Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum 10 year old statement about Chinese pianos

I, (and I can speak for Larry on this), agree that the methodology can certainly be questioned. And, if anyone has a better way, they too are welcome to publish.

It is what it is. And we find that it is very helpful to a significant percentage of shoppers.

This is a good point but in today's market nobody can do less than excellent. Personally I don't know a single manufacturer who is not looking after it's customers very well today.

For example years ago we had an issue with one particular Brodmann grand in Alberta where humidity can go down to 2-5 degrees in winter. The customer received a brand new piano within one week. It even surprised us...

What customers are entitled to is to pick the criteria of choice themselves. Outside tone,touch, musical appeal and of course *price*, these however become harder and harder to determine, at least on a general basis.

Rest assured that anybody coming here and ordering an Estonia or Sauter concert grand before even greeting, won't ever be questioned for even one single second....

Norbert

Actually, that is not true. This article was published in the Sacramento main newspaper last week : KAYSERBURG

Clearly, Pearl River has exactly that in mind and having put these pianos side by side to some of the most revered and prestigious pianos on the planet, I dare say that (IMHO) they are well on their way.


While I accept Kurtman's comments I must admit to chalking it up to "sour grapes." After all, I could counter by saying that most Kawai and Yamaha salesman don't bother selling the virutes of their products compared to the Chinese brands but simply state "well, you know that's made in China don't you?"

It's also disingenuous to point fingers when, not 20 years ago, Japanese manufacturers were touting their affiliation or similarity to German manufacturers, and companies like Kawai even built pianos with names like Schiedmayer!

Thanks for that information.

Nor do those Japanese makers building this very select group of high end pianos. 99% of the rest of their models have nothing to do with these special group and it's not the type piano most shoppers are looking at when considering Japanese.

If and when Kayserburg, Ritmüller or Brodmann will introduce their first "made in Germany" pianos later this year, it also has nothing to do with Chinese pianos in general.

The basic point is that things are moving on for average consumers and at an alarming, ever more rapid pace.

Those who wish to ignore the whole thing can do as they please.

Others may find surprising reward in looking at some of the already incredible, highly appealing "Chinese made" options around them.

Including some of the makes not usually suspected to manufacture there....

Years ago I already said :

"one day there will be only real high end pianos in one group"

"and all the rest in the other"

We're there - or very close.

Norbert

What do the percentages of their pianos made have do with the goals of building the models I mentioned? The answer is "Nothing."

I wouldn't say we are there. But close??? I think we are less than a decade away. From my perspective that IS close.

Hey Steve, I heard you plan to retire in about 10 years?

Norbert

Hello Jeff, just catching up with your comment here. Thanks for expressing your viewpoint.
I'm not always at my best ; )
It's not easy to get a 'read' on many of the different people and personalities that post here. I freely admit that my contributions here aren't always in the most positive light. From my experience on writing on PW (the only forum I've engaged in) it sometimes brings out the worst in me.
I do have somewhat of an issue with China. After a lengthy search I purchased a piano manufactured there, which is a very fine instrument and which I'm also very grateful for.
China to me is somewhat of an abstraction, since I haven't been there. It's easy to imagine that this massive country is populated with a very caring culture. In this day and age it would be wonderful to see/hear/experience more individuals and cultures going beyond the grips of suppression, diminishment, control that I gather from my gleanings.
I couldn't care less about anyones agenda and ego.
We all have this one life to make something, interact, observe and share.

No intended slight towards Kurtmen.

Ultimately, the world of pianos is as insignificant and interesting as most anything else.
I'm very grateful to live in a place in this world (and also recognize it within myself) of freedom of intent, expression, and actuality.
And encourage it.

You do understand that this piece was written by the good folks at Pearl River...?

ddf

Dara:

Nice post - balsam for the soul!

Only an artist from Salt Spring Island could write such insightful, self-depreciating comments. Make sure you'll be on the market when over, glad to get some of your pictures!

Norbert

Del - I thought the same thing myself when I read that article. It's that kind of thinly-disguised puff piece ad which passes for journalism these days. But, it probably does speak to future intentions of Pearl River. Most people remember when the Hyundai Excel came out and it was widely criticized as an automotive piece of junk. Now, their top models compete to a pretty high degree with Lexus. Time does change a lot of things! Who knows? ...twenty years from now, your grandkids could be reading Harry Potter Chang and the Half-Priced Chinese Steinway.

Would it be possible for piano manufacturing to competively return to America with investment in new manufacturing technology? Has any serious thought been given to how this might be done? The old names might be gone but could we see new ideas in product development, new excitement, new brand names our own desire to own inovative affordable high quality state of the art American built pianos?

i) Oh là là Norbert! Those comments were almost direct blows to my sensitive taste-buds....
I can only wonder if you have spent much time in the gastronomic corners of France? Any gourmet - worthy of that title - will advise that before one even gets into savouring the taste, freshness or the way a dish is cooked, there are two additional essential rituals. The appreciation of the initial aroma, followed by how pleasing the dish is to the eye, which necessitates slowly turning the platter.
(Truly, the very first time I set eyes on a new Fazioli, I had to walk around it twice to savour it's splendor before sitting down on the bench to 'taste').
Conversely I bet many folks purchased a Lindner piano thinking it looked pretty good, only to find later that it caused chronic indigestion and heartburn!
Being located in a wonderful corner of SW France, I like to think I know and fully appreciate good food. Believe me, many times I have fallen in love with a dish before ever having tasted it.


ii) Oh yes, very much so in France (with the exception of "expected to be in business" I would think).
I believe that the name of famous chefs here and their restaurants certainly play a part on how a certain 'colour' guide book extolls the virtues of the food - not always justified imho. Not unlike some piano reviews in fact.
"Bon appetit!"

I don't think it's the technology that causes the discrepancy - it's more the cost of labour and cost of production in different countries. More a political thing.

This is the only question that is of any meaning, at least to me. I have always thought exact same and the talk about "Chinese" or for that matter "Japanese" pianos should be seen 'relatively' within the same discussion.

This is especially true considering there are some U.S. makers left today that should have been much more supported, such as C.W or smaller operators like Dell Fandrich.

So, ladies and gentlemen: why is this not happening in your/our own country? If I was American, I certainly would look at this very seriously But so went the affairs of the world and the wise guys starting the whole global economy surely never anticipated [or cared..] what would eventually lie ahead.

With us consumers following eagerly being offered what at least initially looked like ever cheaper prices for consumer goods - including pianos.

Only when we really think about all of this can one understand why the question to which extent others out there like the Chinese are advancing at such incredible speed.

We left a huge void and it was "us" who did this.

Since we have long decided to leave major manufacturing to the Japanese, Mexicans, Chinese etc, it's no good to blame others or keep denying that things are just not happening out there.

They are and - at ferocious speed.

So how to convert all of this back to scratch one?

You tell me.

Norbert

The chinese do make some beautiful black lacquer decorative cabinets, with centuries old
expertise, so I expect their piano finishes to be beautiful....
now making a beautifully sounding piano is another matter entirely...

ando - I think you're spot on with your comments. Take the example of Apple, for instance, with their iPads. They are built with the latest "bleeding edge" technology by Foxcomm in China. Even if that technology could be exported to the US, the labor costs could not be matched. Sad to say, but if $499 Chinese-made iPads were sold in the same store with identically-spec'd "Made in the USA" models for $1299, those American-made ones would languish on the shelves. While the piano market differs significantly from the electronics trade, many of the same economic principles apply. The median (half make more, half make less) income of the typical US family is now $49,445 as of 2010. It has probably dropped since then. So even if a very efficient American company decided to produce extremely high-quality pianos (at say half the price of a Steinway), they would have a steep market climb to establish themselves in these tough economic times. The median US family generally could not afford one, and would still be looking elsewhere for a lower-priced alternative. Just as a curiosity, I think it would be fascinating to know what the incomes are, of today's piano buyers, in relation to the amount they spend on their pianos. But I think it's safe to say that Walmart employees rarely visit Steinway Hall to purchase their pianos.

Norbert - Just this week, we learned that the average Canadian Family has a higher net worth than their US counterparts. Better man those border crossings with Machine-gun Mounties like Texas and Arizona! BTW, thanks for the Kayserburg PM info!

No, no it's your guys at the border that shine these things in our face when we Cunucks are visiting you.....

Even had to give up my 2 apples, lettuce and avocados [ all imported from U.S.]

P.S.the Cascades are wonderful and we much loved our little excursion. Almost ended up playing at the Winthrop Blues Festival on way home...

Norbert