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Well, I dood it. I tuned my piano by my lonesome. That is to say, I used the Sanderson Accutuner with the settings that Bill left me, except that I diverged a little bit in tuning the high treble and the bass--the bass especially, because I was thinking about what Chris said about it being sharp the last time, and Bill's trick of tuning it flat and then knocking it just barely into tune. I did that on all the bi-chords and singles.

I don't want to tell you how much time I spent tuning today. Suffice it to say, I wouldn't have made any money at it. And, it's not nearly as pristine as it is when Bill tunes it (of course). In fact, it's somewhat shabby. But, ya gotta start somewhere, and I wanted to mark this day in history! I am not prepared to call this, "My Piano in EBVT III," until Bill hears it and says, "close enough." I do think I managed to get some nice resonance in there, even if some of the intervals are still a little off. But my assessment doesn't count!

The piece is "The Japanese Sandman" by Raymond B. Egan and Richard A. Whiting (New York: Jerome M. Remick & Co., 1920), a cute little piece in F major with lots of fourths and fifths and a quiet rolling bass. It is recorded in the usual way, and not embellished with any enhancements. Raw, raw, raw, including crappy hiss from my crappy microphones, which I usually take out using DC8 noise reduction software. But I left the hiss in this time for you to get the truest sound as possible given the equipment I have to work with.

"The Japanese Sandman", Egan/Whiting (1920)

I hope you like it! Comments and suggestions about the tuning execution are welcomed. Don't bother commenting on the playing. It's not worth it for this one!

--Andy

Bill

Would you be good enough to explain, from a listener's point of view, how equal beating affects the sound as compared with the progressions of ET (if that is the right way to put it?). Why 6 bps? Also how does this canceling effect work, and is this what you meant by noise reduction mentioned in your other posts?

I'm being lazy and haven't searched, so please me point in the right direction if already documented elsewhere.

Andy!!
My own participation on PW has been a bit spotty, especially of late, but I did get a chance to stop to check out some of the Tuner-Tech, ET/EBVT3 threads to see what's new.

Congratulations on your first full tuning! I'll tell you, that is very good. You can hear some loose unisons there, but that is par for the course, especially for your first time. That ear-hand coordination takes time, and from your description, you took plenty of time to get that piano back to where you like it. For me, spinets seem to be the biggest challenge anyway.

As for the temperament, I am sure it is where you want it to be for EBVT3, but I don't have anything to compare it to. Perhaps when you play a piece that modulates into another key or takes you further out from one flat, it will be more clearly recognizable as such. Regardless, it does sound to me like the temperament has been expanded consistently and correctly to the entire register and it's musical.

I'd recommend you check out a few of the unisons that sound a bit looser to your mind's ear now that you've had a chance to listen to your piano since you tuned it, and see if you can shore them up a bit. Give yourself time for this task, even several days to let your ear hear the subtle differences as you make your way for another pass or two. My guess is that the ETD does not determine the quality of your unisons - your ear will develop that ability, plus your ear-hand coordination will improve over time. Your pin-setting will improve, too. It all starts to come together eventually.

Thank you for putting yourself out there for the world to listen. I am glad to be witness to your first full-on tuning with the ETD. Japanese Sandman is a very cute tune, well played. What can't you play, man? Good stuff, indeed!!!

Glen

Hi, Glen! Welcome back to the thread!

Thank you so much for your comments and encouragement. I really appreciate it!



Yes. I get it, now. When I was playing a different piece last night, B4 and E5 stuck out really fuzzy at me. Time to get out the wedges and open the lid! I'm sure there are others, and some that will fail because of poor pinsetting.



Yes, again! I did not use the ETD to tune unisons. I put in the temperament strips, then tuned the center string of the tri-chords to the ETD from A3 to E6, and then tuned the outer stings to the center string. From F6 up and from G#3 down, I tuned by octaves by ear, using the temperament strips or wedges to set the center string, then unisons. It took me quite a lot of fiddling around, and playing intervals and big open chords and what not to get things in place after I thought I was done! Ha-ha!!!, but at least now I have taken my first steps on the path, and as you say, you get good at whatever you practice. I practiced playing piano for a long time. Now I will practice tuning! GP warned me that getting clean unisons can be addictive, and I think he is right. You know I have studied recordings of your tunings on your Steinway O, which I like listening to a lot and which are very, very fine, indeed. (Interested readers can click on the link in Glen's sig line to hear some really pristine piano!) You and GP have set the bar very high for me!



Brahms, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Liszt, Debussy, Ravel, Franck, Prokovief, Paganini, Schoenberg, Boulez, etc., etc., etc., and anything with a glissando in it. I try to wear music that fits me.

--Andy

I tuned a Yamaha C7 today in EBVT III. The piano had not been tuned for a year and a half, and the voicing was very brittle. I tuned the EBVT III aurally after bringing the piano down in pitch, filed the hammers, and did some Angel Shot Voicing. I recorded some improve on "In the Garden" on my Samsung S2 phone, just to hear the sound away from the piano. I came home and caught up on my Forum reading, and saw Jerry had done a posting on his piano. I thought I would throw this one out to be used or abused.

Chuck




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=803mkkkmfSE

Certainly no reason to abuse there Chuck .... nice job

Very nice Chuck...thanks for posting! I have come across a lot of C7's in my travels, and I always have liked the sounds they make. Chuck, did you stretch the tuning in the bass, treble, like Bill has done with my grand...my A0 is at -26 cents, and C8 is at +76 cents.

Andy, enjoyed your work as well.

I think this a positive thing you guys have started...why not have more techs, if they feel comfortable with it, posting short examples of their tuning like Jerry and Chuck, and Patrick Wingren on another thread....indeed, why not!?!

Well, thank you for the compliment. That was a very simple, non-technical piece, but as I said, I originally just recorded it to see what the piano had to say from 10 feet away. I wanted to see if I had improved the voicing enough in the middle register. I LOVE Yamaha pianos, and have had one for 35 years, but they can sure get bright. My dream piano has always been a Schimmel-their unisons can be unreal clean. By working octaves 3,4,5 on a Yamaha and really softening the hammers, they can resemble the Schimmel's beautiful tone.

I did not check my tuning with the ETD, but I'm sure that the bass was close to 25 cents flat, and the treble at least 40-50 cents sharp. The first octave and a half are always close to turning into an audible beat, and the treble always has a few very high partials talking from octave 6-7.

Chuck, that sounded great! Both the piano and the playing. Loved the hymn, loved the pace, loved the feeling. Thank you for posting that!

--Andy

Andy,

It actually sounds pretty good! There is really, I believe only a marginal amount that those unisons could be improved. That piano does have its limitations. I could make them sound better, yes but not up to the standards that most technicians on here would expect. I know you can hear when a unison is pure but I surely understand the difficulty of making one be as pure as can be.

I read the private mail comment about turning off the ETD to tune unisons. The reason I did that is not so profound as it may seem. The fact is that it won't really help you! The ETD is designed to read one single pitch at a time. If it is presented with two pitches that are relatively close to each other, it cannot "decide" which pitch it is hearing. The ETD won't give you any more information than your ears do when trying to tune unisons. If you hear an indistinct sound, the ETD will display an indistinct pattern. It won't tell you whether the string you are trying to tune is slightly sharp or flat. It will only tell you that the unison is not in tune and you already can hear that clearly!

Having said that, I do often use the ETD when tuning unisons for the finest tuning I can possibly do but perhaps not for reasons you may expect. I don't refer to the ETD to tell me if the unison is as pure sounding as can be, no. If I have an aurally verified program for the piano as I do in the case of your Lester, I will want to know in a concert tuning situation if the whole unison with all three strings sounding, as purely as can be, still hangs on to the pitch I have prescribed for that note.

When tuning unisons, it is very easy to "pound a note flat" as many technicians will tell you will often and quite easily occur. If I have prescribed a certain pitch for a note, I want the whole unison to reflect it the best as I can. This is what makes concert piano tuning take longer than an ordinary tuning if anything does. I often have to "fight" with many notes in the upper 5th and 6th octaves to make then really hold on to the pitch that I have actually prescribed.

When I do take the time, however, that is when my tunings really "shine" and that is what makes concert artists choose to thank me publicly for what I have done for them.

Chuck,

Thank you for the example of a piano tuned in the EBVT III! It is the epitome of what a piano should sound like tuned that way! You have done very well indeed!

I had actually considered that thought, but I still think the lesson was profound! It sure got me hyper-conscious of what can make a good unison on that piano. There are so many things to watch out for, the noisy little beater! (Still, I think that's what makes it special, when everything lines up right. ) Thanks for your continued help, and thanks for that post!

--Andy

On Sat, Roy Peters came down from the PTG Convention in Seattle to finish some work he had started the previous month. He worked mainly on voicing and tuned it at the end in EBVT III, using my Ipad Verituner with Bill's custom tuning figures for my M&H. Great job Roy...thanks!

I made a few recordings right after Roy finished....the hammers sound much better, but still a bit on the bright side. Some further judicious voicing will be needed in the future.

Used the same mics, a pair of Avenson STO-2, connected to the Korg...the original Korg I had was a lemon...after 3 trips to the repair shop in about 2 years, Korg came through and sent me a new one...hat's off to them for that....they really came through on this.

There has been nothing added to these recordings other than to amplify the original file in Audacity. In the Ravel and Debussy pieces, the huge envelope of sound and resonance is all from the piano itself, tuning, hammers, bass strings, etc,....nothing was added to achieve that sound. The Korg def has a better pre-amp in it than the Samson H4 tha I had been using.



EBVT III recordings using my new Korg MR-1000

1. Reflets dans L'eau Ravel This was originally an Ampico piano roll that was converted to play on the LX. https://www.box.com/s/cdcf486f37cf614b734b

2. Scarlatti 4th mov, from the LX Live-Performance series, played by Gerald Robbins https://www.box.com/s/8311e80ae9e21ddac108

3. Debussy "La Cathedrale engloutie" https://www.box.com/s/b99ebeb2f93e94e620f9

4. Debussy Arabesque https://www.box.com/s/1979d68b781305d23e0a



I have not posted much at all from the Yamaha E-Competition series. They play really well on the LX.... Yamaha has 3 grades of midi that you can download for free. I use the high-resolution files for the LX. For fun, I added 2 lower keys for the Debussy....interesting..... the recordings below were recorded the next day. I also did a small change to the piano for the 3 Debussy pieces below and the Albeniz ...I am curious if you can you hear any difference from the recordings above? Enjoy...the best is with headphones. smile


http://www.piano-e-competition.com/midi_2006.asp#D


1. Debussy "Pour les arpeges composees" from Douze Etudes (Original Key) https://www.box.com/s/7e05fc34393fbfb5f2ac

2. Debussy "Pour les arpeges composees" from Douze Etudes--(Half Step Lower) https://www.box.com/s/049100a7df2f36f8e234

3. Debussy "Pour les arpeges composees" from Douze Etudes-- (Whole Step Lower) https://www.box.com/s/74bfddde2421907cda5b

4. Albeniz--Rondena from Iberia-- https://www.box.com/s/a67b7ac8c623f43979bd






1. Rachmaninoff 1 in EBVT III from the Newport Music Festival https://www.box.com/s/4da8a4fa9d935fdc3d47

2. Rachmaninoff 2 in EBVT III from the Newport Music Festival https://www.box.com/s/2905b28a8946a2fe97bf

Bill put his characteristic shine on the Lester this weekend, and I want to share these with you.

First, here is a new Pipe Organ Effect recording, made immediately after Bill's fresh tuning. It is recorded with my little Tascam DP-004 digital recorder, with the built in condensor mics:

https://www.box.com/s/9c0a52bff90108bb66d2

Second, here is another recording. This is a "student piece," published in 1915, a piano adaptation of the song, "Ah, 'Tis a Dream" by Eduard Lassen (1830-1904), a Belgian composer of Danish descent. This piece was adapted and edited by Leopold Godowski.

It is noted in the lesson, "As the musical phrase is repeated at the beginning of each new verse with no change in the actual notes, the student must attempt to introduce variety by novel ideas of interpretation. The last four measures form a kind of postlude or little after-phrase, which possesses the same contemplative character as the song proper." The song itself is comprised of three stanzas. Lyrics are included in the score to help the student see the melody and shape the interpretation.

The lyrics say:

My native land again once meets my eye,
The old oaks raise their boughs on high,
The violets greeting seem:
Ah! 'tis a dream!

I feel the kiss that was in youth so dear,
The words "I love" fall on my ear;
I see the eyes soft beam:
Ah! 'tis a dream!

And now, when far in distant lands I roam,
My heart will wander to my home;
But while these fancies team,
Ah! 'tis a dream!

Eduard Lassen--"Ah, 'Tis A Dream," (Godowski, adpt.)

This is the raw recording with no sound enhancements made with 2 Sony ECM 220 Electret Condensor mics plugged into a Yamaha Audiogram USB input device plugged into Cubase AI4 recording software (same old story).

--Andy

Beautiful sound and beautiful playing. Thanks Andy!

Forrest

Thank you, Forrest!

Here are a few more new recordings of that tuning. At the beginning of the month, I had asked Bill to tune the Lester, because I was submitting Steve Chandler's piece, "Consolation," to the Un-sung Heroes E-cital. I've made no secret about how pleased I have always been with the way Bill tunes my little piano, but this time, he outdid himself, in my humble and appreciative opinion. Here is "Consolation," to which I did apply some standard recording industry settings, as I understand them: a touch of reverb, some light compression, some light limiting, etc. It was recorded August 12 when the tuning was brand new.

"Consolation" by Steve Chandler in Db maj.

I recorded this one today, a gentle praise hymn based on Psalm 121, published in 1994 by Robert Stromberg called, "He's Ever Over Me," collected in the 1996 Covenant Hymnal.

"He's Ever Over Me" by Robert Stromberg in Bb maj.

--Andy

Cinnamonbear:

Just listened to Consolation, and have two comments:

1:Great feel and movement to the playing

2. You had a real master tuner to make that Lester sound that good. I have tuned several of them, and they are tough to make
sound that good, esp. in the bass. That was Craftsman work.

Charles Belknap

Andy,

Your playing is lovely as always...

I hear the Db Consolation having, even as freshly tuned, an unsettled edge, while the Bb even in a slightly aged tuning sets the ear at ease.

Is this how your ear hears the difference in the tonal qualities in this tuning, or is your experience of them different than I describe?

Jim Ialeggio

Something like that, Jim. Yes. "Consolation," as a composition in such a dark key, with its gentle melody and complex harmonies (and exquisite and profound dissonances), holds grief and comfort in suspension. It is a scene of two characters: the comforter and the sufferer. It has a definite arms-enfolding, hair-stroking, tear-wiping quality of the one character along with a poignant, pervasive, unfocused pain of the other character, and, I think, a sense of immediacy to it all. In other words, the hurt is fresh, and the comforting has just begun. I like the way Steve carries the hurt away at the end of the composition, but with that edge, as you say, we see the hurt leaving, and know something deep about what has just transpired.

"He's Ever Over Me" is like a warm, fluffy blanket by comparison. It is quite striking to hear the difference in mood of these two quiet pieces in close juxtaposition, isn't it?

Thanks for sharing your impressions, Jim. The tuning always strikes me on a visceral level, but also, always with a purpose, it seems.

Chuck, thank you, also, for your comments. I agree--Bill's tuning is very artful and artistic.

--Andy

Hi Andy,

Enjoyed both files....thanks for posting them!