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#1919525 - 06/27/12 01:29 PM Is FATAR the best keybed makers
MVshabeer2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 86
Is FATAR the best keybed makers?

I've seen kurzweil using there keybeds, Are they durable.

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#1919541 - 06/27/12 01:40 PM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: MVshabeer2]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2639
Loc: UK
They may be the best OEM suppliers to other manufacturers? But the big brands of Roland, Kawai, Yamaha, Casio all make their own. Most folks on here say the Fatar actions are generally not as good as the best of the Kawai and Roland actions.

Usually you need to try for yourself and see how it suits your style.

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#1919546 - 06/27/12 02:04 PM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: MVshabeer2]
ando Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4194
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Haha, an emphatic "no" to that one. Entry level products aside, all of the big brands make better actions than Fatar.

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#1919594 - 06/27/12 03:52 PM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: ando]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3770
Originally Posted By: ando
Haha, an emphatic "no" to that one. Entry level products aside, all of the big brands make better actions than Fatar.

Well, that's subjective. I don't think any Korg weighted action is as good as the action in the Nord Piano, for example. Some might disagree, but it's not a slam dunk.

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#1919750 - 06/27/12 08:53 PM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: anotherscott]
ando Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4194
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: ando
Haha, an emphatic "no" to that one. Entry level products aside, all of the big brands make better actions than Fatar.

Well, that's subjective. I don't think any Korg weighted action is as good as the action in the Nord Piano, for example. Some might disagree, but it's not a slam dunk.


Well, when I said the big brands I was talking more about Kawai/Yamaha/Roland, and probably even Casio. But since you mention it, I do think the top Korg action is still better than the Fatar purely because it's a heavier touchweight and closer to most acoustic pianos than the light action of the Nord. I think the Nord sound and touch response flatters the Fatar action. In fact, for a company that specialises in so called "premium actions" I'd say Fatar is an absolute joke. They should be at least on par with the big 3.

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#1919752 - 06/27/12 08:59 PM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: ando]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2566
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: ando
I do think the top Korg action is still better than the Fatar purely because it's a heavier touchweight and closer to most acoustic pianos than the light action of the Nord. I think the Nord sound and touch response flatters the Fatar action. In fact, for a company that specialises in so called "premium actions" I'd say Fatar is an absolute joke. They should be at least on par with the big 3.


I fully agree. It really is ok on the Nord but that is more a comment about the Nord than Fatar. I think their actions are mediocre at best.
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#1919769 - 06/27/12 09:16 PM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: MVshabeer2]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1428
I have owned two Nord Pianos now, and they are great for connecting to the sounds. The NP88 and NP2 allow for very expressive playing. That's an important part of a keyboard action. But, I would easily rank the PHA IIII, RM3, RH, NW-Stage actions handily above the Fatar action at east inside the Nords, but then again, the keyboards those actions go into are also much heavier than the Nord Pianos. Can't have it both ways. smile I do think the action in the Nords is better than the RH3 of the Korgs, and better than the action in the Casios. Fatar's wooden action in the Numa Nero is fantastic.
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#1919773 - 06/27/12 09:27 PM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: MVshabeer2]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3493
Loc: Pennsylvania
I think it's fair to say that Fatar generally has a lower reputation for authenticity and (especially) quality control than Roland, Yamaha, and Kawai. At least, that's my observation after reading this and other piano forums for a few years. And their software (firmware) seems to be buggy a lot. I'm thinking of flagship products like the numa nero.

Not speaking from first-hand experience here. Just recapping others' opinions.


Edited by gvfarns (06/27/12 09:31 PM)

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#1920022 - 06/28/12 10:25 AM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: MVshabeer2]
pianoxcape Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Cape Cod
Well, actually Fatar makes many different style keyboards, so as with anything else the true answer is "it depends". Personally, I like the TP-40H (graded hammer action), and I recently tested a TP-100H version that has 3 sensors per key, graded hammer action, wood-core keys and "Ivory-sense" key tops. This action was fantastic and IMHO as good as Roland and Yamaha's top line. I still think the Kawai MP-10 is tops in this area. Just my 2 pennies smile
_________________________
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Consultant for Viscount ("Physis" Physical-model piano; http://www.physispiano.com)
Pianist/Composer of "The Naked Piano" series (Free Music Samples http://www.garygirouardmusic.com)
Teacher, Entrepreneur...Parent

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#1920026 - 06/28/12 10:35 AM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: pianoxcape]
ando Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4194
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: pianoxcape
Well, actually Fatar makes many different style keyboards, so as with anything else the true answer is "it depends". Personally, I like the TP-40H (graded hammer action), and I recently tested a TP-100H version that has 3 sensors per key, graded hammer action, wood-core keys and "Ivory-sense" key tops. This action was fantastic and IMHO as good as Roland and Yamaha's top line. I still think the Kawai MP-10 is tops in this area. Just my 2 pennies smile


That's not an enormous surprise that you would say that though, is it? Don't the Physis and the Kurzweil's with which you are affiliated both use Fatar actions? As somebody who has no brand preference at all, Fatar is miles behind IMO.

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#1920054 - 06/28/12 11:23 AM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: ando]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 743
Loc: Denton Texas
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: pianoxcape
Well, actually Fatar makes many different style keyboards, so as with anything else the true answer is "it depends". Personally, I like the TP-40H (graded hammer action), and I recently tested a TP-100H version that has 3 sensors per key, graded hammer action, wood-core keys and "Ivory-sense" key tops. This action was fantastic and IMHO as good as Roland and Yamaha's top line. I still think the Kawai MP-10 is tops in this area. Just my 2 pennies smile


That's not an enormous surprise that you would say that though, is it? Don't the Physis and the Kurzweil's with which you are affiliated both use Fatar actions? As somebody who has no brand preference at all, Fatar is miles behind IMO.


Actually, the TP-40 is a very good action. It is designed more like Yamaha's GH(X) actions where the weight swings under the lip of the key, rather than pivoting weights like the TP-10, etc. I don't own a TP-40 equipped keyboard so I'm not extremely biased, but I have tried it and was impressed. It's not your grandma's Fatar wink.
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#1920067 - 06/28/12 11:41 AM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: LesCharles73]
ando Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4194
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: LesCharles73
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: pianoxcape
Well, actually Fatar makes many different style keyboards, so as with anything else the true answer is "it depends". Personally, I like the TP-40H (graded hammer action), and I recently tested a TP-100H version that has 3 sensors per key, graded hammer action, wood-core keys and "Ivory-sense" key tops. This action was fantastic and IMHO as good as Roland and Yamaha's top line. I still think the Kawai MP-10 is tops in this area. Just my 2 pennies smile


That's not an enormous surprise that you would say that though, is it? Don't the Physis and the Kurzweil's with which you are affiliated both use Fatar actions? As somebody who has no brand preference at all, Fatar is miles behind IMO.


Actually, the TP-40 is a very good action. It is designed more like Yamaha's GH(X) actions where the weight swings under the lip of the key, rather than pivoting weights like the TP-10, etc. I don't own a TP-40 equipped keyboard so I'm not extremely biased, but I have tried it and was impressed. It's not your grandma's Fatar wink.


Well, I'd still have Kawai/Roland above Yamaha (aside from AG), so if Fatar made an action that was approaching Yamaha's GH actions, it would still put it in 3rd place at best for me.

I still think it's a null statement when somebody who works for Kurzweil and Physis comes on here and states that Fatar has an action that matches Roland/Yamaha. For the same reason I don't expect Kawai James to come on here and say Kawai has a great action. It's a conflict of interest.


Edited by ando (06/28/12 04:09 PM)
Edit Reason: edited for accuracy (see underlined)

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#1920132 - 06/28/12 01:53 PM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: MVshabeer2]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 743
Loc: Denton Texas
Well, not to stir anything up, but he didn't say Fatar had the best action. He did say a certain model was fantastic and "IMHO just as good", but he also said the Kawai MP-10 was "tops" which I assume he meant 'better than the Fatar, Roland, Yamaha, etc'.

I haven't tried the TP-100H action, so I honestly have no idea.

I do agree though that if I wanted the most pianistic action, I'd go with a Roland, Kawai or Yamaha. I definitely agree on that.

As for durability, the Fatar TP-40 (ex: Kurzweil PC3X/K) is supposedly very durable. The weakness in some older Fatar actions (TP-10 versions in the Kurzweil K2500XS, K2600XS, some Studiologic, etc) were the lead-impregnated counterweights. The TP-40 does away with that design concept entirely.


Edited by LesCharles73 (06/28/12 02:36 PM)
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#1920148 - 06/28/12 02:08 PM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: MVshabeer2]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2
Is FATAR the best keybed makers?

I've seen kurzweil using there keybeds, Are they durable.


I don't think you can say anything about an entire brand. For example I like Yamaha "GH" but their lower end key actions are not very good. Same for Roland's, the good ones are good the "Alpha" type are not. Kawai does not make a low-end action.

I think Fatar builds key actions to specification for other piano maters so the product might vary depending on who they are selling to.

I'd say none is "best" after you get above the $1,500 price point. depends what you like or are used to.

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#1920198 - 06/28/12 04:11 PM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: LesCharles73]
ando Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4194
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: LesCharles73
Well, not to stir anything up, but he didn't say Fatar had the best action. He did say a certain model was fantastic and "IMHO just as good", but he also said the Kawai MP-10 was "tops" which I assume he meant 'better than the Fatar, Roland, Yamaha, etc'.


You're right, he didn't say best. I have adjusted my post accordingly.

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#1920277 - 06/28/12 08:54 PM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: MVshabeer2]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1722
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2
Is FATAR the best keybed makers?

I've seen kurzweil using there keybeds, Are they durable.



LOL no ....one of the worst !
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Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.

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#1920282 - 06/28/12 09:17 PM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: MVshabeer2]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1222
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2
Is FATAR the best keybed makers?

I've seen kurzweil using there keybeds, Are they durable.


Some are. The one they supplied for the Kurzweil PC2X wasn't.

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#1920358 - 06/29/12 01:22 AM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: ando]
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 743
Loc: Denton Texas
Originally Posted By: ando

You're right, he didn't say best. I have adjusted my post accordingly.


I agree with your revised statement. Middle tier big 3, at best. Not bad for their biggest market (synth) but not what I'd choose for piano.
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Les C Deal





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#1920387 - 06/29/12 02:26 AM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: ando]
vegasE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 226
Loc: Sydney, AU
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: ando
Haha, an emphatic "no" to that one. Entry level products aside, all of the big brands make better actions than Fatar.

Well, that's subjective. I don't think any Korg weighted action is as good as the action in the Nord Piano, for example. Some might disagree, but it's not a slam dunk.


Well, when I said the big brands I was talking more about Kawai/Yamaha/Roland, and probably even Casio. But since you mention it, I do think the top Korg action is still better than the Fatar purely because it's a heavier touchweight and closer to most acoustic pianos than the light action of the Nord. I think the Nord sound and touch response flatters the Fatar action. In fact, for a company that specialises in so called "premium actions" I'd say Fatar is an absolute joke. They should be at least on par with the big 3.

I also think Korg's RH3 (SP250/Kronos) feels better than the Nord NP and the Kurzweil DP's i tried.
These things are so subjective, really. It's a bit silly to ask what's "best".

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#2262854 - 04/17/14 12:51 AM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: spanishbuddha]
RyanDavidDwyer Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/13/13
Posts: 12
Loc: Oregon
Spanishbuddha,

Back in 2005 I sold the Roland KR series which is their luxury line of products. Many of these contained a Fatar action in them. I have not heard of Yamaha or Kawaii using any other company actions for their products, but Roland definitely has used it. Why? Because certain graded hammer actions in the Fatar line have been weighted to the specs of a 9 foot Steinway grand. In this regard (if it is your opinion that Steinway has a better feel than Yamaha and Kawaii) then a Fatar action is superior, and also the KR series of Roland.

Best,
Ryan

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#2262860 - 04/17/14 01:12 AM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: MVshabeer2]
Joe Garfield Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 218
Loc: Ohio, USA
I thought Kurzweil's MP10 with the Fatar keyboard didn't feel so bad. I'd compare to something like Yamaha GH (better than GHS). I personally didn't like the feel of Roland but I thought their keyboard (RD800) was more solid feeling, and of course I love my Kawai RM3. I would take the Kurz/Fatar over Casio.

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#2262949 - 04/17/14 07:39 AM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: MVshabeer2]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
Originally Posted By: MVshabeer2
Is FATAR the best keybed makers?

I've seen kurzweil using there keybeds, Are they durable.


What makes you think so ? I tried few Fatar actions and didn't like them at all. And it looks to me that majority of people on this forum feel the same.
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#2262965 - 04/17/14 08:38 AM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: anotherscott]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 787
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: ando
Haha, an emphatic "no" to that one. Entry level products aside, all of the big brands make better actions than Fatar.

Well, that's subjective. I don't think any Korg weighted action is as good as the action in the Nord Piano, for example. Some might disagree, but it's not a slam dunk.


That's not saying much. As a former Kronos owner, I thought the Korg action was terrible. It is constructed poorly and has the refinement of a 1980s Hyundai.
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#2263030 - 04/17/14 11:10 AM Re: Is FATAR the best keybed makers [Re: MVshabeer2]
kapelli Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 572
Loc: Poland
Regarding Fatar actions, i played once on them on the Gewa digital (i don't know which one action it was though)l but it felt extremely similar to the GH3 keyboard of Yamaha. Maybe long time playing with sound on would show more difference, but on the fast glance, it is really really close, and, what i see, is not only my opinion.
So Fatar vs yamaha = equal.


Edited by kapelli (04/17/14 11:11 AM)

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