Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#1919375 - 06/27/12 10:08 AM "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano
Mike1986 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 5
Hi all,

First, the forum has been very helpful in guiding back on track time and time again on my search for a new piano for my wife. While I am not a pianist (I'm a drummer, so I can't even really hear the differences in all the pianos she's been playing, even though she swears she can), my wife has been playing leisurely for about 12 years.

I want to get her a piano that she loves, but I also want to be able to pay the mortgage next month. Her parents own a Charles R Walter piano that they bought new about 9 years ago for $6000 (or so they recollect). She loves that piano, and so when we were at a piano store last night, and saw a used one priced at $5495, she sat down and proceeded to play and emit her most potent of puppydog gazes.

Here's what I know about the piano: 2001 Charles R Walter Console - (don't know the model) Serial #528336 Finish: Cherry French Provincial. Regular yearly tunings recorded on the tuning log sticker under the lid of the piano, with the notable (at least notable to me) exception of a 6 year gap in tuning between 2006 to 2012. Dealer offers 5 year warranting, free delivery and one in-home tuning up to 45 days after delivery.

Here's what the salesman told me about the piano (no way to know whether any of this is true):
They sold it new to the original owner, where the wife played it for a number of years, became terminally ill and passed, and the husband sat on it for several years unable to part with it, until he called the dealer and they paid him $4550 for it.

The dealer came up with a few options for me after rejecting my initial offer of $4400(which was honestly made in ignorance, which, in hindsight, was a dumb move). Here's what he proposed, keeping in mind %6 sales tax is not included in any of these prices: Option 1) $4945 as is. Option 2) $4850 and 5 year warranty is reduced to 1 year warranty. Option 3) $4650 with no warranty Option 4) $4600 1 year warranty, no in-home tuning. Option 4) $4550, no warranty, no in-home tuning.

In all honesty, I'm not very excited about any of those offers because it's more than I was hoping to spend in the first place (but she loved it, so I'm melting a little) and also because, knowing nothing about pianos and never having owned one, I'm kind of clinging to the assurance of having a warranty. Also, I know regular tunings are critical, including the initial one after giving the instrument a month or so to acclimate to the new environment, and I know they cost around $100-$150.

There were other pianos she liked well enough in the $2000-$3000 range (a 1990 Kawai Console Serial Number A-20768, a 1992 Young Chang, and a couple of brand new Kohler Campells).

Sorry for the long post; I hope you all had plenty of free time on your hands, because it's gone now. I own Larry Fine's book, and I've been reading it a bit, and I'm going to have a 3rd party tech check it out before I buy anything, but now I want some other opinions. Is this price from the dealer over- inflated? Should I even entertain the idea of trading in the warranty for a lower price? Should I be concerned about the 6 year period it went without being tuned? I assume the tuning done after that period was done incrementally. Dealer said used Charles Walters are few and far between, this true? Or should I hold off and keep my eyes open for others. Thoughts on the other pianos she was interested in, but not in-love with?


Edited by Mike1986 (06/27/12 10:09 AM)

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

 

#1919389 - 06/27/12 10:30 AM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
Get her the one she likes. Take the price that includes delivery and a follow-up tuning. Put the thought of those $2000 pianos out of your mind--- there is no warranty that would be sufficient for such an instrument. I'm sure you can think of a parallel in the world of drumsets.

And, BTW, standard advice is to have any used piano inspected for condition by (1) a qualified technician, (2) who is not affiliated with the seller, (3) and who is paid for by you, solely, (4) and whose opinion is therefore given for your benefit, solely. It may run about $100. If you don't know any such, try http://ptg.org for a referral.

What the untrained eye does not see can ruin your life. I'll mention only one four-letter word, since you didn't mention opening the case to see: mice.

If the instrument passes, I would say that the price seems moderate, and that the lady has good taste. If it falls through, let her see if she can find something in the Kawai K- series that she likes,


Edited by Jeff Clef (06/27/12 10:43 AM)
_________________________
Clef


Top
#1919405 - 06/27/12 10:51 AM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
Keith D Kerman Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3327
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
That C Walter is a very nice piano and if in good condition, it is easily worth the dealer's asking price and then some.

You said the dealer told you they paid $4550 for it and offered it to you for $4550 with free delivery, but otherwise as is? Does this dealer lose money on every deal but make it up in quantity? smile
_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann, Feurich
www.pianocraft.net
http://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel/videos

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

Top
#1919410 - 06/27/12 11:02 AM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7431
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi Mike - Welcome to Piano World

It seems you are comparing apples to oranges. Price aside, the other pianos are not in the same class as the Walter. Apparently your wife hears the difference.

Do have a tech check it out. That will answer most of your questions and (s)he will give you insight on the need for a warranty. If what the dealer is telling you is true, this piano has not received all that much playing.

As I juggle those numbers, it seems that it comes down to the warranty issue. Only you can decide this. That is a good price in any of the options. The one thing that would be important to me would be delivery included. Remember, at that point, it would be covered by insurance. This is not a piano where you would want to gather your friends and put it in a pick-up truck.

In this part of the country, used Walters for sale, are few and far between. Like S&S and M&H, they tend to be passed down in families.

Has it been tuned in the shop? If it is not up to A=440 and it will not be played with other instruments, the pitch raise can be gradual, rather than all at once. That would be included with regular tunings, rather than paying for a pitch raise.

Don't worry about the time gap in tunings. It does no damage to the piano, only to the ears of a player with absolute pitch.

Here is what I would do if the tech says it is A-OK. I would blow off the warranty and in-home tuning. I would try to negotiate for a fresh tuning, in-store, and delivery. All of the dealer's prices seem to be fair.

If you can spring for it, you will be giving your wife a very fine instrument, which also happens to be beautiful to look at.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#1919438 - 06/27/12 11:42 AM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
mahermusic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 347
Loc: U.S.A.
I would follow the advice of some of the others for a different reason: if it was originally SOLD in 2001... then it still has it's original Walter warranty, which is 100% transferable to future owners. The Walter piano warranty is a 12-year FULL (not limited) warranty. Only a few piano brands have a warranty like that. The Walter family stands behind their pianos to the hilt.

You can call the factory and ask if they have a record of the original "in-service" date connected to that serial number: (574) 266-0615. You may have a piano with an included warranty late into 2013!

And Marty's correct, OUR Walter will be handed down to my daughter when she's older... when I'm ready to part with it, that is!
_________________________
Charles R. Walter 1520 QA Mahogany #531739 w/ High Polish, Renner and Quiet Pedal

Top
#1919444 - 06/27/12 11:49 AM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
prenex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 189
Loc: Minnesota
I can't give advice on the piano, but like most here, I can provide marital advice. Buy her the one she loves. smile Have them deliver it when she's out of the house and put a bow on it.

Top
#1919458 - 06/27/12 12:04 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
My first thought was will the regulation be touched up. A piano after 11 years of moderate use and sitting unused will need touch up regulation. If I had a used Walter I would make sure it goes out in first class shape and charge accordingly.
Especially if they are Walter dealers they should offer you that.

I just got in my first used Walter yesterday. My first client in 16 years to part
with their piano. She purchased it December 2009 and is moving far away so she asked me to find a new home for it. It's less than 3 years old and I will review every step of the regulation before it is delivered to a new home.

As far as the Warranty I would not worry about that. The Warranty is covered by the Walter for another year and if you don't have a problem now you will not have a problem 5 years from now. Walters are built so well, waranty issues are pretty well nonexistent.

Good luck!!!
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


Top
#1919568 - 06/27/12 02:37 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Jeff Clef]
Mike1986 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 5
As far as I could tell, the piano looked flawless on the outside, and though I didn't know what I was looking for when I opened her up, I did not see any mice.

The dealer is claiming that if they sold it to me at $4550 that they would be losing around $180 because of the shipping. Not sure, then, why they are offering that deal to me if this is such a great piano. I understand that there is a cost to them simply by the space on their floor that this piano occupies, but if it's such a great piano, why not hold firm with it, and get rid of one of the other cheapos?

Marty, they said the piano has been tuned in the shop, and he mentioned something about A=440. Thanks for your suggestion on the warranty.

Prenex, you offer up a very good idea. If this works out, pretty bow and a big surprise would be the way to do it.

Rod, can you offer any more insight on the regulation touch up? What does this involve? How pricey would you expect this process to be? Is this something that should be assumed to be included in the prices we've been negotiating?



Edited by Mike1986 (06/27/12 02:47 PM)

Top
#1919574 - 06/27/12 02:53 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
Mike1986 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 5
Jeff, if I go to ptg.org to find a piano tech to look at this, should I at all be concerned that since there are so few piano dealers by me, that they have more than likely been to this dealer before, and may be on a first name basis with the dealer? Am I being paranoid?

Top
#1919578 - 06/27/12 02:59 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8534
Loc: Georgia, USA
I don’t want to get in trouble here, but it seems really odd to me that a dealer would tell the customer how much they paid for a piano they have for sale… that just sounds unorthodox and abnormal for some reason.

And, it seems even more unusual that a dealer would sell a piano for what they paid for it or even less… but I suppose it can happen. Like someone else mentioned, how can they stay in business operating like this?

I’ve sold a couple of pianos for less than I paid, and they were in better shape when I sold them than when I bought them, but I’m not a dealer.

Of course, I’ve never heard or read anything but positive comments about the Charles Walter pianos.

Good luck!

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
#1919598 - 06/27/12 03:58 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Rickster]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7431
Loc: Rochester MN
Yea, the negotiations have been a bit unusual. But hey, keep in mind the objective. The bottom line is the piano and not necessarily the dealer's oddity.

1) Excellent Piano
2) Very Good Price
3) Present Condition T.B.A.
4) Very Happy Wife

Dude - Think about this!

Rod gave good advice about the regulation of the action. It is adjustment so that all of the keys respond evenly. If your wife had no complaints, it could be deferred for awhile. Maybe a Christmas gift with another bow?

Checking the warranty with the Walter Co. is a great idea! (They are great people and they treated me like a king when I toured their factory.)

There is no doubt that any tech in your area will know the dealer. That doesn't mean that he will be slanted on the side of the dealer, however. He has his professional integrity to consider as he would be under contract to you. Around here, a full inspection is about the same price as a tuning.

This is a fun thread! You are obviously are into this "piano search thing." Keep us posted.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#1919661 - 06/27/12 06:29 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
bbuckis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 81
Originally Posted By: Mike1986

The dealer came up with a few options for me after rejecting my initial offer of $4400(which was honestly made in ignorance, which, in hindsight, was a dumb move). Here's what he proposed, keeping in mind %6 sales tax is not included in any of these prices:
Option 1) $4945 as is.
Option 2) $4850 and 5 year warranty is reduced to 1 year warranty.
Option 3) $4650 with no warranty
Option 4) $4600 1 year warranty, no in-home tuning.
Option 4) $4550, no warranty, no in-home tuning.


Your $4400.00 offer for a 12 year old piano that has been neglected for 6 years was a bit generous.

If the wife likes its though you know what you have to do.

Option #1, and the second Option #4 are the same, "as is" and "no warranty, no in-home tuning".

Option #2 and the first Option #4 both get you a one year warranty. Option #2 costs you $250.00 for the in home tuning

Have them come up with a couple more Options.
_________________________
The only thing preventing me from owning a Steinway & Sons produced piano, is Steinway & Sons Customer Service. They should work on that.

Fortunately the piano I want the most is sold by Steinway & Sons!
Unfortunately the piano I want the most is only sold by Steinway & Sons.

Top
#1919744 - 06/27/12 08:40 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: bbuckis]
mahermusic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 347
Loc: U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: bbuckis
Originally Posted By: Mike1986

The dealer came up with a few options for me after rejecting my initial offer of $4400(which was honestly made in ignorance, which, in hindsight, was a dumb move). Here's what he proposed, keeping in mind %6 sales tax is not included in any of these prices:
Option 1) $4945 as is.
Option 2) $4850 and 5 year warranty is reduced to 1 year warranty.
Option 3) $4650 with no warranty
Option 4) $4600 1 year warranty, no in-home tuning.
Option 4) $4550, no warranty, no in-home tuning.


Your $4400.00 offer for a 12 year old piano that has been neglected for 6 years was a bit generous.



I disagree, along with every single person that posted above. We're talking about a Walter, and not an Essex... and a Walter still under factory warranty to boot. We don't really need to compare different piano manufacturers' customer service departments in this post... but if there's something wrong with the Walter... and you place that call to Elkhart, indiana.....................
_________________________
Charles R. Walter 1520 QA Mahogany #531739 w/ High Polish, Renner and Quiet Pedal

Top
#1919778 - 06/27/12 09:34 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: mahermusic]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7431
Loc: Rochester MN
Mahermusic,

It is not true that this piano has been badmouthed. This thread has been just the opposite. It is only that one poster who was negative.

Let me try to straighten out the 'Options.'

#1 - $4,945 incl. delivery, 5 yr. warranty, 1 tuning.
#2 - $4,850 incl. delivery, 1 yr. warranty, 1 tuning.
#3 - $4,650 incl. delivery, No warranty, 1 tuning.
#4a- $4,600 incl. delivery, 1 yr. warranty, no tuning
#4b- $4,550 incl. delivery, no warranty, no tuning

I would go with option #3 as $100 for a tuning is certainly what is to be expected. If not even more.

Those of us who appreciate the very finest of pianos certainly put the Charles Walter in that class. This is a very good price for this instrument.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#1919790 - 06/27/12 10:37 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Minnesota Marty]
mahermusic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 347
Loc: U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Mahermusic,

It is not true that this piano has been badmouthed. This thread has been just the opposite. It is only that one poster who was negative.

Let me try to straighten out the 'Options.'

#1 - $4,945 incl. delivery, 5 yr. warranty, 1 tuning.
#2 - $4,850 incl. delivery, 1 yr. warranty, 1 tuning.
#3 - $4,650 incl. delivery, No warranty, 1 tuning.
#4a- $4,600 incl. delivery, 1 yr. warranty, no tuning
#4b- $4,550 incl. delivery, no warranty, no tuning

I would go with option #3 as $100 for a tuning is certainly what is to be expected. If not even more.

Those of us who appreciate the very finest of pianos certainly put the Charles Walter in that class. This is a very good price for this instrument.


Marty, yup, I get that. I was disagreeing with the lone dissenter's comments, not everyone else's!
_________________________
Charles R. Walter 1520 QA Mahogany #531739 w/ High Polish, Renner and Quiet Pedal

Top
#1919792 - 06/27/12 10:48 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
Plowboy Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2308
Loc: SoCal
I just recently got to spend some time with a brand new oak satin 1520. A very nice piano in touch and tone. Very nice. The tag price was $6900 or so.

You might want to keep shopping.
_________________________
Gary

Top
#1919925 - 06/28/12 07:17 AM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
bbuckis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 81
You do see the line between my comment and my signature?

My comment mentions nothing about comparing the Charles Walter to an Essex.
_________________________
The only thing preventing me from owning a Steinway & Sons produced piano, is Steinway & Sons Customer Service. They should work on that.

Fortunately the piano I want the most is sold by Steinway & Sons!
Unfortunately the piano I want the most is only sold by Steinway & Sons.

Top
#1919934 - 06/28/12 07:37 AM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: mahermusic]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7431
Loc: Rochester MN
Yea, I see that now. I missread your post. Sorry!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#1920088 - 06/28/12 12:24 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
Mike Carr Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 714
Loc: BANNED
I doubt if the dealer paid over 2k or possibly nothing if it's a consignment deal. In either case the price seems fine but nothing to write home about. They're good pianos, but I don't find the argument about people hanging on to them compelling one way or another. You seldom find used made for the American market japanese pianos, and tens of thousands of those were sold.

As another poster mentioned it's odd that you pay a lot more if you get both tuning and dealer warranty together. For some reason that reminds me of the casino deal where the nightly buffet was 7 dollars unless you promised to see the frank sinatra jr show afterwards, then it was 2.50.

I don't know if Walter offered the chinese action back then, I doubt it, but you might ask.

As for the 12 year full warranty, I noticed on their website the grands are now 10 year. Not sure if they've been cut for some reason or they've always had a 10 year warranty.

Piano Buyer states, "Warranty: 12 years, parts and labor, transferable to future owners within the warranty period." Which, without distinction, would appear inaccurate or, at best, optimistic.



Mike

_________________________
smoke 'em if you got 'em

Top
#1920147 - 06/28/12 02:08 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike Carr]
mahermusic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 347
Loc: U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Mike Carr
You seldom find used made for the American market japanese pianos, and tens of thousands of those were sold.



Not sure what you mean by this... there's literally hundreds of used Yamahas and Kawais within an hour's drive from where I am. There may be one Walter, if that.

Take PianoMart, for instance:

Nationwide, there are:

239 Yamahas
119 Kawais

but only 6 Walters

...for sale, and that's just one selling outlet. We've got plenty of stores selling used Yammys and Kawais here.

As to the Walter warranty:

Walters grands have always had a 10-year full warranty. Their uprights have always had a 12-year full warranty. Both transferable to future owners within the warranty timeframe.
_________________________
Charles R. Walter 1520 QA Mahogany #531739 w/ High Polish, Renner and Quiet Pedal

Top
#1920152 - 06/28/12 02:24 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: mahermusic]
Mike Carr Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 714
Loc: BANNED
Mahermusic,

I clearly said "made for the American Market." Add to that the millions of other pianos, mostly aeolian products, existing in folks' homes as curio cabinets for decades with much mystification as to their inteneded use and the term "hanging on to a piano" means next to nothing.

Mike
_________________________
smoke 'em if you got 'em

Top
#1920160 - 06/28/12 02:36 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike Carr]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7431
Loc: Rochester MN
Mike,

It really doesn't matter what the dealer paid or if it is on consignment. The only concern is the product, with various options, being offered.

As far as the rarity of used Walters offered for sale, they are few and far between. American market Yamahas and Kawais are readily available in the used market.

The current warranty policy does not apply to this instrument. It is covered under the original contract and is transferable to the new owner.

The OP has been offered the bottom line price on the piano and has been given other add-on options to choose from and keep within budget. That seems OK to me.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#1920167 - 06/28/12 02:51 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike Carr]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7431
Loc: Rochester MN
Mike,

I don't think anyone used the phrase "hanging on to a piano" in this thread. What was refered to was the Walter pianos being considered as heirloom items, destined to be passed by means of inheiritance.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#1920171 - 06/28/12 02:57 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike Carr]
mahermusic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 347
Loc: U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Mike Carr
Mahermusic,

I clearly said "made for the American Market." Add to that the millions of other pianos, mostly aeolian products, existing in folks' homes as curio cabinets for decades with much mystification as to their inteneded use and the term "hanging on to a piano" means next to nothing.

Mike


Mike,

You clearly said "You seldom find used made for the American market japanese pianos, and tens of thousands of those were sold", which is why I said it makes no sense. You don't "seldom find" used Yamahas and Kawais... you TRIP over them.

You "seldom find" used Walters for sale. Now THAT makes sense.

There are certain brands (read: usually more expensive) that are purchased with the expectation to be handed down through the family. Now, this might last one-two generations at the most, but I believe the expectation is there. The majority of pianos in people's homes? Mmm, not so much...
_________________________
Charles R. Walter 1520 QA Mahogany #531739 w/ High Polish, Renner and Quiet Pedal

Top
#1920189 - 06/28/12 03:48 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7431
Loc: Rochester MN
Hey Mike1986 - Where'd'ga go?
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#1920218 - 06/28/12 04:55 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: mahermusic]
bbuckis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 81
Originally Posted By: mahermusic
You don't "seldom find" used Yamahas and Kawais... you TRIP over them.


What you are finding (Yamaha and Kawais), and tripping over are Grey Market pianos. Not made for the American market, but being sold here.

What you don't see often is the ones that are made for the North American market.
_________________________
The only thing preventing me from owning a Steinway & Sons produced piano, is Steinway & Sons Customer Service. They should work on that.

Fortunately the piano I want the most is sold by Steinway & Sons!
Unfortunately the piano I want the most is only sold by Steinway & Sons.

Top
#1920251 - 06/28/12 07:02 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike1986]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...Jeff, if I go to ptg.org to find a piano tech to look at this, should I at all be concerned that since there are so few piano dealers by me, that they have more than likely been to this dealer before, and may be on a first name basis with the dealer? Am I being paranoid?..."

I wouldn't say so; it seems to me like a sensible and intelligent question. It's a cozy little world, the piano trade, and it's very likely any local tech will know many of the other players and probably all the retailers. It's a completely fair question for you to ask the tech, and if there's such an interdependent relationship that he/she feels that he couldn't give you a fair appraisal, then you should know that and look for someone else.

On the other hand, a respectable seller will respect your wish to have the piano inspected. Just because your tech may know or even do work for this dealer, does not mean he can't give you a fair idea of this instrument's condition, value, and a forecast of what kind of work it needs (or soon will need) to keep it in good playing condition.

Maybe "mice" is not the word I wanted, as much as the word "wear." If you opened the case and there were no nests, droppings, odor of urine, or evidence of felts having been chewed up... or signs of spilled cokes, melted ice cream bars, a high water mark from a flood... well, then you're ok on the worst of the problems that even a fine piano can suffer. A good dealer would have told you the truth about these problems. So then it probably comes down the question of "how much wear" and, as Rod said, a piano of this age probably will be needing regulation sooner than later.

This is normal service, such as any piano will need after it's played enough for the parts to wear. If your wife liked the way it plays as it is, then you'll probably have a few years to pay off the purchase price before the regulation is needed. If I say, five-hundred bucks, take it as a ballpark figure from a person who hasn't laid eyes on the instrument. Your own technician, who is there, can give you a better idea. I wouldn't think it would be any less than that. Any good instrument with moving parts will, sooner or later, need some of them adjusted or replaced. Pianos, drums, guitars, saxophones--- you name it.

By the way, today is the anniversary of the birthday of the saxophone. 1846. That's a lot of candles.

Please forgive me if what I said made you feel too anxious about this piano. Walter makes a very nice instrument, and it sounds like this one comes from a good home. You are asking the questions a smart buyer would think of, not those of a paranoid. Anyway, that's how it looks from here. I wish you the best of luck with it.
_________________________
Clef


Top
#1920263 - 06/28/12 07:57 PM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: bbuckis]
mahermusic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 347
Loc: U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: bbuckis
Originally Posted By: mahermusic
You don't "seldom find" used Yamahas and Kawais... you TRIP over them.


What you are finding (Yamaha and Kawais), and tripping over are Grey Market pianos. Not made for the American market, but being sold here.

What you don't see often is the ones that are made for the North American market.


Um, no. I'm fully aware of the difference, and I wasn't referencing grey market pianos.
_________________________
Charles R. Walter 1520 QA Mahogany #531739 w/ High Polish, Renner and Quiet Pedal

Top
#1920403 - 06/29/12 03:35 AM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: mahermusic]
Mike Carr Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 714
Loc: BANNED
Except for yamaha dealers, I seldom see used non-gray Japanese pianos for sale around here, the majority are gray market. I’m guessing 10 to 1.

239 Yamahas
119 Kawais
but only 6 Walters.

All that shows, if anything, is Yamaha and Kawai sold millions of pianos and Walter didn’t, and tells you nothing about customer satisfaction.

I think a more accurate view would be that finding a used Walter piano is extremely rare. Is this because the piano owners are self-aware, self-satisfied, and extremely discriminating or is it because Walter hasn’t sold many pianos. It doesn’t seem this rarity enhances resale value.

This word heirloom is a nice marketing term. Steinway uses it. But as a mark of quality or value the term is meaningless. If you want to refer to a used 4550 dollar piano as an heirloom, for whatever reason, you're welcome to it.

It’s seems like a good piano at a decent retail price from a creative dealer, especially if it's something you'd like to pass on to upcoming generations. Keep it tuned. And like all good furniture, keep it polished. What else needs to be said?

Mike
_________________________
smoke 'em if you got 'em

Top
#1920453 - 06/29/12 08:16 AM Re: "Creative" Deals from Dealer - Charles R. Walter Piano [Re: Mike Carr]
Keith D Kerman Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3327
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted By: Mike Carr
Except for yamaha dealers, I seldom see used non-gray Japanese pianos for sale around here, the majority are gray market. I’m guessing 10 to 1.


I would say 10 to 1 is quite conservative. I would think 25 to 1 would be closer and it wouldn't surprise me if it was much higher than that.
It would be really interesting to know how many grey market Yamahas are brought into this country each year as compared with new Yamahas. It would be interesting to know those numbers regarding Kawai as well.
I wonder if Yamaha and Kawai know those numbers.
_________________________
Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales of vintage and pre-owned Steinway and Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Charles R. Walter, Brodmann, Feurich
www.pianocraft.net
http://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel/videos

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
helpers wanted, interactive PC piano teaching game
by russellambrose
09/19/14 08:40 AM
4 vs 3, Practice slow or fast?
by Pover
09/19/14 07:24 AM
Cable Nelson Upright
by Paul678
09/19/14 07:12 AM
Studio monitors for a digital piano
by diegopefm
09/19/14 05:18 AM
Has anyone tried out wireless USB hubs for software pianos?
by Allan W.
09/19/14 02:34 AM
Who's Online
123 registered (Alexander Borro, ajames, accordeur, 34 invisible), 1288 Guests and 26 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76251 Members
42 Forums
157622 Topics
2315200 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission