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#1938873 - 08/07/12 05:08 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ando]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: ando
Amazing that they think that would go unnoticed when non-Japanese techs with Aussie accents named Bruce show up at their door.

...hey wait a minute...now that I think of it the one that came to my house seemed to know too much about Fosters Lager and something about putting something on the 'barbie.' I now recognize that the accent he had was more southern than eastern too. Boy am I a fool.

But seriously, I don't think I'd be too impressed with having a local tech come instead of one of the 20 or so artisans. I wonder how educated the sales staff are the you and the other gentleman talked to. Maybe they are also looking at the NA website thinking that the information therein applies to all the Common Wealth countries too.
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1938934 - 08/07/12 07:10 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: Tribbs]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3588
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Tribbs
It's simple. They call it supply and demand.
You put your best people where there is the most demand.


Well, either they are flying in from Japan or they aren't. If they aren't they could be considered to be working in America. That's not the myth they are pushing. They are saying that they fly in MPAs specifically to do Shigeru services - whether it's in the US or Australia - presumably they work at the factory when they aren't being called out. If that's the case, they can fly them anywhere. If they aren't factory MPAs coming from Japan, they are just techs like anywhere else.

By the way, don't give me that "way of the world" tone. I didn't come down in the last shower and I don't need your life-lessons. I am expressing an opinion that I don't like deceptive conduct, not that I don't understand what drives such conduct. Of course it's profit driven - no surprise there.

Quote:
About how many genuine Japan factory Shigeru MPAs do you think exist?
I couldn't be less interested. I only care about what they promise and whether they deliver.

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#1938937 - 08/07/12 07:14 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: scepticalforumguy]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3588
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: scepticalforumguy


But seriously, I don't think I'd be too impressed with having a local tech come instead of one of the 20 or so artisans. I wonder how educated the sales staff are the you and the other gentleman talked to. Maybe they are also looking at the NA website thinking that the information therein applies to all the Common Wealth countries too.


That may well be the case, but they are representatives of Shigeru Kawai, and Kawai will hear the complaints. Maybe I'll shoot Kawai an email and let them know that this deception is going on and suggest they issue a directive to their non-US dealers not to misrepresent the MPA situation.

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#1938957 - 08/07/12 08:01 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ando]
Tribbs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/12
Posts: 43
Loc: Madtown
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Tribbs
It's simple. They call it supply and demand.
You put your best people where there is the most demand.


Well, either they are flying in from Japan or they aren't. If they aren't they could be considered to be working in America. That's not the myth they are pushing. They are saying that they fly in MPAs specifically to do Shigeru services - whether it's in the US or Australia - presumably they work at the factory when they aren't being called out. If that's the case, they can fly them anywhere. If they aren't factory MPAs coming from Japan, they are just techs like anywhere else.

By the way, don't give me that "way of the world" tone. I didn't come down in the last shower and I don't need your life-lessons. I am expressing an opinion that I don't like deceptive conduct, not that I don't understand what drives such conduct. Of course it's profit driven - no surprise there.

Quote:
About how many genuine Japan factory Shigeru MPAs do you think exist?
I couldn't be less interested. I only care about what they promise and whether they deliver.


You don't need an MPA.
You need a bartender.
_________________________
The People's Cube


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#1938958 - 08/07/12 08:03 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2713
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Currently and in a nutshell, the argument surrounds the idea that only 20 or so people in the whole world are qualified to make their pianos play nicely? And all of those people live in Japan. And even when they loan them out, they only lease them to N.America. That ... kinda sucks. frown

Now I do not believe that to be true, but if that remains the argument here, you are really going to scare everybody from buying a Shigeru. An MPA visit is fabulous. The tuning is only $125 but the round-trip plane ticket from Japan is about $4,000. grin smirk
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#1938977 - 08/07/12 08:39 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: Tribbs]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3588
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Tribbs
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Tribbs
It's simple. They call it supply and demand.
You put your best people where there is the most demand.


Well, either they are flying in from Japan or they aren't. If they aren't they could be considered to be working in America. That's not the myth they are pushing. They are saying that they fly in MPAs specifically to do Shigeru services - whether it's in the US or Australia - presumably they work at the factory when they aren't being called out. If that's the case, they can fly them anywhere. If they aren't factory MPAs coming from Japan, they are just techs like anywhere else.

By the way, don't give me that "way of the world" tone. I didn't come down in the last shower and I don't need your life-lessons. I am expressing an opinion that I don't like deceptive conduct, not that I don't understand what drives such conduct. Of course it's profit driven - no surprise there.

Quote:
About how many genuine Japan factory Shigeru MPAs do you think exist?
I couldn't be less interested. I only care about what they promise and whether they deliver.


You don't need an MPA.
You need a bartender.


I've never noticed you before, but a quick scan of your posts reveals you as a Shigeru owner (apologist). That explains your defensive attitude... Shigerus are ok, lying Kawai dealers, not so good.

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#1938978 - 08/07/12 08:41 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: PianoWorksATL]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
Currently and in a nutshell, the argument surrounds the idea that only 20 or so people in the whole world are qualified to make their pianos play nicely? And all of those people live in Japan. And even when they loan them out, they only lease them to N.America. That ... kinda sucks. frown


Ya, I'd say you've gotten this pretty wrong, Sam. The pianos can be serviced by anybody, just as any piano can. However, as you well know, someone that has actually built the piano might have that much more knowledge about voicing, regulating and tuning than another tech that needs to be a jack of all trades in order to make a living. Wouldn't it be nice if they had MPAs for all the performance pianos? Unfortunately they don't and often consumers get a really skewed vision of what a certain brand may sound like, say Estonia, because the prep work from a particular dealer is less than stellar.
Finding a piano that is performing at its peak is hard enough, made even harder when most pianos in most showrooms are barely in tune let alone set up and regulated correctly.
So, unless you've actually heard the difference between a piano that has been tuned and regulated by someone that has intimate knowledge with that particular brand, and a piano that has been set up and tuned by a local tech, then I'd say despite your position as a piano dealer you may be as in the dark as anyone else about the subject.

As for not having MPAs for areas other than North America, yes, that does suck, and if I were purchasing a piano again, I may not have been as convinced to buy a Shigeru over other brands. It appears that Alan (Grotrian guy) found the Shigerus in less than optimal condition, as well as perhaps having a bad ending with that dealer. Either way, it says nothing about the North American market, and how successful the pianos are doing here.
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1938983 - 08/07/12 08:53 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN


_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#1939002 - 08/07/12 09:16 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2713
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I was just pointing out what someone walking into the room would see and hear, and how far it had gone from someone saying "I did like this, I didn't like that, I don't know why and therefore I'm not good at explaining why."

I've elsewhere praised the emphasis Kawai puts on supporting their SK's. It is a separate and huge problem with customers when someone undermines a really good tech because of official endorsements. The other side of that is when tech egos get too big to take direction. Those will be several long stories that I will never write. At different levels, I've made mistakes and participated in these problems.

We sent 2 techs for specific training in Vienna - Bosendorfer certification. Great training, but I think it took years to work out the endorsement. I've known sub-par techs hired as fill-ins but labeled by a dealer as certified Such and Such technicians go out and wreck someones instrument. I've seen official mistakes as well as insightful management willing to cross lines.

I'll say this. Of all the sales where we competed against SK instruments, win or lose, 75% came down to an obvious preference. I think we broke the 25% that were otherwise a tie by being credible and generally pleasant. smile In the sales where we lost, I don't expect the customers to be particularly articulate in why not us. I have those uncomfortable conversations and only once in a while do I really gain insight. It's okay.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#1939020 - 08/07/12 09:38 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ando]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: ando


That may well be the case, but they are representatives of Shigeru Kawai, and Kawai will hear the complaints. Maybe I'll shoot Kawai an email and let them know that this deception is going on and suggest they issue a directive to their non-US dealers not to misrepresent the MPA situation.


Sydney (Opera house maybe?): http://vimeo.com/39600684
MPA from Japan in Australia.
End of story? I'd contact that dealer again and see what's up.
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



Top
#1939025 - 08/07/12 09:50 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: scepticalforumguy]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: scepticalforumguy
Originally Posted By: ando


That may well be the case, but they are representatives of Shigeru Kawai, and Kawai will hear the complaints. Maybe I'll shoot Kawai an email and let them know that this deception is going on and suggest they issue a directive to their non-US dealers not to misrepresent the MPA situation.


Sydney (Opera house maybe?): http://vimeo.com/39600684
MPA from Japan in Australia.
End of story? I'd contact that dealer again and see what's up.


I went through all of the videos and they were of the prep work in Japan and didn't show the work done in Sydney.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#1939055 - 08/07/12 10:56 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1117
Loc: chicago, il
well the optimistic side of me thinks yeah that'd be cool to have a factory rep come out and tweak my new piano but my far more pessimistic side wonders why the heck i would spend that much on a piano that would not only get past factory QA but dealer prep as well to require such an event to have to occur. for a buck twenty five i have the CSO tech service my machine, and he gets the job done without having to travel 6k miles.

i actually think SKs are great pianos, but as in everything in life, we must be able to separate the sizzle from the steak.
_________________________
diary of an amateur pianist

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#1939065 - 08/07/12 11:17 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: scepticalforumguy
Originally Posted By: ando


That may well be the case, but they are representatives of Shigeru Kawai, and Kawai will hear the complaints. Maybe I'll shoot Kawai an email and let them know that this deception is going on and suggest they issue a directive to their non-US dealers not to misrepresent the MPA situation.


Sydney (Opera house maybe?): http://vimeo.com/39600684
MPA from Japan in Australia.
End of story? I'd contact that dealer again and see what's up.



I went through all of the videos and they were of the prep work in Japan and didn't show the work done in Sydney.


You know, you're right. I just saw the Aus website, and the video and assumed it was actually on site. My mistake.
_________________________
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1939128 - 08/08/12 01:05 AM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
backto_study_piano Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 432
Loc: Australia
[comment deleted]


Edited by backto_study_piano (10/03/12 09:53 AM)
_________________________
Alan from Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert - she's 7'4" long and ebony) & 2 Allen Organs [long story - the first is for sale] - MDS312 and CF-15.

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#1939201 - 08/08/12 07:54 AM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: Tribbs]
chihuahua Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 391
Loc: An Oligarchy
I refer to Shigeru Kawai's website:

http://www.shigerukawai.com/features/mpa_visit.html

My friend lives in Singapore and owns a Shigeru Kawai SK3. Until today, there is no MPA visit from Kawai (despite the PROMISE from Kawai Japan Website). There's only the occasional tuning from the local dealer (no voicing/regulation) - which he has to pay for. So, when it comes to aftersales service in Singapore for Shigeru Kawai, it's as bare as it ever gets!

So much for the "One of our elite Master Piano Artisans will be sent from Japan to provide personalized care for your SHIGERU piano in the form of concert-level tuning, regulation and voicing" bullsh*t.
_________________________
Nepotism: We promote family values here - almost as often as we promote family members.

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#1939228 - 08/08/12 09:10 AM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 772
Loc: Dorset, UK
Re my RX2 and the master piano technician. It was 2 - 3 years back when the piano was about 5 years' old. I had an issue with one or two odd noises, my technician wrote to Kawai supporting my concern. A Japanese mpt had just arrived in the UK. My understanding he was to be resident in the UK. He arrived, spent most of the day regulating and voicing. I am no technician, but he spent a lot of time on the hammers. Result: one much better sounding RX2. For free.

I am quite happy with the way Kawai in the UK supported my purchase.

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#1939303 - 08/08/12 11:43 AM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
albynism Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 321
I'm also thinking of replacing my 1995 G2. I live in Sydney and I went to the finalist concert for the recent SIPC. They had a shigeru, Yamaha and Hamburg Steinway on the stage (holy cow, the three pianos combined cost more than the apartment I live in!), and I remember out of the six finalists only one chose to play on the shigeru, but it was a really beautiful instrument. I think I liked the sound better than the Yamaha and Steinway they had on the stage. they recently were selling off the shigerus that were used in the practice room for the competition. It would have been a great buy because the pianos were only used for a week or so but I was too busy with my schedule to attend the auction. Gah!

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#1939337 - 08/08/12 12:46 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: chihuahua]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1622
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: chihuahua
I refer to Shigeru Kawai's website:

http://www.shigerukawai.com/features/mpa_visit.html

My friend lives in Singapore and owns a Shigeru Kawai SK3. Until today, there is no MPA visit from Kawai (despite the PROMISE from Kawai Japan Website). There's only the occasional tuning from the local dealer (no voicing/regulation) - which he has to pay for. So, when it comes to aftersales service in Singapore for Shigeru Kawai, it's as bare as it ever gets!

So much for the "One of our elite Master Piano Artisans will be sent from Japan to provide personalized care for your SHIGERU piano in the form of concert-level tuning, regulation and voicing" bullsh*t.

Im pretty sure I've read a number of times on this forum that Shigeru does not offer the MPA visit to every country, Singapore being one of them. Your friend's situation sounds to me like an issue between customer and dealer for not being clear. Either that or someone has made assumptions. I highly doubt that a company with such a reputation at stake as Kawai would be "bullsh$tting people" as you suggest.

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#1939405 - 08/08/12 03:10 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
From my own experience visiting a good number of factories in Germany and playing all kinds of high end pianos, the prep and set up has always been the single most important factor.

This is the first thing factory staff itself would point out sometimes discouraging to play certain pianos just fresh of the line.

To suggest that one single visit or application by one factory master tech will keep a piano at it's possible peak is not addressing the nature of the beast.

In fact, the higher the level of service work is, the more it demands to be done repeatedly on same piano.

It sure would be nice to compare notes after equal amount of work is done on a number of different pianos, however in the real world this does not seem to happen overly often.

Norbert



Edited by Norbert (08/08/12 03:10 PM)
_________________________
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Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1939417 - 08/08/12 03:36 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
Aaron Garner Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/24/12
Posts: 56
Loc: Sacramento, Ca
Maybe I'm way of base here, but I think this whole master technician deal is just a marketing tool and I'm guessing it's built in to the price. I have always used techs who are very well respected with years of experience working and rebuilding high end pianos and I've always gotten what I needed out of my instruments. Non of them were factory trained on a specific brand, but they had incredible ears and knowledge about pianos. Does my M & M not sound as good as it could because I didn't have a special factory technician work on it? I doubt it. Besides, sound and feel are very personal. Btw, just last week I played a Shigeru for the first time and fell in love with it. I wonder if the "master technician" already visited the store? Hmmm!
_________________________
2013 Mason and Hamlin BB
Full-time music professor (theory) and jazz pianist

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#1939446 - 08/08/12 04:21 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Aaron:

Feeling same here...

However, in many parts of the world, especially the Orient good techs or "master techs" are a hard commodity to come by.

In our neck of the world they are, as you had pointed out, "not"

In our Vancouver B.C. area alone there are a good number of them as are in all cosmopolitan areas of the U.S.

In Germany, they are 'run-of-the-mill' ["Meisters"] and 100% present at the ever-so-important "End-Kontrolle" of every single maker I know.

Building another castle perhaps would have more magic there...

Norbert wink


Edited by Norbert (08/08/12 10:17 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1939447 - 08/08/12 04:24 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: Aaron Garner]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi Aaron,

Sure, it's a marketing tool. But it is a very effective one. Kawai out Steinwayed, Steinway!

BTW - Does you piano melt in your mouth, and not in your hand?
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#1939479 - 08/08/12 05:27 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
Aaron Garner Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/24/12
Posts: 56
Loc: Sacramento, Ca
Points well taken. Speaking of Kawai out doing Steinway, they (a store in the Bay Area) had a Hamburg two pianos over from the Shigeru and although it was really nice, I might have chosen the Shigeru if I had been in the market. The Shigeru had an amazing action and a beautiful tone. I just got my M and H BB a couple of weeks ago, but if I had played this piano, I might have come up with the extra dough with or without a master technician from Japan.
_________________________
2013 Mason and Hamlin BB
Full-time music professor (theory) and jazz pianist

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#1939503 - 08/08/12 06:28 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1622
Loc: Toronto
If nothing less, what was very cool about the MPA visit I got was the fact that an obviously masterful technician who knew my brand of piano so well that he could build one from the ground up came into my home and spent upwards of 6 hours making sure that the instrument was perfect. Not only did he voice and regulate the Instrument, he did it to MY specific needs and preferences. Call it a gimmick if you like but I thought the whole experience was awesome.

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#1939528 - 08/08/12 07:17 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1530
Loc: Danville, California
Personally I think it is brilliant.

I have read other posts on here from Shigeru owners (e.g. a guy in Houston a couple years ago) that raved about the MPA and his results with their instrument.

Nobody else does it. I give Kawai a lot of credit.

Disclaimer: I love Shigerus. They are fabulous - IMHO

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#1939597 - 08/08/12 10:25 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: chihuahua]
Jay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 472
Loc: AUD
Originally Posted By: chihuahua
I refer to Shigeru Kawai's website:

http://www.shigerukawai.com/features/mpa_visit.html



I am sure the link you have there for USA and Canada, if you refer to shigeru dealers/contact. It must be a special arrangement made between USA/Canada/Japan only. I dont think I can find anything from Kawai Japan website saying MPA going to visit every Shigeru's owner(s).


Edited by Jay (08/08/12 10:27 PM)

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#1939604 - 08/08/12 10:41 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ec]
Gatsbee13 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 513
Loc: So Cal
anyone have a video or link to one of a kawai MPA in action?

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#1940369 - 08/10/12 02:54 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ando]
Tribbs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/12
Posts: 43
Loc: Madtown
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Tribbs
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Tribbs
It's simple. They call it supply and demand.
You put your best people where there is the most demand.


Well, either they are flying in from Japan or they aren't. If they aren't they could be considered to be working in America. That's not the myth they are pushing. They are saying that they fly in MPAs specifically to do Shigeru services - whether it's in the US or Australia - presumably they work at the factory when they aren't being called out. If that's the case, they can fly them anywhere. If they aren't factory MPAs coming from Japan, they are just techs like anywhere else.

By the way, don't give me that "way of the world" tone. I didn't come down in the last shower and I don't need your life-lessons. I am expressing an opinion that I don't like deceptive conduct, not that I don't understand what drives such conduct. Of course it's profit driven - no surprise there.

Quote:
About how many genuine Japan factory Shigeru MPAs do you think exist?
I couldn't be less interested. I only care about what they promise and whether they deliver.


You don't need an MPA.
You need a bartender.


I've never noticed you before, but a quick scan of your posts reveals you as a Shigeru owner (apologist). That explains your defensive attitude... Shigerus are ok, lying Kawai dealers, not so good.


I explain to you some economic facts and you call me an apologist? LMFAO!!! What are you smoking?
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#1940378 - 08/10/12 03:06 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: Tribbs]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3588
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Tribbs
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Tribbs
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Tribbs
It's simple. They call it supply and demand.
You put your best people where there is the most demand.


Well, either they are flying in from Japan or they aren't. If they aren't they could be considered to be working in America. That's not the myth they are pushing. They are saying that they fly in MPAs specifically to do Shigeru services - whether it's in the US or Australia - presumably they work at the factory when they aren't being called out. If that's the case, they can fly them anywhere. If they aren't factory MPAs coming from Japan, they are just techs like anywhere else.

By the way, don't give me that "way of the world" tone. I didn't come down in the last shower and I don't need your life-lessons. I am expressing an opinion that I don't like deceptive conduct, not that I don't understand what drives such conduct. Of course it's profit driven - no surprise there.

Quote:
About how many genuine Japan factory Shigeru MPAs do you think exist?
I couldn't be less interested. I only care about what they promise and whether they deliver.


You don't need an MPA.
You need a bartender.


I've never noticed you before, but a quick scan of your posts reveals you as a Shigeru owner (apologist). That explains your defensive attitude... Shigerus are ok, lying Kawai dealers, not so good.


I explain to you some economic facts and you call me an apologist? LMFAO!!! What are you smoking?


Apologist, yes. You make excuses for something based on your own bias. I'll pass on your explanation of "economic facts" because I don't need it and it's too simplistic. Can't you make your point without aggressive hyperbole?

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#1941983 - 08/13/12 02:01 PM Re: Yamaha vs. Shigeru and new vs. pre-owned ? [Re: ando]
Tribbs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/12
Posts: 43
Loc: Madtown
Let me try to make this very simple for you.

You own a handful of bars around the city.

Q) Where is it prudent to employ your best bartender(s)?

A) At the bar that generates the largest revenue.

Nothing apologetic about that fact.

Will you be having the usual? Have a nice day!
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