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#1918586 - 06/25/12 05:16 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: suniil]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19284
Loc: New York City
I find most of the criticisms of Lisitsa's posted thus far to be both too subjective and too unspecific to be very convincing. I did not think all of the selections were played at a very high level although I thought some were very well played, but I also think comments like those below would not be made by a teacher at, for example, a master class because they are so nebulous.

"But beginning with Mozart Fantasie, I felt that she was very tense, not to make a single mistake, and this continued with the Beethoven too. I can speculate that she was advised to play more freely and not care too much during the intermission. Which IMO, showed some evidence in the Rachmaninoff."(Seems like pure speculation to me about her nervousness, reasons for her nervousness, and what she was told during intermisssion. I don't think a huge percentage of her fans expect her to play flawlessly and are attracted merely by her technique. There are plenty of other pianists with big technique.)

"if she doesn't feel the music" (IMO there are very few pianists who have devoted tens of thousands of hours to practice who don't feel the music.)

"she played two heartless back to back Rach preludes."

"i'm sure they touch you more than Lisitsa's playing"

"nevertheless I do feel touched by her personality, she feels the music and thus she moves me."(talking about a different pianist)

"I can forgive mistakes but the clunkiness (sorry , but that is the best description I can come up with) of her interpretation was a real problem."

"Her playing/technique also lacks a certain level of finesse and refinement that can be found in that of extremely high level pianists. She pushes her technique too far outside of her physical limitations and that makes her sound amateurish to be honest. For comparison:" (The poster then compares her playing to Perahia, who is one of the greatest pianists in the world.)

"IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing."(What's a "true pianist"? How can one possibly know what another pianist is hearing?)




Edited by pianoloverus (06/26/12 07:37 AM)

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#1918587 - 06/25/12 05:19 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: pianoloverus]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2139
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I find most of the criticisms of Lisitsa's posted thus far to be both too subjective and too unspecific to be very unconvincing. I did not think all of the selections were played at a very high level although I thought some were very well played, but I also think comments like those below would not be made by a teacher at a master class because of their nature as explained in the previous sentence.

"But beginning with Mozart Fantasie, I felt that she was very tense, not to make a single mistake, and this continued with the Beethoven too. I can speculate that she was advised to play more freely and not care too much during the intermission. Which IMO, showed some evidence in the Rachmaninoff."(Seems like pure speculation to me.)

"if she doesn't feel the music"

"she played two heartless back to back Rach preludes."

"i'm sure they touch you more than Lisitsa's playing"

"nevertheless I do feel touched by her personality, she feels the music and thus she moves me."

"I can forgive mistakes but the clunkiness (sorry , but that is the best description I can come up with) of her interpretation was a real problem."

"Her playing/technique also lacks a certain level of finesse and refinement that can be found in that of extremely high level pianists. She pushes her technique too far outside of her physical limitations and that makes her sound amateurish to be honest. For comparison:" The poster then compares her playing to Perahia, who is one of the greatest pianists in the world.

"IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing." What's a "true pianist? How can one possibly know what another pianist is hearing?



I don't feel like ruining this thread with it again, but I've previously listed (relatively objective IMO), examples of her playing which I didn't like, and for some reason, nobody ever replied to them.
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

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#1918596 - 06/25/12 05:46 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: pianoloverus]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I find most of the criticisms of Lisitsa's posted thus far to be both too subjective and too unspecific to be very unconvincing. I did not think all of the selections were played at a very high level although I thought some were very well played, but I also think comments like those below would not be made by a teacher at, for example, a master class because they are so nebulous.




How would you explain, in more specific detail, the reason(s) why you thought that some selections were not "played at a very high level". What is the very high level standard you are referring to? extraordinary pianist such as Peraiah, Argerich, Richter etc? or concert level pianist but not necessarily a super star? What makes soemone 's playing "very high level"?

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#1918599 - 06/25/12 05:50 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: suniil]
daviel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
Tough crowd.
_________________________
"She loves to limbo, that much is clear. She's got the right dynamic for the New Frontier"
http://roadhouseallstars.com/

David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas

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#1918600 - 06/25/12 05:54 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: suniil]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
What's to get? She found a bug in a dressing room, and decided to interview it on camera 4tehlulz. Hilary Hahn did a similar video with a goldfish I seem to remember.

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#1918601 - 06/25/12 05:54 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: suniil]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xZl1_NXKls

A betta sorry not a goldfish.

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#1918602 - 06/25/12 06:00 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: pianoloverus]
Quaver Pyjama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 114
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I find most of the criticisms of Lisitsa's posted thus far to be both too subjective and too unspecific to be very unconvincing. I did not think all of the selections were played at a very high level although I thought some were very well played, but I also think comments like those below would not be made by a teacher at, for example, a master class because they are so nebulous.

"But beginning with Mozart Fantasie, I felt that she was very tense, not to make a single mistake, and this continued with the Beethoven too. I can speculate that she was advised to play more freely and not care too much during the intermission. Which IMO, showed some evidence in the Rachmaninoff."(Seems like pure speculation to me about her nervousness, reasons for her nervousness, and what she was told during intermisssion. I don't think a huge percentage of her fans expect her to play flawlessly and are attracted merely by her technique. There are plenty of other pianists with big technique.)

"if she doesn't feel the music" (IMO there are very few pianists who have devoted tens of thousands of hours to practice who don't feel the music.)

"she played two heartless back to back Rach preludes."

"i'm sure they touch you more than Lisitsa's playing"

"nevertheless I do feel touched by her personality, she feels the music and thus she moves me."(talking about a different pianist)

"I can forgive mistakes but the clunkiness (sorry , but that is the best description I can come up with) of her interpretation was a real problem."

"Her playing/technique also lacks a certain level of finesse and refinement that can be found in that of extremely high level pianists. She pushes her technique too far outside of her physical limitations and that makes her sound amateurish to be honest. For comparison:" (The poster then compares her playing to Perahia, who is one of the greatest pianists in the world.)

"IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing."(What's a "true pianist"? How can one possibly know what another pianist is hearing?)



A true musician brings tears to my face, they communicate the most intense and sublime emotions of a certain piece. I feel a greater connection to the humankind after listening to an artist performing. And that simply doesn't happen when I listen to Lisitsa - I don't say she is devoid of all emotions but when I close my eyes, I feel very little. I can't provide objective information, but my personal opinion is that she is extremelly inferior, emotionally speaking, to most artists out there, she fails to comunicate to my heart.
This may sound like stupid sissy talk but it's the only way I can discuss this subject wink

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#1918620 - 06/25/12 07:03 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: suniil]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
Never mind all the people at her recital whose hearts were touched. An artist must communicate specifically to Quaver Pyjama's heart to be a true artist.

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#1918635 - 06/25/12 07:59 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: debrucey]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: debrucey
What's to get? She found a bug in a dressing room, and decided to interview it on camera 4tehlulz. Hilary Hahn did a similar video with a goldfish I seem to remember.


I see. So it is not only silly, it is also not so 'creative' but rather "influenced". smile

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#1918637 - 06/25/12 08:07 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: suniil]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
All creation is influenced, and you say silly like it's a bad thing.
I have no idea whether Lisitsa has seen the aforementioned video Hahn posted (which I'm sure wasn't the first example of this joke).

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#1918643 - 06/25/12 08:45 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: debrucey]
Quaver Pyjama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 114
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Never mind all the people at her recital whose hearts were touched. An artist must communicate specifically to Quaver Pyjama's heart to be a true artist.

Lol, I laughed at this one grin
I know I'm annoying when I post annonymously on the internet, but in real life i'm a nicer person - I don't nag people with my artistic purism.
(well, sometimes I nag my colleagues but it's rare! grin)

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#1918763 - 06/26/12 04:47 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: debrucey]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: debrucey
All creation is influenced...


Wrong.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1918778 - 06/26/12 05:41 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: suniil]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
Example?

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#1918779 - 06/26/12 05:42 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: Quaver Pyjama]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
Originally Posted By: Quaver Pyjama
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Never mind all the people at her recital whose hearts were touched. An artist must communicate specifically to Quaver Pyjama's heart to be a true artist.

Lol, I laughed at this one grin
I know I'm annoying when I post annonymously on the internet, but in real life i'm a nicer person - I don't nag people with my artistic purism.
(well, sometimes I nag my colleagues but it's rare! grin)


I believe you smile

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#1928138 - 07/17/12 03:11 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: suniil]
Works1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 417
Loc: New York
Her performance of Liszt's transcription of Schubert's Ave Maria was magnificant IMO.


Edited by Works1 (07/17/12 03:12 PM)

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#2030898 - 02/11/13 01:52 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: Works1]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: Works1
Her performance of Liszt's transcription of Schubert's Ave Maria was magnificent IMO.


This was obviously top-notch playing technically, although I believe she also gets right to the heart of the matter as for projecting the emotions.

As for all who have been critical of Lisitsa's playing I challenge you to make a better recording!

So, are there any takers?*

*Extra note:

I am excluding myself, as it is currently not something I wish to struggle with since I am contending with other back tension issues while at the piano/computer and some additional hand/wrist strain at this time.

Also, I have to commend any pianist (professional, or, otherwise) that can continue to play pieces at a very high level of difficulty without injury to themselves, as Valentina Lisitsa has demonstrated this can be done.

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#2031016 - 02/11/13 09:27 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: pianoloverus]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
...


Edited by Pogorelich. (02/11/13 09:38 AM)
Edit Reason: I shouldn't bother
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2031040 - 02/11/13 10:04 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall [Re: Pogorelich.]
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1009
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
...


Kind of how I feel

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