Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it

Hey, what's DoelKees13? If you have the sequence, I'd like to try it. Is it anything like JTTPA XXXIV?

Ah, I see now why I couldn't get it to work. I had G# at 0.76 instead of .75.

You seem to forget the fact that 99.9% of people who have come to accept ET as the final solution also had ears, they didn't just go on a website, read a few favourable ET pitches from what most folks see as marketing stooges, and call it "final".


This is a supposition, not fact. I have not seen any proclomation from any tuner, or read from any book that any temperament other than ET is "equal". You can't change math and physics of sound on strings.



It was not a tactic Bill. Its reality. They preferred to stay within the confines of what the maximum allowable stretch for an octave is....and 99% of tuners still follow this. Stretching an octave to get the intervals more pure is not a brainchild invention, even Pythagorus was aware of it 500 years BC. Its just nobody has had the gall to try and re-define what "acceptable" is...that is untill now.

Also, you are the only person on the internet preaching that the majority of ET tunings are reverse well. For many people like myself who were initially trained by proffesionals, the topic of reverse well was introduced very early on and we were instructed exactly how to avoid it. I am not sure why you are so naive to think that the majority of tuners are not aware of reverse well. I am not sure why you would assume that those ETD only or hybrid tuners would deliberately sabotage their temperament aurally to reverse well. The ETD's certainly are not programmed to produce it.



In many peoples view, this just simply means that you attract these types of techs around you. I guess that sucks. My experiences and other techs I talk to, disagree with your assertations. We all have experienced following up behind other techs. Your stats are highly dubious. I can say with pretty strong certainty that at least half the techs out there in North America have ETD's, and this by default means they are not tuning reverse well. If the possible other half (aural only)are all tuning reverse well, you must be in a different dimension.


Not sure what your point is Bill. I highly doubt we will have an ETD out there with a historical temperament as the default setting. This just isn't going to happen.


That is until they play a B and an f# together...then they look for music without that interval to play, or come to accept a 5th that beats more than twice as fast as a fourth does in ET.




It is also the reason why many high caliber tuners who used to frequent here, no longer do. The sites they do frequent, contain no discussions of the non ET malarky I often see here.

I have not had a single person who has listened to any of the recordings here differentiate between which ones are ET and not. Fellow techs I've talked to, have found the same thing. I have two identical pianos in my living room with one of them tuned ET and the other to EBVT3. Piano teachers, several musicians/composers and numerous music afficiandos cannot tell which ones which. They mostly feel that they are both ET but the EBVT3 one sounds poorly tuned and "somewhat strange". Its ludicrous to think lesser informed people have the capacity to differentiate on notes that are altered by fractions of a cent and pick up on it in a musical context with any real idea of whats going on.

Bill, please don't imply here that some snowball effect is happening with EBVT. All the postings and musings in this forum alone come from the same few cohorts as they originally did.

A good temperament that effectively helps convey music, stands on its own and needs no town cryers suggesting its usefullness. This is how ET got established to where it is now. The public spoke and the public validated it. If something better comes along, it should be able to find its viability on its own merits, not smoke and mirrors recordings, marketing hype from a few followers...and last but not least, ludicrous ascertations that the majority of tuners are not actually tuning ET.

"Randomly Beating Frontier Temperament"!!!!! That's funny stuff right there!!! LOL!!!!!!

Alright, I'm going to be brave here. I posted a recording of me playing a piano I tuned today at a church. It is a Baldwin Grand, I believe it is an "M" from the mid 1960s. Lots of miles on this piano, but it still has a pretty sound.

I tuned it with Tunelab (iPhone app) with 8:4 octaves in the bass and 4:2 in the treble and the offsets for EBVT 3 layered on top of the tuning curve that Tunelab calculated for that piano.

Please try not to be too harsh, I've never really had one of my tunings critiqued by other tuners, except my mentor of course. :-) It is NOT a professional recording, all I did was set my iPhone on the music rack and record.

I'm interested to know what you all think. The song is "Jesus Keep Me Near the Cross" and was in the key of "F"

http://www.hassellspianotuning.com/recordings

Yes, that is the creak of the pedal at the very end...I guess I need to fix that for them. LOL!

Bill,

Was it even close to the way you tune the EBVT3? I have always really liked the sound, but have always wondered if I'm even close to the way you tune it.

The offsets are below. It based on a 1/13' interpretation of Bach's scribble, in a different order than Lehman. There is a prominent harpischordist player that has independently arrived at the same temperament.

C 4.96
C# 0.60
D 1.65
D# 2.71
E -1.65
F 6.62
F# 0.45
G 3.31
G# 0.75
A 0.00
A# 4.66
B 0.30

Kees

I don't really know the piano you are working on but some Baldwins can be very difficult to make sound really clean as far as unisons go.

Completely unrelated, though.... Bill, one of the recordings on your website is incorrectly labeled as Brahms (in the Ampico section); it is a Schubert impromptu