thread on the Adult Beginners' Forum. Happy playing!
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#481562 - 09/04/07 06:05 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
DeAntonio Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 53
Loc: United Kingdon
Thanks for the listings. I think the British version of ARCT Dipoma is the Licentiate of the Royal Schools of Music Or LRSM/FRSM.


Regards

Antonio

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#481563 - 09/04/07 07:05 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
C H O P I N Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 310
Loc: England
I can play nocturne op 9 no 2 and it's one of my favourites... as an ABRSM candidate I would personaly put it at grade 6 (atleast)and as Bruce rightly said the op 27 is no easy ride.. I think you should take an easyer nocturne first, aslong as you are in no rush... and even if you are in some sort of "rush" you have to think about the end result, you may play it well enough... but they'l be a niggle at the back of you mind that will keep telling you "what if I learnt this with more experiance, better technique etc etc" I think another beautiful nocturne and possibly MY very favourite is the op. posth C# minor....

Cheers TE
_________________________
"I Think Therefore I Am." - Rene Descartes

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#481564 - 09/05/07 03:48 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
frida1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 199
Loc: Pacific Northwest
I agree that Op 27, #2 is much more difficult. I have played both, and although I can play Op 27 pretty well, it took quite awhile, with some breaks in between while my playing improved. I would pick an easier one first.

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#481565 - 09/05/07 04:28 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
timbo77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 268
Loc: Singapore
The Royal College of Music in London has three post-grade 8 ABRSM levels: the Associate, Licenciate and Fellow of the college, each requiring more of the musician. I would put Op 27 no. 2 at a difficult grade 8 ABRSM level or possibly the old 'advanced level' of the ABRSM which I think has now been scrapped. It is easier than any of the Chopin ballades.

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#481566 - 09/05/07 04:50 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
pianist.ame Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1164
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Thanks for the listings. I think the British version of ARCT Dipoma is the Licentiate of the Royal Schools of Music Or LRSM/FRSM.
nope, you are mistaken. The ABRSM Dip,LRSM and FRSM all make up the ARCT Dip.

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#481567 - 09/05/07 05:26 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17676
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by Amelialw:
 Quote:
Thanks for the listings. I think the British version of ARCT Dipoma is the Licentiate of the Royal Schools of Music Or LRSM/FRSM.
nope, you are mistaken. The ABRSM Dip,LRSM and FRSM all make up the ARCT Dip. [/b]
Amelia :

I'm not sure what you are saying here. The ABRSM, LRSM and FRSM all all British diplomas and the ARCT is a Canadian diploma. How can the British diplomas "all make up" the ARCT diploma?

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony
Writing from Paris until 15 May, 2014

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#481568 - 09/07/07 05:49 AM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
pianist.ame Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1164
Loc: Singapore
sorry, I answered in the wrong way. The ARCT performer's exam is equivalent of the ABRSM Dip, LRSM and FRSM exam.

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#481569 - 09/07/07 10:13 AM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
drumour Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 829
Loc: Scotland
 Quote:
Originally posted by Amelialw:
sorry, I answered in the wrong way. The is equivalent of the ABRSM Dip, LRSM and FRSM exam. [/b]
That doesn't make sense either. DipABRSM, LRSM and FRSM are different levels or standards of award; and they can each take different forms - teaching or performing etc. The "ARCT performer's exam" can't possibly be equivalent to all of that. Unless, of course you mean something like, "In Britain they have DipABRSM, LRSM and FRSM, while here in Canada we have the ARCT performers' exam." That might approximate to what you mean.


John
_________________________
Vasa inania multum strepunt.

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#481570 - 09/07/07 03:12 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17676
Loc: Victoria, BC
John :

Amelia also didn't clarify that the Royal Conservatory of Music's (Toronto) ARCT examination can be:
- Performer's ARCT
- Teacher's ARCT
and that the requirements are distinct for each examination and clearly pointed out in the Syllabus.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony
Writing from Paris until 15 May, 2014

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#481571 - 09/07/07 03:53 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
bobrunyan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 81
Loc: Marysville, California
Where do folks think Op. 48 No. 2 would fall? It's not in the list that BruceD posted. It's my favorite Nocturne.

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#481572 - 09/07/07 05:42 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17676
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by bobrunyan:
Where do folks think Op. 48 No. 2 would fall? It's not in the list that BruceD posted. It's my favorite Nocturne. [/b]
I would say that it's every bit as difficult as anything in the Grade 10 list, and more difficult than some.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony
Writing from Paris until 15 May, 2014

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#481573 - 12/10/07 10:33 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2"
ptu2slp Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 6
Loc: Pacifica, CA
chopin's nocturne, 27/2, is, i think, a little piece of heaven
_________________________
pieces currently working on:

Chopin waltz #3 a minor
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Chopin nocturne #8 in d flat
Chopin nocturne #1 in b flat minor

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#1911396 - 06/10/12 11:43 AM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2" [Re: DeAntonio]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4221
What does the RCM grade the op62 no2 as?

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#1911467 - 06/10/12 02:01 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2" [Re: JoelW]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17676
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: scherzojoe
What does the RCM grade the op62 no2 as?


You really dug this one out of the archives, didn't you?

RCM doesn't include Chopin's Op 62, No 2 on any of its examination lists.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony
Writing from Paris until 15 May, 2014

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#1914242 - 06/15/12 07:08 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2" [Re: DeAntonio]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6084
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
According to Bailie Op.9 No.2 is grade 7 and Op.27 No.2 is grade 8.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1914261 - 06/15/12 07:44 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2" [Re: ChopinAddict]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19105
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
According to Bailie Op.9 No.2 is grade 7 and Op.27 No.2 is grade 8.
Yes, but most of Chopin's works are ranked in the top four or five highest numerical categories in that book, so a numerical difference of one is not insignificant.


Edited by pianoloverus (06/15/12 07:45 PM)

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#1914280 - 06/15/12 09:29 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2" [Re: DeAntonio]
asthecrowflies Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 122
Loc: London, Cambridge, San Francis...
You can also check out the Henle difficulty ratings:
http://www.henle.de/us/detail/index.html?Title=Nocturnes_185
_________________________
Currently working on: Bach Partita 4, English Suite 2, Toccata d-minor, Chopin-op 10/1, Schubert Impromptus

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#1914647 - 06/16/12 06:28 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2" [Re: DeAntonio]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2594
Loc: Netherlands
a little thought: op.27 could be considered as the highlight of the nocturnes by Chopin, indeed, anyone. As to difficulty: these pieces are not ment to be difficult, these are not etudes or bravoure-look-at-me pieces at all, these are characterpieces, to be played by someone who has, well, character, fingers and good taste, that supposes that one has fingers, a heart and a brain, any struggle for right notes should be superfluous, the right Stimmung is the key.
_________________________
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Chopin op.28/20/31/39/54

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#1914702 - 06/16/12 10:08 PM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2" [Re: BruceD]
carey Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6043
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: BruceD


RCM doesn't include Chopin's Op 62, No 2 on any of its examination lists.



Their loss. smile
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#1914837 - 06/17/12 09:14 AM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2" [Re: DeAntonio]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19105
Loc: New York City
My favorite performance of the Op.9 No.2 Nocturne. Do you like it?

For me, this performance is so great that by itself(although I have heard Achucarro play other works live)it justifies calling this pianist is a very great one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScVkvd9-N-g


Edited by pianoloverus (06/17/12 09:16 AM)

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#1915577 - 06/19/12 05:13 AM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2" [Re: DeAntonio]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4221
Op. 27 No. 2 is pretty easy except for that one little taunting virtuosic annoyance. Sounds quite nice though...

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#1915590 - 06/19/12 06:19 AM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2" [Re: JoelW]
GeorgeB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 635
Originally Posted By: scherzojoe
Op. 27 No. 2 is pretty easy except for that one little taunting virtuosic annoyance. Sounds quite nice though...



Then I would love to listen to your very polished performance of it.

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#1915594 - 06/19/12 06:55 AM Re: Difficulty: from Chopin Nocturne Op 9#2 to "op 27 #2" [Re: GeorgeB]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4221
Sure thing! - if I ever learn it..

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