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#1919615 - 06/27/12 04:57 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Madison, WI USA
So far, the very best marketing approach ever has been the rants against the use of any non-equal temperament. That started some 15 years ago and it was not on this forum. There are forums dedicated exclusively to non-equal temperaments, by the way. Anything that the couple of people on here who are so disinterested in non-equal temperaments that they have to continually repeat what they have no real knowledge or experience in, only their confusion, anger and frustration that the topic won't go away, only serve to keep the topic alive and well.

I still have one more late afternoon appointment today with a long time customer (who knows about and wants what I do, so I have little time to discuss much at all. However, I have to say that to my utter surprise, a new customer today at 1 PM stated to me matter-of-factually, "I saw all of the discussion about the way you tune on the Internet, so I just had to give you a try! I never liked the idea of strictly Equal Temperament [she also owns a harpsichord] and I have guests coming this weekend and wanted to give your idea a try. As far as I knew, piano technicians would only tune in ET, so I am glad to know that is not entirely true."

Talk about lurkers and the supposedly miniscule numbers of people that have ever heard of anything but ET, what they know, what they don't know, what the want or don't want!

So, keep it coming, Emmery. Keep all of those preposterous, absurd and non-factual statements coming every day because you are, in fact the best advertisement for the use of non-equal temperaments there has ever been.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1919623 - 06/27/12 05:16 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Emmery
Jerry, my 99.9% numbers came from a sample of the Toronto and surrounding area yellow page listings of tuners which number about 45, for a population of aprox 3 million people. 25 of the techs were called by phone and 22 of them did not even hear of EBVT, (obviously they don't come to this site). The rest of the techs heard about it but found it so insignificant in their business, they never bothered to tune it.


My experience here is much the same Emmery; there are about 35 techs in the Lower Mainland over an approximate population of 2 million. I haven’t asked them all yet, but the ones I have asked do the standard tuning and many had never heard of Bill’s sequence. That gives no indication they might hear of it at a later date….

Seems there are different experiences for techs and their clients which comes as no surprise.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1919630 - 06/27/12 05:23 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Just a general impression, mind, but, from all the threads on this forum, it appears to me that there are, on this entire planet, 11-12 champions of ebvt who would willingly lay down their lives for it but only 3-4 caring souls who would try to stop them.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1919638 - 06/27/12 05:38 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada

Originally Posted By: rxd
Just a general impression, mind, but, from all the threads on this forum, it appears to me that there are, on this entire planet, 11-12 champions of ebvt who would willingly lay down their lives for it but only 3-4 caring souls who would try to stop them.


Encapsulates the whole issue in one short para…beautifully written rxd.

We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1919642 - 06/27/12 05:47 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: rxd]
Piano Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 400
Loc: Southern Ontario,Canada
RXD....."in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not."
Excellent summation.
_________________________
Richard, the"Piano Guy"
Piano Moving Tuning & Repair
From London ON to Fort Erie ON

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#1919668 - 06/27/12 06:42 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Emmery
The marketing approach of bombarding a single forum with endless recordings and accolades with the associated numerous non related "bump postings" from a small select group of followers bears this out.


Yes, to the point of it being nauseating; we have had almost every single song ever written posted here as a sound sample with the exception of Purple Haze, Itchycoo Park, and Inna-godda-divida…..

In my experience this is the ONLY tech forum where bump postings or top postings are permitted. On other tech forums, get caught doing this and you are gone.

Then we have the endless thread of cute cats and dogs and a lot of other trash. This is supposed to be a tech forum where technicians talk about pianos. If people are looking for trash there is PLENTY, PLENTY of it everywhere on the net.

Why do we all have to endure this here constantly? When is it enough?.... one page….. three pages.... twenty pages…..what?

Easy to see why a lot of good techs refuse to post here any longer.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1919669 - 06/27/12 06:44 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Quote:
300 million in the US and 35 million in Canada which makes up most of North America. And this is not counting the population of Europe which would drive the percentages down even farther….…


Quite a difference in population and opinions available.

Quote:
Jerry, my 99.9% numbers came from a sample of the Toronto and surrounding area yellow page listings of tuners which number about 45, for a population of aprox 3 million people. 25 of the techs were called by phone and 22 of them did not even hear of EBVT, (obviously they don't come to this site). The rest of the techs heard about it but found it so insignificant in their business, they never bothered to tune it. The motto of "stick with what your good at" is not a bad one to follow for business if one wants to travel on a safe path. Adding that .1% in favour of EBVT Jerry, was simply a gesture of good faith on my behalf, considerring that there might be a slight chance a tech would claim to tune it, fully knowing that the customer won't be pulling out an ETD
afterwards to validate it.


22 out of 45 never even heard of it. How can someone that never even heard of something give an opinion on it?

"the rest of the techs never even tried it." Again, what kinds of opinions are these? Tuners that know nothing of it and those that have never used it and probably never heard a piano tuned in it.. That shoots your stats away.

Our local chapter hired Bill Bremmer to come in to give a meeting specfially on EBVT III as per my suggestion. He also traveled to the Detroit chapter too, I believe, wasn't it Bill? So, all of our chapter members have heard of EBVT III now. Plus, they got to hear first hand that same evening so they could decide for themselves if they liked it or not.

I even went so far as to tune my own piano in EBVT III and had a couple of technicians over. I played it for them asking them how they liked my tuning? Without telling them that I had tuned it in EBVT III!

Each technicians said that they loved my tuning and my playing after which, I then explained what I had done. They were floored!!!

Every single tuner that attended our chapter meeting, had never heard of EBVT III. After the meeting and later on, I contacted each person separately and asked them what they thought of it. "Interesting was the most often used phrase." I then proceeded to ask them if they liked how the piano sounded while it was being played? Every one of them said yes, they did. Some liked it more than others but, all of them liked "it." Some techs were even going to learn how to tune in EBVT III.

So, you see, my opinion, is based more on actual facts than it is on getting opinions from tuners who have never even heard of it.

Now, that said, I still DO LIKE ET! I always have, and I always will and, for the most part, I still tune most pianos in it. That is my preference too.... However, as I said before, it is nice, that I can do both and do both, as requested or as I feel like it. smile

Marty, you are very welcome in this piano forum.... I enjoy your threads.

Quote:
Then we have the endless thread of cute cats and dogs and a lot of other trash. This is supposed to be a tech forum where technicians talk about pianos.


If you don't like it, don't read it. You have no idea how many people have written to me privately thanking me for "making their day happier."

One person thanked me profusely for putting on funny things because they had cancer. They had, had, a very bad day, that particular day and came on Piano World, just to look at, read and laugh at the postings that were there on that topic. They took the time to write to me, thanking me for it.

THAT Dan, is the reason why "WE" keep posting humorous things there.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1919705 - 06/27/12 07:42 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3847
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
Originally Posted By: Emmery
The marketing approach of bombarding a single forum with endless recordings and accolades with the associated numerous non related "bump postings" from a small select group of followers bears this out.


Yes, to the point of it being nauseating; we have had almost every single song ever written posted here as a sound sample with the exception of Purple Haze, Itchycoo Park, and Inna-godda-divida…..

In my experience this is the ONLY tech forum where bump postings or top postings are permitted. On other tech forums, get caught doing this and you are gone.

Then we have the endless thread of cute cats and dogs and a lot of other trash. This is supposed to be a tech forum where technicians talk about pianos. If people are looking for trash there is PLENTY, PLENTY of it everywhere on the net.

Why do we all have to endure this here constantly? When is it enough?.... one page….. three pages.... twenty pages…..what?

Easy to see why a lot of good techs refuse to post here any longer.


Man, who pee'd in your Cherrios this morning? You don't have to "endure" it. Just don't open the danged thread! It's really easy! smile
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1919742 - 06/27/12 08:36 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Madison, WI USA
The more people who are asked if they have ever heard of it, the more people will have by the time you get done asking them. Out of those, there are sure to be some who will look into what it is all about and become interested in it. So, keep trying to prove that 99.9% of people have never heard of it and keep claiming that figure too. It's an advertising campaign that really works and it is free!
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1920302 - 06/28/12 10:07 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Sparky McBiff Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 1112
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
... At the time, it was tuned to the RBFT (Randomly Beating Frontier Temperament)


Ha ha ha. RBFT. laugh laugh laugh

(I thought I'd be considerate and let you know that I'm stealing that). thumb
_________________________
Hailun 198







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#1920362 - 06/29/12 01:26 AM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Silverwood Pianos]
Chris Leslie Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 557
Loc: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
Originally Posted By: Emmery
The marketing approach of bombarding a single forum with endless recordings and accolades with the associated numerous non related "bump postings" from a small select group of followers bears this out.


Yes, to the point of it being nauseating; we have had almost every single song ever written posted here as a sound sample with the exception of Purple Haze, Itchycoo Park, and Inna-godda-divida…..

In my experience this is the ONLY tech forum where bump postings or top postings are permitted. On other tech forums, get caught doing this and you are gone.

Then we have the endless thread of cute cats and dogs and a lot of other trash. This is supposed to be a tech forum where technicians talk about pianos. If people are looking for trash there is PLENTY, PLENTY of it everywhere on the net.

Why do we all have to endure this here constantly? When is it enough?.... one page….. three pages.... twenty pages…..what?

Easy to see why a lot of good techs refuse to post here any longer.


Dan, I have been guilty of replying to some of the threads you are referring to. I do find such threads a refreshing change from the incessant, arrogant and bilious talk about key color. Andy is also tuning his piano I believe, and demonstrating it, something that very few techs on this forum have the courage to do.
_________________________
Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au

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#1920649 - 06/29/12 03:07 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Here's some work I did on a Yamaha G3 today. I just played chromatic triads (each with a bass note) starting from C, going up an octave to the next C. I thought a key-by-key comparison including all 12 keys would be good.

http://soundcloud.com/ldigiorgi/triads-on-a-piano-tuned-in

I did some tweaking after I recorded this, but mainly just cleaning up unisons, etc., so I didn't feel like rerecording.

Hearing the smoothness of some keys immediately followed by the "spiciness" of others is an interesting thing to hear.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1920708 - 06/29/12 04:41 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
RonTuner Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 1626
Loc: Chicagoland
Loren, try it in circle of fifths order next time - I think you may hear something interesting!

Ron Koval
_________________________
Piano/instrument technician
www.ronkoval.com
@ronkoval

my piano videos:
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=drwoodwind


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#1920711 - 06/29/12 04:46 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
I'll try that, Ron!
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1920759 - 06/29/12 05:57 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Ryan Hassell Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 428
Loc: Farmington, MO
I do the circle of 5ths after I tune each piano. You can hear it go from calm to "spicy" and back to calm. Very interesting.
_________________________
Ryan G. Hassell
Hassell's Piano Tuning
Farmington, MO
www.hassellspianotuning.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hassells-Piano-Tuning/163155880804
ryanhassell@hotmail.com

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#1920763 - 06/29/12 06:02 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Ryan Hassell]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Thanks, Ryan, I'll definitely try it!
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1920780 - 06/29/12 06:18 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Chris Leslie]
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Chris Leslie

Dan, I have been guilty of replying to some of the threads you are referring to. I do find such threads a refreshing change from the incessant, arrogant and bilious talk about key color.


Not to worry Chris you are guilty of nothing. The remainder of your statement I would agree with.
I was making a different point than a complaint, and received the answer I was looking for.
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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#1920840 - 06/29/12 07:33 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Ryan Hassell Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 428
Loc: Farmington, MO
OK all, here's a link to "Old-Time Religion" played by the pianist at my church this past Sunday. Yes, there are a few unisons that need touched up, but you can hear the change in color as she modulates through three different keys. I have not seen the music, but based on the sound assume that the second key is in several sharps or flats due to the color. The piano is a new Yamaha Baby Grand.

https://sites.google.com/site/hassellspianotuning/recordings


Let me know what you think.


Edited by Ryan Hassell (06/29/12 07:33 PM)
_________________________
Ryan G. Hassell
Hassell's Piano Tuning
Farmington, MO
www.hassellspianotuning.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hassells-Piano-Tuning/163155880804
ryanhassell@hotmail.com

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#1920892 - 06/29/12 10:45 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Ryan Hassell]
Eric Gloo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1226
Loc: Richfield Springs, New York
Originally Posted By: Ryan Hassell


OK - you wanted to know...I hear out of tune unisons and octaves, even more pronounced after the first key change.
_________________________
Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York

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#1920904 - 06/29/12 11:27 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Ryan Hassell Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 428
Loc: Farmington, MO
Eric,
I appreciate your honesty, yes it could use another tune up, the tuning is a few months old and it's a new Yamaha Grand that's still settling in. I just thought it was a good example of a song with key changes that demonstrates changes in tone color. I'm still pretty new at this and still learning. That's why I keep coming back to this forum. For all the fighting that goes on here, there is some good stuff every now and then. LOL! Hey at least I had the courage to put myself out there and post a recording. :-)
_________________________
Ryan G. Hassell
Hassell's Piano Tuning
Farmington, MO
www.hassellspianotuning.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hassells-Piano-Tuning/163155880804
ryanhassell@hotmail.com

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#1920912 - 06/30/12 12:25 AM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Ryan,

I commend you for have the courage to post your tuning here for everyone to see and to hear! It takes a lot of guts to post your tuning here. Again, I commend you for doing so and everyone else that has and does post them!
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1920966 - 06/30/12 07:22 AM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Ryan Hassell]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Ryan Hassell
Eric,
I appreciate your honesty, yes it could use another tune up, the tuning is a few months old and it's a new Yamaha Grand that's still settling in. I just thought it was a good example of a song with key changes that demonstrates changes in tone color. I'm still pretty new at this and still learning. That's why I keep coming back to this forum. For all the fighting that goes on here, there is some good stuff every now and then. LOL! Hey at least I had the courage to put myself out there and post a recording. :-)


Indeed you did! You didn't indicate that the piano was recently tuned, so I was paying attention to the sound of the piano and not the tuning. Anyway, many of us have posted samples of our work, shortcomings and all. I think it's a healthy exercise. smile
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1920981 - 06/30/12 08:13 AM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Eric Gloo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1226
Loc: Richfield Springs, New York
Ryan,

I should have put a smile after my comment. I am relieved the piano on the recording hadn't just been tuned. And yes, there is a definite difference after each key change.
_________________________
Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York

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#1921042 - 06/30/12 10:38 AM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Ryan Hassell]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi Ryan,

I think it's great that you include the recorded examples of your work.

I would like to make a suggestion, however. This is a suggestion and not a criticism.

You have the examples tied to your professional web site. I have not encountered that before and think it is a very clever idea. Keep in mind that it is accessable to your customers and those searching for a tuner. Make sure that the examples are A-1 perfect. May I suggest a more controlled recording. "Old Time Religion" could have been rockin'. The pianist is well meaning, and quite adequate for the task, but.....

Do you have any clients who have a bit more mastery of the piano who would be willing to do a recording gig? Barter with a free tuning. Since it is on your site, and not just for this forum, it really needs to sparkle!

With all good intentions,
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#1921176 - 06/30/12 05:02 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Ryan Hassell Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 428
Loc: Farmington, MO
Thanks for the nice words, guys.

Marty, Putting recording on my site is only an idea I came up with a couple of weeks ago, so I have just started to make and collect recordings. I will be making some more and hopefully getting some more "flashy" songs. I mainly just posted that one to be able to link to it here as an example of hearing the difference between key signatures in EBVT. I admit, it was not the best tuning or version of the song. I like the idea though of the recordings being regular everyday people playing their pianos and not a perfect polished studio recording. I plan on posting the persons name to it as well. Here in my area, pretty much rural, where it seems everyone knows everyone else, or at least is their cousin, I believe it will help new customers to see the name of people they know, both on recordings as well as my testimonial page.

So, thanks for your comments, I appreciate them. My full time job is teaching teenagers to sing all day, so I am not easily offended. LOL!!!!


Edited by Ryan Hassell (06/30/12 05:03 PM)
_________________________
Ryan G. Hassell
Hassell's Piano Tuning
Farmington, MO
www.hassellspianotuning.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hassells-Piano-Tuning/163155880804
ryanhassell@hotmail.com

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#1922351 - 07/03/12 07:38 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: DoelKees]
pppat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Jakobstad, Finland
Originally Posted By: DoelKees
Originally Posted By: Loren D
Ah, I see now why I couldn't get it to work. I had G# at 0.76 instead of .75.

Don't worry, a typical beginners error. Just balance the smoothness of the inharmonicity with the solidness of the unisons and make sure that you hold the tuning hammer with your hand, not with your foot. Just tweak the string tension paying attention to the soundboard and make sure your s factor is 1.29382983723479.

Seriously, it's a very nice temperament.

Kees


Hi Kees (long time no see... I've been pre-occupied with non-tuning stuff this last year smile )

If your temperament is kind of a shifted Lehman, it should be possible to tune it aurally, too, shouldn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong. I'd like to give it a shot aurally at some point.

_________________________
Patrick Wingren, RPT

Senior Lecturer (jazz piano, composition, music theory, conducting) @ Novia University of Applied Sciences, Jakobstad, Finland
- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.

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#1922379 - 07/03/12 10:16 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: pppat]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1653
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted By: pppat
Hi Kees (long time no see... I've been pre-occupied with non-tuning stuff this last year smile )

"Me too" would be an understatement for me. It's nice to know however that if I'd lose my job or retire I know what I want to do then: become a real piano technician!
Originally Posted By: pppat

If your temperament is kind of a shifted Lehman, it should be possible to tune it aurally, too, shouldn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong. I'd like to give it a shot aurally at some point.

Of course.

It's a reversed Lehman, i.e., reading the loops as-is, assuming triple loops represent the narrowest fifths, double loops the moderately narrow fifths, and single loops pure fifths. Because the scribble (my icon), interpreted this way, does not close, there is one fifth that is not determined. I assume this to be the "joker", which you can use to sweep your tuning errors under, provided they are small enough. In my mathematical calculation of the resulting temperament I assume no junk under the carpet.

Aurally I tune it like this:

1) Tune F3A3 a touch wider than in a 1/6' meantone. This is about 4 bps. A little narrower (up to 0 bps!) or wider (up to 5 bps, haven't tried 6 yet) is fine. ( I don't believe an absolute temperament is specified.)

2) Tetrasect FA into 4th and 5ths according to Lehman/Bremmer method. This give you CGD. (Tune notes CGD such that FC CG GD and DA are equally "bad".)

3) Now tune E so that GD beats as AE (err on the faster beating AE side of course).

4) Tune B pure to E
Tune Bb pure to F
Tune Eb pure to Bb
Tune Ab pure to Eb

5)
Tune C# and F# so that C#G# F#C# and B F# are the same (they should be about off as in ET (1/13' instead of 1/12' actually, don't think this is an audible difference). THis is a trisection of the m3 G#B.

Done.

Kees

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#1922733 - 07/04/12 06:41 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
pppat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Jakobstad, Finland
Thanks Kees, what you describe is exactly the way I was going to tune it - good to get this confirmation from you beforehand!

I will try this after the convention and see how I like it. I really like what I've heard of the Lehman, but I (as you yourself, from what I see) have a problem with the "color scheme" being shifted from what I would expect from a WT.

The other thing I will try is Bernhards Stopperstimmung -I have been planning that for a year but time hasn't permitted me to do any explorations at all.



Edited by pppat (07/04/12 06:43 PM)
_________________________
Patrick Wingren, RPT

Senior Lecturer (jazz piano, composition, music theory, conducting) @ Novia University of Applied Sciences, Jakobstad, Finland
- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.

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#1922741 - 07/04/12 07:01 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Ryan Hassell Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 428
Loc: Farmington, MO
Sorry... I just had to post this!!

_________________________
Ryan G. Hassell
Hassell's Piano Tuning
Farmington, MO
www.hassellspianotuning.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hassells-Piano-Tuning/163155880804
ryanhassell@hotmail.com

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#1922766 - 07/04/12 09:11 PM Re: EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it [Re: Loren D]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2318
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Wow Ryan, you hit the nail on the head! It's so true, that I cannot add any more positives to it! smile

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