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#1865504 - 03/20/12 06:43 PM Handel "Harnonious Blacksmith" on the LX/ IPad 2 Verituner [Re: Grandpianoman]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2416
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Over the weekend, I was visiting a friends home in the LA area. He owns a somewhat rare 8'2" Kawai GS-80 Grand. As I understand it, this was Shigeru's first design of the now famous Shigeru Kawai. Everything is original, strings, hammers, action etc.

I tuned this beautiful grand with my Ipad 2 "Verituner", using the "extended" stretch in ET. I would have liked to have used EBVT III, but I do not have a complete set of Bill's figures for this piano. I used my Ipad 2 to video it as well, using just the built-in mic. It's not the best quality sound or video.

This is a great piece of music from the Ampico, translated here for the LX, and played by Moritz Rosenthal, originally recorded in the Spring of 1937. As I understand it, only 2 copies of this roll exist! Amazing the musicality that one hears from this roll and transcription to the LX.

Once again, the LX shows what it can do so well with all kinds of material! There is also another video on the channel with this wonderful grand piano.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQXASNhk_...mp;feature=plcp


Edited by Grandpianoman (03/20/12 09:39 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling

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#1865580 - 03/20/12 08:38 PM Re: Handel "Harnonious Blacksmith" on the LX/ IPad 2 Verituner [Re: Grandpianoman]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3320
Loc: Madison, WI USA
Great stuff, Grandpianoman! Your tunings are as good as any career professional piano technician on this list! (or anywhere, for that matter).
All you would have had to do to convert the tuning to the EBVT III would have been to plug in the EBVT III figures to the Verituner tuning. Sharpening the note D5 may have been in order but really, the difference between the Verituner result and what I so painstakingly do with Direct Interval tuning would hardly made a difference.

Go ahead and give that a try next time!
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1865614 - 03/20/12 09:43 PM Re: Handel "Harnonious Blacksmith" on the LX/ IPad 2 Verituner [Re: Bill Bremmer RPT]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2416
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Hey Bill...thanks! Actually, I was under a timeline...there were several people coming at 4pm...I tuned that piano in under 3 hours....so am not sure I could compete out there with you Pros!

I did not know I could use your 12 offsets and have it come close to your custom tuning. Next time I am down there, will give that a try!

I must add that yet again, the Verituner has done a superlative job. This will be the 5th piano I have tuned for friends using the Ipad 2/Verituner...it consistently gives me beautiful ET and your EBVT III tunings, and it's really effortless thanks to the the spinner configutations.

On this Kawai, I felt I could go faster by letting the Verituner tune the unisons! You hear the results on both the videos!



Edited by Grandpianoman (03/20/12 10:25 PM)
Edit Reason: added text

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#1865644 - 03/20/12 10:42 PM Re: Handel "Harnonious Blacksmith" on the LX/ IPad 2 Verituner [Re: Grandpianoman]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3320
Loc: Madison, WI USA
GP,

There are certainly proponents of the Verituner! Ron Koval is the most ardent fan. As I see it, each of the ETD's and or software have their own merits. My preference for the SAT should not imply and advertisement for it. It simply suits my needs the best.

I have read and heard many accolades about the Verituner. If, in the end, it suites your needs the best, then it is the software you should use! A representative from that company contacted me on at least a few occasions about the exact figures that should be used for the EBVT III. You should check to see whether they match those for the EBVT III on my website. If they do not, correct them by overwriting them.

That goes for any other device or software. What is on my website for the EBVT III are the figures to use and none other.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1865747 - 03/21/12 03:51 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
rbstewert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/12
Posts: 51
Loc: Portland, Oregon
GP, nice job, thanks for posting!

I used Bill's numbers from his website for my VT. The offsets that came with the VT just say "Bremmer EBVT, 1992." The numbers are slightly different:

.........VT...............EVBT-3
A.......0.0...............0.0
A#.....2.36.............2.86
B......-0.03...........-0.03
C.......3.80.............3.80
C#....-0.77...........-1.29
D.......0.86.............0.86
D#.....3.14.............1.59
E......-1.98...........-0.41
F........1.84............1.84
F#....-2.72...........-0.28
G.......3.11.............3.11
G#.....1.19.............0.67


Sorry about how the numbers line up. Is there a way to make columns here? The tab key does not work, and the program automatically takes out spaces.

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#1866107 - 03/21/12 06:07 PM Re: Handel "Harnonious Blacksmith" on the LX/ IPad 2 Verituner [Re: Bill Bremmer RPT]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2416
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Hi Bill,

I agree..for me, I must be tuned into the way the spiner works. From what I understand, Verituner is constantly "listening" to every note as it tunes. Whatever it's doing, I am very happy with the way the piano sounds, stretch, etc. My friend who owns the Kawai, says the piano never sounded like this before...he loves it...and he uses a pro tuner who uses a different etd.

Thanks rb..will give them a try in the future.

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#1867431 - 03/23/12 07:32 PM Harmonious Blacksmith in EBVT III on my Grand [Re: Grandpianoman]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2416
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Here is the same "Harmonious Blacksmith" on my piano in EBVT III.

Harmonious Blacksmith by Handel in EBVT III http://www.box.com/s/4f61994e94c6ea941843 Recorded with the Avenson mics.

Iphone video with the Tascam IM2 mic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1kgnzTie...mp;feature=plcp

Here is a Faure "Impromtu" from an Ampico roll, translated for the LX, in EBVT III. http://www.box.com/s/323b7cd045e245d4496e

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#1867444 - 03/23/12 08:22 PM Re: Harmonious Blacksmith in EBVT III on my Grand [Re: Grandpianoman]
RonTuner Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 1676
Loc: Chicagoland
Really wonderful tunings!

GP, if you want to move to the next level of tuning with the Verituner, (for other pianos) I can help you with some of the custom stretches(styles)... They are on the Verituner forum, or I can PM a few to you.

Likewise, just enter the EBVTIII numbers into a custom temperament...
Once you get the numbers in, it is just a "tap and go" process.

I'm getting a hip replaced Monday, so I may be offline for a bit!

Ron Koval


Edited by RonTuner (03/23/12 08:23 PM)
_________________________
Piano/instrument technician
www.ronkoval.com
@ronkoval

my piano videos:
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=drwoodwind


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#1867765 - 03/24/12 02:34 PM Re: Harmonious Blacksmith in EBVT III on my Grand [Re: Grandpianoman]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2416
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Hi Ron,

Hope your surgery goes well!

Thanks, but this tuning I can't take credit for, as it was my piano tech who tuned it, using both my iPad Verituner and his box Verituner. He also did some action adj and voicing. He had not seen the iPad version and liked it a lot.

Thanks for the offer on exploring the next step for the Verituner. Will def take you up on that. Please pm those to me, and will also take a look on the forum.

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#1867771 - 03/24/12 03:11 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: rbstewert]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3196
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: rbstewert
Is there a way to make columns here? The tab key does not work, and the program automatically takes out spaces.

Wrap your table in the [ code ] and [ /code ] tags (without the spaces that I've included inside the brackets). You can type these in yourself. Or to insert them automatically, go to the full reply screen and click on the # icon, then select "code". This will insert the tags in your reply. Put your text that you want lined up between the two tags. Multiple spaces will be preserved.

I may not be following this thread, so if you have questions please feel free to PM me.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#1907533 - 06/03/12 10:43 AM Re: Harmonious Blacksmith in EBVT III on my Grand [Re: Grandpianoman]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Grandpianoman
Here is the same "Harmonious Blacksmith" on my piano in EBVT III.

Harmonious Blacksmith by Handel in EBVT III http://www.box.com/s/4f61994e94c6ea941843 Recorded with the Avenson mics.

Iphone video with the Tascam IM2 mic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1kgnzTie...mp;feature=plcp

Here is a Faure "Impromtu" from an Ampico roll, translated for the LX, in EBVT III. http://www.box.com/s/323b7cd045e245d4496e


Find the Haendel sounding badly, zero harmony (really zero, no plenitude, just more or less tension) more like a small vertical. That G# particularly is flacid and hard on my teeth !

Always as awful, and without ANY musical meaning, sorry it did not change for me...




And the tuning there could be more consonant.

The Faure sound not bad but the treble is short and thin compared with the basses.


Edited by Kamin (06/03/12 11:42 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1907541 - 06/03/12 11:05 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Grandpianoman
Greetings all,


7. Gerald Robbins plays Scarlatti on the LX (from the Bosendorfer SE recordings) converted to the LX format by Wayne Stahnke.

Scarlatti Four Sonatas
1. Sonata in C minor, K.11
2. Sonata in G. K.14
3. Sonata in E, K.531
4. Sonata in A, K.533

http://www.box.net/shared/e6oakti0yd


I know Gerald Robbins and worked for him at some occasions. I'll be pleased to hear what he liked.

BTW those double wedges dampers have to be cut flush (on the pic of your damper action) , I suppose it have been done by now..


Edited by Kamin (06/03/12 11:06 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1907567 - 06/03/12 11:57 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Okay--The Lester is not pub tuned anymore! blush In fact, Bill was just here to put a fresh tuning on it. This time, it was riding ten cents below A440, and so he tuned it there. I must say, I really like it there, and I think the Lester does, too.

The boxnet version has the best sound quality, but the YouTube version is fun to watch. Pick yer poison.

Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me (boxnet mp3)

Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me (youtube-i-fied)

Bill always comments on how hard it is to tune the Lester, and I'm sure that's true, but my gosh it sounds exceptionally smooth this time!

--Andy


Sound relatively as a piano that have not been tuned for some time..

Your musical word is amazing !


Edited by Kamin (06/03/12 11:58 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1907574 - 06/03/12 12:16 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Olek]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3983
Loc: Rockford, IL
Wow, Isaac! For having been absent from this thread for so long, you certainly have jumped on it with a new exuberance!

I was hoping Chris Storch might give us something to listen to, but now I fear you are blocking the door. eek

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1907577 - 06/03/12 12:24 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Please dont be afraid, I am just honest in what I write !
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1907578 - 06/03/12 12:25 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Olek]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3983
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Kamin
Please dont be afraid, I am just honest in what I write !


wink
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1913274 - 06/14/12 04:06 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3983
Loc: Rockford, IL
Crossposted in Pianist Corner--Member Recordings

Here's a first: I tuned my Lester spinet today with my own tuning hammer and my own ears and my own (re-conditioned) Sanderson Accutuner and Bill Bremmer standing over my shoulder saying, "Oop," and "Neyeh," and, "I don't think you're gonna get anything better from that string on this piano...," and, "No, I think you can get better on that one..." grin Ha-ha! What a blast. We used settings that Bill put into the Accutuner at his last visit based on his aural tuning, but tuned the high treble and low bass without the ETD. We also did some voicing.

So, here is a little Scriabin prelude in one of the remotest of keys, Eb minor (six--count 'em--six! flats!!!). It is presented here with no sound enhancements--as plain Jane as I can get it--not even any noise reduction, so you'll have to put up with some hiss if you choose to listen to it. I recorded it with a pair of Sony ECM 220 electret condensor mics, through an Audiogram USB input device, into CuBase AI4. I used Switch Sound File Converter to convert the .wav to MP3.

Scriabin Prelude Op. 16, No. 4 in Eb minor

Gotta start somewhere, right?! Thank you, Bill, for helping me down the path! laugh

More recordings to come... Also, we worked on a Yamaha G1 at my church today--the one in the choir room that hadn't been tuned for two years. Bill showed me more stuff with the ETD, we adjusted capstans, and we used the dreaded Teflon powder, too! If I get a chance, I'll see if I can lay down a track of something from the choir room to share using my little portable recorder--only, that Yamaha is not my piano in EBVT III, it's someone else's piano in EBVT III. But it sure sounds good!!! wink

--Andy Strong


Edited by Cinnamonbear (06/14/12 04:17 AM)
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1913296 - 06/14/12 05:21 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Thanks ! that does not qualify as a good tuning, to me... (justness wise..) should be laughable to look for some harmonic sense there ! but if you like it who am I ...


Edited by Kamin (06/14/12 05:25 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#1913312 - 06/14/12 06:51 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Chris Leslie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 756
Loc: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Andy, to my ears the bass notes a little bit sharp. I know there are ambiguities with aurally tuning bass note on a small piano but I have also had my Accu-tuner get FAC tunings wrong down there as well. If there are aural uncertainties, and you have an Accu-tuner, have you tried using FAC with DOB function experimenting with a few settings and testing with say the four C's down from middle C until it sounds sweet? This works for me and illustrates that machine-calculated stretch can't be trusted without aural checking and refinement.


Edited by Chris Leslie (06/14/12 06:53 AM)
_________________________
Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au

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#1913359 - 06/14/12 09:15 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3320
Loc: Madison, WI USA
I told Andy to expect the very comments that were received. For starters, the program in the Accu-Tuner was not a calculated one but one that I had done entirely by ear and recorded the results into the device. Secondly, the entire piano is riddled with very strong false beats. Thirdly, the piano has an extremely compromised, short scale. Fourthly, as many times as I have tuned the Bass entirely by ear, the same comments have come back about the Bass being "sharp" and I am the type of tuner who normally tunes a very wide ("flat" if anything) Bass.

If anyone wants to go to Andy's and measure the actual inharmonicity of those Bass strings and see the wildest numbers you could imagine, please go right ahead and do that. If you think you can make that Bass sound better in tune, I am sure that Andy would be glad to have you show him how you can do it and we'd all love to hear the recording of it afterwards.

Lastly, Andy is only learning how to tune. Unisons are the very most difficult part of tuning, so considering all of the above, give him a break.

Kamin, you have made comments about this piano and its tuning before. I will tell you this: If you personally came to the USA to tune this piano in the most perfect ET you could possibly attempt, the results would hardly sound any better to you than what you have heard on any of these recordings, whether I did the tuning or Andy did it. I know you would not come to the USA to tune any piano, let alone this small spinet, so give us all a break with your candid comments unless you want to find the poorest piano in your country, try to tune it in a perfect ET and make recordings for us all to criticize.

I think that Andy having to work with this very difficult to tune piano as his first to learn on is perhaps not the best choice for him but it is what he has. The difficulty may however force him to work hard enough so that when he does get better pianos to tune, he will do all that much better with them when the time comes.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1913360 - 06/14/12 09:19 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3320
Loc: Madison, WI USA
By the way, I just listened to the recording. It sounded sweet and nostalgic to me. I'll bet if Andy puts it up as an example of his very first and complete tuning of a piano that he has ever done on the Piano Forum, the comments there would be quite different from those received here.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1913368 - 06/14/12 09:35 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Bill, I think learning on a difficult piano is a good thing, actually. Sort of like learning to drive on a stick shift; driving an automatic is then a breeze.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1913372 - 06/14/12 09:44 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3320
Loc: Madison, WI USA
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Crossposted in Pianist Corner--Member Recordings

Also, we worked on a Yamaha G1 at my church today--the one in the choir room that hadn't been tuned for two years. Bill showed me more stuff with the ETD, we adjusted capstans, and we used the dreaded Teflon powder, too! If I get a chance, I'll see if I can lay down a track of something from the choir room to share using my little portable recorder--only, that Yamaha is not my piano in EBVT III, it's someone else's piano in EBVT III. But it sure sounds good!!! wink

--Andy Strong


Now, if you do get a recording of that Yamaha, that one was done using the Accu-Tuner calculated program. I did that just to show Andy how to do that. It is not the way I usually tune, it is also a short scaled, GH1 model and was completed within a two hour time frame that included interior cleaning, capstan adjustment and the lubing of the knuckles with Teflon.

Therefore, it is not expected to be a "broadcast quality" tuning but it will be a better sound than the Reverse Well (yes, the temperaments was Reverse Well before I started) in which it was found. It also had almost no after-touch and some very squeaky knuckles. A guitar pick was also found to be interfering with the D#5 key.

What was done at that service was how to get a piano playing and sounding better within a 2 hour time limit. (The building closed 5 minutes after we were finished, so whatever could be done, had to be done before the doors were locked and the lights went out).

I don't know what pros or cons have been written about the use of Teflon powder on knuckles but I always have a small container in my tool bag. What I do know is that the piano had almost no after-touch and very squeaky knuckles, so that combination of other service requirements made the piano difficult to play on top of sounding very shrill due to the sharpness of the low midrange and the Reverse Well temperament.

Obviously, no one who ever serviced that piano ever cleaned it either, so the action and action cavity were full of dust and foreign objects. What I showed Andy was how to handle a situation like that and get the most improvement in a piano that was possible in the amount of time that was available. The piano could have used some very thorough voicing too but there was no time for any of that.

What I do know was that after treatment of the knuckles with Teflon, the piano once again had a smooth, noiseless and even touch. If there is any negative aspect to using Teflon powder to cure a condition like that, surely the benefits outweigh the results. If the piano should ever need that treatment again, all it would take to do it is another 5-10 minute knuckle treatment.

I, for one, will be interested to hear some church hymns for which that piano is normally used in its choir room setting from that piano. I would rather hear them in the EBVT III than I would in Reverse Well, for sure. I would rather hear them from a piano that does not have squeaky knuckles, bobbling hammers and sticking keys. If YOU think you could make it sound better than whatever it is that you may hear from thousands of miles away, please feel welcome to take a flight to the Chicago O'Hare airport and do it.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1913380 - 06/14/12 09:58 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Bill Bremmer RPT]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3983
Loc: Rockford, IL
@ Isaac -- I was ready for your assessment, which was why I was not afraid to post my recording! wink Thanks for listening, though. smile

@ Chris -- Thanks for the suggestions. I really appreciate them and will keep them at hand. I am not that sophisticated of an Accutuner user, yet, but I'll get there! The bass is something Bill and I wrestle with at every tuning. Bill is the first tuner I've had to get the bass to sound half-way decent!

@ Bill -- What you said about me learning to tune on a difficult piano is kind of how I look at it, too. Mainly, I like the sound of this little guy, and am very happy to be able to crash around with tuning it. And as you have said before, I'll probably be seeing lots of spinets in the future. I suppose the Haddorff might be easier to tune, and it is next! Also, as noted above, I posted the recording in Pianist Corner Member Recordings so people can beat up my interpretation if they want to, and the first comment was, as you predicted, favorable. grin

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1913397 - 06/14/12 10:23 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Bill Bremmer RPT]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Bill Bremmer RPT

Kamin, you have made comments about this piano and its tuning before. I will tell you this: If you personally came to the USA to tune this piano in the most perfect ET you could possibly attempt, the results would hardly sound any better to you than what you have heard on any of these recordings, whether I did the tuning or Andy did it. I know you would not come to the USA to tune any piano, let alone this small spinet, so give us all a break with your candid comments unless you want to find the poorest piano in your country, try to tune it in a perfect ET and make recordings for us all to criticize.

I think that Andy having to work with this very difficult to tune piano as his first to learn on is perhaps not the best choice for him but it is what he has. The difficulty may however force him to work hard enough so that when he does get better pianos to tune, he will do all that much better with them when the time comes.


Possibly indeed those very small and short pianos may be tuned just for a few tonalities, but I try to find "a voice" in any piano I tune, eventually, a small one will have some very large intervals so to adsorb more iH, or I will tune it in Chas and gains some smoothness too.

Like when tuning old uneven instruments, trying to get something of an ETD tend to push the mistakes / defects of the instrument more than harmony.

The tuner try to give a sense of justness when the piano is heard from some distance. I would believe that to tune those sort of pianos one better be in direct relation to his musical ear more than with a supposed pattern.

Then it could be eventually even easier. Plus, there will be so many unevenesses in FBI progression that no further need for "contrast" would be felt.

I rarely tune spinets or really small pianos but I have been, with experience , what sounded horrible and difficult turns to be "funny" (I am exagerating alittle wink )
_________________________
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#1913428 - 06/14/12 11:47 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
RonTuner Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 1676
Loc: Chicagoland
Let me suggest that when listening to the quality of a unison, either in person or on a recording, it is impossible to tell if it could get any better without actually trying to retune it... (Unless of course it's waaaay out) Sure, we all have some sort of snapshot of the perfect unison tone in our heads, but there is a long list of things other than the tuning lever that can impact the quality of the unison - false beats, loose action parts, uneven strings...

Keep it up Andy!
_________________________
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#1913681 - 06/14/12 09:11 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: RonTuner]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3983
Loc: Rockford, IL
@ Ron and Loren: Thanks for your encouragement! It means a lot to me. BTW, Loren, I learned to drive in a Ford Pinto with a stick. Perhaps I am destined to work on a certain class of instrument? crazy

So, this morning on my way to work, I stopped by the choir room at the church and banged out a few hymns per Bill's request on that Yamaha GH1 he tuned yesterday. This recording was made using built-in mics on a TASCAM DP 004 "Pocketstudio" digital recorder, then dumped into CuBase to adjust the volume. I placed the recorder on a hymnal on the closed piano lid, centered, and pushed up against the lid lock, with the microphones facing the music desk so it would catch the sound coming out over the dampers. Again, there are no sound enhancements used. It's as plain and true as it can be, to the extent of my knowledge and ability to make it or keep it so.

I just picked four hymns that I liked from the blue Covenant Hymnal (1996), each of them played through once, except for the second one, which I played through twice because I like that one a lot (I'm actually working on an arrangment of that one, but no sneak peeks in this version):

1. "All The Way My Savior Leads Me." This is the one with the repeated couplet at the end of the first verse that says, "Jesus doeth all things well." So, I guess we really should be tuning in something other than ET, if we are to follow Jesus' example. grin The key is F maj.

2. "Christ, You Are The Fullness." Key of G maj.

3. "Because He Lives." Key of Ab maj.

4. "Glimpses of Glory." Key of D maj.

I would also like to say that I last played this piano several times in October*, practicing for an upcoming recital, when the sanctuary piano was not available. At that time, the action felt heavy and sluggish. That little maneuver with the capstans, and the teflon powder on the knuckles really, very noticeably improved the playability.

Enjoy!

A Few Hymns Played on a Yamaha GH1

I take requests. I'll be here all week.

--Andy

___________
*If you are interested, it sounded like this. I was using the soft pedal. It does have its own kind of charm, but wouldn't work for a wide and varied repetoire. wink


Edited by Cinnamonbear (06/14/12 09:29 PM)
_________________________
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but at least I'm slow.

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#1914430 - 06/16/12 08:53 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3320
Loc: Madison, WI USA
Thanks Andy! Those really sound better than I would have expected them to. I especially like the vibrancy of the key of A-flat. D Major is always the "sunny" key. In any case, one really does get a sense of being in a specific key in this temperament. I have always noticed that when listening to music played by others after I have tuned.

When I looked at the hammers, they showed significantly deep marks in them and a fairly bright tone. However, they were perfectly aligned and the flanges were tight, so the voicing, while on the bright side, is rather even. This is a case where the voicing may just as well be left alone. If anything, the edge could be taken off of them with some "angel shot" style voicing. If I had had another 15 minutes, I probably would have done that but I am sure that everyone who uses and listens to this piano now has noticed a great improvement from just two hours of solid technique.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1914448 - 06/16/12 09:54 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3320
Loc: Madison, WI USA
Here is the one track that had piano from the University of Wisconsin Men's Choir Concert of December, 2011. The piano was a similar but slightly larger Yamaha C-3. The FAC program was used for the Midrange but the treble and high treble octaves were tuned by the Direct Interval method from the Midrange tuned by the calculated program. The Bass wound strings were tuned aurally.

Ralph Vaughn Williams: Man Must Be Just

https://www.box.com/s/ea642d1482eb9cf1fb2f
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1914452 - 06/16/12 10:06 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3320
Loc: Madison, WI USA
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear

*If you are interested, it sounded like this. I was using the soft pedal. It does have its own kind of charm, but wouldn't work for a wide and varied repetoire. wink


Well, this is the way all too many people are actually used to playing a piano, in a slightly Reverse Well temperament but accepting it as ET.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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