Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Technical merits of Petrof and Hailun

You state an opinion as if it were a fact.

I do not know what type of pianos are produced in America, I played on several NY Steinway, not bad pianos, but I think Hamburg S&S are for sure a little bit ahead. If one wants to speak about the tone of a piano one should play a lot of instruments to judge about it. Personaly, as a pianist I had oportunity to try realy a lot of instruments, both on the concert podiums, competitions and institutions.. From Walter and Graf and Streicher that were around 1850. to a lot of good brands prior ww II (Bechstein, Steinway, Foerster, Boesendorfer, Bluethner etc.) all the way to Yamaha S and Kawai Shigeru. I played on some pianoforte replicas at my University. The thing is, that money is not important to me, it has no relation to the value of sound. For the reasons I sad earlier we now have the sound we have, and the argument why this is so good is that it is enough cheap for the sound it gives. This is too sad for me. It is the logic I simply cannot accept. Yes it all started with Japanese pianos, Korean also, so now we have what we have. They are very convincing though. I was at one competition as a student. There was two pianos on the podium, new Kawai and an 10 Years old Steinway. I had my half of hour to try the piano and there was a Kawai tech who were convincing me to play on Kawai. Very good piano, nice touch, tone, very supple so to say.. But I tryed also the Steinway. I was used to them, so it was simply a Steinway. Kawai tech tryed to convince me more to play on it, but there was one man who sad to me, go in the upper row in the audience and listen this two pianos. He played, wow, uncomparable, Kawai sounded like a can, nothing of the piano I heard when I played on it. That is one of basicaly differencees from a good and bad pianos, good piano develops its sound in the space, bad one closes as you go away from it. Maybe because of that the pianists are more and more used to bad pianos, theye are simply listening themself in the room, without emphasis on the sound that the audience would hear. I am convinced that a 100. Years old Steinway and Your Hailun cannot be compared in any way, simply, music is art, art is magic, and there is no magic there....
From the technitian point of view. 100. years old Steinway, regulated, cleaned, eventualy with new heads, absolutly beautiful piano that will for sure last anouther century. Your piano? Try imagine it in 100. years. Ok one says I need it to last maybe a quarter of a century, but then we are not talking of the same things and we cannot understand each other....

pianoloverus,

While what you state is true, when it is Sparky's money, to him it is fact. Isn't that all that matters to the purchaser?


Jonathan

It's all that matters but I don't think it's a fact. I always find people's subjective opinions if stated as fact far less convincing then if expressed as an opinion.

I can agree with that. Thanks.

Jonathan

I have been following all the posts in my thread very keenly, and it has been an interesting read. There are a lot of things to consider with this decision, so I will take onboard what you folks have said in making it.

I think it's now reached the stage where I've played too many pianos in a short time and I need to pull back and have a break for the rest of the week, then come back to it with a short list and play only those pianos in my price range, and with the considerations in mind from discussions like this one.

So thanks again for all your contributions, it's been most interesting. I'll continue to read any more that appear.

Cheers.

I got my Hailun 198 for just over $15k. A steal.

Please clue me in to what in "fact" is a piano that you think would be comparable to the size and quality of the Hailun 198 for that price.

(Remember, I am in Toronto, Canada and the used market here is ridiculously priced).

It is a good deal to buy a used piano of a good manufacturer from let's say ebay for 3 k EUR/USD and then give it rebuilded, one can get for 15k very good piano....

Ridiculously high or low?

Gregor

Yes, I had considered that, but unfortunately there is very little being advertised in terms of great older pianos - especially in Melbourne. I don't know where they are hiding - logic tells me they must be somewhere. Sometimes you find them at rebuilder's shops claiming to have had a full rebuild but they don't feel right to me. I get the feeling they haven't had the full treatment and have merely been restrung and a few other things done. I played a Bechstein that I think should have been an incredible piano, but it really wasn't because it hadn't been rebuilt to the extent they said it was. The action felt old and imprecise. They also have insane price tags on these pianos - as in $25k+ for an incomplete rebuild. Melbourne is a difficult market, I must admit. Much better value in Sydney. I might have to go up to Sydney to check out what they have to offer.

People in the US have no idea how lucky they are in terms of availability of pianos at reasonable prices. Australia is really a very poor place to go piano shopping. So much less choice - both new and second-hand. So much more expensive...

I'm reluctant to buy a piano that I have not heard or played, that's why I wouldn't buy a cheap rebuilder piano. If I were to consider that, I'd want to be able to play an identical model which had been rebuilt so I could have a good sense of whether it would suit me. That's the main reason I've been looking at new pianos. I'm open to pianos up to 15 years old with a solid maintenance record though.

I understand that, I had similar story, had to go to Germany to buy a piano. But it was 700 km for me, not 7000... European market is full of good pianos, both rebuilded and in original condition. But, I saw that many times partialy rebuilded pianos are better than fully rebuilded. It depends of the qualitty of a rebuilder also, so when you say that piano doesnt feel good to you, it is likely the tech is not so good... It is a real quest to buy a piano, because more or less, people buy only one grand pro life... Good luck!

Yes I agree that the "all new" is not always the best way, actions are so sensitive but also for instance recapping abridge or changing a pinblock should be done with similar techniques or materials than at the factory, and that is not so often the case.

The resource level left by an old instrument is also variable, and what I noticed is that the best rebuilders are often not the best concert techs, or does not came from the musical side of things. SO an association between a first class rebuilder and avery good concert technician is probably the best choice (and rare enough)

Musical taste in germany seem to change also, we have seen much pianos with avery clear tone at the edge of harsh, considered as having the right level of brillancy.

But with the latest developments in felts and more respect for older pianos, this seem to be changing, hopefully.

Yes Isaac, thats why I will for example change my Abels with Ronsen. My piano sounds a little bit too "new", although it is very good. A lot of my colegaus are very satisfied with it and do not understand what am I looking for. Ok, maybe I am a little bit exagurated but I can permitt it to myself . Yes today mostly people put the delignith plates for the pinblock, it for sure has to have some impact on the sound. Bleaching soundboard, modern varnish instead of colophonium, polyester instead of schellack and so on. It is hard to find the rebuilders that are trying to leave as much original document as possible, mostly everyone are putting new parts in, although it is not always neccesary.

So not only do I need to find a good quality old piano as a rebuild candidate, but I also need to find an expert tech who knows exactly how to rebuild it, using the correct techniques and materials? Now you know why I abandoned that line of enquiry. It's just safer to get something newer that doesn't need a rebuild. I wouldn't even know where to start in terms of finding the right rebuilder in Melbourne. They all claim to be the best in town.

You may find them after visiting, trying pianos quietely.

Finding advices from non involved people is possible and visibly helpful. A new customer of mine called me asking advice to buy a second hand vertical for her son, 2 years only of playing.

I was very surprized to see how fine she analysed the market, models and brands, only because she have read the forums and she have some musical ear. She finally find a 7 years old 116 Seiler, for 4200 and she knows she cannot be wrong . But she took some time to try different pianos, in differnt places, listened to new or old Yamahas she understand fast where the tone differs from German pianos, etc

But I understand you it takes time anyway ;;;

One has to be very careful with all the people claiming theye are the best. I understand you, wait for a year or so and buy a Petrof, in the mean time maybe you could rent a piano if you need it to practise...

It is ridiculously high (with a poor selection generally), which is why I eventually decided to buy one of the better new Chinese pianos.