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I'm new to all this so please bear with me:)
So when playing 12 bar blues in C, in what scales can I use in the left RIGHT hand?

Is it just C blues scale?
If I understand correctly, you can change a scale when you change a chord. Meaning, I play in C over C chord and when I go to F I can play in....?

hello!

In a 12 bar blue in C, you would usually play a chord progression in your left hand, like:
4 mesures in C7, 2 mesures in F7, 2 mesures in C7, 1 in G7, 1 in F7, 1 in C7 and the last bar in G7; there are a lot of possible variation, but this is a basic and pretty solid progression.

In your right hand for improvisation, you can use just a C minor (or major) pentatonic scale!

enjoy!

regards,

merlin

Hi,

I also use C minor pentatonic with blue note (C, Eb, F, Gb, G, Bb) for a 12 bar blues on C for the right hand improv, and it works quite well. Maybe I will try C major as suggested for adding more choices... I am learning

But know I am wondering what to do with the left hand. Teacher gave me some ideas, but what you usually do? I usually try to do some syncopation with the chords.

Jazz improv is harder because is very usual to use a different scale for each chord... but it also sounds richer. I don't know if the same concept can be applied to blues.

Improv is very fun... specially since I discovered Band in a Box

Regards,
Kurt.-

When you go to F play the F blues scale. Minor blues will sound bluesiest. This will allow you to get out of the box that using just the C blues will put you in. The C blues has C - Eb - F - Gb - G - Bb - C when you switch to the next chord F you now have access to F - Ab - Bb - B - C - Eb - F and when the G chord the following notes are available G - Bb - C - Db - D - F - G. Notice that each scale has notes in common? Use these to transition to the next scale. Using the tonic of each scale immediately upon the chord change will give the best resolved sound meaning the note obviously will feel more at home. But you can also create a very bluesy dissonant sound by starting on the 5b or dominate 7th.

Most of all just have fun and try not to over think it. Experiment with different notes until you naturally know what these do. The aim is to make the notes create an emotion. Record yourself often and listen back to what you have played. The scales are a starting point, the aim is to be able to just play what you feel.

If you're new to all this start simply.

The pentatonic scale of the key you're in can be used throughout the 12 bars. Continue to use the C blues scale when you change to F and G.

The blues pentatonic scale is I, bIII, IV, V, bVII. In C that's C, Eb, F, G, Bb.

I came to blues via guitar so I just use chords in a shuffle rhythm in the left hand and use the right hand to improvise/muck about/throw in standard licks from the pentatonic of the key I'm in, not the chord I'm on.

Later on you can add notes from the chord you're on, e.g. an A while playing F major. You can also change the scale but it's like changing 'mode' rather than changing key.

Keep it easy while you build up some experience. Play a blues in E flat using Eb, Ab and Bb chords in the left hand and all the black keys (and only the black keys) in the right hand 'melody'.

You'll develop a feel for what notes what best for the chord you're on but start out by using the same five notes but with a different home note:-
C - C, Eb, F, G, Bb
F - F, G, Bb, C, Eb
G - G, Bb, C, Eb, F

Does that make sense?

I love this forum, this is great!

I made a mistake in the first post, I meant to say "in the RIGHT hand"

Thank you very much, this all makes perfect sense.
That's exactly what I wanted to hear, actually. I knew there were more possibilities than C blues scale over the C blues, but what really confused me was a transition between those scales.



Could you explain a bit more?

The most pleasing and direct way to play over a blues progression is to use one scale, and not to change with every chord. So in C, use C, Eb, F, F#, G, and Bb over all the chords.
The trick is to find the patterns, riffs or licks, that fit with the chord you're using. For example, you may want to avoid playing the F# as a primary note on a G7 chord, but is would work very well as a passing tone.

Another thing to consider it to use what is called a tonal centre and have all of your improvisation circle around and reference this centre, at least for one chorus. So, you can play C Eb, low A, low G, then C again as a riff or lick, and can use this over C7 and F7. Once you get to G7, you CAN do the same, but it will challenge your ears a bit. YOU could alternately play a Bb and/or G over the G7 chord, then go back to the C Eb low A thing to completely the 12 bar blues.

I hope this helps.

The scale of notes to play with Blues in the key of C has a few more notes than C, Eb, F, F#, G, and Bb.

Its C, Eb/E, (w/the Eb as a grace note), F, F#, G, A and Bb.

I recommend you listen to the masters of Blues Piano, and copy/transcribe their short licks. Here is a short list of some, in roughly chronological order:

Maceo Merriweather, Champion Jack DuPree, Sunnyland Slim, Pinetop Perkins, Memphis Slim, Otis Spann, Ray Charles (early stuff moreso).

You can also listen to a guitar player who plays a basic simple solo lead line, or fill-in riff, and copy those. BB King and Albert King are good examples of that.

For example, in the key of C, BB starts many tunes with G - A - C - Eb/E - C as a pickup line, with the first beat of the first measure of the 12 bar sequence on the C at the end of that pickup line, so you would play a C or C7 chord w/the left hand on that beat.

I'd look at this as more of a combination of the minor and major blues. (C Eb, F, F#, G, Bb-- Minor Blues) and (C, D, [Eb], E, G, A-- Major Blues).

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using both scales, but it can get trickier to understand when to play what note where, don't you think? I've found with my students that when I give them LESS choices they sound better at the beginning, and the more adventurous ones will discover the other scale notes by themselves.

I have found that teaching Blues by understanding scales does not work very well.

Blues music is "caught" much more than it is "taught"...I have much better results personally and in teaching by listening and transcribing a phrase than trying to figure out which scale is which, and which note from which scale fits.

Which is why most of the early Blues masters on any instrument, be it guitar, piano, harp, were taught by example, listening to others and copying what they heard. Many did not even know how to read music.

But, YMMV!!

A blues in C would register to your ear as C until you used a final cadence in another key. Introducing other notes to the scale you're using doesn't register as a key change but a mood change.

For a blues song in C you use steps I, bIII, IV, V, bVII to form the basic pentatonic scale. If you were to use the F blues scale (F, Ab, Bb, C, Eb), as was suggested by another responder, to play in the key of C the flatted third of F, Ab, would be the bVI in C giving a different mood but still a C blues. It wouldn't sound like a modulation to F major.

Likewise the G blues scale (G, Bb, C, D, F) would add the dominant of G, D, as the second of C. The D would register as a nuance to the C blues not a key change to G. It wouldn't sound like an out of tune note but it would add colour like an accidental in diatonic melodies.

With all due respect for rocket88 and scepticalforumguy, the addition of augmeted fourths (F#) or diminished fifths (Gb) et al isn't necessary until you've a bit more experience. I'd leave these alone until you're more comfortable with the mechanics. Then, as rocket88 suggests, listening to the better exponents will increase your own skills.

Oh, and welcome to the forum

Yes, the best way is to listen. As for the scale thing, I teach band to 12 yr olds and most kind of know what blues is,or at least have heard the scales used in rock music etc, but would never have enough interest to seek out great examples of the genre, so the scale thing is a natural extension of what I teach them in class (Bb maj scale month 4 thereabouts).
But I also find that if I just tell them the notes and not the tonal centre thing they just run up and down the scale and lose interest quickly. So, I try the composer's approach in that they need to create something interesting within a certain framework. It works surprisingly well for about 90% of the students.

Hi Richard, could you post an example of the blues with the above note choices you're talking about so that I can have an idea about how you'd sound on this? I'll do the same if you like. (I do have an F blues in my tag, but it's NOT using standard scales that we're talking about.)

What I'm talking about is using the standard five note blues pentatonic scale. Examples of which are more than plentiful.

Earlier posters, kurtie and Kbeaumont were introducing extra notes, Gb, and playing the F blues scale while playing the F major chord in a C blues. I would have no idea where I might hear that on a blues recording. It would not be indicative of my stuff.

My first post followed the keep it simple approach. My second one responded to the OP's request for an explanation of what I meant by changing mode rather then changing key. I wasn't advocating it.

Sorry if I misled you there!

Richard,

What you refer to as the blues pentatonic scale is actually 6 notes and contains the flat 5, in C, Gb (or F#)
It's extremely common to play C blues scale on a C blues.

there are many many ways to play the blues. There's a free jazz handbook here:
http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/download/FQBK-handbook.pdf
which contains some options for blues changes. A common modification is the so called "Parker Blues" based on Blues for Alice. It's generally recognized because the first chord is an Fmajor 7 rather than dominant 7.

It's also possible to just "play the changes" on the blues, meaning play mixolydian throughout. But it won't sound as gritty as playing a good old Blues scale and blues patterns. Blues patterns make up the blues language so it's good to learn at least a few, even if you intend on playing jazz.

A good one to listen to is Mose Allison.

With all due respect, knotty, the blues pentatonic scale consists of five tones. Hence the name, PENTatonic.

It is over 2000 years old and has been used in a wide variety of cultures. The C blues scale is the minor pentatonic. The same notes also form the Eb major pentatonic scale.

There are myriad variations on what notes are added in Jazz and other genres. The diminished fifth (or augmented fourth) is generally added to the scale as an auxilary note. It is not part of the scale.

I'm not saying it isn't used, though generally I don't make use of it - and I've been paying blues for some forty to fifty years - but I'm not advocating its use to someone who is "new to all this" like the OP.

Hmmm... Blues pentatonic? Yes then, only 5 notes. In my neck of the woods we call it the blues scale (either major or minor) and it will have the 'blue' or bent note approximated by either the b5 or b3 in there as was custom in the singing and guitar styles of playing way back when, thus having 6 notes in the scale.
So maybe the 'blue' note is not really a note, but IMHO it becomes the most important note in the entire scale by how it acts with those around it. But you're right in that the b5 (or b3 in major blues) can be difficult to use properly. Most beginners use it like bad catering companies use salt.

>>It is over 2000 years old and has been used in a wide variety of cultures. The C blues scale is the minor pentatonic. The same notes also form the Eb major pentatonic scale.
This is incorrect. The blues scale has the so called blue note in it, which is the 5b. Blues Scale = minor pentatonic + the flat 5.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues_scale

>> So maybe the 'blue' note is not really a note, but IMHO it becomes the most important note in the entire scale by how it acts with those around it.
I agree that it's probably the most important note in the blues.
Harmonica players (blues harp) are good at that because that blue note is used by playing the blues on a harmonica in a different key. This forces the player to bend the note, which gives it a very "dirty" quality. And that makes it sound really good.

Not wanting to be argumentative, at least not in a malicious way but the article you quoted states that 'blues scale' refers to a 'few' scales with differing numbers of pitches and related characteristics.

And further: "The hexatonic, or six note, blues scale consists of the minor pentatonic scale plus the #4th or b5th degree"

So using your own reference source it is not me that is incorrect!

I have been most careful in my posts to cite the pentatonic as the scale rather than just a blues scale, except in a couple of instances where context should make it clear.

The blue note is not just the flatted fifth. (Eek! Who am I arguing with here?) It is any flatted note, usually third and seventh, but also sometimes fifth.

The harmonica players, I am one, use "cross harp" to play in a different mode, eg using a C harp to play in G using Mixolydian mode (flattened seventh). It doesn't force you to bend a note.

Bending is possible on a harp, however, by sucking real hard on the lower notes or blowing real hard (or intensely) on the higher ones, like bending a string on guitar. Some holes permit a two or even three semitone bend. The "dirty" quality is because the bend is neither precise nor stable, again like bending a string on guitar.

And while I'm in retaliatory mood, the most important note in any scale must perforce be the tonic! There are many blues songs that don't even use the flatted fifth. How many songs can you name, in any genre, that don't use the tonic?