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Joined: Aug 2011
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I would venture a guess that 90 % or more, of the people in here, are not anywhere near, considered professional pianists. Actually I think it's more like about 99.5% are not professional pianists. If PW has 50,000 members that would mean 250 are professional pianists, and even that is way too high in my estinmate. I don't agree. If by definition a professional pianist is one who makes their living playing the piano, then I think we likely have more than 250. For every Jeffrey Biegel or Steve Barta or Robin Meloy Goldsby member there are 20 or 30 members who aren't as high profile, but still make a living playing the piano. And in addition to them there are tons of members who play very well, but either don't make their living at it, or only play out part time. I meet professional pianist all across the country (and during our European Piano Tour last year, across Europe) who belong to the forums. They frequently tell me they don't often participate, but they do watch and read the forums, and they are members. If you include piano teachers who don't give don't give concerts for pay I'd agree, but if one is talking about pianists who get paid for performing I'm not convinced. Maybe if you include people a handful of posts. Not sure it matters one way or the other. I think all (or at least 99.99%) of the people here are here because we love pianos and the beautiful sounds that are capable of making. What keeps me going is the tag line someone here has. I think it says "there are no wrong notes.". Now if that member would just add "Proper rhythm does not matter.". I would be satisfied. Buy the best you can afford! Jonathan
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Wow, this thread has taken some strange twists and turns… One thing is for sure, based on the title of this thread, a lot of pianos are getting old and warn out… I know I play the heck out of my pianos every chance I get. And, I never hit a wrong note (theoretically speaking). Rick
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Me neither Rick and I NEVER put my tuning hammer on the wrong tuning pin either! haha. I have swamp land for someone, for sale, if you're interested....
Jerry Groot RPT Piano Technicians Guild Grand Rapids, Michigan www.grootpiano.comWe love to play BF2.
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... I have never, ever, cared how "refined" someone looks owning a Bosendorfer Imperial. Sit down and play it.. then we'll talk. I feel that way too. If you own a piano worth $100,000 and can't play more than chopsticks... it's embarrassing. Unless perhaps that person hosts piano-nite every month at their house and they have that thing being used fairly regularly. I doubt it's embarrassing to many of the people you describe nor should it be. There's nothing wrong with owning even the most expensive piano just for its appearance or the prestige or for the sound even if one is a beginner. I do think it's a shame that some people can't afford the piano they'd like to have. But this is far different from thinking that someone who can afford an expensive piano and buys one for whatever reason should be criticized. At what skill level do you think owning an expensive piano, if one can afford it, becomes acceptable? If one can't play a note one can always have a player system installed. Posts like the ones I quoted above usually make me think the poster is just angry they can't afford something. Or envious. If one can afford any material item and doing so doesn't hurt anyone, I see no problem. I must say, sometimes we agree in thought, and sometimes we do not. This is one of the times we do not. However, it is solely with your last line that I will concern myself, since I believe the rest of what you said is a fairly stated opinion, and I happen to be able to agree with much of what you said prior to your last paragraph. Now, to respond to that last statement, which I do not agree with: At what point does being able to afford more and more expensive things go from simply being able to afford more and more expensive things to actually hurting the people who cannot afford those (and other) things? Certainly, the $40-50M spent on Steinway pianos last year could not have been used for anything better. Would I be correct in thinking that, according to the logic/argument presented in your post? If that is not the case, I would be happy to hear an amendment to your thoughts. But if that actually is the case, please allow me to refute: *The World Health Organization estimates that 6 million children die of hunger every year.* But, nope, use that combined $50M (spent on Steinway's alone) to buy a nice piece of furniture instead. By that reasoning no one should spend money on any item usually bought even by the middle class. No one should buy a house over 1000 square feet. In fact no pianos should be purchased by anyone because the money used to purchase less expensive pianos is much more than the money used to buy Steinways. Do you think everyone should donate all their earnings above 40K(or some other figure)to charity? I don't agree with the statement. I was simply trying to follow your logic when you said those kinds of purchases don't hurt anyone..
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
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Joined: Aug 2011
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I'm glad the supply of broken pianos is shrinking. For everyone who looks at the wood, I'll admit that the interior side of the wood pieces are often beautiful, but brand new furniture-quality wood can be bought, shipped, and worked into a useful shape much cheaper than old piano wood can be. The old "if they really want to, they can pull themselves up by the bootstraps" argument falls apart. Certainly a select few may do that, but most won't. If everyone had that kind of dedication, the world would be full of people who are great at whatever random hobby they tried first, and no time to do anything else. Also, it's a lot easier to bootstrap yourself if you have encouragement. I'd bet that almost every sports star would say that their agent, friends and family have been critical for their success. Keep in mind that an acceptable-enough digital piano can be bought for less than the cost of transport and 1 tune of an old acoustic.
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Joined: Mar 2012
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This thread has taken a turn for what , I'm not sure of. Years ago a Steinway salesperson told me that he thought almost 90% of their pianos were bought for the furniture and status. I'm not sure that I believe that figure. I bought a used Yamaha and was not planning to do so. I just got a deal. I don't mean to intimidate, but I have spent more on Public broadcasting donations and charities in a year than my piano cost. I am a very frugal shopper just because I enjoy the sport. I don't mind old pianos being recycled. When I was a young man, I wished I could afford a used console organ, but now I know that if I had purchased one, I wouldn't have been happy for long. The same with pianos. Fine quality begats interest. Poor quality brings the opposite. Old, worn out pianos may, perhaps, cause young players to lose interest in the hobby/profession. BTW, I am a professional musician, this only means that I make money from my ability, It doesn't mean that I'm a virtuoso!
Last edited by thetandyman; 08/02/12 09:29 PM.
Marriage is like a card game, you start with two hearts and a diamond, later you wish you had a club and a spade! Yamaha G7 Yamaha CVP75 digital, Allen 3500 theater organ
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Years ago a Steinway salesperson told me that he thought almost 90% of their pianos were bought for the furniture and status. I'm not sure that I believe that figure. It's easy to believe. Sort of like how probably 90%+ of all supercars never see a track, and are for status.
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I couldn't watch the video and cringed trying to read the NYT article. I know pianos are inanimate objects but it's hard to see, watch or think about pianos that were once loved, saved for, and brought music or the study of music into a family's home being tossed off a truck, sledgehammered, or cut up with an ax.
Many old pianos can't be salvaged or saved and are considered worthless, but to see them just dumped in a landfill seems really wasteful and environmentally irresponsible. In fact, I was glad to hear that the piano that I traded-in was sold to a new owner. I traded in my piano to buy a new one twice. I don't think I could dump any piano that I regularly played or enjoyed.
J & J Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty Casio Privia P230 At least half the waiters in Nashville play better than I
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I think if one heard the sound of the pianos and realized many/most couldn't be salvaged at any reasonable cost the unpleasantness of seeing them dumped would be far less.
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I think if one heard the sound of the pianos and realized many/most couldn't be salvaged at any reasonable cost the unpleasantness of seeing them dumped would be far less.
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People may be surprised to learn that there actually is a very lucrative, if "quiet" market out there restoring and shipping golden oldies to China.
Norbert
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double post
Last edited by Norbert; 08/03/12 03:29 PM.
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Norbert said: People may be surprised to learn that there actually is a very lucrative, if "quiet" market out there restoring and shipping golden oldies to China. Interesting. China pumps out loads and loads of new pianos, but discerning consumers there want restored vintage pianos from the Western world? What does that imply? It's cheaper to restore and ship a vintage piano than to buy new (unlikely) The restored vintage piano is a better piano than the typical new one being made today (quite probable)
Colin Dunn
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Sorry, double post
Last edited by Colin Dunn; 08/03/12 03:50 PM.
Colin Dunn
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Looks like everyone is doing a double post today. Looks like everyone is doing a double post today.
Jerry Groot RPT Piano Technicians Guild Grand Rapids, Michigan www.grootpiano.comWe love to play BF2.
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Looks like everyone is doing a double post today. Looks like everyone is doing a double post today. So, I'm just be the smarty pantz giggling ME!
Jerry Groot RPT Piano Technicians Guild Grand Rapids, Michigan www.grootpiano.comWe love to play BF2.
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Joined: May 2001
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Yeah seeing many double posts, and I keep getting:
UBB Message We encountered a problem. The reason reported was Database error only visible to forum administrators Please click back to return to the previous page.
When trying to click on a thread title that should take me to the latest post that I haven't read yet.
edit: I got that message upon making this post too.
Oh ... #UNREAD is trying to take me to a post that seems to be invisible to me in the thread. This is like that one thread that had 11 replies, but only the original post was visible.
Last edited by xorbe; 08/03/12 07:43 PM.
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There's a clock store in our area which sells old clocks for small fortunes - all going to Chinese living in same town. Yes, it's a contradiction of sorts. In a way it's very sad but such is life. Perhaps some of the Chinese are taking these oldies apart and building some of their new pianos same/similar way. O.K. I know I'm pushing things.... Norbert
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I think if one heard the sound of the pianos and realized many/most couldn't be salvaged at any reasonable cost the unpleasantness of seeing them dumped would be far less. Exactly.
Blues and Boogie-Woogie piano teacher.
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
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