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Hello everybody, this is my first post

Please don't scold me. I have used the search function and most of the postings on Singapore are quite dated.
So here goes.

I am an adult beginner hoping to learn classical piano. I will be 33 soon, so I hope it's not too late for me.

Currently I am shopping for my first upright piano. Initially my budget is S$5000, but now I don't mind paying a bit more to get something better that can last a decade or two.

I am a bit lost and confused at the many varieties of piano available: different brands, models, countries, factories, ... So I hope that someone can recommend a good and decently priced upright piano for a beginner.

I am quite interested in the new Kawai K series (K3), or a Yamaha (U1 amd M112T), but someone mentioned somewhere here that Kawai in Singapore is overpriced and the pricings are not very transparent. Are the Korean made, or the Indonesian or the Chinese clones (U1J) any good?

Also I don't mind getting a used piano, but don't even know how to play the piano (yet), let alone evaluate one.

I would appreciate if the replies are more relevant to Singapore, but all replies are welcome lah!

Please help, as I really want to learn the piano. Been thinking about it since my high school days!

I think both Kawai and Yamaha are pretty safe choices, and it will ultimately boil down to your own preferences for tone and touch. If you do not feel comfortable with evaluating tone/touch, then get an experienced player to come along with you. In general, I like Yamahas for their action, although I must say the Kawais have caught up more recently.

That said, for the amount you are willing to spend, which I would presume to be no more than S$7-8K, there are many many other options you could consider. Try Gramercy at Tg Katong Road, to try out their Bohemia (Czech made), and Wilhelm Tell (China made). They both seem reasonably priced and nice sounding instruments. You could also try the Petrof uprights (Czech made) at Music Lodge, at Bukit Timah shopping centre - they sell used Yamahas and Kawais too. And at Bukit Timah Plaza, there's the Pianoman's shop, that sells Nottingham (China made), alongside Ibach . Don't forget to visit Chiu Piano at Thomson Plaza for the Cramers and Kembles, which might be within your budget. And lastly, I think Perzina is great value, very affordable with a nice silky action and deep bass - certainly enough to give Yamaha and Kawai a run for their money! You can find them at Sonata Music House (at Singapore SHopping Centre and Teck Whye).

While you're at it, you might also want to try out some higher end German pianos at these shops (Ibach at the Pianoman, Schimmel, Wilhelm Steinberg at Chiu Piano). I would also strongly recommend a visit to Raffles Piano at Victoria Concert Hall, which sells only Sauter and provides outstanding service - I bought my grand from him. While these German pianos are likely to be out of your budget for now, they do provide a benchmark for comparison. Downside of course, is that you could get too spoilt by too much of a good thing!

The bottomline is, just keep your mind open and explore all the available options. Singapore is a small place and you should be able to visit all the abovementioned shops within a couple of weekends.

Hope this helps

you can't go very wrong with yamaha or kawai here. the more open your mind is, the deeper you'll have to dish out from your pocket. however, enjoy your shopping and learn more about other piano makes and what sets them uniquely apart from each other.

there's only one dealer selling new kawai in s'pore... so how could the price be not transparent? the only variance could be due to their occasional promotion prices. prices for yamaha is also controlled by their hq and they too goes up and down few times a year...

search my posts and do your own recce.

First stop, give a call to Alvin and make an appointment and listen/play with the Sauters. That should be your benchmark. After that, your hunting process will be more meaningful, at least you know what to aim for.

At that budget, your best bets would be a good 2nd hand, or a Petrof/Bohemia if you don't mind East European, or a Yamaha/Kawai. These are grouped together for the type of sound they offer.

Next is to get a good teacher, who can nuture your interest.

Dear all,

Following the advice of Wzkit, I went piano shopping all over Singapore these few days.

First stop Robert Piano to look at the Kawai K3, which is exactly what I did, just look only. The service is courteous, but a bit cold. The guy didn't really say much. He didn't lift the cover or ask me if I want play the piano (which I can't of course).

Then off to Katong to look at the Bohemias and the Wilhem Tells. The service is quite nice, warm and informal. But I didn't quite like the sound of the Bohemia. Seems a bit bloated and fat, like it's a bit muddled or muted and you couldn't quite hear the individual notes clearly. Is this the European sound I wonder? Maybe I enjoy a crispier, brighter sound?

Lastly the Perzina at Orchard. The action feels very good, quite light and very smooth. The sound is quite nice too, but seems to differ substantially from set to set. The nice lady told me the sound can be changed by tuning to my liking. Really? The price is quite good too.

Maybe will go down to see the Sauter

Definitely go see the Sauter. I think it will be quite a different experience playing a piano of a different league altogether. At least for me, Sauter was initially way out of my budget, but over a period of 7 months of continuously playing that piano, Alvin convinced me to nearly double my original budget!

Wzkit, who's the guy who refurbishes 2nd hand pianos? Pass the contact to artemov.

Yes. Its Emmanuel and Sons at Little India, opposite Mustafa Centre. I think it is possible to get a great deal on a used piano there, and some of them are still in good shape!

Can't seems to contact Alvin, maybe he's overseas?

Is this Emmanuel and Sons any good?

Alvin's in Bali at the moment..should be back next week. Try next Thursday.

Emmanuel and Sons has very reasonably priced used pianos. At your budget, you might even be able to get a used Yamaha grand, in reasonable condition.

Btw, I went to Pianomaster at Geylang East, to try out their Wendl & Lung pianos. Pretty good for a Chinese piano, with a very deep bass. If you liked Perzina, you might just like this piano.

Just wondering, is it possible to find any used German piano (Sauter, Bluthner, Bechstein , ...) in Sg?

Will try Alvin again next week. Really want to listen to the Sauter

Yes, in fact, there is a 8 year old used Sauter on consignment at Alvin's place. Amazing piano with an amazing bass. I would grab it myself if I had the room for it.

Hi guys,
I'm from Singapore too!!

Every tried looking around at Christofori at Bedok or Asia Piano or Zadok piano? They are all well prep and tuned. Some shops doesn't tune thier piano on display.. always say .. just arrived. Yeah, Piano Master has very nice sounding Baby Grands.

hi snoopycar,

where's zadok, haven't heard of it before.
which brand do they carry?

i've visited asia piano and they do bring a lot of old jap models, 2nd hand schimmel. the old seasoned yamaha ux series sure do give even some new german ones a run on their money.

Hi Mendo
It's at Balestier shopping or complex.. Shaw something.. I forgot. They have Imported Yamaha, Kawai ... Can freely test there, very good pricing too.

Asia piano, very helpful and friendly guys - no pressure sales. Highly skilled tuner. Have Grand piano there - frequently, 1 or 2pcs.

Hi Artemov,
there is a new piano dealer at bukit timah beauty world shopping complex, 2nd floor.
selling Krakauer and Sun.Tenor, both chinese pianos if i am correct.
never tried the pianos but if my memeory is correct, says in advertisement that Sun.Tenor features Steingraeber action.
don't know if that means the "rolling knuckle" action of Steingraeber.
visited the shop twice, it was closed. you have to call the dealer through the number on display.

I strongly support the suggestion that you should visit Alvin and try the Sauter pianos. it will be a most enriching trip.

sauter...
only if i have S$30k to spare. year end coming and my wife hinting we go japan for tour....

have been making sacrifices these years, that's why also looking at used piano shops like pianoman, asiapiano, music lodge....

however i also accidentally stepped into places like the chiu piano, raffles, galleria .....

I had a Yamaha U5 (I think it was the tallest upright at that time). It served me well for a number of years until I had to get a grand for my diploma. I really liked Yamaha for all-around quality/price.

Have to disagree with artemov's comment about Robert Piano. We went in first asking to see Steinways (and they gladly obliged when I asked to try, even letting me try the B when we told them that it was way out of our range). Their demeanor did not change when we asked to see the Kawais.

i will out-of-topic on robert piano for a while for the benefit of artemov and i don't work for them.

this i what i had gather after a few rounds of visits at their various outlets.

1. the salespersons don't earn any commission unlike yamaha sales. that's why you get the different enthusiasm.

2. different salespersons have different persona.
but if you wanna try most of the units, go to millenia. but the salesguy have rooms for improvement. luv his ties anyway. look for the boss, robert if you have lots of questions. he's a master technician.

3. you really have to open your mouth to get what you want! that includes trying the piano. if you don't play the piano, ask one the experts there. each outlet has one each. the one over at centrepoint have over 35yrs teaching experience.
the millenia has one young guy.

you also have to be upfront with them what type of piano you are looking for, who is using, what level. otherwise you get a lost or blur response from them too.

with more enthusiasm and interest in certain models, and i don't mean buying, on your side, you will get a reciprocrating response. it works for me, all the time.

Hi all,

Thanks for all the replies.

Done a few more visiting this past week. Also learnt to open my mouth and use my fingers a bit more ;P

So far, my impression of piano dealers in Sg are pretty positive, almost all of them are professional, courteous and knowledgeable. Much much better than electronics, electricals and renovation!

Went down to Asia Piano today. Really tempted by their two used Kawai K50. Music Lodge also has at least 1 used K80. Hmmmm ....

Will visit Pianoman and that Zadok place soon.

Actually I have visited Alvin twice already. Fantastic guy. Learnt so much from him. Sauter is so nice, but also very expensive *sigh*