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#1935653 - 08/01/12 05:33 AM Free improvisation, post yours.
WiZeM@N Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 72
Not sure how many players here do improvisation, but it would be cool to hear some free improvs. Like songs created spontaneously. In the vein of Keith Jarrett and his solo concerts. That is the pinnacle but same idea.

I'm thinking 1-3 minutes, short motifs.

I'll try to do some and put them up.

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#1935658 - 08/01/12 06:13 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
alberto Offline
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Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Brescia - Italy
I've posted some of mine on my blog. smile

http://angoloimprovviso.wordpress.com/

I really like the "free form"
_________________________
This will be our reply to violence: to make music more intensely, more beautifully, more devotedly than ever before.
https://soundcloud.com/alberto-forino


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#1935678 - 08/01/12 07:22 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
WiZeM@N Offline
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Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 72
alberto I like your style of playing.

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#1936005 - 08/01/12 07:18 PM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
Ted Offline
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Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1517
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
I record hundreds of those. I hadn't noticed much enthusiasm for that sort of thing on this forum so I stopped posting any. I have uploaded one from last week here:

CD77, track1

Three minutes would be pushing it though; I have only just managed to get them under the hour. It takes me ten minutes to get things flowing and I still find beginnings and endings a nuisance.


Edited by Ted (08/02/12 03:27 AM)
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#1936168 - 08/02/12 03:18 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
alberto Offline
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Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Brescia - Italy
Thanks Wize. smile

Ted, your link is broken...
_________________________
This will be our reply to violence: to make music more intensely, more beautifully, more devotedly than ever before.
https://soundcloud.com/alberto-forino


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#1936171 - 08/02/12 03:29 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: alberto]
Ted Offline
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Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1517
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
The first file was apparently too large and was cut off short of the end, so I reduced the quality to 192kbps. You must have just caught it as I was replacing the file. It should be all right now.
_________________________
"It is inadvisable to decline a dinner invitation from a plump woman." - Fred Hollows

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#1936180 - 08/02/12 04:48 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
alberto Offline
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Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Brescia - Italy
True, now the link works. Very nice playing Ted. In some moments really really inspired.
_________________________
This will be our reply to violence: to make music more intensely, more beautifully, more devotedly than ever before.
https://soundcloud.com/alberto-forino


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#1936211 - 08/02/12 07:20 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: alberto]
Ted Offline
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Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1517
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Thanks for listening Alberto, I am pleased you like it. I have listened to two of your pieces so far. The opening of the "Where comes the sorrow" one is very effective through its use of those insistent, slightly separated cells. Many players think that improvisation is all about complicated chord sequences, but I think flow, phrase and rhythm are what impart life in the end. The final piece on your link has a superb romantic outburst at 9:13, but gains force by its juxtaposition with the contrasting cellular sequences preceding and following it. I have long been of the opinion that improvisation ought not to emulate compositional forms of the past, however skillful that process, but deserves, and should create its own organic forms from the musical data. When a good mind improvises, a number of dynamic feedback loops are established, rather like mathematical chaos. It seems to me that musical life in improvisation takes off within a critical balance of stability and instability. Too much stability, negative feedback, results in nice, possibly accomplished, but uninteresting music. Too much positive feedback results in randomness, which is equally uninteresting.

Over the last few years, therefore, I have put a great deal of work into finding those consciously directed dynamic forms - not static structures of the past - which are most likely to result in transporting improvisation. The actual style of the cell content can of course be anything at all. Inspiration is simply that mental state where the music takes on a life of its own and the player feels as if he is merely observing an inevitable process taking place. Nowadays I can reach that state quite deliberately, but I couldn't always do it when I was young. It still seems to take me about the first ten minutes to get there, but I am trying to reduce that time.

Thanks again for listening.
_________________________
"It is inadvisable to decline a dinner invitation from a plump woman." - Fred Hollows

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#1936252 - 08/02/12 09:14 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: Ted]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Ted
The actual style of the cell content can of course be anything at all. Inspiration is simply that mental state where the music takes on a life of its own and the player feels as if he is merely observing an inevitable process taking place. Nowadays I can reach that state quite deliberately, but I couldn't always do it when I was young.


Definitely, it is a kind of weird feeling seeing and feeling the music just take on a life of its own, but as you say finding that flow can be difficult.
Nice playing btw.

Here is one of mine ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFMqWR88OG8
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

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#1936263 - 08/02/12 09:37 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
WiZeM@N Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 72
good playing from everyone! I made a new thread with songs, as I altered it abit and put in themes from well known pop artists. Fun start. Have a listen and tell me what you think:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1935682

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#1936271 - 08/02/12 09:48 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
WiZeM@N Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 72
The sound quality sucks because I had to plug in my keyboard to the computer. so not the ideal setup. I would prefer to record acoustic piano but don't have a mic.

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#1936285 - 08/02/12 10:39 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
Inlanding Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1728
Loc: Colorado
Hi WiZeM@n~

I do a fair amount of it - there are many samples, along with a few standards and classical pieces in the Piano Audio link in my signature. A few samples not in the link:

About Last Night
https://www.box.com/s/4e887f4e09ee3b4b257b
Contemplative
https://www.box.com/s/6ac42e5a03e877064536
Morning Greets the New Day
https://www.box.com/s/zck5cxbj326odaprve7q


Beeboss - that is a fantastic video! I very much like the dense voicings you utilized. Very enjoyable.
Ted - I listened to all 28 minutes - wow! Very impressive, indeed.
Alberto~ Blue in Green is very nicely done. I like your stylings. Very nice

Glen
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#1936499 - 08/02/12 06:28 PM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: beeboss]
Ted Offline
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Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1517
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Very transporting music, Beeboss. I like your generation of internal phrases through the non-uniform nature of your right hand finger work. The old ideal of glassy smooth finger work cannot do that. Heterogeneity is much more likely to produce accidental take-off points, musical DNA, if you like, than smooth, homogeneous passages. The mind then latches onto these "hooks" or instructions, and uses them as the musical matter in subsequent cells. Then those cells produce unforeseen DNA, instruction, giving rise to new musical data, and the process extendes indefinitely.

I like your chords too - several quite joyous changes of harmony. Interesting you brought in a few double notes at the end. Double note finger work is well worth the technical effort of developing - might take a few months of work but the harmonic and phrasal possibilities they afford are wonderful. Again though, not used continuously as the classical masters used them in their famous, smooth examples, but in heterogeneous groups, separated by microsleeps to form rhythm cells.

I am starting to enjoy this thread.
_________________________
"It is inadvisable to decline a dinner invitation from a plump woman." - Fred Hollows

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#1936531 - 08/02/12 07:40 PM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: Ted]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Ted
Very transporting music, Beeboss. I like your generation of internal phrases through the non-uniform nature of your right hand finger work. The old ideal of glassy smooth finger work cannot do that. Heterogeneity is much more likely to produce accidental take-off points, musical DNA, if you like, than smooth, homogeneous passages. The mind then latches onto these "hooks" or instructions, and uses them as the musical matter in subsequent cells. Then those cells produce unforeseen DNA, instruction, giving rise to new musical data, and the process extendes indefinitely.

I like your chords too - several quite joyous changes of harmony. Interesting you brought in a few double notes at the end. Double note finger work is well worth the technical effort of developing - might take a few months of work but the harmonic and phrasal possibilities they afford are wonderful. Again though, not used continuously as the classical masters used them in their famous, smooth examples, but in heterogeneous groups, separated by microsleeps to form rhythm cells.


Thanks Ted. I had no idea thats what I was doing but I like the way you put it.
Here are a couple more ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbTAwwwNKE0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJU0XnkVNBM

I do some of this everyday but rarely record it.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

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#1936532 - 08/02/12 07:42 PM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: Inlanding]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Inlanding


Nice stuff Glen
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#1936549 - 08/02/12 08:20 PM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: beeboss]
Ted Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1517
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Originally Posted By: beeboss

I do some of this everyday but rarely record it.


Maybe it might pay you to do so. I record and listen to most of mine these days. It sounds solipsistic, and probably is, but the benefits outweigh such matters. I delay the listening for 24 hours because I invariably think my playing a lot worse than it actually was immediately after the event. I have no idea why, but others have reported the same effect with their own playing so it seems a common reaction.

I wouldn't advise a beginning improviser to be too self-critical lest it disrupt future flow, but all improvisers develop attractors over the years. Whether these are positive personal characteristics or just vacuous mannerisms of habit is sometimes hard to assess. Listening helps with this judgement, or so I have found.
_________________________
"It is inadvisable to decline a dinner invitation from a plump woman." - Fred Hollows

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#1936731 - 08/03/12 02:33 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
Ted Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1517
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Glen:

You have a very attractive touch. An economy of notes, very clearly articulated. Proving yet again that we do not require torrents of notes played at ninety miles an hour to achieve musical effect. I especially like your little swing sections and could easily have listened to more of those. Your swing phrasing reminds me very much of Mary Lou Williams; just the right accents in just the right places with nothing extraneous to the idea. I have tried to do that for years but I am keenly aware it has escaped me. It's a question of "how" rather than "what".

Beeboss:

Those last two demonstrate your wide command of idiom, and no doubt you have much more up your sleeve. I kept thinking of Frank Bridge actually, a very underrated creator of piano music in my opinion. Whatever patterns, conscious cells, you were playing had that same numinous effect on my brain that late Bridge does. Not that you were probably imitating anything I imagine.

Wiseman:

An acute sense of rhythm, which I suspect would assert itself even more in a longer session. I'm afraid I wouldn't have the faintest idea about popular tunes but your playing sounds well enough without that knowledge.

Let's try to keep this thread going and hope that more join in. A good balance of personal idiom is emerging.


Edited by Ted (08/03/12 02:53 AM)
_________________________
"It is inadvisable to decline a dinner invitation from a plump woman." - Fred Hollows

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#1937089 - 08/03/12 09:07 PM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
WiZeM@N Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 72
hey Ted, thanks for the comment. I've been trying to work on my rhythm and develop that inner beat. I play mostly solo piano so you can tend to drift or wander off sometimes.

Another idea would be to take some standards or tunes that we all know and pick one to do an improv on, giving lots of freedom to stretch or alter the melody, harmony, rhythm as you like.

The plus is that we would know the song and get a better sense of what each person's style and approach is.

Here's a few tunes:

Round midnight
My funny valentine
Nearness of You

feel free to add your own and we can try it out.

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#1938091 - 08/06/12 10:01 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
alberto Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Brescia - Italy
I've tried to post a reply before, but something went wrong.

Btw, Don't u think that if we start from some tunes, we can't call those "free-improvisations" but "freely-interpretations"?
_________________________
This will be our reply to violence: to make music more intensely, more beautifully, more devotedly than ever before.
https://soundcloud.com/alberto-forino


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#1944677 - 08/17/12 06:38 PM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
Ted Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1517
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
I have noticed a larger than usual number of downloads of my previous recording so here is another track; I must have many hundreds of them by this time. I have been working on my technique and playing pieces lately but only with a view to bettering improvisation. As usual I start pretty slack but after the first few minutes it doesn't seem too foul.

CD77 track 2



Edited by Ted (08/17/12 06:39 PM)
_________________________
"It is inadvisable to decline a dinner invitation from a plump woman." - Fred Hollows

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#1949421 - 08/26/12 03:28 PM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: Ted]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Hey everybody, I listened to a bunch of the stuff you all have posted a couple of weeks ago. There's a lot of great playing going on! I've always had an interest in free playing but only dabbled in it from time to time. But being in a slump with my jazz for awhile, listening to what you all posted inspired me and got me thinking about what I'm doing with my music. So I decided to record some stuff to see what would happen. Turns out I really enjoyed it! So much so I decided to put the recordings together as a record. I put up a website where you can download all the music for free. I hope you all like it and thanks for providing the impetus and inspiration for my new musical direction.

www.watchingmythoughts.weebly.com

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#1949481 - 08/26/12 05:28 PM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
Great stuff Scott, that is really a project you undertook. What you say about 'the feeling of connectedness' is definitely something I can relate to and something that playing free can really increase, it did for me anyway.
I have only listened to the first track so far but it has a really nice feel to it. You say you are in a slump with your jazz but this is jazz, to me at least, and it is far from slumpy. You may find that all this free playing also helps with playing more straight ahead jazz as well.
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#1949565 - 08/26/12 09:10 PM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
Inlanding Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1728
Loc: Colorado
Ted, your improvisation is amazing you are able to keep it going for so long. What is your motivation for such work?

beeboss, I really liked your improvisations. Very professional sounding and quite moving, actually. Very impressive.

Scott - that's an incredible number of tracks! Really interesting is the variety among them. It's a great deal of work. Did you do those over a few days or weeks, or in one day? I agree completely with beeboss - the larger you can expand your own musical vocabulary in all styles of music, they will apply to your jazz focus when the opportunity presents itself.

Thanks, beeboss and Ted - - glad you enjoyed the short takes.

Here are a couple more short and sweet improvs, one quite different from the other. A friend provided those names after she listened to them.

A Long Year: https://www.box.com/s/qufzrhtc4cd21du0vzh6

Sun Up: https://www.box.com/shared/6g112ld9cp

Glen
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A Bit of YouTube
PTG Associate Member

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#1949708 - 08/27/12 09:06 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: Inlanding]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Thanks Beeboss and Inlanding for checking out my stuff.

Beeboss, I know what you mean by still considering this jazz. I'm just cautionary with labels after realizing that for some people, this can open a whole can of worms. smile

Inlanding, I recorded the first 5 tracks, back to back on Tuesday... right after getting my piano tuned. laugh Then I recorded the last 4 on Wednesday. By the way, I listened to your two new postings... very nice!

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#1950002 - 08/27/12 06:43 PM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: Inlanding]
Ted Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1517
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Originally Posted By: Inlanding
Ted, your improvisation is amazing you are able to keep it going for so long. What is your motivation for such work?


Some earlier ones were much longer but I have limited myself to half an hour recently to avoid strains, dystonias and the like. It is its own motivation. It is a completely reliable source of ecstasy. I have always had a relentless drive to create at the instrument since I was a kid. I composed and wrote out many pieces when I was younger but these days improvisation is close to everything. It is the ideal medium for people like me who have an infinite supply of ideas but modest musical ability, even less musical training and a psyche which doesn't fit the usual social patterns of musical interaction.

To put it another way, I'm not very good at anything else !


Edited by Ted (08/27/12 06:51 PM)
_________________________
"It is inadvisable to decline a dinner invitation from a plump woman." - Fred Hollows

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#1950230 - 08/28/12 06:46 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: Scott Coletta]
alberto Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Brescia - Italy
Great work Scott smile

I've listened a lot of amazing music in this thread. I was wondering how a lot of material is, in some way, such personal.

A question for you all: how, if u do, do u practice this kind of stuff? Do u have exercize? Study composition? Just do an re-do?

I'm not sure to have a very rigorous manner to train this skill.
_________________________
This will be our reply to violence: to make music more intensely, more beautifully, more devotedly than ever before.
https://soundcloud.com/alberto-forino


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#1950249 - 08/28/12 08:11 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: alberto]
Ted Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1517
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Originally Posted By: alberto
A question for you all: how, if u do, do u practice this kind of stuff?


Practising improvisation is almost a contradiction in terms for me. To practise implies the existence of another state which is the real thing, like performance for a concert pianist for instance. When I improvise it is always real and unique to the moment.

Originally Posted By: alberto
Do u have exercize?


The only technical work I do is a few minutes night and morning on my silent Virgil Practice Clavier. But even that varies from day to day. I don't go up and down scales and the like in the same old way day in and day out as some people do.

Originally Posted By: alberto
Study composition?


I have never formally studied composition, theory or harmony and do not understand them. I wrote out a large number of pieces when I was younger, but most of them crystallised out of improvisation over time.

Originally Posted By: alberto
Just do an re-do?


Precise repetition I find very uninteresting. Even within a piece, regular or strictly periodic cells I find very dull. "Almost periodic" cells are much more vital and more likely to spawn successive ideas.



Edited by Ted (08/28/12 08:16 AM)
_________________________
"It is inadvisable to decline a dinner invitation from a plump woman." - Fred Hollows

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#1950284 - 08/28/12 09:48 AM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: alberto]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: alberto

A question for you all: how, if u do, do u practice this kind of stuff? Do u have exercize? Study composition? Just do an re-do?

I'm not sure to have a very rigorous manner to train this skill.


I've spent a huge amount of time practicing improvisation in the jazz tradition. That has involved studying theory, composition and technique, as well as a fair amount of transcribing and ear training. Mostly, for me, improvisation is about having a vocabulary to work with. Unlike Ted, I find that alot of repetition is necessary to absorb things, but I spend an equal amount of time exploring primarily for the purpose of finding things to absorb. So I would say that I have two approaches to practice... 1. absorb ideas through repetition, analysis, understanding, and 2. practice performing improvising. Again though, for me this has been almost entirely in the jazz tradition for more than 10 rigorous years, and classical and popular stuff before that (which didn't involve improvising much at all).

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#1950550 - 08/28/12 06:55 PM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: WiZeM@N]
Ted Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1517
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
I listened to all nine pieces, Scott, and found them deeply calming and optimistic. Perhaps I might do well to consider such ambiance myself, as my own playing usually leaves me feeling like a limp rag. The exception was your fourth, which seems to spring from an entirely different haptic process, one which seems full of possibilities - a sort of modern baroque perhaps. I listened to that one several times.
_________________________
"It is inadvisable to decline a dinner invitation from a plump woman." - Fred Hollows

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#1950589 - 08/28/12 08:47 PM Re: Free improvisation, post yours. [Re: Ted]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Thanks Ted! Glad you liked it. Yeah the 4th track was considerably different. Not sure why. smile

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