Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum EBVT - Ok, I'll come right out and say it

So far, the very best marketing approach ever has been the rants against the use of any non-equal temperament. That started some 15 years ago and it was not on this forum. There are forums dedicated exclusively to non-equal temperaments, by the way. Anything that the couple of people on here who are so disinterested in non-equal temperaments that they have to continually repeat what they have no real knowledge or experience in, only their confusion, anger and frustration that the topic won't go away, only serve to keep the topic alive and well.

I still have one more late afternoon appointment today with a long time customer (who knows about and wants what I do, so I have little time to discuss much at all. However, I have to say that to my utter surprise, a new customer today at 1 PM stated to me matter-of-factually, "I saw all of the discussion about the way you tune on the Internet, so I just had to give you a try! I never liked the idea of strictly Equal Temperament [she also owns a harpsichord] and I have guests coming this weekend and wanted to give your idea a try. As far as I knew, piano technicians would only tune in ET, so I am glad to know that is not entirely true."

Talk about lurkers and the supposedly miniscule numbers of people that have ever heard of anything but ET, what they know, what they don't know, what the want or don't want!

So, keep it coming, Emmery. Keep all of those preposterous, absurd and non-factual statements coming every day because you are, in fact the best advertisement for the use of non-equal temperaments there has ever been.

My experience here is much the same Emmery; there are about 35 techs in the Lower Mainland over an approximate population of 2 million. I haven’t asked them all yet, but the ones I have asked do the standard tuning and many had never heard of Bill’s sequence. That gives no indication they might hear of it at a later date….

Seems there are different experiences for techs and their clients which comes as no surprise.

Just a general impression, mind, but, from all the threads on this forum, it appears to me that there are, on this entire planet, 11-12 champions of ebvt who would willingly lay down their lives for it but only 3-4 caring souls who would try to stop them.

Encapsulates the whole issue in one short para…beautifully written rxd.

We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are.

RXD....."in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not."
Excellent summation.

Yes, to the point of it being nauseating; we have had almost every single song ever written posted here as a sound sample with the exception of Purple Haze, Itchycoo Park, and Inna-godda-divida…..

In my experience this is the ONLY tech forum where bump postings or top postings are permitted. On other tech forums, get caught doing this and you are gone.

Then we have the endless thread of cute cats and dogs and a lot of other trash. This is supposed to be a tech forum where technicians talk about pianos. If people are looking for trash there is PLENTY, PLENTY of it everywhere on the net.

Why do we all have to endure this here constantly? When is it enough?.... one page….. three pages.... twenty pages…..what?

Easy to see why a lot of good techs refuse to post here any longer.

Quite a difference in population and opinions available.



22 out of 45 never even heard of it. How can someone that never even heard of something give an opinion on it?

"the rest of the techs never even tried it." Again, what kinds of opinions are these? Tuners that know nothing of it and those that have never used it and probably never heard a piano tuned in it.. That shoots your stats away.

Our local chapter hired Bill Bremmer to come in to give a meeting specfially on EBVT III as per my suggestion. He also traveled to the Detroit chapter too, I believe, wasn't it Bill? So, all of our chapter members have heard of EBVT III now. Plus, they got to hear first hand that same evening so they could decide for themselves if they liked it or not.

I even went so far as to tune my own piano in EBVT III and had a couple of technicians over. I played it for them asking them how they liked my tuning? Without telling them that I had tuned it in EBVT III!

Each technicians said that they loved my tuning and my playing after which, I then explained what I had done. They were floored!!!

Every single tuner that attended our chapter meeting, had never heard of EBVT III. After the meeting and later on, I contacted each person separately and asked them what they thought of it. "Interesting was the most often used phrase." I then proceeded to ask them if they liked how the piano sounded while it was being played? Every one of them said yes, they did. Some liked it more than others but, all of them liked "it." Some techs were even going to learn how to tune in EBVT III.

So, you see, my opinion, is based more on actual facts than it is on getting opinions from tuners who have never even heard of it.

Now, that said, I still DO LIKE ET! I always have, and I always will and, for the most part, I still tune most pianos in it. That is my preference too.... However, as I said before, it is nice, that I can do both and do both, as requested or as I feel like it.

Marty, you are very welcome in this piano forum.... I enjoy your threads.



If you don't like it, don't read it. You have no idea how many people have written to me privately thanking me for "making their day happier."

One person thanked me profusely for putting on funny things because they had cancer. They had, had, a very bad day, that particular day and came on Piano World, just to look at, read and laugh at the postings that were there on that topic. They took the time to write to me, thanking me for it.

THAT Dan, is the reason why "WE" keep posting humorous things there.

Man, who pee'd in your Cherrios this morning? You don't have to "endure" it. Just don't open the danged thread! It's really easy!

The more people who are asked if they have ever heard of it, the more people will have by the time you get done asking them. Out of those, there are sure to be some who will look into what it is all about and become interested in it. So, keep trying to prove that 99.9% of people have never heard of it and keep claiming that figure too. It's an advertising campaign that really works and it is free!

Ha ha ha. RBFT.

(I thought I'd be considerate and let you know that I'm stealing that).

Dan, I have been guilty of replying to some of the threads you are referring to. I do find such threads a refreshing change from the incessant, arrogant and bilious talk about key color. Andy is also tuning his piano I believe, and demonstrating it, something that very few techs on this forum have the courage to do.

Here's some work I did on a Yamaha G3 today. I just played chromatic triads (each with a bass note) starting from C, going up an octave to the next C. I thought a key-by-key comparison including all 12 keys would be good.

http://soundcloud.com/ldigiorgi/triads-on-a-piano-tuned-in

I did some tweaking after I recorded this, but mainly just cleaning up unisons, etc., so I didn't feel like rerecording.

Hearing the smoothness of some keys immediately followed by the "spiciness" of others is an interesting thing to hear.

Loren, try it in circle of fifths order next time - I think you may hear something interesting!

Ron Koval

I'll try that, Ron!

I do the circle of 5ths after I tune each piano. You can hear it go from calm to "spicy" and back to calm. Very interesting.

Thanks, Ryan, I'll definitely try it!

Not to worry Chris you are guilty of nothing. The remainder of your statement I would agree with.
I was making a different point than a complaint, and received the answer I was looking for.

OK all, here's a link to "Old-Time Religion" played by the pianist at my church this past Sunday. Yes, there are a few unisons that need touched up, but you can hear the change in color as she modulates through three different keys. I have not seen the music, but based on the sound assume that the second key is in several sharps or flats due to the color. The piano is a new Yamaha Baby Grand.

https://sites.google.com/site/hassellspianotuning/recordings


Let me know what you think.

OK - you wanted to know...I hear out of tune unisons and octaves, even more pronounced after the first key change.

Eric,
I appreciate your honesty, yes it could use another tune up, the tuning is a few months old and it's a new Yamaha Grand that's still settling in. I just thought it was a good example of a song with key changes that demonstrates changes in tone color. I'm still pretty new at this and still learning. That's why I keep coming back to this forum. For all the fighting that goes on here, there is some good stuff every now and then. LOL! Hey at least I had the courage to put myself out there and post a recording. :-)