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Korg could really end it for keyboards like the ES7 if they release that rumoured SV-2 based on Kronos.

Their R+D team must be staggered that since the cool but flawed SV-1, noone has yet put a great piano sample, great EPs and great organs in a single, reasonably priced portable package.

That goal is still wide open, I really hope Korg won't miss it next time.

Steve,
Did you compare MP6 to MP10 before buying the latter?

If so, what about the difference in the actions?
Is it in your opinion as a MP10 owner so small too?

Sport? JFP should get an Olympic gold medal for teeth-gritting in the face of marketing-generated adversity.

+1

No, I don't think so. I don't recall hearing any complaints from owners of the ES6, which used a similar stand design.

Cheers,
James
x

Perhaps having bumped once too often against the similarly placed cross brace of our old Z-stand, my knees are now kind of claustrophobic.

I use a nice K&M stand for my MP6 (I'll look up the number) , no bumps and plenty of options (second stand, mic stand, laptop stand, etc) . One of my purchase reasons was leg space / knee space , like what you're talking about . I don't expect the ES stand to have too little room though, but a third party stand may have more options. For at home the ES bundle (stand + three pedal unit) seems a nice package.

Are all three pedals dynamic , or just the damper ? And can you change what a pedal controls ; e.g. could one of them behave as an expression pedal ? The ES lacks the expression pedal input that the mp series has. If the three pedal unit could compensate/ substitute for that, that would be great.

K&M are the best IMO.

+1

No I didn't compare before buying the MP10. Well, not a straight comparison but I did play another Kawai with the same action (CS-3 I think it was). I thought that action - RH - was very good indeed.

Anyway I played the MP6 for the first time a couple of weeks back and I have to be honest and say it sounded pretty much the same as the MP10 to me (main piano voice). I like the MP10's action more in totality but there are elements of the RH action I prefer. Whilst I wouldn't ask for the very abrupt bottoming out of a Roland action I think the MP10's action could do with being just a little crisper at the bottom of its travel. It's mushy, like there's too much cushioning. But overall I prefer the RM3 action of the MP10 - it's just so smooth and enjoyable to play.

As a fairly portable device with great action and good (but not outstanding) sound I think the MP6 represents better overall value than the MP10. The MP10's EPs are good though, very respectable and if that is a priority for anyone I don't think the MP6 can quite cut it with the best (MP10 is competitive in that respect though).

Cheers,

Steve

Steve, thank you for your reply.



It’s very probable, maybe I am deaf but to me many digital pianos sound very similar. For example, using headphones, I REALLY like the main piano on my old Roland FP7. Personally I don’t hear big improvement sound wise as far as the Roland FP-7f is concerned. But once again, maybe I’m deaf .



That’s the point! Maybe it’s the beginning of arthritis but the abrupt bottoming out of my Roland PHA II action is just plainly hurting my hands. Thirty minutes of playing and I feel pain in my fingers. At the same time I am able to practice on my acoustic upright for much, much longer.
I would risk to say that Roland actions (to me PHA III is the same) can be fingers joints killers if you are over forty.

Fatar actions in Nord pianos aren’t any better in this matter.

I love Yamaha sounds but its actions never impress me much.Avant Grands are beasts from another world.

So the winner in this competition seems to be obvious - Kawai.
Thanks to Kawai James and his magnificent job on this Forum I am definitely Kawai Man, never neither playing nor even seeing a single Kawai instrument…:).
(James, you should get a really big rise in your salary and immediate promotion ).

So at present my favorites are MP6, MP10, ES7 or MP7 and MP11 with their Grand Feel actions – I have no doubts we will see descendants of MP6 and MP10 equipped according to CA 65/95 lines. I will visit Thomann store as soon as they have CA65/95. It is only about 900 km drive .

(Please forgive my language mistakes but I very seldom write in English)

@James or other Kawai expert; I repeat my question about the three pedal option for the ES; since it seems to lack a third pedal input (expression) , could one of the three pedals of this optional unit be programmed/ used as an expression pedal. E.g. For Wah sounds (clavinet, Ep). Otherwise idea for future firmware update ? Will only work if the other pedals are also continuous; if they are switch types, it'll be a no-go anyway.

AFAIK, the pedals are restricted to damper, soft and rotary speed control, and I believe you need the Kawai F-20 dual pedal for the additional non-damper functions.

For expression pedal control, you will probably need to rig up something via MIDI, using CC#11.

There are two connectors for pedals: one for the f10 and one for the f20 ; on p14 the introduction states you can connect the f10 or (!) the f20. It goes never in detail about what happens if you use both and what the options are for the three pedals you have with the combination of both. How the "three pedal board" is connected and what control options it provides is also not clear. Thats why I would like to know...would be nice of you could use sort of an expression pedal somehow...

Ok, well the Kawai wooden actions are very forgiving at the bottom of the travel and would probably be the best choice for you. Likewise, although they are not of the same general quality the Korg RH3 action has a softness at the end of the key travel that is very comfortable.

The irony is that I played a Kawai K2 upright yesterday and its action had extremely abrupt and hard key bottoming. It was used, but in decent condition.

By the way, your English is very good!

Cheers,

Steve

It does tell you the options in the manual, and that does not include expression. As I said in my post, unless I am very much mistaken, the only option for an expression pedal is via MIDI.

As for 3 pedals, it seems you are restricted to 2 via the damper and damper/soft inputs. The F-20 provides both damper and soft, and therefore connecting an additional damper pedal would be redundant. It MAY be possible to use two independent damper and soft pedals, but that would still restrict you to the damper/soft/rotary options. Unless Kawai offers a firmware update to include additional functionality, you're back to MIDI for that.

Think of it this way, the ES7 is not designed to be a full stage piano. The ES7 relates to the MP6 in the same way that the Roland FP-7F relates to the RD-700NX (or 300NX). The FP-7F is a compromise when it comes to using it live, so if you need all the additional functionality, you need to buy the NX.

You're probably right. Thanks or the clarification . If there is indeed some extra gain in adding the third pedal, 'someone' might know (and post accordingly ) , otherwise it's probably as you said. Damp/ soft, no additional frills...and only the damper with continuous / half pedal function.

Wish there was an mp6 II / 7 on the horizon, or upgrade path to RH II for the current MP ;-)

The ES7 features three pedal connectors, intended for the following pedals:

- F-10H (single pedal, 1/4" jack, digital)
- F-20 (double pedal, 1/4" jack, analogue)
- F-301 (triple pedal, mini-DIN jack, digital)

As far as I am aware, the ES7 does not allow pedal functions to be re-assigned, nor does it allow multiple pedal units (e.g. F-10H + F-20) to be connected simultaneously.

However, I am grateful for the interesting suggestions in this thread - some of which have been forwarded to the development team.

Cheers,
James
x

Triple sensor question ( probably a stupid one, but nevertheless); will the triple sensitivity also be output to Midi out , so you can more subtly control a SW piano ? My technological knowledge says yes of course, but since assumption is always dangerous I'll ask it anyway.

So will the extra key-down info (or half-key down if you like) be used for external sound sources (correctly output through Midi). Or will only internal sounds benefit from this 3 sensor feature...?

Typically three sensor actions do not transmit partial key down information per se. The MIDI signal sent is either NOTE ON (and the velocity) or NOTE OFF.

The thing with a two-sensor action is that every NOTE ON is followed by a NOTE OFF. So if you play the same note three times quickly you might get

NOTE ON (34)
NOTE OFF
NOTE ON (52)
NOTE OFF
NOTE ON (39)
NOTE OFF

As if the damper was silencing the note in between each strike. However, in a grand piano you can hit the string again without lowering the dampers or resetting the hammer completely. In MIDI speak this is typically transmitted as

NOTE ON (34)
NOTE ON (52)
NOTE ON (39)
NOTE OFF

If your piano tone generator is smart enough, it will interpret this as the latter two strikes utilizing the double-escapement feature.

You can think of the highest sensor (the first one tripped as we move the key down) as controlling the damper and the lower two as computing the impact velocity. If you keep the key below the highest sensor, the dampers do not engage and you can hit the key again and again by triggering the lower two. However, if you don't lift the key above the middle sensor, then you don't get any MIDI signals.

Notice that in the ES7, according to James, the velocity at which the key is lifted is also taken into account in some fashion internally. I'm not sure exactly how that works, but the note lift velocity is not used by any external engine that I know of. I assume what would happen is that the NOTE OFF MIDI signal also has a velocity, but AFAIK it is always ignored.