Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#1934455 - 07/29/12 11:52 PM Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5607
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
This hurts...

_________________________
- Frank B.
Founder / Host
www.PianoWorld.com
www.PianoSupplies.com
Find Us On:
Facebook.com/PianoWorldDotCom
Twitter.com/PianoWorld
www.youtube.com/PianoWorldDotCom
Skype: PianoWorldDotCom
Estonia L-190, Yamaha P-80, Hammond XK-3, Hammond A-100, Estey 1895 Pump Organ, Harpsichord (kit), Clavichord (kit)
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
Coming to Maine? We're in Parsonsfield (southwest) let's get together!


Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

 

#1934465 - 07/30/12 12:07 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Michael Taylor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 364
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Wow.....that's really sad. But what are the alternatives when they have reached the end of life?
_________________________
Piano obsession started November 2010.
Ragtime Butcher
Kayserburg U123
http://www.youtube.com/user/michaelt3032


Top
#1934469 - 07/30/12 12:11 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6112
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
It really hurts... I couldn't even watch the video clip to the end because I was so upset for those poor pianos... frown
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#1934475 - 07/30/12 12:21 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
BoseEric Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 731
Loc: Fairfield County, CT
This video makes me happy!

Pianos are manufactured items with a definite life-span, after which they should be thrown out and, hopefully, replaced. Yes we get our emotions all caught up but lets face it, many of the pianos made over the last 100 years were never intended to last more than 30 years. Glue joints break, strings rust, hammer felt comes unglued, the simply fall apart!

People don't throw out pianos enough! They pass them on, Craigs list, donations and this passing on of trash hurts our industry in 2 particular ways:

1. people who play on these expired instruments don't get the full experience and satisfaction of playing the piano...keys don't work, it can't be tuned, the voicing is horrible. Kids get discouraged playing on pieces of junk and never continue, reinforcing the parents defective thought process "we'll get something cheap and if they stick with it, we'll get something better". Well, guess what, Johnny didn't stick with it because he got no satisfaction out of it.

2. the industry manufacturers and dealers suffer because people don't buy new(er)pianos. A healthy piano industry REQUIRES pianos be replaced.
_________________________
RPT. In the business: Feurich pianos, Neupert harpsichords, Hidrau benches, piano technician

Top
#1934487 - 07/30/12 12:36 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5607
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
I hate to admit it, but BoseEric is spot on.

I can't tell you how many times I've been asked to tune pianos that are way past their prime.
Granted some top end pianos may be worth rebuilding/restoring, but the bulk of old pianos (particularly low end instruments) are well past their prime and should be replaced.

Keep in mind that beginners need all the help they can get from their instrument, and that it is disheartening to attempt to play a sub-par instrument.

By the same token, it's still sad to see an old piano relegated to the trash heap.
You'd like to think there is some way to recycle the parts at least (ivory keys for scrimshaw anyone?).
_________________________
- Frank B.
Founder / Host
www.PianoWorld.com
www.PianoSupplies.com
Find Us On:
Facebook.com/PianoWorldDotCom
Twitter.com/PianoWorld
www.youtube.com/PianoWorldDotCom
Skype: PianoWorldDotCom
Estonia L-190, Yamaha P-80, Hammond XK-3, Hammond A-100, Estey 1895 Pump Organ, Harpsichord (kit), Clavichord (kit)
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
Coming to Maine? We're in Parsonsfield (southwest) let's get together!


Top
#1934501 - 07/30/12 01:38 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
James Scott Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I agree with you from a business standpoint. There has to be a healthy market for new or used good pianos in order for the industry to survive. However, the supposition about beginners starting out on junk and giving up because of it is I think only half true. If someone loves it they'll do their best with only having air to practice on until they can afford junk, while a disinterested kid who starts on a new Fazioli will still be disinterested no matter the quality or price of the new instrument.

But the cold, hard facts are these: Most people will never ever in a million years be able to buy a "new" piano, so junk is all they'll ever be able to get (if they could even afford that). So better to have something that undoubtedly will never meet the standards of some of the more affluent on this forum (you know who you are) than to have nothing at all, I say. For most of us, it will always be a choice of getting back and forth to work, getting our kids to school, and still being able to afford a crust of stale bread, or getting a piano. Obviously, the former will always win out over the latter. So the parents of a kid who really wants to learn would greatly appreciate the opportunity to acquire one, even if it is "junk". I know that for a fact because it's what happened with me when I was young. My mom couldn't even afford the stale bread but she managed to scrape a few rocks together and get me an old broken down Balwin. I loved that piano and was very sorry to part with it when I grew up and left for college. I never have gotten really good at playing but I still love it none-the-less.

Agreeably, some of these older instruments will never play a note again, but there are some that could be of great use, at least for a while anyway. Why just toss them out indiscriminantly? And there's lots of amatuer techs who could use them as practice. If you mess up something, sand too much through a veneer, or get bubbles or pits in your lacquer, no biggie, it's only practice. Tear them apart to see how the soundboard fits on the rasten, or work on getting a good downbearing or proper plate height, or referbishing a bridge. Try your hand at reguilding a plate, even if it's cracked. It's only practice. They've got to be good for something. If nothing else, you can always get something for the recycle value of the copper and steel wires.

Anyway, this is my humble but most accurate opinion.

Top
#1934505 - 07/30/12 02:12 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: James Scott]
BoseEric Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 731
Loc: Fairfield County, CT
Originally Posted By: James Scott


But the cold, hard facts are these: Most people will never ever in a million years be able to buy a "new" piano,


I'm not sure who you mean by "most people" but a high quality vertical piano can be bought new for $5000 and a high quality grand new for $15,000 (some will argue less and may on occasion be true). The piano industry is still a consumer business, selling to ordinary working people who value the things a piano represents.
_________________________
RPT. In the business: Feurich pianos, Neupert harpsichords, Hidrau benches, piano technician

Top
#1934508 - 07/30/12 02:25 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: BoseEric]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6112
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Not in Australia I think. Sheet music is also much more expensive here. frown
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#1934518 - 07/30/12 03:28 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: James Scott]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3348
Originally Posted By: James Scott
However, the supposition about beginners starting out on junk and giving up because of it is I think only half true. If someone loves it they'll do their best with only having air to practice on until they can afford junk, while a disinterested kid who starts on a new Fazioli will still be disinterested no matter the quality or price of the new instrument.


There are exceptions to everything, but speaking as someone who's been there, I can say that, even as a kid, I hated playing on crap.

Originally Posted By: James Scott
But the cold, hard facts are these: Most people will never ever in a million years be able to buy a "new" piano, so junk is all they'll ever be able to get (if they could even afford that).


It's all about priorities. You'd be surprised at the number of parents who won't bat an eye at spending 30-50k on a brand new car, or 3k on a nice flat screen TV, or the thousands it takes to get kids into a sports program, but balk at the mere sight of a 5k price tag on a piano.

That said, there's a world of difference between a used piano and a junk piano. There's absolutely nothing inherently wrong with used pianos, and I've never heard of any competent used piano being sent to the dump.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

Top
#1934579 - 07/30/12 07:18 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Rusty Fortysome Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/11
Posts: 194
Loc: USA
In the late 70s/early 80s, my father bought, restored, sold used uprights. We had a garage filled with them! At peak, there was a rotation of maybe 25 uprights. I used to help him do the heavy work, then he would work on the innards and keys, and turn a meager profit. We lived in the Philly area, and there were always plenty of uprights for sale for the price of taking them away! Others were maybe $25 or $50.

We'd check them out all the time, and you'd have been shocked how many homes used to have a full acoustic lingering in a corner or back room. You'd be amazed how poorly so many were kept. Inside were always dead rodents and a variety of household items. In time, most people would place a useless piano on a porch to rot in the weather.

There were millions on millions of pianos made in the late 1800s and early 1900s and they almost all went somewhere: the dump. So few people play piano these days, compared to 100 years ago. This mover saw 300 or 400 pianos dumped across 25 years or so... I saw over 100 trashed within about 5 years back around 1980. Some statistic wonks try to estimate the amount of piano players in today's world, but I believe the figure is far too high compared to what I see; otherwise these old acoustics would never hit the rubbish pile.
_________________________
Currently working on/memorizing...
"It's You" from Robotech
"He's A Pirate"
"Crazy Bone Rag"
"Claire DeLune (finally)"

Top
#1934581 - 07/30/12 07:30 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8569
Loc: Georgia, USA
I wonder if they allow scavengers to pick up the broken pieces… one person’s trash is another person’s treasure? grin

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
#1934611 - 07/30/12 09:24 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Thracozaag Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 1980
Loc: Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: Piano World

By the same token, it's still sad to see an old piano relegated to the trash heap.
You'd like to think there is some way to recycle the parts at least (ivory keys for scrimshaw anyone?).


That was my 2nd reaction (after being somewhat horrified initially)--all that wasted ivory!
_________________________
"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

http://www.youtube.com/kojiattwood
https://www.giftedmusicschool.org/

Top
#1934621 - 07/30/12 09:52 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
JazzPianoOnline Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 93
Loc: raleigh, nc
all of those grands would make beautiful tables. i would buy one.
_________________________
br
bill@jazzpianoonline.com
www.JazzPianoOnline.com

Top
#1934628 - 07/30/12 10:04 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Thrill Science Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 521
Loc: California
The only sad thing is that there aren't enough cabinetmakers and craftsmen left in the United States who can do something with the cabinet parts, if there's enough usable wood in large enough pieces on them.

Pianos wear out and die. They really do. The NY Times didn't devote enough ink to explaining that. So many people have this crazy belief that there's some school, church, or old-age home that should be grateful to take their old piano-shaped garbage. Or that you'd be doing a favor to some kid by introducing him to piano. (Do you know what I tell people who want to start their kid learning music, and they're not willing or able to buy a proper piano? I tell them to consider classical guitar lessons!)

I'm always apprehensive if I'm visiting someone's house and there's a piano in the living room. Invariably they ask if I'd play something, and I hate to say no. Nobody wants to hear that their beloved "baby grand" is unplayably bad.

Read the article in the Times that accompanies the video.


Edited by Thrill Science (07/30/12 10:07 AM)
_________________________
Robert Swirsky
Thrill Science, Inc.

Top
#1934630 - 07/30/12 10:12 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Josiah Burke Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/26/12
Posts: 1
Loc: Castlebar, Ireland
This is horrible, no matter how bad pianos are, I'm sure 60% of these models could have been loved by someone else...I was cringing at every crash..

Top
#1934632 - 07/30/12 10:16 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Josiah Burke]
Rusty Fortysome Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/11
Posts: 194
Loc: USA
My first thought was "I'D TAKE THAT FOR FREE!... I need firewood."

The sadness should never come as trash hits the can, rather at the people allowing their magnificent pianos to deteriorate that far. Sure, all pianos degrade in time, but you'd be surprised how easy and "inexpensive" it is to maintain a piano across 100 years... when compared to the money spent to buy a new one.

That probably applies more to grands. The price of a new Kawai upright, for example, is rather inexpensive. The benefit of getting a $6000 Kawai upright outstrips the cost of restoring an old vertical piano with a crud finish.
_________________________
Currently working on/memorizing...
"It's You" from Robotech
"He's A Pirate"
"Crazy Bone Rag"
"Claire DeLune (finally)"

Top
#1934637 - 07/30/12 10:24 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2385
Loc: UK
They seem to have had the harp removed, maybe for recycling of the metal?

Can't we recycle wood into paper, or construction products ( chipboard)? Maybe it's not cost effective.

At least they last longer than PC's and mobile phones.

Top
#1934638 - 07/30/12 10:30 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Ed Foote Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1183
Loc: Tennessee
Greetings,
Some considerations. There is little wood to be had in an older piano. Manufacturers used nothing of a higher grade than necessary, and there is a bunch of little pieces all glued up to make most of these pianos. Square grands make nice tables, if you cut them down, and upright panels can be decorative, but there isn't much else to save. An upright piano takes approx. 22 minutes to burn completely down. There is approx. 1 coffee can full of screws in an old upright. (and they are great quality, use a magnet through the ashes). plates do not explode as the piano burns, strings do not pop. They simply go out with a cloud of pollution and smoke.

The only things sadder than seeing pianos trashed are the faces on the family that has just spent their entire piano budget on a piano that cannot be tuned. It is a sad thing, and I have had to deliver this news. These unusable pianos, and in the hands of a con-artist, are simply a means to steal from the uneducated. Burn them before they burn others!
Regards,

Top
#1934645 - 07/30/12 10:47 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: spanishbuddha]
Rusty Fortysome Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/11
Posts: 194
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha

Can't we recycle wood into paper, or construction products ( chipboard)? Maybe it's not cost effective.


You can easily recycle wood... let it fade into the ground and grow a new tree on top of it.
_________________________
Currently working on/memorizing...
"It's You" from Robotech
"He's A Pirate"
"Crazy Bone Rag"
"Claire DeLune (finally)"

Top
#1934655 - 07/30/12 11:14 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4425
Loc: San Jose, CA
Death comes to instruments as surely as it does to people, later if not sooner. And who are we to take the bread out of the mouths of the landfill operators? Though it does seem to me that if cans, weighing a fraction of an ounce, are worth recycling, a piano's iron plate ought to offer some value, if only to spare the earth from the destruction of mining and smelting new metal.

I suppose, in the aggregate, discarded beverage cans outweigh piano plates by many thousands of times and so that is where the money is.

For some reason I'm reminded of zoos which serve as old age homes for retired circus animals.
_________________________
Clef


Top
#1934658 - 07/30/12 11:22 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2338
Loc: SoCal
Quote:
While noting that piano disposals can be painful, Mr. Goodwin said: “To be honest with you, the guys enjoy it. They try so hard all day not to scratch anything. And all of a sudden they get to throw it off the back of a truck.”
_________________________
Gary

Top
#1934677 - 07/30/12 11:51 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Josiah Burke]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2726
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: Josiah Burke
This is horrible, no matter how bad pianos are, I'm sure 60% of these models could have been loved by someone else...I was cringing at every crash..
Unlike most instruments, a piano is a complex machine. When the machine breaks, economics takes over. Only personal sentiment can outweigh economics. I welcome more creative solutions, but I'm afraid that the empathy is poorly placed.

We don't get sentimental about 70 year old washing machines just because grandma washed her clothes in them. And 1 out of 10,000,000 would be even marginally collectible to someone, somewhere. It's not a museum item. Once it does a poor job of cleaning our clothes, we don't haul it down to the neighbors and say, "I'm sure someone could easily fix it up."

The Salvation Army does not accept pianos. Even churches are learning to be selective. When few if any charities will accept them as donations, the writing is clearly on the wall.

The NY Times picked some low-hanging fruit for an emotional response from the uninitiated. I don't expect sympathy for the industry, though it would be nice. These decrepit pianos are a burden for the owners and damaging to the next generation of pianists, plain and simple.

I admit that we don't do enough to advocate our position in our business because we take heat for it. If a piano will hold it's tune, but is otherwise not something we sell, we arrange donation. When they don't do that, they often make their way to the dump or to somebody's art project...to be thrown away later.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bsendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

Top
#1934682 - 07/30/12 11:59 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
James,

I disagree with what you say about "most people won't be able to afford a new piano in a million years." While yes, some can't, many others can if they so choose to do so. it's a matter of perspective and desire.

Many of these same supposed poor folks, can afford cases and cases of beer, pop, junk food, cigarettes, literally hundreds and thousands of dollars worth of garbage that they ingest into their bodies and whatever else their little hearts desire. If they, or anyone else really wants to buy a decent piano, they can and will save for it. It's a matter of priority in that case. The same could be said in many cases about people not being able to afford to repair their pianos. Priority.

And yes, a good instrument will indeed be more helpful than trying to read a book for example with scribbling all over the inside on the writing, or with pages missing which will cause the reader to toss the book for a lack of desire to even attempt to read it. A piano is no different. Want them to learn? Give them a good book to read or a good piano to learn on. Or, at the very least, something half way decent, not a bunch of trash.

Both dealerships in Grand Rapids told me that 50 % and more, of their sales are now currently digitals. It is not just that people are only interested in buying digitals. It is partially due too, that many dealers are pushing the sale of digitals over acoustic pianos.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1934689 - 07/30/12 12:15 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: PianoWorksATL]
Rusty Fortysome Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/11
Posts: 194
Loc: USA
I am curious about the modern grands and how they will age. As the sales have faded, the manufacture of the better grands has improved. We could see the latest generation of professional-grade grands lasting a lot longer than those made in the past. These will also last longer due to innovations like damp-chasers and serious enthusiasts or professionals housing the pianos, while most of those being destroyed were just let go to rot within and outside of houses over the last century.

Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL

The NY Times picked some low-hanging fruit for an emotional response from the uninitiated. ... These decrepit pianos are a burden for the owners and damaging to the next generation of pianists, plain and simple.


NYT is pure knee-jerk territory; your post was very thoughtful. I, for example, never took into account how an old piano with lousy action and sound can turn off young ones approaching the art. Pity that NYT didn't take on a dialectic approach or even holistic examination of the event.
_________________________
Currently working on/memorizing...
"It's You" from Robotech
"He's A Pirate"
"Crazy Bone Rag"
"Claire DeLune (finally)"

Top
#1934698 - 07/30/12 12:33 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Rusty Fortysome]
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5607
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
Originally Posted By: Rusty Fortysome



NYT is pure knee-jerk territory; your post was very thoughtful. I, for example, never took into account how an old piano with lousy action and sound can turn off young ones approaching the art. Pity that NYT didn't take on a dialectic approach or even holistic examination of the event.


I think they were going for the Wow factor.

As a piano tuner and player I'm well aware of the fact old pianos can become beyond worth repairing. And I've certainly played my share of cringe worthy pianos ( see pictures of our recent East Coast Piano & Lighthouse Adventure ).

Still, it's hard to watch pianos being dumped like this.
_________________________
- Frank B.
Founder / Host
www.PianoWorld.com
www.PianoSupplies.com
Find Us On:
Facebook.com/PianoWorldDotCom
Twitter.com/PianoWorld
www.youtube.com/PianoWorldDotCom
Skype: PianoWorldDotCom
Estonia L-190, Yamaha P-80, Hammond XK-3, Hammond A-100, Estey 1895 Pump Organ, Harpsichord (kit), Clavichord (kit)
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
Coming to Maine? We're in Parsonsfield (southwest) let's get together!


Top
#1934711 - 07/30/12 01:03 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Amazing - Minnesota Public Radio has a morning talk show and the NYT article and video was discussed just moments ago!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#1934716 - 07/30/12 01:10 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
SirHuddlestonFudd Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/12
Posts: 96
Loc: Cambridge, MA
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
It is not just that people are only interested in buying digitals. It is partially due too, that many dealers are pushing the sale of digitals over acoustic pianos.


No. It's that a person can buy a really good digital piano ($1500-2000) for less than 1/3 the cost of the cheapest upright ($5-6K). Get over yourselves. If you want to have a luxury business, go ahead and have one. But stop preaching for the poor to, if I heard you correctly, stop eating and buy a piano. Do you know how long it takes a person making $20 per hour to save for a piano, even the most basic? A very long time.

Top
#1934723 - 07/30/12 01:18 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I encounter these types of situations nearly every week. I'm talking from experience here. People that own Bose Acoustic Wave Machines. Large screened televisions but the cheapest junk for their kids to learn to practice on.

I know exactly how long it takes to save to buy something nice. I've done it time and time and time again... It can be done if the desire is there.

If they look around, they can find a decent "real piano" to learn on for a relatively good price of much less than what you think. I've found many a piano for people like this over the years.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1934730 - 07/30/12 01:28 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: SirHuddlestonFudd]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2760
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Originally Posted By: SirHuddlestonFudd
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
It is not just that people are only interested in buying digitals. It is partially due too, that many dealers are pushing the sale of digitals over acoustic pianos.


No. It's that a person can buy a really good digital piano ($1500-2000) for less than 1/3 the cost of the cheapest upright ($5-6K). Get over yourselves. If you want to have a luxury business, go ahead and have one. But stop preaching for the poor to, if I heard you correctly, stop eating and buy a piano. Do you know how long it takes a person making $20 per hour to save for a piano, even the most basic? A very long time.

I was going to respond that it's an economic choice driven by priorities, something we all do. A digital piano is not a terrible thing to start on if it at least has weighted keys. Of course I agree that for someone to reach a high level of achievement (as a pianist) an acoustic piano is necessary, but for just starting out a good digital is fine.

Overall I found this discussion very thoughtful. Certainly the New York Times was going for WOW factor. They won't sell papers without it. Newspapers have had their challenges and this is just another aspect of the commercialization (read privatization) of American society that so many think they want. Maybe this is how businesses are more efficient than government because they're always going for the sale. IMO if it causes a discussion on public radio or any other public forum that that's a good thing for the arts and piano playing in particular.

Top
#1934731 - 07/30/12 01:28 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
I've seen many pianos thrown away that could be used with a days technical work.
I also have thrown away many that were far past their expiration date.
I have also restored some that were beyond their expiration date that would blow away most of the new uprights today in appearance, performance and tone.

There is no shortage of good old uprights and one day those that have them restored
properly will have something special.
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


Top
#1934799 - 07/30/12 03:57 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2389
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak
I've seen many pianos thrown away that could be used with a days technical work.
I also have thrown away many that were far past their expiration date.
I have also restored some that were beyond their expiration date that would blow away most of the new uprights today in appearance, performance and tone.

There is no shortage of good old uprights and one day those that have them restored
properly will have something special.



This is a man who knows. ^^^
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

Top
#1934824 - 07/30/12 04:40 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: BoseEric]
Annitenth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 466
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: BoseEric
...Kids get discouraged playing on pieces of junk and never continue, reinforcing the parents defective thought process "we'll get something cheap and if they stick with it, we'll get something better". Well, guess what, Johnny didn't stick with it because he got no satisfaction out of it.


I keep reading similar comments in this forum, not just this one from BoseEric, and I just can't agree. What are the average middle-class parents expecting from Johnny's piano lessons? A concert pianist? A piano teacher? Some kind of music professional? I think most want their kids to learn a little and are more than satisfied if the piano becomes in any sense a lifelong interest.

My parents certainly never regretted the cost of my piano lessons. I took only five years but have played all my life, for Sunday school classes, in high school productions, "graduating" to small churches as a temporary pianist/organist and entertaining at social gatherings. Just this week I'm scheduled to play for a small wedding. When I return from vacation, the first thing I do is hit the piano.

I got plenty of satisfaction from my mother's old Bradbury. And, although I love playing a really good instrument, I won't pass by ANY piano...or keyboard. (I've written here about the old upright with broken hammers that we duct-taped together for a great Christmas party.)

I was justing rereading the "My First Piano" posts from several weeks ago, and it's surprising how many of our members, many of whom are music professionals, started on pretty low quality pianos. That didn't keep them from continuing with their interest.

I think the important thing is to HAVE a piano, almost any [working] piano, for our kids, not to provide them with tier one instruments. IMHO, if it's going to take, it'll take regardless of the quality of the piano.
_________________________
Anne
Bsendorfer 225
Technics PCM Digital Ensemble PR307

Top
#1934834 - 07/30/12 05:05 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549


Most of those shown in the video did not look like "artful gems" cabinet wise(like some of Rod's restorations) but I do agree if the ivory was salvagable,and wasn't that's too bad..












Edited by Bob Newbie (07/30/12 05:06 PM)

Top
#1934858 - 07/30/12 05:47 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Gadget Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 7
Loc: Michigan
I would agree that some pianos are just beyond repair, and I understand that the current dealers do did their bread and butter, but anyone who has invested in a used vintage American made piano knows that they sing unlike any modern made mass produced imported pianos..Although economics is in the end the deciding factor, there has to be a happy medium somewhere where some of these high end American made classics can be salvaged and marketed..I suspect that with many American's losing their homes due to the crashing of the Housing market a great many pianos have just been removed by Bank's, Realtors who dispatch Piano moving outfits to remove a Piano from a home that was foreclosed on that, for what ever reason the owners have left their Pianos..I am sure that the Movers in the video don't just simply load up a 1905 6 " Chickering Grand or a 1890 Steinway upright and than toss into a scarp pile like a cardboard box, but the common vintage Pedestrian piano models that some of us own ourselves probably suffer that fate..My point is, these pianos are piling up faster than investors can get a lead on them, consequently they are disposed of, and it just seems to me that there should be some sort of net working regarding these homeless pianos so that there is at least some sort of good measure of these great icons of Americana around for posterity..There is of course up tick to the wholesale slaughter of these vintage pianos, those who now own one of these precious objects will see the value of their piano go up...

Top
#1934860 - 07/30/12 05:54 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Sauter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/12
Posts: 21
Loc: Mexico City
Most people will never ever in a million years be able to buy a "new" piano, so junk is all they'll ever be able to get

That´s a big true. I know about that.

Top
#1934870 - 07/30/12 06:25 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Gadget]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Gadget
I would agree that some pianos are just beyond repair, and I understand that the current dealers do did their bread and butter, but anyone who has invested in a used vintage American made piano knows that they sing unlike any modern made mass produced imported pianos..Although economics is in the end the deciding factor, there has to be a happy medium somewhere where some of these high end American made classics can be salvaged and marketed..I suspect that with many American's losing their homes due to the crashing of the Housing market a great many pianos have just been removed by Bank's, Realtors who dispatch Piano moving outfits to remove a Piano from a home that was foreclosed on that, for what ever reason the owners have left their Pianos..I am sure that the Movers in the video don't just simply load up a 1905 6 " Chickering Grand or a 1890 Steinway upright and than toss into a scarp pile like a cardboard box, but the common vintage Pedestrian piano models that some of us own ourselves probably suffer that fate..My point is, these pianos are piling up faster than investors can get a lead on them, consequently they are disposed of, and it just seems to me that there should be some sort of net working regarding these homeless pianos so that there is at least some sort of good measure of these great icons of Americana around for posterity..There is of course up tick to the wholesale slaughter of these vintage pianos, those who now own one of these precious objects will see the value of their piano go up...



And vintage Canadian instruments.
Well at least 10 companies come to mind that were makers of outstanding pianos.
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


Top
#1934871 - 07/30/12 06:28 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Gadget]
Ed Foote Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1183
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Gadget
I .My point is, these pianos are piling up faster than investors can get a lead on them, consequently they are disposed of, and it just seems to me that there should be some sort of net working regarding these homeless pianos so that there is at least some sort of good measure of these great icons of Americana around for posterity..There is of course up tick to the wholesale slaughter of these vintage pianos, those who now own one of these precious objects will see the value of their piano go up...


Greetings,
I don't think the problem is that "investors" can't find the old uprights to invest in. Anyone that wants to invest in old uprights and smaller brand grands has unlimited choices. I see these at every garage and estate sale I go to.

The problem is that there are few credible technicians that can invest the time in them without having to take a loss on the sale. If less than a complete restoration is done, most of these pianos will have continuing problems in use, and it is hard to sell a restoration on an upright.

I have restored two Steinway uprights over the years. Both were sold to internationally known artists, and they love them. My time was worth $ 17 an hour on them. It is worth approx. 9 times as much when I restore a Steinway grand. My time on Chickering upright was worth $8 per hour, so I have little urge to purse that, again. All of these uprights were great pianos, but there is no market that makes it worthwhile.
Regards,

Top
#1934877 - 07/30/12 06:39 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Annitenth]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2726
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: Annitenth
I think the important thing is to HAVE a piano, almost any [working] piano, for our kids, not to provide them with tier one instruments. IMHO, if it's going to take, it'll take regardless of the quality of the piano.
I worry you've built your argument on some mistaken assumptions. What I run into on a weekly basis is parents who leave their children on a 61 key light-up keyboard for 4 years of lessons. I see others who spend $1000 to haul a worthless spinet halfway across the country. And I see devoted, passionate teachers thinking like devoted passionate pianists that will rub 2 sticks together to make fire rather than seeing the majority of average students who need more just to maintain focus. Our looking glass is colored by experiences

Learning to play on a bad piano is like trying to learn to type on an old wordprocessor with letters missing. Or like trying to play tennis with an old wooden racquet that is missing 4 strings.

A) These are skills that anyone can learn for a lifetime.
B) Someone who is destined to be the best will not be discouraged.
C) Someone who is going to be average or only develop it as a life skill will be discouraged

You end up looking at the old racquet and you quickly see that it isn't just missing 4 strings, but the others could really be changed out. And the grip is worn and frayed. And after all, it wasn't a top-of-the-line racquet even in its day...we go get a new one.

A piano suitable to learn on will hold a tuning, have consistent feel, have no missing parts. I've honestly never seen a piano like that disposed of, though I can certainly imagine it happens. If 90% of the lingering, ancient uprights, forgotten in basements or formal dining rooms, covered in dust and picture frames disappeared, no one would miss them. If 90% of all of the hoop grands, broken pneumatic player pianos and other novelties vanished, the world wouldn't lose one great pianist. If all spinets vanished, how many parents would reconsider what "good enough" actually costs. None of this applies to people who value better instruments or those who are sentimental but know that, unrestored, grandma's piano isn't an instrument.

I know you cannot buy your way into being a better musician just by buying a better instrument. You can easily short circuit an average player with a bad instrument just as easily as with discouraging words.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The problem is filming the destruction. No one wants to watch their burger being made either.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bsendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

Top
#1934899 - 07/30/12 07:11 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
thetandyman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 443
Loc: Indiana
Heck, they take old organs and dump them in the ocean to make man-made barrier reefs. I even saw a picture of a submerged Rolls Royce! But don't forget, our current administration will probably never have a program called "Cash for Clunker Pianos". If I could get $4500 for an old Story and Clark upright, I'd be calling the movers!
_________________________
Marriage is like a card game, you start with two hearts and a diamond, later you wish you had a club and a spade!
Yamaha G7 Yamaha CVP75 digital, Allen 3500 theater organ

Top
#1934916 - 07/30/12 07:39 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Ed Foote]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Ed Foote
Originally Posted By: Gadget
I .My point is, these pianos are piling up faster than investors can get a lead on them, consequently they are disposed of, and it just seems to me that there should be some sort of net working regarding these homeless pianos so that there is at least some sort of good measure of these great icons of Americana around for posterity..There is of course up tick to the wholesale slaughter of these vintage pianos, those who now own one of these precious objects will see the value of their piano go up...


Greetings,
I don't think the problem is that "investors" can't find the old uprights to invest in. Anyone that wants to invest in old uprights and smaller brand grands has unlimited choices. I see these at every garage and estate sale I go to.

The problem is that there are few credible technicians that can invest the time in them without having to take a loss on the sale. If less than a complete restoration is done, most of these pianos will have continuing problems in use, and it is hard to sell a restoration on an upright.

I have restored two Steinway uprights over the years. Both were sold to internationally known artists, and they love them. My time was worth $ 17 an hour on them. It is worth approx. 9 times as much when I restore a Steinway grand. My time on Chickering upright was worth $8 per hour, so I have little urge to purse that, again. All of these uprights were great pianos, but there is no market that makes it worthwhile.
Regards,


Investors is a stretch I rather invest in anything other than a piano.
I personally only restore uprights for owners or custom for someone that wants a vintage upright. Same for grands.
I charge the same for my time if its a Steinway Grand or a Heintzman upright.
I don't charge $153.00 an hour and I was unaware rebuilding in the U.S. was that lucrative.
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


Top
#1934926 - 07/30/12 07:54 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: PianoWorksATL]
Annitenth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 466
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
...Our looking glass is colored by experiences...


I certainly agree with you on this.
_________________________
Anne
Bsendorfer 225
Technics PCM Digital Ensemble PR307

Top
#1934948 - 07/30/12 08:41 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Colin Dunn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 488
Loc: Arvada, CO
What shocked me most in the video was seeing a large grand (the second one shoved off the back of the truck ... looked to be at least 6'6", maybe even 7') get sent to the crusher.

Surely the area has a rebuilder who would have taken that piano for free, fixed it up, and resold it? I don't think there are many irredeemably junky 6'6"+ grands.

As someone who's getting started collecting pianos - I've seen a lot of beat-up, unplayable junk. It's worse with uprights (which become junk after being treated as such for 20-30 years), but I've driven out to look at more than a few 4'7"-5' grands that were beat-up and barely playable. People who have kept their pianos in pristine condition can still sell them and fetch a decent price. Around Denver, playable small grands priced around $2K tend to disappear within a couple weeks. Full-size uprights that have been kept up sell in at least the upper three-figure range.

To wit: I went to an estate sale last Saturday hoping to snag a refurbished antique upright (56") being offered for $600. It was already sold by the time I got there. Somebody got a good deal, as it had been restrung within the last 5-10 years. I'd rather have that piano than the 42" plain box from China.

Sometimes, sellers of used pianos are delusional about asking price. In the last week, I saw an ad featuring pictures of a beat-up old upright player ... piano needed full refinish (and likely internal restoration), player out of order, asking price over $6,000. Knock TWO zeroes off that price and it STILL won't sell. I've had others call me back after a month and drop their price.

So if you love classic pianos - keep an eye on your local classified ads and scoop up any good specimens that come along. You'll likely be able to haggle on price. Keep them maintained, and they may be valuable someday. After all, even the harpsichord came back from the brink...
_________________________
Colin Dunn

Top
#1934989 - 07/30/12 09:52 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
thetandyman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 443
Loc: Indiana
This video reminded me of the films of decent cars being destroyed by the "Cash for Clunkers" program. I saw late model Jaguars, Suburbans, Cadillacs being run until their engines were frozen , never to run again. I was so mad at the time, that I wanted to take a Colt 45 and settle the score. Fortnately I was inert. But I know there is often a time that pianos have no redeeming qualities. This helps keep manufacturers in business producing new units.
_________________________
Marriage is like a card game, you start with two hearts and a diamond, later you wish you had a club and a spade!
Yamaha G7 Yamaha CVP75 digital, Allen 3500 theater organ

Top
#1935016 - 07/30/12 10:53 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Singing Shortstop Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 37
Loc: Texas
Two thoughts on the topic, and it all depends on whether one is a buyer or a seller.

As a longtime Minister of Music in a local church, I get asked about lessons and a piano for little Jimmy or Suzy all the time. I always encourage people to purchase a quality acoustic used piano if at all possible. Something like a used Yamaha or Kawai console. I even volunteer to go with them to look at pianos, play it for them, and offer an opinion. I've never had anyone take me up on that. But I never cease to be amazed at the folks who will look for the cheapest piece of plywood and plastic for their child to learn on. I mean, if a pro can't make a rewarding sound on it, why would we expect little Junior to stay with the lessons?

On the other hand, I never cease to be amazed at the people who want to unload their junk on the church or some other charitable organization, and want a big tax write-off. We don't accept giveaway pianos--they usually turn out to be 75 year old termite farms that I call OPI's--"Object Posing as an Instrument." They couldn't sell it on CraigsList or Ebay, so their last ditch effort is to give it to the church. Can I be real honest here? If you want to give to God, how about giving your best instead of your left-overs that no one else wants?

OK, end of sermon. Pass the offering plate.
_________________________
Hugh Poland
1924 Knabe 6'4" Grand

Top
#1935044 - 07/30/12 11:49 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4425
Loc: San Jose, CA
"... If all spinets vanished, how many parents would reconsider what "good enough" actually costs..."

I am so on board with that sentiment!

I believe the minister of music is quite correct in his experience that many people wish to unload worthless termite colonies on the church which should go to the recycler (does that hurt a little less than saying "to the dump"?) for a large write-off. Their motive is venial from first to last. These 'gifts' received by unwary ministers populate many choir rooms, as a second-string instrument.

But to be fair, I have also known a number of very fine pianos which were donated to a church, out of love and a wish to leave a legacy of value. Back in the day, a lot of music education took place in churches, and it may still. I heard (and sang) my first Bach and Chopin, my first Vaughn Williams, my first Beethoven, Handel, Arthur Sullivan, Thomas Tallis, Mendelssohn, Martin Shaw, Robert Schumann, Mozart, Purcel, Gottschalk, Gounoud, and Roberta Flack.

I started to be able to play more than "Chopsticks" on the piano (remember that little horror?) My piano teacher was the choir's accompanist.

{I admit I had the help of a hymnbook's index of authors when compiling that list.) But when I heard Roberta Flack and Donny Hathaway sing, "Come, Ye Disconsolate," it was right there in that same hymnbook.

Sure, we love pianos and hate to see them formally resign their commission on this planet--- at least if it involves garbage trucks. But like the last hymn says:

"Love has no heartache
That heaven cannot heal."

Not even the heartache of watching that piano crusher video... which is just a step on the way to a new beginning.

Sorry it sounds so flat on the page--- with the music, it knocks the ball out of the park


Edited by Jeff Clef (07/30/12 11:52 PM)
_________________________
Clef


Top
#1935055 - 07/31/12 12:05 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: BoseEric]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5321
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: BoseEric
Originally Posted By: James Scott


But the cold, hard facts are these: Most people will never ever in a million years be able to buy a "new" piano,


I'm not sure who you mean by "most people" but a high quality vertical piano can be bought new for $5000 and a high quality grand new for $15,000 (some will argue less and may on occasion be true). The piano industry is still a consumer business, selling to ordinary working people who value the things a piano represents.

I really don't want to beat a dead horse, because I think I whipped it pretty bad on another thread, but how can you expect people to pay upwards of 36% of their salary towards a new grand piano, when their rent/mortgage doesn't even cost that much?

Uprights are a decent option, but even then, a ton got trashed in that video that could have gone to families who couldn't afford a piano otherwise.

When I first started, it was on a player piano from 1860. Would I have liked a new Steinway? Absolutely. Could we afford it? Absolutely not.

So, I think a little perspective is in order. smile
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#1935082 - 07/31/12 01:20 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Derulux]
Colin Dunn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 488
Loc: Arvada, CO
Agreed. While the ultra-expensive Steinway, Bosendorfer, etc. instruments are magnificent, the market for $100K+ pianos is very small. That price is out of reach of all but the most affluent or dedicated hobbyists. Most professional pianists don't have a $100K+ piano at home; I've had piano teachers who taught on a $2K digital keyboard.

As for the pianos in the video - it's hard to tell what the actual condition is of the instruments being destroyed. The video won't tell you if the pin block is shot or the plate is cracked. (Those can be repaired, but if you have a $10K+ budget to restore an old piano, why not find a good used grand?)

Untunable/unplayable pianos are useless, except to someone who is prepared to fund a complete restoration (not a family who would otherwise do without). Those families would be better served with a digital, or waiting until a usable upright hits their local market.

The crux of the problem: Pianos are cheaper to buy (existing) than to build. Current labor costs are such that pianos are prohibitively expensive for many people. The trick to getting a piano on a budget is to know which instruments require major repairs vs. which ones can be fixed up for a song.
_________________________
Colin Dunn

Top
#1935090 - 07/31/12 02:05 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
James Scott Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Jerry,

I appreciate your response and I totally agree with you and others who brought it up. It's a matter of priorities and I think that with some people if they set their sites on achieving it they may be able to get it. Although in my case I know that I've been trying all of my adult life and every time that I think that I can get three dollars to scrape together something goes wrong that costs me five dollars. Ah, the joys of having kids. But of course I'd take them over the best piano without a thought.

And of course many people who could get one just don't want it and that's fine with them. We all have our choices in what to do with our earnings. Some choose to put crap into their bodies like you said, others (like me) do not.

I can appreciate the view point of those of you who are in the industry and see this day in and day out. It is a business afterall. Some build, some sell, some rebuild, and some service. You've learned over the years to take the emotion out of it and see it for what it really is.

It's like a 16 yr old who just got their driver's license and would do anything to have an old clunker to drive around in. They would just be grateful to have it even if they don't understand the liabilities involved, until it bites them in the bank account. The parent who's been around the block a few times in those same old clunkers already understands this and tries to guide them, but realizes that they'll never learn until they have the chance to make the error themselves.

Top
#1935092 - 07/31/12 02:09 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1973
Loc: Philadelphia area
Oddly for the NYT's, they use a Philly moving company.

Out with the old - In with the new!

Top
#1935110 - 07/31/12 03:20 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5484
even if every one of those pianos being destroyed and dumped was a worthless PSO, as far as music-making is concerned, still it had valuable recyclable materials in it that shouldn't end up in a landfill.

every year the quality of lumber on the market gets worse. the lumber those older pianos were made from is of a quality that you just cannot find anymore. the iron in the plates, the copper in the strings--that must have some sort of market value.

i hate the wastefulness of it, even if these pianos are no longer viable as musical instruments. use the wood for making furniture. soundboards can make excellent wall paneling. use the metals. don't just fill up the landfills.

i'm glad the article in the nyt pointed out the emotional connection we feel to pianos. that's a good message to put out there. i was glad to see so many letters expressing outrage in the comments section. that means acoustic pianos still have an important place in our culture.
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

Top
#1935135 - 07/31/12 05:17 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Michael Taylor]
Goof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 357
Loc: UK
When I visited the Kimbriky (sp)dump near Sydney Australia it was a pleasant surprise to find that most items which could be salvaged were sorted and stored for sale; I noted two uprights in a container.
I can imagine a piano scrap ware-house: like a motorcar scrap yard where one could buy bit and pieces !!

Top
#1935139 - 07/31/12 05:33 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1075
Pique,

I doubt very much is going to waste. If the ivories aren't warped and cracked, the restorers will strip them off and save them. The cast iron is definitely being recycled - scrap iron brings in very good money, as does copper. Pick-up trucks go up and down our alley every day looking for any old metal objects, and we no longer call the junk man if we want to get rid of a broken down washing machine or trash compactor - we just leave it in the alley and it is gone the next day. In fact, when we had a wash machine installed the delivery guy told us the reason they cart away the old machines for free is because they sell the scrap metal and double their profits on the sale. Most of this metal is going to China, and while the Chinese will not be the buyer of the world's scrap metal forever, at the moment you can make hundreds of dollars daily bringing scrap into any US metal processor.

I'll bet the problem with old pianos is in the wood. Old forest planks from the 1920s or earlier can definitely be recycled, and there is good business planing this wood down and creating wide floor planks for new home construction. Piano soundboards, however, are layered wood, and the rims are an odd shape, so I suspect it is not practical doing anything but sending this wood up in flames. The one exception would be veneers from art case pianos, but I doubt these wind up in a junk yard. Some of the mahogany, rosewood, walnut, and maple are simply irreplaceable these days and it pays to strip this off and resell it to woodworkers if the piano isn't going to be refurbished.

There are millions of derelict grands and uprights that are destined for destruction in the next few decades. Assuming the market functions properly, almost all of these are next to useless as musical instruments and not worth restoring. What is left should be the cream of the crop, meaning if you have a restored or well-maintained older piano, it is just going to get more valuable over time.

Top
#1935172 - 07/31/12 07:43 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3876
Actually, it doesn't hurt. Piano sales and tunings would dramatically increase if all the junker pianos out there were tossed and new pianos were purchased as replacements.

What bothers me is the clients who insist on having me hobble along a beaten old upright that should be dumped. I had one yesterday, and the client was a musician!


Edited by Bob (07/31/12 07:45 AM)
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






Top
#1935175 - 07/31/12 07:54 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
No one's going to cry over an upright(digitals took over) a grand is another matter..
that was hard to watch.. frown

Top
#1935208 - 07/31/12 09:57 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: thetandyman]
Tribbs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/12
Posts: 43
Loc: Madtown
Originally Posted By: thetandyman
This video reminded me of the films of decent cars being destroyed by the "Cash for Clunkers" program. I saw late model Jaguars, Suburbans, Cadillacs being run until their engines were frozen , never to run again. [...]


... which caused the price of remaining used vehicles to rise (supply/demand) which in turn makes the relative price of a "new" vehicle seem more attractive. Toss in new car incentives and it becomes a boon to manufacturers.

Unfortunately the demand for used pianos is nowhere near the demand for used personal transportation.
_________________________
The People's Cube


Top
#1935234 - 07/31/12 11:23 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
bajabill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 86
Loc: mid USA
I can tell you from the perspective of a non-piano person, that buying a used piano is scary. Thats why I went the route of a digital. I know better what I am getting and the market is not flooded with what I would have bought for the same money in and accoustic.

In the future, if I stick with playing and become more knowledgable with regard to piano qualities and real values, I will probably buy an accoustic piano, but it will not be one of the garden variety $800 used uprights. I think the difference between an $800 old piano and a free old piano has more to do with the owner's "selling patience" than the actual value of the item. Most people inherited pianos and dont know a good one from a bad one and just look at craigslist to see the selling prices and jump right in the the rest. 3 months later, when it is still collecting dust, they offer it up for free just to get rid of the thing.

Top
#1935285 - 07/31/12 12:43 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Bob]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Not only that Bob, but then these same people often times expect perfection on something that is far from perfection. We can explain all we want that it is not worth fixing or that whatever we do for x amount of money, you will still have other issues because we are not rebuilding the piano and in many cases, we are not even re-conditioning the piano... Just keeping it going.

I have found over the years that IF, we do some work on the piano trying to help them along, they will sometimes call back complaining about this and that which we never worked in in the first place and already explained that we did not and of course, if we did, it would be additional money like rebushing keys that are wobbling and noisy for example. They are trying to save money but yet, expect more than what they are spending.

It is for that reason, that I choose most of the time to not do the work. It is not that I did not explain exactly what I was doing and wrote it down because, I always do. For me, it is hardly worth for that one reason alone. Plus, often times, once you begin working on an old frail piano, other things break or go wrong creating a lot more work than was originally planned on.

Early on in my career, my dad told me, "if YOU do not think the piano is worth fixing, walk away. Your reputation is worth more than anything else. Be honest, tell them the truth but, if you don't think the piano is going to come out to YOUR expectations, then reject the work. So, that is what I usually do.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1935338 - 07/31/12 01:53 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Colin Dunn]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5321
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Colin Dunn
The crux of the problem: Pianos are cheaper to buy (existing) than to build. Current labor costs are such that pianos are prohibitively expensive for many people. The trick to getting a piano on a budget is to know which instruments require major repairs vs. which ones can be fixed up for a song.


I think that’s part of it, but we also have to remember the often egregious salaries that executives pay themselves. From what I could find, there are approximately 1,680 employees at Steinway. The average salary for a mechanical engineer at Steinway is $53,669. The average computer/software engineer makes approximately $85-90k. I could not find reliable salary information for a technician. But let’s say the average employee of Steinway makes $57,734 (Salarylist.com’s listed average). I think it’s a little high, but I’ll use it for the sake of argument.

The average executive makes $694,548. Total executive compensation: $4,167,288.
So, 4.3% of the salaries go to 0.35% of the employees. Or, put another way, the combined executive salaries could fund an additional 72 jobs. The CEO makes 21x what the average employee makes. (Now, this sounds ridiculous, but I believe the national average is approx 385x what the average employee makes.. so in this respect, Steinway is doing a somewhat decent job of keeping executive salary down and average employee salary up.)

One more statistic: Between 2009 and 2010, the CEO’s salary increased 42.71%. Total executive compensation increased 20.2%. In the same time period, they laid off 115 workers. At least 15 of those workers could have remained if the executives had not given themselves a pay raise during one of the worst years in Steinway’s history.

So, I don’t want to take the thread in a new/different direction than what it was intended to be, but I just have a hard time swallowing these facts: executives are paid egregious salaries, fire people to increase their own compensation, charge an arm and a leg for their products, and then everyone blames it on the middle and lower classes for not buying those products… but it’s the middle and lower classes that the executives have fired in the first place.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#1935421 - 07/31/12 05:14 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Colin Dunn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 488
Loc: Arvada, CO
Derulux -

I agree with what you say completely. I'm not trying to blame the lower / middle classes for sitting out buying expensive products when the crummy job market has pushed a lot of people into poverty. Even Henry Ford recognized that he had to pay his employees well in order to keep them, and so that they could afford to buy new cars. If the 1% continue to kill off the middle class in the USA, they won't have anyone to sell to anymore.

Bob -

I happen to like old pianos because today's "new" pianos don't match the old ones, particularly for uprights. No one makes a 56" upright anymore, so if you want a really big and full-sounding upright with nice woodworking, the only choice is to buy an old one and fix it up. The "new" option today is a plain 42"-48" box, imported from southeast Asia. I seldom see newer 52" uprights on the used market around here. (I unfortunately passed up a chance to buy one last fall. Won't make that mistake again...)

It makes no sense from a resale perspective, but I'd rather buy an American-made upright and employ an American to restore it, rather than buy an uninspiring, imported box with lesser tone quality.

The equation is different with grands. With those it makes more sense to buy new as the case styles don't vary much between old and new. With those, getting all-new parts is a definite advantage.
_________________________
Colin Dunn

Top
#1935422 - 07/31/12 05:18 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1536
Loc: Danville, California
"If the 1% continue to kill off the middle class in the USA, they won't have anyone to sell to anymore."

Yeah, I just got back from running some errands and one of the 1% took a shot at me!

Top
#1935522 - 07/31/12 09:57 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3876
I stand by my comment - Kids would be better off learning on new pianos than struggling with the 100 year old uprights, 70 year old Lester spinets, 50 year old Winter spinets, and the lovely Aeolian stencil's. Toss them all out, and buy new acoustic. Piano stores should unite to make this happen, in my opinion.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






Top
#1935533 - 07/31/12 10:20 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Bob]
Jonathan Alford Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/11
Posts: 359
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Bob
I stand by my comment - Kids would be better off learning on new pianos than struggling with the 100 year old uprights, 70 year old Lester spinets, 50 year old Winter spinets, and the lovely Aeolian stencil's. Toss them all out, and buy new acoustic. Piano stores should unite to make this happen, in my opinion.


While I agree with this premise, how can piano stores unite to make this happen for a family of 4 living on 30k / year just scraping by? They won't stay in business long giving pianos away.

I learned many years ago on a beat up (I probably participated in some of the beatings myself) old upright. I never remembered a tech coming by. I did learn to love and appreciate piano music and approx 15 years ago I was able to purchase my first grand. Then late last year I was able to upgrade my grand.

If I followed your "rules - (my word not yours)," I never would have learned since there is no way our family could have purchased a new piano. (The old one was passed down from my grand parents.)

Jonathan

Top
#1935544 - 07/31/12 10:49 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Tribbs]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1233
Loc: Ohio, US
Originally Posted By: Tribbs
Originally Posted By: thetandyman
This video reminded me of the films of decent cars being destroyed by the "Cash for Clunkers" program. I saw late model Jaguars, Suburbans, Cadillacs being run until their engines were frozen , never to run again. [...]


... which caused the price of remaining used vehicles to rise (supply/demand) which in turn makes the relative price of a "new" vehicle seem more attractive. Toss in new car incentives and it becomes a boon to manufacturers.

Unfortunately the demand for used pianos is nowhere near the demand for used personal transportation.
If something doesn't work and isn't usable at some point its time to retire it but most of those cars were just fine. The government was just willing to pay more to get them off the street than their retail value was at the time. They weren't interested in truly getting rid of the unusable junk or they would not have put an age cut off in the program. The relative price of a new vehicle being more attractive doesn't matter if the customer can't come up with the money. As somebody who is only steps above being a bottom feeder in the car market cash for clunkers did me no favors. I don't see me ever buying a new piano. If the pianos in the video were truly past their usefulness then they needed to go but any suggestions of simply getting rid of the old stock to drive sales of new is probably not going to help the business with the economy as it is.
_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


Top
#1935577 - 08/01/12 12:20 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Bob]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5321
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Bob
I stand by my comment - Kids would be better off learning on new pianos than struggling with the 100 year old uprights, 70 year old Lester spinets, 50 year old Winter spinets, and the lovely Aeolian stencil's. Toss them all out, and buy new acoustic. Piano stores should unite to make this happen, in my opinion.

I agree, but piano stores can only do what the market is willing to (and able to) purchase. A piano store that relies on selling only Bosendorfer Imperials, and no one in their area happens to buy one, will go out of business. So, the store must cater to the market.

What may help most, and is within the control of most manufacturers, is if the manufacturers develop a way to make a more cost-effective instrument, particularly in today's economy.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#1935587 - 08/01/12 12:36 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1973
Loc: Philadelphia area
Way too many 1% wantabes

Top
#1935670 - 08/01/12 07:10 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Derulux]
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3876
Originally Posted By: Derulux

What may help most, and is within the control of most manufacturers, is if the manufacturers develop a way to make a more cost-effective instrument, particularly in today's economy.


Unfortunately, they already do this. It's called the digital piano.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






Top
#1935750 - 08/01/12 10:19 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Dave B]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1233
Loc: Ohio, US
Originally Posted By: Dave B
Way too many 1% wantabes
I would be happy simply being farther up within the 99%.
_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


Top
#1935780 - 08/01/12 11:28 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Colin Dunn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 488
Loc: Arvada, CO
Quote:

Kids would be better off learning on new pianos than struggling with the 100 year old uprights, 70 year old Lester spinets, 50 year old Winter spinets, and the lovely Aeolian stencil's. Toss them all out, and buy new acoustic. Piano stores should unite to make this happen, in my opinion.


I won't shed a tear for the 50- to 70-year-old spinets. The spinet action was a step backwards. I grew up practicing on a Kimball player spinet, the entry-level acoustic piano of the mid-1970s. Even as a beginner, I noticed that my piano teachers had better pianos (a 56" upright, a 9' concert grand). But my parents kept up that Kimball spinet, so it was still a serviceable instrument (and working player piano) after 25 years.

I can't agree about trashing ALL the 100-year-old uprights. The new market simply does not offer anything larger than a 52", and even those lack the kind of woodworking that was commonplace on early 20th century uprights. For the price of a new 52" upright, you can easily acquire a near-new grand piano. Except for Steinway, Mason & Hamlin, and Charles Walter, the American piano industry has closed up shop. The nicer of the American-made early 20th century uprights should be restored, not sent to a landfill.

I also have mixed feelings about trashing the "Aeolian stencils." They were low-end pianos, but if well-cared-for could still be decent to play on. The first grand piano I bought was a mid-1970s Aeolian 5' grand. The ones made in the 1970s are not falling-apart junk unless they were treated as such by their owners. Aeolian and Kimball baby grands, if kept up well, are the most bang for the buck on the used piano market right now. They just have low resale value due to the mediocre reputation of the brand names.
_________________________
Colin Dunn

Top
#1935823 - 08/01/12 12:50 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Bob]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5321
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Bob
Originally Posted By: Derulux

What may help most, and is within the control of most manufacturers, is if the manufacturers develop a way to make a more cost-effective instrument, particularly in today's economy.


Unfortunately, they already do this. It's called the digital piano.


Haha laugh I laughed when I read this. Good point, sir. smile

I think, however, my premise was supposing quality acoustical grands at affordable prices. But digitals are certainly getting better and better.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#1935849 - 08/01/12 01:39 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19472
Loc: New York City
I think much of negative reaction about the video would not be there if the pianos hadn't been thrown from the truck. I'm not saying it would be practical to carefully roll them down a ramp, but I think the reactiom, at least mine, would be far less negative.


Edited by pianoloverus (08/01/12 02:32 PM)

Top
#1935858 - 08/01/12 02:08 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Derulux]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3165
Originally Posted By: Derulux
But digitals are certainly getting better and better.


They really are. And a decent modern generation 88 semi-weighted keys digital is FAR superior to lousy worn-out acoustics, even those acoustics which are not quite yet landfill material.

The good news is that because the newer digitals are of decent playability, a lot of people are learning on them, and some are progressing as players to the degree that their interest is stoked for an acoustic, and not a junker either, or even a lower quality used one.

I have had several such students in recent years. One purchased a new mid-level Kawaii upright, another is saving for a good affordable new grand, such as a Hailun, and a few others are aware of the world of good acoustics, and time will tell. One is in college, and plans to get a good piano when graduating and settling down.

What is hopeful is that not one of these people want to upgrade to a better digital, even though what that have in most cases is not a top-of-the-line digital. Decent, but not the best. Instead, they all want an acoustic piano.

And perhaps because they are used to the digital always being in perfect tune, and in some cases running thru good monitor speakers, they probably will not settle for an out of tune acoustic, or one with a tubby bass or glaringly noticeable bridge breaks, or other ills. In other words, good news for good piano dealers.

The point I am making is that none of these people would be in the market for a better qualtiy acoustic as an upgrade if it were not for their entry into pianoland via an affordable digital. Because of their finances and/or living situations, none would have bought an acoustic as a starter.
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

Top
#1935868 - 08/01/12 02:33 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8569
Loc: Georgia, USA
Great blues tune, Rocket88!! smile

Wish I could play like that! (Maybe one day smile )

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
#1935878 - 08/01/12 02:49 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3165
Thanks!
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

Top
#1935910 - 08/01/12 03:56 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: rocket88]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: Derulux
But digitals are certainly getting better and better.


They really are. And a decent modern generation 88 semi-weighted keys digital is FAR superior to lousy worn-out acoustics, even those acoustics which are not quite yet landfill material.


Digitals will be dumped far sooner than most acoustics.

_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


Top
#1935923 - 08/01/12 04:29 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3165
One reason is that unlike acoustics, digitals are much easier to move!

ps...before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am NOT against acoustics! I have a nice one at home.
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

Top
#1935930 - 08/01/12 04:56 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: rocket88]
Rusty Fortysome Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/11
Posts: 194
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: rocket88
One reason is that unlike acoustics, digitals are much easier to move!

ps...before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am NOT against acoustics! I have a nice one at home.

DIGITAL PIANOS: easy to move, great beginner instruments, easy to keep in a smaller domicile, cheap (most of them) compared to acoustics, no real maintenance needed.

ACOUSTICS: sound awesome (if they have good sound)... nothing beats that pure power filling the room with REAL strings vibrating and resonating from the wood and bouncing off of everything. They are now prestige items, especially the grands. And they will work even when the power goes out and the world is circling the toilet.

There are pros and cons. An acoustic is becoming a musical yacht, particularly grand pianos above 6' long; they display money, space, refinement, and hopefully skill and understanding with a piano. Digitals will always display other qualities.

I'm sure digitals have and will dump by the myriad, since it is extremely easy to spill drinks in them, power surge blowout of electronic components, speakers go bad, connections inside grow frail, actions are useless after a few years of dedicated play, or any number of glitches afflict them and create press-wood n' plastic lumps sitting along the walls of unfortunate owners' homes.
_________________________
Currently working on/memorizing...
"It's You" from Robotech
"He's A Pirate"
"Crazy Bone Rag"
"Claire DeLune (finally)"

Top
#1935961 - 08/01/12 05:48 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Rusty Fortysome]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5321
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Rusty Fortysome
An acoustic is becoming a musical yacht, particularly grand pianos above 6' long; they display money, space, refinement, and hopefully skill and understanding with a piano.

PS- I completely agree with this sentiment, but I also hate this about pianos. I look at them for the music, not the prestige. But, I understand that most people (not necessarily you, Rusty smile ) do not think this way. I have never, ever, cared how "refined" someone looks owning a Bosendorfer Imperial. Sit down and play it.. then we'll talk. wink
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#1935967 - 08/01/12 05:55 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
The problem with digitals since they are electronic,after 5 yrs they are worthless(resale)
its treated like a PC..old technology..

Top
#1935970 - 08/01/12 05:55 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Derulux]
Rusty Fortysome Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/11
Posts: 194
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Derulux
... I have never, ever, cared how "refined" someone looks owning a Bosendorfer Imperial. Sit down and play it.. then we'll talk. wink


I feel that way too. If you own a piano worth $100,000 and can't play more than chopsticks... it's embarrassing. Unless perhaps that person hosts piano-nite every month at their house and they have that thing being used fairly regularly.
_________________________
Currently working on/memorizing...
"It's You" from Robotech
"He's A Pirate"
"Crazy Bone Rag"
"Claire DeLune (finally)"

Top
#1935976 - 08/01/12 06:15 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
piette Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 29
Loc: Durham, United Kingdom
I find this quite upsetting. I understand that there are some truly AWFUL old pianos which shouldn't get a second glance, but then there are the ones with a lot of potential! Watching this video reminded me of a novel which I read last year, 'The Piano Shop on the Left Bank' - I would highly recommend it to all! I would love to end up with an old workshop restoring nice old pianos to their former glory, much like one of the main characters in the aforementioned novel.
My own Erard 1840's concert grand is currently undergoing an £11000 restoration to make him as good as new! :-) I can't wait!

Top
#1935992 - 08/01/12 07:01 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Bob Newbie]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3165
Originally Posted By: Bob Newbie
The problem with digitals since they are electronic,after 5 yrs they are worthless(resale)
its treated like a PC..old technology..


For some, yes you are right, for others, not always.

I bought a Roland RD700sx about 9 years ago, (pro quality stage piano) used it extensively for gigging, and sold it about 3 years ago for asking $1000.00, sell for $900. It was getting a bit worn and sloppy, but worked fine. At that price is sold almost instantly. (I Replaced it with its successor, the RD700gx, which is basically the same unit with some minor upgrades.)

The old Roland still had good value because the technology of higher qualtiy digitals has matured to the point that recent used ones sound and play about the same as new ones, i.e. decent, not like the old ones from the 90's that sound horrid, IMHO.

Also, a few years ago I wanted to buy a piano for use as a practice piano while on the road, when the Roland is out on the truck.

The Casio Privia (88 keys, semi-weighted action) fit the bill. The Privias were new at about $500 then, and on eBay the prices for used ones, 3-5 years old, were no lower than $300-$350.

BTW, the piano in the tune in the link below is the Roland:
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

Top
#1936000 - 08/01/12 07:09 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8569
Loc: Georgia, USA
Rockett88, I have the Casio Privia 310... it was $599 at Guitar Center, and, you are right, used ones consistantly sell for $350 + on CL and eBay.

Of course, I've pounded the heck out of mine, along with my grand children... they call it the "funky piano". smile (Plus, it helps keep them off my acoustic pianos:-)

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
#1936016 - 08/01/12 07:50 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Rusty Fortysome]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19472
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Rusty Fortysome
Originally Posted By: Derulux
... I have never, ever, cared how "refined" someone looks owning a Bosendorfer Imperial. Sit down and play it.. then we'll talk. wink


I feel that way too. If you own a piano worth $100,000 and can't play more than chopsticks... it's embarrassing. Unless perhaps that person hosts piano-nite every month at their house and they have that thing being used fairly regularly.
I doubt it's embarrassing to many of the people you describe nor should it be.

There's nothing wrong with owning even the most expensive piano just for its appearance or the prestige or for the sound even if one is a beginner. I do think it's a shame that some people can't afford the piano they'd like to have. But this is far different from thinking that someone who can afford an expensive piano and buys one for whatever reason should be criticized.

At what skill level do you think owning an expensive piano, if one can afford it, becomes acceptable?

If one can't play a note one can always have a player system installed.

Posts like the ones I quoted above usually make me think the poster is just angry they can't afford something. Or envious. If one can afford any material item and doing so doesn't hurt anyone, I see no problem.


Edited by pianoloverus (08/01/12 08:12 PM)

Top
#1936025 - 08/01/12 08:19 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Rusty Fortysome]
Jonathan Alford Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/11
Posts: 359
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Rusty Fortysome
Originally Posted By: Derulux
... I have never, ever, cared how "refined" someone looks owning a Bosendorfer Imperial. Sit down and play it.. then we'll talk. wink


I feel that way too. If you own a piano worth $100,000 and can't play more than chopsticks... it's embarrassing. Unless perhaps that person hosts piano-nite every month at their house and they have that thing being used fairly regularly.


Based on this, I should have a 120 year old clunker that has never been tuned. Because I can afford something a little nicer than that I treat myself.

Jonathan

Top
#1936033 - 08/01/12 08:47 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Rusty Fortysome Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/11
Posts: 194
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

Posts like the ones I quoted above usually make me think the poster is just angry they can't afford something. Or envious. If one can afford any material item and doing so doesn't hurt anyone, I see no problem.


Wrong. I have an opinion which you don't agree with, but you feel that's the reason to assume something. I could, though I won't prove it, at this moment walk into a piano dealership and buy a 6-figure piano without a blink of pain.

I would find it embarrassing to have such a piano in my possession at this time. Such pianos should be shown and played, and they should be played well, in my opinion. I'll get one when I feel it is appropriate for myself to have.

Conspicuous consumption is boorish.
_________________________
Currently working on/memorizing...
"It's You" from Robotech
"He's A Pirate"
"Crazy Bone Rag"
"Claire DeLune (finally)"

Top
#1936037 - 08/01/12 08:56 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Rusty Fortysome]
Jonathan Alford Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/11
Posts: 359
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Rusty Fortysome
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

Posts like the ones I quoted above usually make me think the poster is just angry they can't afford something. Or envious. If one can afford any material item and doing so doesn't hurt anyone, I see no problem.


Wrong. I have an opinion which you don't agree with, but you feel that's the reason to assume something. I could, though I won't prove it, at this moment walk into a piano dealership and buy a 6-figure piano without a blink of pain.

I would find it embarrassing to have such a piano in my possession at this time. Such pianos should be shown and played, and they should be played well, in my opinion. I'll get one when I feel it is appropriate for myself to have.

Conspicuous consumption is boorish.


Not questioning your ability to purchase such a piano, but if most consumers had the same opinion as you, piano dealers would all go out of business as only a few would be worthy of owning a nice instrument.

In your opinion, should consumers have to "audition" in order to purchase a certain piano?


Jonathan

Top
#1936043 - 08/01/12 09:18 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Rusty Fortysome]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19472
Loc: New York City
Double post


Edited by pianoloverus (08/01/12 09:37 PM)

Top
#1936045 - 08/01/12 09:27 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Rusty Fortysome]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19472
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Rusty Fortysome
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

Posts like the ones I quoted above usually make me think the poster is just angry they can't afford something. Or envious. If one can afford any material item and doing so doesn't hurt anyone, I see no problem.


Wrong. I have an opinion which you don't agree with, but you feel that's the reason to assume something. I could, though I won't prove it, at this moment walk into a piano dealership and buy a 6-figure piano without a blink of pain.

I would find it embarrassing to have such a piano in my possession at this time. Such pianos should be shown and played, and they should be played well, in my opinion. I'll get one when I feel it is appropriate for myself to have.

Conspicuous consumption is boorish.
In terms of your personal piano I see no problem with thinking that you must reach a certain level of ability to deserve a high level expensive piano. I don't agree with you but for your piano it's your decision.

This is not the same thing as judging other peoples' reasons for buying an expensive piano or thinking they should be embarrassed or unworthy of buying an expensive piano if they can't play at all or are a beginner or just want a beautiful piece of furniture.

























Edited by pianoloverus (08/01/12 09:49 PM)

Top
#1936056 - 08/01/12 09:39 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I remember many years ago, a lady bought a brand new Steinway B. I gave the piano its first tuning, went over it and then explained how often it should be tuned. Her response was surprising. She said "oh, nobody plays it. I just bought a Steinway so people could see that 'I have a Steinway!'" I thought boy what a shame but then again, it's her piano to do with as she wishes I guess....
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1936058 - 08/01/12 09:46 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

or just want a beautiful piece o d furniture.


And some restore vintage pianos for this reason, even though they are discouraged by those selling truly disposable instruments.
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


Top
#1936064 - 08/01/12 10:01 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5321
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Rusty Fortysome
Originally Posted By: Derulux
... I have never, ever, cared how "refined" someone looks owning a Bosendorfer Imperial. Sit down and play it.. then we'll talk. wink


I feel that way too. If you own a piano worth $100,000 and can't play more than chopsticks... it's embarrassing. Unless perhaps that person hosts piano-nite every month at their house and they have that thing being used fairly regularly.
I doubt it's embarrassing to many of the people you describe nor should it be.

There's nothing wrong with owning even the most expensive piano just for its appearance or the prestige or for the sound even if one is a beginner. I do think it's a shame that some people can't afford the piano they'd like to have. But this is far different from thinking that someone who can afford an expensive piano and buys one for whatever reason should be criticized.

At what skill level do you think owning an expensive piano, if one can afford it, becomes acceptable?

If one can't play a note one can always have a player system installed.

Posts like the ones I quoted above usually make me think the poster is just angry they can't afford something. Or envious. If one can afford any material item and doing so doesn't hurt anyone, I see no problem.

I must say, sometimes we agree in thought, and sometimes we do not. This is one of the times we do not. wink

However, it is solely with your last line that I will concern myself, since I believe the rest of what you said is a fairly stated opinion, and I happen to be able to agree with much of what you said prior to your last paragraph. smile

Now, to respond to that last statement, which I do not agree with:

At what point does being able to afford more and more expensive things go from simply being able to afford more and more expensive things to actually hurting the people who cannot afford those (and other) things? Certainly, the $40-50M spent on Steinway pianos last year could not have been used for anything better. Would I be correct in thinking that, according to the logic/argument presented in your post? If that is not the case, I would be happy to hear an amendment to your thoughts. But if that actually is the case, please allow me to refute:

*The World Health Organization estimates that 6 million children die of hunger every year.*

But, nope, use that combined $50M (spent on Steinway's alone) to buy a nice piece of furniture instead.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#1936126 - 08/02/12 12:08 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: piette]
CoolPianoStuff Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 92
Originally Posted By: piette
I find this quite upsetting. I understand that there are some truly AWFUL old pianos which shouldn't get a second glance, but then there are the ones with a lot of potential! Watching this video reminded me of a novel which I read last year, 'The Piano Shop on the Left Bank' - I would highly recommend it to all! I would love to end up with an old workshop restoring nice old pianos to their former glory, much like one of the main characters in the aforementioned novel.
My own Erard 1840's concert grand is currently undergoing an £11000 restoration to make him as good as new! :-) I can't wait!


That’s a great book. I just finished re-reading it. But don’t forget the proprietor of the shop used to tear apart pianos he deemed unworthy of further life and fed them to his wood burning heater to try and stay warm.
_________________________
http://www.CoolPianoStuff.com/

Top
#1936192 - 08/02/12 06:35 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Derulux]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19472
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Rusty Fortysome
Originally Posted By: Derulux
... I have never, ever, cared how "refined" someone looks owning a Bosendorfer Imperial. Sit down and play it.. then we'll talk. wink


I feel that way too. If you own a piano worth $100,000 and can't play more than chopsticks... it's embarrassing. Unless perhaps that person hosts piano-nite every month at their house and they have that thing being used fairly regularly.
I doubt it's embarrassing to many of the people you describe nor should it be.

There's nothing wrong with owning even the most expensive piano just for its appearance or the prestige or for the sound even if one is a beginner. I do think it's a shame that some people can't afford the piano they'd like to have. But this is far different from thinking that someone who can afford an expensive piano and buys one for whatever reason should be criticized.

At what skill level do you think owning an expensive piano, if one can afford it, becomes acceptable?

If one can't play a note one can always have a player system installed.

Posts like the ones I quoted above usually make me think the poster is just angry they can't afford something. Or envious. If one can afford any material item and doing so doesn't hurt anyone, I see no problem.

I must say, sometimes we agree in thought, and sometimes we do not. This is one of the times we do not. wink

However, it is solely with your last line that I will concern myself, since I believe the rest of what you said is a fairly stated opinion, and I happen to be able to agree with much of what you said prior to your last paragraph. smile

Now, to respond to that last statement, which I do not agree with:

At what point does being able to afford more and more expensive things go from simply being able to afford more and more expensive things to actually hurting the people who cannot afford those (and other) things? Certainly, the $40-50M spent on Steinway pianos last year could not have been used for anything better. Would I be correct in thinking that, according to the logic/argument presented in your post? If that is not the case, I would be happy to hear an amendment to your thoughts. But if that actually is the case, please allow me to refute:

*The World Health Organization estimates that 6 million children die of hunger every year.*

But, nope, use that combined $50M (spent on Steinway's alone) to buy a nice piece of furniture instead.
By that reasoning no one should spend money on any item usually bought even by the middle class. No one should buy a house over 1000 square feet. In fact no pianos should be purchased by anyone because the money used to purchase less expensive pianos is much more than the money used to buy Steinways.

Do you think everyone should donate all their earnings above 40K(or some other figure)to charity?

Top
#1936243 - 08/02/12 08:37 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Annitenth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 466
Loc: Texas
Although I truly believe I outgrew my 1960's Baldwin spinet, I know my talent does not require the piano I own. I had a perfectly serviceable 27-year-old Kawai grand which, because I'm in my 70's, would have fulfilled my needs for the rest of my life without repair or restoration.

I'm not showing off to anyone with my piano...none of my friends seem even to know what a Bösendorfer is. I'm not wealthy. I just wanted to have one thing which is really super in my life before I die, and I am not the slightest bit "embarrassed" by my choice.

The cost of my piano, even had I donated it to charity, would not have eliminated or even made more than a tiny dent in world poverty.

Can't help wondering if those who would tell me not to buy a fine instrument are suffering from sour grapes.
_________________________
Anne
Bsendorfer 225
Technics PCM Digital Ensemble PR307

Top
#1936276 - 08/02/12 10:15 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I think it's GREAT that you bought yourself a Bose! I would venture a guess that 90 % or more, of the people in here, are not anywhere near, considered professional pianists. I know that I am not. But, why not own something that gives us pure pleasure anyway? Sort of like people leasing Mercedes and other cars just because... So what?

On the argument from another poster... While it may be sad that these pianos are being tossed, one major factor is not being considered. If people are not willing to put any money into these pianos to really, fix them up, what else can be done with them? Nothing.... We as techs certainly can't just hoard them all up for future reference nor can dealers. Nobody can afford that so, they get tossed. Even pianos that are worth fixing, people just don't want to fix them. So, there they set...
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1936289 - 08/02/12 10:56 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19472
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
I would venture a guess that 90 % or more, of the people in here, are not anywhere near, considered professional pianists.
Actually I think it's more like about 99.5% are not professional pianists. If PW has 50,000 members that would mean 250 are professional pianists, and even that is way too high in my estinmate.

Top
#1936296 - 08/02/12 11:07 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
SirHuddlestonFudd Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/12
Posts: 96
Loc: Cambridge, MA
When I rock-climbed, we used to laugh at the dudes who were all geared up but couldn't climb anything yet. The ethos is, you're supposed to "dirt-bag it" until you're worthy of the equipment. I believe the same holds for pianos. One should probably be able to play at least some Chopin preludes on it the day your August Forster grand arrives (how come nobody mentions good old A.F.? They're one of my favorite pianos...).

On the other hand, great pianos sound so beautiful that maybe they stimulate more practice. So if you buy more piano than you can play, you grow into it.

Top
#1936298 - 08/02/12 11:10 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5607
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
I would venture a guess that 90 % or more, of the people in here, are not anywhere near, considered professional pianists.
Actually I think it's more like about 99.5% are not professional pianists. If PW has 50,000 members that would mean 250 are professional pianists, and even that is way too high in my estinmate.


I don't agree.
If by definition a professional pianist is one who makes their living playing the piano, then I think we likely have more than 250.
For every Jeffrey Biegel or Steve Barta or Robin Meloy Goldsby member there are 20 or 30 members who aren't as high profile, but still make a living playing the piano. And in addition to them there are tons of members who play very well, but either don't make their living at it, or only play out part time.

I meet professional pianist all across the country (and during our European Piano Tour last year, across Europe) who belong to the forums. They frequently tell me they don't often participate, but they do watch and read the forums, and they are members.
_________________________
- Frank B.
Founder / Host
www.PianoWorld.com
www.PianoSupplies.com
Find Us On:
Facebook.com/PianoWorldDotCom
Twitter.com/PianoWorld
www.youtube.com/PianoWorldDotCom
Skype: PianoWorldDotCom
Estonia L-190, Yamaha P-80, Hammond XK-3, Hammond A-100, Estey 1895 Pump Organ, Harpsichord (kit), Clavichord (kit)
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
Coming to Maine? We're in Parsonsfield (southwest) let's get together!


Top
#1936302 - 08/02/12 11:19 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Well, if anyone would know these stats here on PW, it would be you Frank so I stand corrected then.

But yes, I was referring more to concert artists rather than to the regular people like myself who just play for the fun of playing and who make lots of mistakes.:)
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1936308 - 08/02/12 11:27 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19472
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Piano World
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
I would venture a guess that 90 % or more, of the people in here, are not anywhere near, considered professional pianists.
Actually I think it's more like about 99.5% are not professional pianists. If PW has 50,000 members that would mean 250 are professional pianists, and even that is way too high in my estinmate.


I don't agree.
If by definition a professional pianist is one who makes their living playing the piano, then I think we likely have more than 250.
For every Jeffrey Biegel or Steve Barta or Robin Meloy Goldsby member there are 20 or 30 members who aren't as high profile, but still make a living playing the piano. And in addition to them there are tons of members who play very well, but either don't make their living at it, or only play out part time.

I meet professional pianist all across the country (and during our European Piano Tour last year, across Europe) who belong to the forums. They frequently tell me they don't often participate, but they do watch and read the forums, and they are members.
If you include piano teachers who don't give don't give concerts for pay I'd agree, but if one is talking about pianists who get paid for performing I'm not convinced. Maybe if you include people a handful of posts. I spend most of my time on the Piano Forum and Pianists Corner so there may be some professional jazz pianists who are members that I don't know about.


Edited by pianoloverus (08/02/12 11:53 AM)

Top
#1936313 - 08/02/12 11:41 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Jonathan Alford Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/11
Posts: 359
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Piano World
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
I would venture a guess that 90 % or more, of the people in here, are not anywhere near, considered professional pianists.
Actually I think it's more like about 99.5% are not professional pianists. If PW has 50,000 members that would mean 250 are professional pianists, and even that is way too high in my estinmate.


I don't agree.
If by definition a professional pianist is one who makes their living playing the piano, then I think we likely have more than 250.
For every Jeffrey Biegel or Steve Barta or Robin Meloy Goldsby member there are 20 or 30 members who aren't as high profile, but still make a living playing the piano. And in addition to them there are tons of members who play very well, but either don't make their living at it, or only play out part time.

I meet professional pianist all across the country (and during our European Piano Tour last year, across Europe) who belong to the forums. They frequently tell me they don't often participate, but they do watch and read the forums, and they are members.
If you include piano teachers who don't give don't give concerts for pay I'd agree, but if one is talking about pianists who get paid for performing I'm not convinced. Maybe if you include people a handful of posts.


Not sure it matters one way or the other. I think all (or at least 99.99%) of the people here are here because we love pianos and the beautiful sounds that are capable of making.

What keeps me going is the tag line someone here has. I think it says "there are no wrong notes.". Now if that member would just add "Proper rhythm does not matter.". I would be satisfied.

Buy the best you can afford!

Jonathan

Top
#1936322 - 08/02/12 12:08 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8569
Loc: Georgia, USA
Wow, this thread has taken some strange twists and turns…

One thing is for sure, based on the title of this thread, a lot of pianos are getting old and warn out… I know I play the heck out of my pianos every chance I get. And, I never hit a wrong note (theoretically speaking). wink smile

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
#1936331 - 08/02/12 12:26 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Me neither Rick and I NEVER put my tuning hammer on the wrong tuning pin either! haha. I have swamp land for someone, for sale, if you're interested.... smile
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1936378 - 08/02/12 01:59 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5321
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Rusty Fortysome
Originally Posted By: Derulux
... I have never, ever, cared how "refined" someone looks owning a Bosendorfer Imperial. Sit down and play it.. then we'll talk. wink


I feel that way too. If you own a piano worth $100,000 and can't play more than chopsticks... it's embarrassing. Unless perhaps that person hosts piano-nite every month at their house and they have that thing being used fairly regularly.
I doubt it's embarrassing to many of the people you describe nor should it be.

There's nothing wrong with owning even the most expensive piano just for its appearance or the prestige or for the sound even if one is a beginner. I do think it's a shame that some people can't afford the piano they'd like to have. But this is far different from thinking that someone who can afford an expensive piano and buys one for whatever reason should be criticized.

At what skill level do you think owning an expensive piano, if one can afford it, becomes acceptable?

If one can't play a note one can always have a player system installed.

Posts like the ones I quoted above usually make me think the poster is just angry they can't afford something. Or envious. If one can afford any material item and doing so doesn't hurt anyone, I see no problem.

I must say, sometimes we agree in thought, and sometimes we do not. This is one of the times we do not. wink

However, it is solely with your last line that I will concern myself, since I believe the rest of what you said is a fairly stated opinion, and I happen to be able to agree with much of what you said prior to your last paragraph. smile

Now, to respond to that last statement, which I do not agree with:

At what point does being able to afford more and more expensive things go from simply being able to afford more and more expensive things to actually hurting the people who cannot afford those (and other) things? Certainly, the $40-50M spent on Steinway pianos last year could not have been used for anything better. Would I be correct in thinking that, according to the logic/argument presented in your post? If that is not the case, I would be happy to hear an amendment to your thoughts. But if that actually is the case, please allow me to refute:

*The World Health Organization estimates that 6 million children die of hunger every year.*

But, nope, use that combined $50M (spent on Steinway's alone) to buy a nice piece of furniture instead.
By that reasoning no one should spend money on any item usually bought even by the middle class. No one should buy a house over 1000 square feet. In fact no pianos should be purchased by anyone because the money used to purchase less expensive pianos is much more than the money used to buy Steinways.

Do you think everyone should donate all their earnings above 40K(or some other figure)to charity?


I don't agree with the statement. I was simply trying to follow your logic when you said those kinds of purchases don't hurt anyone.. wink
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#1936543 - 08/02/12 08:07 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Maxtor Offline

Bronze Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 08/14/11
Posts: 182
I'm glad the supply of broken pianos is shrinking. For everyone who looks at the wood, I'll admit that the interior side of the wood pieces are often beautiful, but brand new furniture-quality wood can be bought, shipped, and worked into a useful shape much cheaper than old piano wood can be.
The old "if they really want to, they can pull themselves up by the bootstraps" argument falls apart. Certainly a select few may do that, but most won't. If everyone had that kind of dedication, the world would be full of people who are great at whatever random hobby they tried first, and no time to do anything else. Also, it's a lot easier to bootstrap yourself if you have encouragement. I'd bet that almost every sports star would say that their agent, friends and family have been critical for their success.
Keep in mind that an acceptable-enough digital piano can be bought for less than the cost of transport and 1 tune of an old acoustic.

Top
#1936598 - 08/02/12 09:27 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
thetandyman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 443
Loc: Indiana
This thread has taken a turn for what , I'm not sure of. Years ago a Steinway salesperson told me that he thought almost 90% of their pianos were bought for the furniture and status. I'm not sure that I believe that figure. I bought a used Yamaha and was not planning to do so. I just got a deal. I don't mean to intimidate, but I have spent more on Public broadcasting donations and charities in a year than my piano cost. I am a very frugal shopper just because I enjoy the sport. I don't mind old pianos being recycled. When I was a young man, I wished I could afford a used console organ, but now I know that if I had purchased one, I wouldn't have been happy for long. The same with pianos. Fine quality begats interest. Poor quality brings the opposite. Old, worn out pianos may, perhaps, cause young players to lose interest in the hobby/profession. BTW, I am a professional musician, this only means that I make money from my ability, It doesn't mean that I'm a virtuoso!


Edited by thetandyman (08/02/12 09:29 PM)
_________________________
Marriage is like a card game, you start with two hearts and a diamond, later you wish you had a club and a spade!
Yamaha G7 Yamaha CVP75 digital, Allen 3500 theater organ

Top
#1936849 - 08/03/12 11:56 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: thetandyman]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 573
Loc: Mt View, CA
Originally Posted By: thetandyman
Years ago a Steinway salesperson told me that he thought almost 90% of their pianos were bought for the furniture and status. I'm not sure that I believe that figure.


It's easy to believe. Sort of like how probably 90%+ of all supercars never see a track, and are for status.

Top
#1936912 - 08/03/12 02:06 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
j&j Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 444
Loc: Southwest
I couldn't watch the video and cringed trying to read the NYT article. I know pianos are inanimate objects but it's hard to see, watch or think about pianos that were once loved, saved for, and brought music or the study of music into a family's home being tossed off a truck, sledgehammered, or cut up with an ax.

Many old pianos can't be salvaged or saved and are considered worthless, but to see them just dumped in a landfill seems really wasteful and environmentally irresponsible. In fact, I was glad to hear that the piano that I traded-in was sold to a new owner. I traded in my piano to buy a new one twice. I don't think I could dump any piano that I regularly played or enjoyed.
_________________________
J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working." Pablo Picasso

Top
#1936936 - 08/03/12 03:03 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19472
Loc: New York City
I think if one heard the sound of the pianos and realized many/most couldn't be salvaged at any reasonable cost the unpleasantness of seeing them dumped would be far less.

Top
#1936937 - 08/03/12 03:03 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19472
Loc: New York City
I think if one heard the sound of the pianos and realized many/most couldn't be salvaged at any reasonable cost the unpleasantness of seeing them dumped would be far less.

Top
#1936949 - 08/03/12 03:28 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
People may be surprised to learn that there actually is a very lucrative, if "quiet" market out there restoring and shipping golden oldies to China.

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

Top
#1936951 - 08/03/12 03:28 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
double post




Edited by Norbert (08/03/12 03:29 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

Top
#1936964 - 08/03/12 03:50 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Colin Dunn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 488
Loc: Arvada, CO
Norbert said:

Quote:
People may be surprised to learn that there actually is a very lucrative, if "quiet" market out there restoring and shipping golden oldies to China.


Interesting. China pumps out loads and loads of new pianos, but discerning consumers there want restored vintage pianos from the Western world?

What does that imply?

It's cheaper to restore and ship a vintage piano than to buy new (unlikely)
The restored vintage piano is a better piano than the typical new one being made today (quite probable)
_________________________
Colin Dunn

Top
#1936965 - 08/03/12 03:50 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Colin Dunn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 488
Loc: Arvada, CO
Sorry, double post


Edited by Colin Dunn (08/03/12 03:50 PM)
_________________________
Colin Dunn

Top
#1937037 - 08/03/12 06:10 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Looks like everyone is doing a double post today.

Looks like everyone is doing a double post today. smile smile smile
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1937038 - 08/03/12 06:10 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Looks like everyone is doing a double post today.

Looks like everyone is doing a double post today. smile smile smile

So, I'm just be the smarty pantz giggling ME! wink
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1937045 - 08/03/12 06:34 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19472
Loc: New York City
single post

Top
#1937062 - 08/03/12 07:39 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 573
Loc: Mt View, CA
Yeah seeing many double posts, and I keep getting:

UBB Message
We encountered a problem. The reason reported was
Database error only visible to forum administrators
Please click back to return to the previous page.

When trying to click on a thread title that should take me to the latest post that I haven't read yet.

edit: I got that message upon making this post too.

Oh ... #UNREAD is trying to take me to a post that seems to be invisible to me in the thread. This is like that one thread that had 11 replies, but only the original post was visible.


Edited by xorbe (08/03/12 07:43 PM)

Top
#1937066 - 08/03/12 07:48 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14139
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
There's a clock store in our area which sells old clocks for small fortunes - all going to Chinese living in same town.

Yes, it's a contradiction of sorts.

In a way it's very sad but such is life.

Perhaps some of the Chinese are taking these oldies apart and building some of their new pianos same/similar way.

O.K. I know I'm pushing things....

Norbert whome help
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

Top
#1937083 - 08/03/12 08:52 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: pianoloverus]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3165
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I think if one heard the sound of the pianos and realized many/most couldn't be salvaged at any reasonable cost the unpleasantness of seeing them dumped would be far less.


Exactly.
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

Top
#1937222 - 08/04/12 09:23 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: xorbe]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Originally Posted By: xorbe
Yeah seeing many double posts, and I keep getting:

UBB Message
We encountered a problem. The reason reported was
Database error only visible to forum administrators
Please click back to return to the previous page.

When trying to click on a thread title that should take me to the latest post that I haven't read yet.

edit: I got that message upon making this post too.

Oh ... #UNREAD is trying to take me to a post that seems to be invisible to me in the thread. This is like that one thread that had 11 replies, but only the original post was visible.


Yes, I get those UBB messages too. For me, one time I accidentally pushed submit twice but, I'm on my laptop on vacation so I don't generally use this one. The 2nd time above, I was having fun being the smarty pants that I am! smile
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1937520 - 08/04/12 10:09 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Norbert]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1233
Loc: Ohio, US
Originally Posted By: Norbert
People may be surprised to learn that there actually is a very lucrative, if "quiet" market out there restoring and shipping golden oldies to China.

Norbert



Maybe over there a giant American piano is a status symbol.
_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


Top
#1937549 - 08/05/12 12:01 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
thetandyman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 443
Loc: Indiana
I have read that the "gray market" Japanese pianos are shipped to the US because the Japanese folks don't like buying used pianos. Is this true with China? I remember years ago that the Japanese people were paying tons of money to acquire high end tube audio equipment from the USA. I sold several Marantz and MacIntosh units to Japan back in the early 90's. They were also paying crazy money for '50's cars such as the 1959 Cadillacs. I think the big money in that country has slowed due to the changing economy. What does this forum say?
_________________________
Marriage is like a card game, you start with two hearts and a diamond, later you wish you had a club and a spade!
Yamaha G7 Yamaha CVP75 digital, Allen 3500 theater organ

Top
#1938858 - 08/07/12 03:54 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5607
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
A friend of mine pointed out a follow up post in the NYT that lists some places you can get rid of old pianos, without dumping them in the dump...

Places to Donate Pianos

Where a Condemned Piano Can Win an Appeal


Aghast at the idea of pianos being dumped, crushed, burned and dismembered?

The emotions evoked by the deaths of used pianos are powerful, and they came flooding in response to a recent article in The New York Times about their frequent disposal and the reasons for it. But when it comes to keeping old pianos alive, owners find that their feelings collide with the reality of expensive repairs and inexpensive, easily available brand-new replacements.

Still, a few options exist.

Places to Donate Pianos
_________________________
- Frank B.
Founder / Host
www.PianoWorld.com
www.PianoSupplies.com
Find Us On:
Facebook.com/PianoWorldDotCom
Twitter.com/PianoWorld
www.youtube.com/PianoWorldDotCom
Skype: PianoWorldDotCom
Estonia L-190, Yamaha P-80, Hammond XK-3, Hammond A-100, Estey 1895 Pump Organ, Harpsichord (kit), Clavichord (kit)
-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
Coming to Maine? We're in Parsonsfield (southwest) let's get together!


Top
#1939237 - 08/08/12 09:26 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
leemax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 501
Loc: pacific nw, usa
I haven't read all the posts here, but I have to say that I understand how pianos can get dumped. I had a heck of a time getting rid of my old acoustic and it was still in great shape, relatively speaking. I consider myself lucky to have finally found someone who would take it for free.
This is kind of similar to what happens at my bicycle shop: people stop by all the time wanting to give me old, crappy bikes that they are taking to the dump. They think I will want them for parts or to fix up and give away to people. I have no use for a bunch of worn out parts, I am in business to make money, not to refurbish junk and then donate it, and I don't have the space to store a bunch of old bikes. Imagine how much more of a problem all of that would be with a piano! I know people invest a lot of emotional energy in their pianos, but there comes a time when they (the pianos!) are past their useful life and need to be disposed of, like an older car with a blown engine and tranny that needs to finally be hauled away and crushed, even if it was the site of your first kiss or best road trip or whatever. It happens. Keep the memories, let go of the object. Never love anything that can't love you back.
_________________________
Lee

Top
#1941042 - 08/11/12 08:32 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Scott Hamlin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 554
I teared up (just a little) watching this.
The worse part was when the skidsteer crushed them with its claw.
_________________________
http://DulceLabs.com
Sound, Video, Design

Top
#1941092 - 08/11/12 10:49 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
j&j Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 444
Loc: Southwest
Thank you Frank for posting those links.

And my piano loves me! grin
_________________________
J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working." Pablo Picasso

Top
#1942522 - 08/14/12 12:06 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: BoseEric]
analogdino Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 62
Loc: Thornhill, Ontario, Canada
"Kids get discouraged playing on pieces of junk and never continue..." Thanks, BoseEric. It happened to me. 50 years later I restarted, this time on a perfectly in-pitch instrument (electronic)... still struggling!
Cheers, Roger.
_________________________
An engineer(EE) from Thornhill, near Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
General Music PRO1 stage-piano plus very good audio system.
"Repair, refurbish, rebuild, reuse, re-engineer, recycle..." Keep the old 'uns playing! Applies to pianos as well as vintage radios (my other hobby!)

Top
#1942628 - 08/14/12 03:26 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
Kymber Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 1348
Loc: MA
That was hard to watch. frown
_________________________
“The doubters said, "Man cannot fly," The doers said, "Maybe, but we'll try,"
And finally soared in the morning glow while non-believers watched from below.”
― Bruce Lee

Top
#1946652 - 08/21/12 12:25 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Colin Dunn]
Goof Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 357
Loc: UK
I'm 5'11" tall and 56" would allow me rest an arm at right angles along the top of said piano. Am I coorect that the castors are included in the height of the upright ?

Top
#1946885 - 08/21/12 08:24 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
joevandyk Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 1
My wife's parents are offering us their piano for free. It was bought used in the 1980s, but they aren't sure when it was made. It's a Munn upright grand. It hasn't really been played or tuned in years.

It would be for our young kids to learn to play.

Do you guys think it would be worth it to pay the moving and tuning expenses? Or should we get something different for them to learn the basics on?

Top
#1949478 - 08/26/12 05:14 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: James Scott]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 509
Originally Posted By: James Scott
But the cold, hard facts are these: Most people will never ever in a million years be able to buy a "new" piano, so junk is all they'll ever be able to get (if they could even afford that). So better to have something that undoubtedly will never meet the standards of some of the more affluent on this forum (you know who you are) than to have nothing at all, I say. For most of us, it will always be a choice of getting back and forth to work, getting our kids to school, and still being able to afford a crust of stale bread, or getting a piano. Obviously, the former will always win out over the latter.


Absolutely agree. It does seem like many people here are quite disconnected from the reality of "most people" and the trade offs that they/we need to make. Sure there are people with flat screen HDTVs, Bose radios, and cars that cost $30K who also have a lousy piano for there kids. For every one of those there are many many more who literally struggle to make ends meet and are a vehicle breakdown or an illness away from very tough financial straits.

Others of us aren't in quite that bad shape, but still have to make tough choices about priorities and would need to make substantial sacrifices (not just forgoing luxuries) to afford a new or very high quality used piano (thinking $5K+ here). As a result a lot of people are doing the digital route, which is of course way more affordable.

Looking carefully at the video, I only saw two different grands, but there were an awful lot more spinets. Not coincidence I'm sure! Wound't surpise me a bit if there were a 10:1 ratio between them getting junked over the long term.

I only have a spinet, which I suppose would be "junk" to most people, but after playing several other pieces of junk recently that were truly atrocious, I've come to appreciate that my spinet actually is not bad at all and has pretty good action and voicing (for a spinet). It is horrendously out of tune and painful to listen to, but eventually I'll make some sacrifice to have it tuned. Would I trade it for a digital? Not on your life.
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

Top
#2265041 - 04/21/14 06:29 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Jeff Clef]
HomeyCat Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/13/14
Posts: 13
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
I believe the minister of music is quite correct in his experience that many people wish to unload worthless termite colonies on the church which should go to the recycler (does that hurt a little less than saying "to the dump"?) for a large write-off.

I've often said "Church basements are where old pianos go to Decompose" smirk

LOL
_________________________
HomeyCat from Idaho
1993 Baldwin L Grand

Top
#2265151 - 04/22/14 12:26 AM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Norbert]
PhilipInChina Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 1050
Loc: China
I have heard this but never seen any evidence of it, here, in China.

Originally Posted By: Norbert
People may be surprised to learn that there actually is a very lucrative, if "quiet" market out there restoring and shipping golden oldies to China.

Norbert



_________________________
Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"

Top
#2265919 - 04/23/14 04:15 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: PhilipInChina]
Jean Claude Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 365
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: PhilipInChina
I have heard this but never seen any evidence of it, here, in China.

Originally Posted By: Norbert
People may be surprised to learn that there actually is a very lucrative, if "quiet" market out there restoring and shipping golden oldies to China.

Norbert





Mind you, China is really big and things may go on without your noticing.

Top
#2265948 - 04/23/14 05:31 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 583
Loc: Germany
That was painful to watch.

I haven't read all the replies, but from the top of my head, I can think of a solution for the pianos: Recycle them properly. The metal parts surely can be used for something else. And the wood could be used for furniture, or at least firewood.

EDIT: Just discovered that this is an old thread.


Edited by patH (04/23/14 05:31 PM)
_________________________
Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
XXXI

Top
#2266013 - 04/23/14 07:32 PM Re: Death of a Piano - Landfill Pianos [Re: Piano World]
MLFLY Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/25/14
Posts: 24
If I can offer my viewpoint, I have a 1911 Schmoller & Mueller. A fortune was spent refurbishing it in 1982. The owner learned on it and it then was stored for a long time. I got it at a fair price (free) smile.

I've played guitar (including classical) most of my adult life. I've enjoyed this piano and can play short classical pieces, some pop and movie tunes. It does enough for me and has me playing an instrument I probably wouldn't play if not for this piano.

I understand that the refurbishment quality and price - LOL - have a lot to do with it, but it's enjoyable and I'm glad I have it.

Mike

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
8 Live Ragtime Piano Players on the Cape!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
What is this piece?
by JoelW
10/24/14 09:54 PM
Piano Rankings
by phantomFive
10/24/14 07:59 PM
What Piece Is This?
by Works1
10/24/14 03:43 PM
Suites Georg Bhm
by Johan B
10/24/14 03:40 PM
Your Favorite key action under 1,000 USD?
by login
10/24/14 03:18 PM
Who's Online
123 registered (ando, arX, anotherscott, a-z0-9, A Guy, 40 invisible), 1168 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76645 Members
42 Forums
158481 Topics
2327384 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission