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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,845
2000 Post Club Member
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Joined: May 2003
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Just yesterday, Bill wrote that the sound of ET major keys is the same as A Major in a WT. So, if ET M3s are awful, do you find that A major in EBVT-III sounds "awful" too? And if it does, what about those remote keys? They are even less "smooth and musical" than A Major. By that measure, E Major should actually sound gruesome, B Major horrific, and F# major should be a right-down ghastly emetic.
Again, I ask:
How is it that busy M3s are called "spicy" when they form part of a WT, but even 14 cent M3s are called "awful" when they form part of ET?
(I've never seen anyone avoid A Major in a WT just because it has that "awful ET sound".) Greetings, For myself, the horror of ET is the sameness, not the size of the third. That 14 cent third is just another tonal value, something that can be successfully resolved to from somewhere even more expressive. It is a perfectly useful width, (or color,if you like). However, a WT has a range of values, and ET does not, which is the crux of the temperament debate. Some hear the music working with the changes in keys, others do not. It is not unlike the "Magic Eye" pictures, in which some people are able to see the hidden, synthesized image. Those that cannot will never be convinced by hearing others describe it, they will only really grasp it when they see it. Once the sound of ET is heard in the context of a wider range of intonation, it's real nature becomes more obvious. Side by side pianos, tuned in ET and WT, will usually do this. I've done it, a lot. With rooms full of techs, or music teachers, or students. Results are always the same. Regards,
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,028
4000 Post Club Member
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4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,028 |
Just yesterday, Bill wrote that the sound of ET major keys is the same as A Major in a WT. So, if ET M3s are awful, do you find that A major in EBVT-III sounds "awful" too? And if it does, what about those remote keys? They are even less "smooth and musical" than A Major. By that measure, E Major should actually sound gruesome, B Major horrific, and F# major should be a right-down ghastly emetic.
Again, I ask:
How is it that busy M3s are called "spicy" when they form part of a WT, but even 14 cent M3s are called "awful" when they form part of ET?
(I've never seen anyone avoid A Major in a WT just because it has that "awful ET sound".) Greetings, For myself, the horror of ET is the sameness, not the size of the third. That 14 cent third is just another tonal value, something that can be successfully resolved to from somewhere even more expressive. It is a perfectly useful width, (or color,if you like). However, a WT has a range of values, and ET does not, which is the crux of the temperament debate. Some hear the music working with the changes in keys, others do not. It is not unlike the "Magic Eye" pictures, in which some people are able to see the hidden, synthesized image. Those that cannot will never be convinced by hearing others describe it, they will only really grasp it when they see it. Once the sound of ET is heard in the context of a wider range of intonation, it's real nature becomes more obvious. Side by side pianos, tuned in ET and WT, will usually do this. I've done it, a lot. With rooms full of techs, or music teachers, or students. Results are always the same. Regards, I totally agree with ED on this one. It is not that A Major sounds bad, it is that in ET, everything sounds like A Major. Nothing comes to it nor departs from it. For me, to listen to a piano tuned in ET, there is nothing outright disturbing about it but there is a sorely missing lack of contrast and clarity. Everything has a certain indistinctness about it that is not as satisfying as a WT provides. It is worse when the High Treble is too flat and the Bass too sharp.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 46
Full Member
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Full Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 46 |
Bill: Amen to the last post. You have described my feelings exactly. By the way, what intervals do "sharp bass" tuners use to tune that way. We had a tuner in my area that I would follow that tunes his bass really sharp, and I could never figure what checks he might use.
C belknap
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,456
2000 Post Club Member
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2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,456 |
Just yesterday, Bill wrote that the sound of ET major keys is the same as A Major in a WT. So, if ET M3s are awful, do you find that A major in EBVT-III sounds "awful" too? And if it does, what about those remote keys? They are even less "smooth and musical" than A Major. By that measure, E Major should actually sound gruesome, B Major horrific, and F# major should be a right-down ghastly emetic.
Again, I ask:
How is it that busy M3s are called "spicy" when they form part of a WT, but even 14 cent M3s are called "awful" when they form part of ET?
(I've never seen anyone avoid A Major in a WT just because it has that "awful ET sound".) Greetings, For myself, the horror of ET is the sameness, not the size of the third. That 14 cent third is just another tonal value, something that can be successfully resolved to from somewhere even more expressive. It is a perfectly useful width, (or color,if you like). However, a WT has a range of values, and ET does not, which is the crux of the temperament debate. Some hear the music working with the changes in keys, others do not. It is not unlike the "Magic Eye" pictures, in which some people are able to see the hidden, synthesized image. Those that cannot will never be convinced by hearing others describe it, they will only really grasp it when they see it. Once the sound of ET is heard in the context of a wider range of intonation, it's real nature becomes more obvious. Side by side pianos, tuned in ET and WT, will usually do this. I've done it, a lot. With rooms full of techs, or music teachers, or students. Results are always the same. Regards, I totally agree with ED on this one. It is not that A Major sounds bad, it is that in ET, everything sounds like A Major. Nothing comes to it nor departs from it. For me, to listen to a piano tuned in ET, there is nothing outright disturbing about it but there is a sorely missing lack of contrast and clarity. Everything has a certain indistinctness about it that is not as satisfying as a WT provides. It is worse when the High Treble is too flat and the Bass too sharp. +1
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