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#1935015 - 07/30/12 10:52 PM How do I trill faster?
pants Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 11
Loc: Banned
Is it possible to trill faster by building more muscle? For instance, could I use a grip weight such as this: ?

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#1935017 - 07/30/12 10:57 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Dunno if you meant that to be funny but it is. grin

Originally Posted By: pants
Is it possible to trill faster by building more muscle?

I think if anything you could have a better trill by having less muscle, not more. smile

Oh -- you said "faster." My bad. ha

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#1935022 - 07/30/12 11:05 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: Mark_C]
pants Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/21/12
Posts: 11
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Dunno if you meant that to be funny but it is. grin

Originally Posted By: pants
Is it possible to trill faster by building more muscle?

I think if anything you could have a better trill by having less muscle, not more. smile

Oh -- you said "faster." My bad. ha


So I take that as a no? (Sorry I'm new to playing piano.) I simply wish to trill faster; could you elaborate on what is a better and faster trill? I simply would like some advice on adding a new utility to my technical arsenal.

My older brother owns one of those grip weights, I've already started but I don't know if I'm actually helping anything.

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#1935028 - 07/30/12 11:21 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17672
Loc: Victoria, BC
Strengthening your grip is not going to help you play trills faster. The following will help :

- Keep your fingers close to the keys (if possible, do not lose contact with the keys while trilling)
- Make sure the trilled notes are absolutely even; to achieve this, practice your trills by accenting odd-numbered notes in a trill. For example, a trill on C and D :
C, D, C, D, C, D, C, D, C, D, etc. and
C, D, C, D, C, D, C, D, C, D, C, D, C, D, C. etc.
- practice in bursts : C, D, C, (pause); C, D, C, (pause); and
C, D, C, D, (pause); C, D, C, D, (pause); and
C, D, C, D, C, (pause); C, D, C, D, C, (pause), etc.
- Developing your trill by practicing slowly and evenly; it's not going to happen overnight.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony
Writing from Paris until 15 May, 2014

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#1935029 - 07/30/12 11:23 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pants
So I take that as a no? (Sorry I'm new to playing piano.)

So....it really was serious. I wasn't sure.

Let's see what other people think, but to me, that's right -- it's a no.
And even if it were sort of a yes, I'd say it's an unnecessary emphasis.

Quote:
I simply wish to trill faster; could you elaborate on what is a better and faster trill?....

A couple of things:

"Faster" isn't the only thing about a better trill and probably not even the main thing. I think you should put at least as much emphasis on whether the way you're playing it makes musical sense. That includes things like whether it's even; or, sometimes you don't want it to be 'even,' but to have an ebb-and-flow, and then, are you achieving that; and whether you're succeeding at making the notes "blend" together, which usually we do want in a trill, and which depends on things like loudness or softness and touch.

And even if we do want to talk about pure speed, I think muscle strength has little to do with it. More important than strength is how you use your arm and hand, especially involving "rotation" as well as movement of the fingers.

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#1935035 - 07/30/12 11:34 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
tomasino Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 2039
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
I've been trying to develop a more even and faster trill in my left hand for "pictures at an exhibition." I've also been working on left handed tremolos, and encountering the same issues.

One idea that has helped is to articulate the trill as a triplet. I don't know that that in itself helps in making it faster, but it sure seems to even it out. If I articulate it as a duplet, the longer of whatever two fingers I'm using will dominate the sound, and it is quite unattractive. It also seems to me that if my trill is even, a slower trill may do just as well.

Tomasino


Edited by tomasino (07/30/12 11:48 PM)
_________________________
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10


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#1935043 - 07/30/12 11:49 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6035
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
I am glad this topic was asked... I wanted to ask about trills myself, because my trills are terrible, and one of my dearest, dearest (and most beautiful) friends has some unbelievably great trilling technique. I asked her the secret to her trill practice, and she said she has always been naturally good at them, just like my own octaves and leaps. Which, I am proud of. wink wink

But BruceD's advice sounds amazing... Also, one of my friends told me about an exercise the great Anton Nel once prescribed. And I'm sure Hanon's trill and tremolo exercises work, too. And countless others from great technicians. smile

I will continues doing those exercises. Please PM me if you want to talk about improving trills.

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#1935067 - 07/31/12 12:21 AM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5067
Loc: Philadelphia
Strengthening the muscles in your hands and arms is never a bad thing (provided you use proper technique for the strengthening), but as it has been discussed previously: you must use proper technique to gain more speed in your trills. If you cannot play them as fast as you like, there is something with your technique that is not quite there.

Muscle training helps prevent damage to tendons/ligaments/muscle groups, but does not help to improve technique. Technique is not about muscle strength, but rapid firing of the muscles in the proper way. smile
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#1935068 - 07/31/12 12:22 AM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5229
Loc: McAllen, TX
Step 1: Lightly drop wrist into trill (sans accent) and let it rebound up.
Step 2: Keep your fingers glued to the keys.

Voilà, etc.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#1935203 - 07/31/12 09:38 AM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
jordyzzz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/24/12
Posts: 9
no you cannot use grip weight like that to make your trills faster... it will make you better at dynamics (makes your finger stronger, so it can handle piano key's press, but no more than that) it's based on my own experience..

to practice trill (for example trill 2-3), try to do trills with metronome on piano... first slowly, then make it quicker and quicker.. please pay attention to the volume of the 2 notes.. it must be even.. and your finger and entire lower arm MUST BE RELAX! otherwise you will get some pain..
_________________________
pop and beginner jazz pianist, played for 3 years.. now trying classical music..

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#1935453 - 07/31/12 06:39 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4161
I've improved my trill speed with pushups and leg presses.
_________________________
To each his own.

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#1935486 - 07/31/12 08:23 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: JoelW]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5067
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: mazurkajoe
I've improved my trill speed with pushups and leg presses.

I am afraid to ask what, exactly, you are trilling with.. laugh
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#1935501 - 07/31/12 09:11 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: Derulux]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19292
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: mazurkajoe
I've improved my trill speed with pushups and leg presses.

I am afraid to ask what, exactly, you are trilling with.. laugh

+1 grin

Fortunately he was probably kidding. ha

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#1935504 - 07/31/12 09:15 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: Derulux]
JoelW Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4161
Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: mazurkajoe
I've improved my trill speed with pushups and leg presses.

I am afraid to ask what, exactly, you are trilling with.. laugh


My nose.
_________________________
To each his own.

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#1935628 - 08/01/12 03:23 AM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Get yourself a good teacher.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1935802 - 08/01/12 12:13 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5279
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: pants
Is it possible to trill faster by building more muscle? For instance, could I use a grip weight such as this: ?


Don't get that one. Get the one for the individual fingers.

http://www.gripmaster.com.au/

That really helped me when I was in high school.

Also try some rubber band exercises with your fingers for more elasticity.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1935855 - 08/01/12 01:58 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
Hakki Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2100
The grip won't help.
But having firm fingertips will.
Try this exercise:

_________________________
Put in one of IMO, I think, to me, for me... or similar to all sentences I post

http://www.youtube.com/user/hakkithepianist

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#1935891 - 08/01/12 03:19 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
FSO Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 741
Loc: UK, Brighton
There's this great device you can use: it holds selected fingers in place so you can separate your fourth and third digits' reliance on each other, it'll really boost their trilling capabilities...um...I don't think Schumann ever even patented it so feel free! laugh
Xxx
_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

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#1935973 - 08/01/12 06:01 PM Re: How do I trill faster? [Re: pants]
piette Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 29
Loc: Durham, United Kingdom
I haven't yet read the other replies to this thread, but my best advice would be that if you want to trill faster, then start trilling slower! Go really slow to start with and listen very carefully to the sound you produce to ensure that the trill is completely even. When you can pull that off, practise trilling each day with many different finger combinations; start with VERY slow trills played whilst a metronome is beating away in the background and just increase the metronome speed by 4 or 5 marks each day. You will get there...

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