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Topic Options
#1937027 - 08/03/12 05:46 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9551
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
test
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1937103 - 08/03/12 09:44 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9551
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
test
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1937155 - 08/04/12 01:43 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9551
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
test
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1937249 - 08/04/12 10:25 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9551
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
test
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1937264 - 08/04/12 11:00 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
playliszt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 450
Loc: Oh/Fla
issue resolved


Edited by playliszt (08/06/12 04:02 PM)

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#1937273 - 08/04/12 11:18 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
playliszt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 450
Loc: Oh/Fla
issue resolved


Edited by playliszt (08/06/12 04:03 PM)

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#1937295 - 08/04/12 12:38 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3484
Loc: Pennsylvania
Anyone else unable to see the 13th page of this thread? These database errors are driving me nuts. (I'm actually posting to add something to the 13th page, in case the error is that a post got deleted so there is actually nothin there.) If you see this post and you don't have a problem with this thread, you can ignore it.

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#1937305 - 08/04/12 01:02 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
Ube Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/24/12
Posts: 2
Loc: Hawaii
Kawai James, pardon my simple questions but I don't have a Kawai store nearby. Comparing the MP10, ES7 and MP6 -- do they all have arranger functions like the ES7, i.e., chord recognition for the rhythms under metronome, variations, etc.? Or is the arranger function stronger on the ES7?
I ask because the ES7 is a very attractive package yet the demo's I've heard show the superiority of the MP10's piano. And the MP6, of course, is somewhere in-between.

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#1938252 - 08/06/12 03:15 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Arranger is ES7 only; the others have some sort of drum patterns in the metronome section, but that's it. I'm curious if this post is going to be accessible - by the way the 13th page of this thread was meant as a joke I suppose, or do I really miss so many pages ...(that I can't see)

Important info on my earlier remarks about over the top acoustic effects and reverb ; according to Kawai the start-up presets of the prototype unit seem to have been altered and many effect settings we're set to the max. Factory presets should be a bit more conservative in that respect. Can't check it - due to a lack of factory ES7 - but it may explain (part of) my criticism .

I thought Kawai deserves that nuance to my comments. Hope it is indeed better with factory presets - I'm allergic to overdone effects - they should be reserved for fares and musicals :-)

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#1948158 - 08/23/12 10:51 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: gvfarns]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3411
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
processing the event stream correctly seems like a good thing, but even if you did get note on, note off, note on, note off...

I don't see how that would be possible. If you press a key, you get Note On. If you release the key above the "middle" sensor (i.e. not high enough to generate a Note Off), and then press down again, the hardware design generates another Note On. The hardware is not generating a Note Off between the two Note On events, and if the hardware doesn't generate it, the software can't receive it. So nothing on the receiving (software) side needs to be changed to recognize this, as the board is still sending out ordinary MIDI note data as it has existed for 30 years. Unless something is really screwy in the software, I can't see why this shouldn't work anywhere.

In fact, if you hook up a Casio PX-3 (triple sensor) to a Nord Stage 2 (no triple sensor), you can play the Nord piano sound from the Casio with the benefit of its third sensor. Kind of a cool side benefit if you were pairing the weighted Casio with the unweighted Nord, for example. (Though overall, I don't think the Casio action feels as good as Nord's own weighted actions.)

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
For those lamenting the lack of Kawai's top sounds in the MP6 or ES7 I understand your frustration.

However, you are assuming the MP10 is significantly better. Its on-paper specification would suggest so but I'm really not sure.

Personally, I found the MP10 notably better sounding than the MP6. The MP10 actually managed to cross my threshold of "favorite DP sounds" where the MP6 did not.

But I do understand that they were targeting a $1999 street price (matching the FP-7F perhaps?), so if the UPHI sound would have added $100, $200, whatever, they would have missed their target, even though many of us here might say "hey, we'd pay the extra for that, if we could." (Looked at a different way, the MP10 is $2500; an ES7 with UPHI would almost be an MP10 with speakers for $2000... that would be a great deal! How feasible that--or something close to that--might be probably depends on just how much of the price would be related to the different keybeds. I agree, it sure would have been nice to see.)

The other limitation is, again, we can choose between MIDI controller functions (MP6) or built in speakers (ES7). Same as the choice between the FP-7F and the RD700NX, or the FP-4F and the RD300NX, or the Yamaha P155 and the CP33, or the Casio PX3 and the PX330. I'm sure I'm not the only person who would find it useful to have MIDI controller functions and speakers in the same unit. The only model like that I can think of is the Yamaha CP300 at 70+ lbs.


Edited by anotherscott (08/30/12 08:56 AM)

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#1951304 - 08/30/12 02:00 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Stevesie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 45
New ES7 vid. Still near the top of my list, if my back recovers enough to lift it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81k7i_CNcQE

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#1953768 - 09/04/12 11:34 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Stevesie]
tonosity Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/04/12
Posts: 1
Loc: California
My local Kawai dealer (in central California) claims that they are now shipping ES7s. According to them, the optional stands are back ordered, but the keyboards are being delivered to customers who've pre-ordered.

In any case, if someone actually receives an ES7, please post you're first-hand evaluation of this new Kawai DP!

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#1962437 - 09/22/12 07:29 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
mvwrd Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/21/12
Posts: 2
Hi,

I picked up my ES7 yesterday. Would like to provide you with meaningful insights or some form of review but I'm really just starting out playing piano so that would be rather pointless.

I had some piano lessons for about a year and a half or so when I was around 6 years old but it never really caught on. Did play drums in high school for about 5 or 6 years after which other interests and study/work steered me away from musicmaking completely. Anyway, lately it's been nagging me and I figured I really want to learn to play the piano. Wheter or not i'll become any good at it haha..

Both my dad and brother play in a band (piano / guitar) and I kind of miss the joy of making music myself. So after reading numerous reviews and scouring lots of information from these boards (thanks!) I decided to buy this Kawai and give it a go.

So far I think it's a beautiful instrument and I'm sure it will hog plenty of my time for years to come smile

Back to practicing my F chord and "When the saints go marching in". laugh

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#1962446 - 09/22/12 08:06 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Congratulations, you're one of the first ES7 owners here on this forum (maybe the first?), so please give us all your thoughts on the new board.

Some guy in Germany had a casing resonance (natural frequency of the casing and material that was triggered when playing 'a' -s). But according to the technicians this was the only person who had this problem and exemplary. Perhaps you can verify that you don't have any case resonances when playing over the loudspeakers . I've got a es7 set in reservation , so a little self interest here ;-)

How do you like the keybed and were you able to compare it to other brands before buying the ES ? Especially compared to Casio Px series - which could be a near competitor in terms of feature set. The build quality of the ES and the speakers are of another class though.

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#1962662 - 09/22/12 04:21 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
mvwrd Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/21/12
Posts: 2
Thanks.

Since I am a beginner in the truest sense of the word I can't give you any worthwile in depth opinions on the key action or subtleties in the sound. I do find it a marvelous apparatus though. And If I close my eyes it feels like a proper piano as far as I can remember it (we had one in the living room when I grew up).

I just had a friend over for dinner who has played for a couple of years in his teens and still has an acoustic at home who was really enthousiastic about it.

As far as the resonance problem you mentioned.. I cannot reproduce. The only remark I have is that there is a small nick/dent in the volume knob/slider thing. It is tiny, does not really bother me but I will email the supplier if it is easily replaceable.

I haven't really compared it to other pianos before buying, I mostly bought it based on Specs/Pricerange/Reviews etc. Trying to filter the bullsh*t/bias from those as good as I can. I figured any decent piano would do for me while learning and if I have aquired a particular taste in the future I can always change/upgrade then.

Right now I am not worrying too much about all that and more about lesson three of my course haha. When the saints go marching in.. Whoohaa.

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#1963570 - 09/24/12 08:05 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Got a set on order. No idea when it will arrive yet. Hope it will come in one piece and without flaws, cause my MP6 orders went back 4 times, before getting the 5th , which was perfect.

And now that I finely decided, Kawai bring out an MP7 with RH II keybed tomorrow ( my perfect board) ;-) If so, I don't want to know !


Hope we can exchange some experiences with the ES7 soon. Do you have the rest of the Kawai set as well (standard and three pedal unit ) ?

J

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#1963773 - 09/24/12 03:48 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Montano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 25
JFP, may I ask you what made you decide for the ES7 instead of the CN34, or waiting for the much lower priced PX350? Would be interesting to know which comparisons you made.

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#1963782 - 09/24/12 04:10 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Cn34: not available yet. And not portable; I decided I wanted to have the option to be able to move around with the DP , although it won't happen I first instance. Smaller footprint (our living space is limited ); nicer finishing paint (sort of glossy), amp designer, more powerful speaker system (than Casio, not than cn34). The ES looks more classy to me in a living room than the Casio as well. For a studio I wouldn't bother.

Casio : not available yet in the shops for me to test. I'm tired of waiting for something , there's always something new coming , can't wait forever for every next product. Also knowing the RH keybed, which I like a lot and knowing the px3 keybed, which is just not my cup of tea, I doubted that the px350 would be superior in touch to the Kawai. I still worry that I should have tried the Casio first and save me half the money, but since the mp6 was sold and I could make a good deal on the es7 , I just went ahead. I don't think it will disappoint me and perhaps it may be better not to think about the money gap compared to the px350 to much, which is huge !

When the px is out, I think the FP 's of Roland and the ES face some tough competition. But I'm also sure I will enjoy the new RH II a lot. Cn34 was a consideration , but I skipped it for the above reasons. Very nice instrument though for the money and much more classy in design than e.g.the px850 and alike, which I find very industrial and quite ugly; really function first / form later.

Lets see what user reports we'll get later on on the px 350; for now the information is very very limited ( also a reason why I couldn't make a good judgement on the Casio; tech specs alone and demos from Casio or sellers don't tell me enough).

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#1963798 - 09/24/12 04:39 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Montano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 25
JFP, thanks for the information. The ES7 is a vey nice DP. However, would miss a nice key cover (to avoid gathering dust between the keys) when placed in the living room.

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#1963807 - 09/24/12 05:04 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9551
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Montano, I believe the ES7 includes a dust cover.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1963971 - 09/24/12 10:34 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Montano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 25
James,the user's manual doesn't mention it. Would have to use some aftermarket vinyl cover, which is not very furniturelike in a living room. Moreover, would have to remove the music rack/rest in order to throw the cover over it. Other suggestions will be welcome.

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#1963999 - 09/25/12 12:20 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9551
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Montano, my apologies, the ES7 does not include a dust cover.

I thought that a dust cover may have been included with models sold in Japan (I had seen pictures of an ES7 covered up with a Kawai branded cover), however this is not the case either.

The dust cover is available as an optional accessory in Japan, however.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1964050 - 09/25/12 03:24 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
I have a dust cover which my girlfriend made : it's elastic , so it's bends nicely over the piano and you can leave the music rest where it is. Worked for the MP; got another one for a 61 keyboard, for the TV set and other stuff that gathers dust. She's quite handy - perhaps look for a similar elastic cover , or a similar girlfriend who can make you one ;-)

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#1967312 - 10/01/12 01:28 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
pianomike Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 59
I just purchased a Es7 from Taylor Music in West Chester Pa. this week end. Ordered it last week and took a week to get here from California. First impressions , this is a quality piano , the grand piano sound is full,rich and clear. The action is quick and responsive and easy to do lead riffs on.The keys have a great feel and make it easy to play precisely without fatiguing your fingers. The piano sound is a little bright for me but it has an eq section to take some of the highs out and boost the bass section.Personnaly I think it would be a good piano for going out and playing solo,and because of the brightness also cut through in a band setting.I really like this piano,Mike.

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#1967500 - 10/01/12 07:54 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
btcomm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 278
Loc: California
Just curious what you paid for the ES7?

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#1967646 - 10/02/12 05:21 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: btcomm]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Got my ES7 with stand and pedal unit. I assume first batch. Not much time to spend with it yet but my first thoughts:

Pro:
1) very nice cabinet. Especially with stand and pedals. Well designed and made. Edit : on second thought - yes - very nice indeed ;-)
2) nice basic sounds , effects have indeed improved. The basic sound set Kawai has chosen is exactly what I need. Just miss my Jazz Grand ;-(
3) nice EP2 sound. Perhaps it's the same as on my MP6, but it simply sounds much better.
4) Repetition very much improved over the RH keybed ; the response is very fast !
5) Speakers with more than enough power, although they look rather small. Sound quite good.

Cons:
1) Key travel - this is less compared to my RH on the MP6. I really don't like it that it bottoms earlier. I don't understand how adding a third sensor has made is necessary to limit the key travel. Perhaps its not even that much of a difference, but it certainly feels that way to me.
2) General keybed build quality; there is more spacing between the keys and they are also unequaly spaced among different key ranges. My MP6 had the most tight keybed in that respect; it looked absolutely perfect. Not a big deal, just what I noticed.
3) Key noise; the RHII on the ES7 bottoms out harder, making more thumb noise. This was a big pro on the MP6 - the most quiet keybed I knew so far. Now the advantage over Roland is gone in that respect. I think it's the combination of the keybed and the casing of the ES7 , that simply makes more noise. Would be interesting to know if the other Kawais with RHII make the same sound. No deal breaker, just a detail.
4) Speakers are powerful , but with a some low-mid boost. Even with EQ on mid-cut or user adjusted EQ there is some emphasize on the mid-low frequencies. Hard to expect perfect sound from BI speakers. Perhaps the fact that they are oval is a reason for some unwanted frequency intermodulations / resonances. In general they are not bad.

In short;
the speed of the keybed is impressive and light, but somehow I can't connect with the keys as much as before, because of the (perceived?) shorter key travel. The thumb noise and spacing is more of a cosmetic / audible annoyance that I can live with. Could be that one unit is a bit noisier (like mine) than others.

Have to play with the ES7 a bit more; hope the keybed grows on me. It's a very nice instrument in general and it also looks good !!


Edited by JFP (10/04/12 04:34 PM)

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#1967650 - 10/02/12 05:41 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9551
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Interesting, thanks for posting your initial thoughts.

I'm not aware of any structural or material changes to the RHII action other than the additional sensor. Nor should the key dip or action noise be any different. However I will try to check these points tomorrow.

How does the keyboard compare with the ES7 prototype you played a few weeks ago?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1967671 - 10/02/12 08:05 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3411
Originally Posted By: JFP
I don't understand how adding a third sensor has made is necessary to limit the key travel so much.

If there was a change in key travel, I don't see any reason to assume that it's because of adding the third sensor, it could be a decision made for other reasons.

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#1967776 - 10/02/12 01:48 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: anotherscott]
pianomike Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 59
Regarding the Kawai action and the roland action ,I have the gx and it bottoms out hard but the Kawai es7 is deffinetly softer at the bottom than the roland.The action compared to my roland is easier to play and faster.

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#1967805 - 10/02/12 03:26 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Maybe it's my unit. It doesn't bother me too much. Just noisier than what I was used to. And a perceived shorter key travel, whether that is technically true or not. On the MP6 the standard touch curve was just fine for the RH. Now I have to fiddle around with custom curves to get the same level of response back, whenever I find the time. For now I just set it to "heavy" , which works a bit better to me than 'normal'.

Overall nice instrument. I'll write a full review when I have more time and know the ES a bit better.

In short I found the MP6 right on spot for my hands from the first moment and only gradually found out that the keybed was a bit slow for fast repetitions. Other than that I felt at home right away with the touch . With the ES7 I have to work more to get to like the keybed overall, it's definitely faster and perhaps better and also lighter and much easier to play, but somehow I have problems to "connect" with the touch. Maybe my hands and mind are made for a keybed that is more on the heavy side, but nevertheless I had the feeling that I had more delicate dynamic control over the RH. The verb I put on that for now is deeper key travel => bit more control over dynamic range. Trade in in speed and easiness for more delicate dynamic control.

It's personal and I may change my opinion 180 degrees when I have have spend more time on the ES. It's first impressions after all ;-)

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