Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#1940389 - 08/10/12 03:31 PM What Is Going On in Piano Forum?
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Wow!

It seems that this forum has been infected with the same malady which is common in the Tuner/Tech forum.

Bickering - Sniping - Rudness - Cheap Shots - Diarrhea of the Mouth - One Upmanship - Being an Authority on Everything - Vendettas

Hey Gang - Let's consider using some maners and being more civil.

When you feel the need to tighten the laces on your boxing gloves, take it into a PM sparring ring.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

#1940401 - 08/10/12 03:53 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1523
Loc: Danville, California
Marty

Now I see why there are so many wars going back in history.

Human beings tend to be aggressive, even on a forum like this.

As Charlie Brown says "Good grief"

Top
#1940426 - 08/10/12 04:32 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I agree Marty. I've taken a step back a little bit not posting as much due to that and to the constant blathering, (diarrhea of the mouth-love that one) 12 page long winded useless answers that so many post over you know where along with so many of these same ones having to be right, gets awfully tiring too. smile
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1940428 - 08/10/12 04:38 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10349
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
See what happens when I stop posting regularly! War breaks out.

BTW, are you referring to certain specific threads?
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

Top
#1940454 - 08/10/12 05:33 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2427
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
I say let the opinions fly.

Most of the population of the world has no idea that these issues even exist, let alone that anyone feels passionately or even gives a hoot about this stuff. At least here people can engage.

Imagine, two strangers at a bus stop. One tries to strike up a conversation about the finer points of piano tuning or the superiority of one piano over another...

Keep it here so we don't all end up in the looney bin!

Still I'm with you that there is no need to be a complete jerk about it.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#1940459 - 08/10/12 05:39 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Piano*Dad]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2427
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad


BTW, are you referring to certain specific threads?


It has to be that What's in a Name thread. With 124 posts it is the only one long enough to hold much of a fight!
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#1940472 - 08/10/12 05:58 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Johnkie Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 688
Loc: England
Count me in too guys ..... I've also noticed a marked escalation of vacuous garbage and urine extraction!

Just waiting for 50 pages of debate about the use of 10mm Teflon coated corrugated cardboard being used in the design of a electrically heated never going out of tune SteinBechDorfer.

thumb wow

[/i]before anyone takes umbridge ..... this is meant to be tongue in cheek, and not meant in anyway to be offensive wink [i]
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

Top
#1940479 - 08/10/12 06:18 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Gatsbee13 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 498
Loc: So Cal
I love it

Top
#1940529 - 08/10/12 07:46 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Eric Gloo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1226
Loc: Richfield Springs, New York
I haven't noticed any bickering, rudeness or etc. Of course, I only read the important threads, like this one. cool
_________________________
Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York

Top
#1940534 - 08/10/12 08:05 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Karl Watson Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 291
Well, I've certainly limited (read: mostly stopped) my contributions to the forum. Lacking Jerry's wonderful sense of humour, I've actually been shocked by some of the replies made to my innocent bits.

In fact, I'm really grateful for Marty's gracious defence in a couple of instances.

I've noticed that, with the exception of one, semi-professional contributor, the most knowledgeable amongst us are invariably the most civil and tolerant.

Top
#1940541 - 08/10/12 08:13 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I know one thing................................... If you're perfect like some of us are, we never have to worry about being wrong about anything at all cause we "aint!!" ooooo, was I just wrong???
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1940543 - 08/10/12 08:14 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
j&j Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 444
Loc: Southwest
Only a true piano nerd can get into a heated Forum discussion about piano facts, piano brands, and opinions about piano dealers. I generally just skip to another thread if I think I recognize "diarrhea of the mouth". Unfortunately, I can't do that at long-winded meetings at work! Marty is right, if we expect to get more piano nerd converts, we should keep it civil.
_________________________
J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working." Pablo Picasso

Top
#1940544 - 08/10/12 08:14 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
thetandyman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 441
Loc: Indiana
Rudeness? AW shut up, the bunch of you!! LOL, Actually I have taken a temporary hiatus from posting due to the fact that I don't know anything else. I've run out of opinions due to my limited knowledge. But, I'll be back, (beware!) I'm always lurking in the shadows.
_________________________
Marriage is like a card game, you start with two hearts and a diamond, later you wish you had a club and a spade!
Yamaha G7 Yamaha CVP75 digital, Allen 3500 theater organ

Top
#1940575 - 08/10/12 08:54 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2427
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Aw come on; you civilized people need to post MORE in order to keep the ratios in check!

Pretty please?


Edited by malkin (08/10/12 08:55 PM)
Edit Reason: increasing civility factor!
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

Top
#1940618 - 08/10/12 10:45 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8422
Loc: Georgia, USA
I’ve always believed there is something to the old saying, guilt by association… who we hang out with says something about us, to a certain extent. All of us here have a few things in common, most importantly a love and appreciation for pianos, music, and the arts. We also have differences among us…

There are some very bight, intelligent and knowledgeable folks here. I have learned so much about pianos (and people smile ) since I have been a member here that sometimes it goes to my head and I think I really know something about pianos (and people); but in reality, I know that I’ve only scratched the surface.

Yes, at times rudeness does occur among members. Yes, sometimes snipping and bickering does occur. I don’t like to see it, but it does happen. I do not think it is necessary for healthy debate. As a moderator, I’ve matured a bit and though I don’t like to see the rudeness and bickering, I know it can be somewhat of a byproduct of debate and argument. Not that I condone rudeness or hatefulness in any way, shape, form or fashion.

Fact is, I’ve gotten my feathers ruffled here a time or two and maybe showed a less polite side of me. It happens to us all. I prefer to show my best side and my best manners. I wrote a song once entitled "you bring out the best in me" smile . I prefer to show by best side all the time. I suppose we all show our true colors from time to time (some more than others smile ).

However, I think most of us here have integrity and can argue and debate without getting nasty.

All in all, the Piano World forums are a great place to hang out… and, guilt by association is not a bad thing on Piano World! smile

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
#1940620 - 08/10/12 10:51 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1906
Loc: Philadelphia area
Waddayamean, same malady as the tuner/tech forum? We are civil gentlemen and ladies, compared to the heated rancorous sentiments that are slung around this Piano Forum.

Top
#1940686 - 08/11/12 03:05 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Dave B]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
I'm on a Pro Audio/sound forum that doesn't allow postings by anyone not using their full name. No handles, nicknames or anonymous posters.

It seems to lessen the hit & run anonymous 20 somethings and other children that imo have turned the social media internet into a nightmare.

I don't know if this would have an effect here but generally people seem more civil and mature (certainly there) when they're not hiding behind some anonymous handle.

Of course what's to stop someone from posting under the name of John Lennon or Igor Stravinsky... wink

Just a thought.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP5, CP4, Nord Piano 2
RCF TT08A & TT22A speakers


Top
#1940750 - 08/11/12 08:30 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10349
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Dave,

Loss of anonymity would indeed reduce drive-by trolling. But you have been here long enough to remember lots of heated threads where the featured players were the long time regulars. smile
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

Top
#1940760 - 08/11/12 09:36 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
just don't argue ridiculously..


easy
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

Top
#1940761 - 08/11/12 09:51 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Pianolance Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 1192
Loc: Nashville, TN
I'm all for lively debate, challenges of someones opinion, correcting errors in posts, etc. What I don't like is the personal nature of attacks. Just keep it about pianos and not about personal attacks and we will all be fine. Lively debate, sure, personal attacks are over the line. Typed communication in general is inferior to face to face conversation because you can't see the non-verbal ques or facial expression. When you write a response your intended tone could be different than you come across just because of the limited nature of the written word as opposed to face to face communication. Keep this in mind when you post, re-read your posts before you actually post them and try to see your post through the other readers eyes. If it's personal - edit, edit, edit until it's not.


Edited by Pianolance (08/11/12 09:57 AM)
_________________________
Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.

Top
#1940762 - 08/11/12 09:56 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Dave Ferris,

I could not agree with something more than that statement. Other than the one where I said I wAs PErfect.... smile That would indeed eliminate trolling. I've been in here about 6 years now and the worst posts have come from people with screwy names that pop in, post something and pop out again just to watch what is said after that. Wish Frank would implement that one.

Jerry, not my real name in a fake world. haha
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1940774 - 08/11/12 10:21 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8422
Loc: Georgia, USA
Good point about using our real names... Of course, in some cases, even those who use their real names can get rather nasty at times. And, it is a nice option to be anonymous here if we choose.

Okay, my real name is Ricky Henson... no kin to Jim Henson, creator of the Muppets (though I wish I were smile ).

Why I came up with a silly forum name like Rickster when I first joined Piano World I'll never know. When I took Spanish in high school my class name was Ricardo; maybe I should have went with Ricardo or perhaps Rikki Tikki Tavi. smile

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
#1940799 - 08/11/12 11:13 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Mike Carr Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 714
Loc: BANNED
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Wow!

It seems that this forum has been infected with the same malady which is common in the Tuner/Tech forum.

Bickering - Sniping - Rudness - Cheap Shots - Diarrhea of the Mouth - One Upmanship - Being an Authority on Everything - Vendettas
Hey Gang - Let's consider using some maners and being more civil.

When you feel the need to tighten the laces on your boxing gloves, take it into a PM sparring ring.



Gosh, Marty, that sounds like a lotta fun. Where do I sign up?

Aren't these moaning mona or in this case moaning marty threads really from people who can’t stand to be disagreed with?

They try to cover it up with calls for civility, etc, but at the end of the day they’re pretty much in love with their own opinions and thoughts and those of their buddies and by god they’re just damn sick and tired of anyone disagreeing with them.


Mike
_________________________
smoke 'em if you got 'em

Top
#1940812 - 08/11/12 11:48 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Dave Ferris]
PaintedPostDave Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 524
Loc: Upstate New York
In response to the Dave Ferris post, my local on-line newspaper converted from allowing anonymous or pseudonym posts to requiring posters to use their facebook names. The resulting change in the quality of the posting was dramatic (and positive). I would like to see that on PW. shocked

Dave Koenig
_________________________
Dave Koenig
Yamaha M1A console
1927 Knabe 7' 8" grand
https://sites.google.com/site/analysisofsoundsandvibrations/

Top
#1940816 - 08/11/12 11:58 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Mike Carr]
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9143
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted By: Mike Carr
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Wow!

It seems that this forum has been infected with the same malady which is common in the Tuner/Tech forum.

Bickering - Sniping - Rudness - Cheap Shots - Diarrhea of the Mouth - One Upmanship - Being an Authority on Everything - Vendettas
Hey Gang - Let's consider using some maners and being more civil.

When you feel the need to tighten the laces on your boxing gloves, take it into a PM sparring ring.



Gosh, Marty, that sounds like a lotta fun. Where do I sign up?

Aren't these moaning mona or in this case moaning marty threads really from people who can’t stand to be disagreed with?

They try to cover it up with calls for civility, etc, but at the end of the day they’re pretty much in love with their own opinions and thoughts and those of their buddies and by god they’re just damn sick and tired of anyone disagreeing with them.


Mike


Honestly Mike you cannot be serious. I can count less than 10 active members (people who have posted over time) since I have became a member of PW (in 1998) that have been rebuked by the owner of the site himself. Remember this?

Originally Posted By: Frank Baxter
Mike,

If you were trying to derail this thread with your usual ranting, proffered as though they were expert advice and not just the personal opinions of someone who manages to find something negative in just about any post... you've succeeded. Congratulations, I'm locking this thread.

I'm tired of listening to you whine when you don't agree with someone on the forums, which seems to be most of the time. You are in my house when you are here, show some respect.

Consider that a warning, and know that I don't give multiple warnings.


If you remember I coaxed Frank into NOT banning you around that time Mike. There are moments that I regret that action.

The problem here is that sometimes you have good advice and sometimes you have good insight, but it is so filled with vitriol, bitterness, conspiracy theory, and suspicion (not just sometimes, but consistently). You tend to blur your perspective with unnecessary insults, inaccurate characterizations, and plain negativity that it is often difficult to get to any meat in your posts.

Mike, I have to say clearly that in this thread... and in many others... you are the problem.

I await your predictable insults and vitriol.
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

Top
#1940822 - 08/11/12 12:19 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Rich Galassini]
Mike Carr Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 714
Loc: BANNED


Quote:
If you remember I coaxed Frank into NOT banning you around that time Mike. There are moments that I regret that action.



Aw, shucks, Rich, I had no idea. I didn't know you cared. It's truly humbling to have a giant of the piano industry in my corner. I think I'm going to cry. Is lunch still on?

Mike
_________________________
smoke 'em if you got 'em

Top
#1940823 - 08/11/12 12:20 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Rich Galassini]
Guapo Gabacho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 430
Loc: Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini
I await your predictable insults and vitriol.


I enjoy Mark's brand of commentary. He doesn't make me cry... how about you?
_________________________
'86 Baldwin SF-10

Top
#1940825 - 08/11/12 12:27 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Guapo Gabacho]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10452
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: Guapo Gabacho
Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini
I await your predictable insults and vitriol.


I enjoy Mark's brand of commentary. He doesn't make me cry... how about you?


Birds of a feather...


Rich, I couldn't agree with you more.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

Top
#1940829 - 08/11/12 12:32 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Steve Cohen]
Guapo Gabacho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 430
Loc: Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
Birds of a feather...




That's us I guess, not here for the profit it can generate.
_________________________
'86 Baldwin SF-10

Top
#1940839 - 08/11/12 12:59 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Guapo Gabacho]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Guapo Gabacho
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
Birds of a feather...




That's us I guess, not here for the profit it can generate.


I rest my case.

Here is a prime example of the rudness and sarchasm which people seem to enjoy. And, I'm certainly not referring to Steve or Rich.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#1940844 - 08/11/12 01:10 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Mike Carr]
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9143
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted By: Mike Carr


Quote:
If you remember I coaxed Frank into NOT banning you around that time Mike. There are moments that I regret that action.



Aw, shucks, Rich, I had no idea. I didn't know you cared. It's truly humbling to have a giant of the piano industry in my corner. I think I'm going to cry. Is lunch still on?

Mike


Actually Mike, my memory is not what it used to be. I checked my old PM's and I coaxed Frank and the mods. to not ban "TheSockPuppet", although I would have done the same for you. Your posts DO usually have good content.

Also, I would still enjoy meeting you for lunch. In my experience when people are face to face and speak directly many things are communicated differently. Even if you communicated in the same style it would be different in person. I think I would get along with you jst fine in person.

If you are ever in the Philly area, I would love to treat you to lunch. If I am ever in your neighborhood, I hope you would extend that courtesy to me there as well.
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

Top
#1940855 - 08/11/12 01:40 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Guapo Gabacho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 430
Loc: Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Well, I said I enjoy Mark and his far out opinions, and was attacked. If you don't like my posts dude, don't read them.
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Guapo Gabacho
Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
Birds of a feather...




That's us I guess, not here for the profit it can generate.


I rest my case.

Here is a prime example of the rudness and sarchasm which people seem to enjoy. And, I'm certainly not referring to Steve or Rich.


Well, I said I enjoy Mark and his far out opinions and was attacked. If you don't like my posts dude, don't read them.
_________________________
'86 Baldwin SF-10

Top
#1940867 - 08/11/12 02:12 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8422
Loc: Georgia, USA
Guapo, it's Mike and not Mark... unless you know something we don’t.

I think Mike Carr knows he's on thin ice here with Frank. Maybe he enjoys living on the edge, I don't know. I too enjoy his post most of time, when he is not after his opponent with a vengeance. It is not about disagreeing here, it is how we express ourselves when we disagree… I also enjoy reading his stories when he’s in a good mood and in the mood to write. He has his strengths and weaknesses, just like the rest of us.

I suggest everyone go ahead and express themselves and get it out of your system… we are a community here, a family, if you will, and Frank is like the head of our household... this is his forum. From time to time, even family members get irritated and aggravated at each other, but we should still respect each other.

Mike, you are not banned yet, and like Rich, I’d hate to see that happen. Only you can avoid that action…

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
#1940869 - 08/11/12 02:18 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Guapo Gabacho Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 430
Loc: Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Rickster, sorry for the name mistake and no I do not know the gentleman. It just racks my rectum to be jumped by the dealer clique for simply expressing my opinion, one without any snarking.


Edited by Guapo Gabacho (08/11/12 02:20 PM)
_________________________
'86 Baldwin SF-10

Top
#1940894 - 08/11/12 03:33 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Guapo Gabacho]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Guapo Gabacho
Well, I said I enjoy Mark and his far out opinions and was attacked. If you don't like my posts dude, don't read them.


If you don't like my thread dude, don't read it!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#1940901 - 08/11/12 03:52 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
"That's the second time you hit me dude",

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6lABHATFHw&feature=related

Top
#1940918 - 08/11/12 04:35 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Bob Newbie]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Years ago after a recital of Chopin Etudes at the Dorothy Chandler, I was able to shake Maurizio Pollini's hand after he came from the backstage area to greet his admirers.

I said , "hey nice job on the tudes dude " ! Boy did he give me a strange look. I thought, what's up with that ? confused
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP5, CP4, Nord Piano 2
RCF TT08A & TT22A speakers


Top
#1940980 - 08/11/12 06:47 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: PaintedPostDave]
David-G Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: London
There is never any need to be impolite, even when using pseudonyms on an internet forum.

Originally Posted By: PaintedPostDave
In response to the Dave Ferris post, my local on-line newspaper converted from allowing anonymous or pseudonym posts to requiring posters to use their facebook names. The resulting change in the quality of the posting was dramatic (and positive). I would like to see that on PW. shocked

Dave Koenig

Some of us are not on Facebook!

Top
#1940981 - 08/11/12 06:47 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Rickster]
piano joy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 807
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Guapo, it's Mike and not Mark... unless you know something we don’t.

I think Mike Carr knows he's on thin ice here with Frank. Maybe he enjoys living on the edge, I don't know. I too enjoy his post most of time, when he is not after his opponent with a vengeance. It is not about disagreeing here, it is how we express ourselves when we disagree… I also enjoy reading his stories when he’s in a good mood and in the mood to write. He has his strengths and weaknesses, just like the rest of us.

I suggest everyone go ahead and express themselves and get it out of your system… we are a community here, a family, if you will, and Frank is like the head of our household... this is his forum. From time to time, even family members get irritated and aggravated at each other, but we should still respect each other.

Mike, you are not banned yet, and like Rich, I’d hate to see that happen. Only you can avoid that action…

Rick


Ok, I just have to get this out! Frank is head of the household (you said, Rick!) and he has never, EVER given me an allowance! And, that is a fact, NOT an opinion .

There, I feel better.
_________________________
I don't care too much for money. For money can't buy me love.
-the Beatles




Top
#1940989 - 08/11/12 06:55 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I've found that to be true too, greeting in person verses anonymous or even just on the net. In person, people are always nicer, well, most people anyway... smile
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1940997 - 08/11/12 07:07 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2379
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Put me in the Rich/Steve column.

When I first came to PW, the Ellenburg/Wil$on wars were just heating up on the PF. They were ugly, but not nearly as snide and vile as the turds being lobbed these days.

You guys should take Rich up on lunch. If you met him IRL and had any kind of open mind, you'd see just how wrong you are about him. And Steve Cohen, for that matter.

As for aliases, I might cry if you made me give up mine...
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

Top
#1940999 - 08/11/12 07:09 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2379
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
I've found that to be true too, greeting in person verses anonymous or even just on the net. In person, people are always nicer, well, most people anyway... smile


There is another element involved. When you're face to face with someone, you get the context of their physical selves, not just their words, and that tends to mitigate any extreme interpretation of what they might say, or what their motives in life are.
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

Top
#1941005 - 08/11/12 07:20 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
PaintedPostDave Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 524
Loc: Upstate New York
Case rested, case proved. Next case...

Dave Koenig
_________________________
Dave Koenig
Yamaha M1A console
1927 Knabe 7' 8" grand
https://sites.google.com/site/analysisofsoundsandvibrations/

Top
#1941016 - 08/11/12 07:39 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Mike Carr]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7148
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Mike Carr


Aren't these moaning mona or in this case moaning marty threads really from people who can’t stand to be disagreed with?

They try to cover it up with calls for civility, etc, but at the end of the day they’re pretty much in love with their own opinions and thoughts and those of their buddies and by god they’re just damn sick and tired of anyone disagreeing with them.


Mike


These aren't the words I'd choose to describe it, but I see some truth in what's being expressed in that quote.

To me, (and while this is a very divergent opinion it is an honest opinion) what's going on here is an inevitable clash of a supposedly fact-based forum with the structure of a social medium.

Many people join social media wishing to belong. They sense value in belonging. They befriend those of like mind or disposition both openly in posts that broadcast private chortles and in penned-to-please private messages. Often they come to regard certain other medium mebers as friends based solely on a courtship of easy words. Conversely, they come to regard certain others as mean-spirited enemies or personal adversaries with no real basis to support that feeling other than a sharp difference of opinion or a lack of trust that someone is in their corner.

There's also a desire to make the 'community' conform to one's individual expectations of structure, tone, and mood so that the sought-after feeling of belonging seems more worthwhile. Hence, Rick's "We're a family". or "We're all addicted" and Marty's "Hey Gang".

Family is family. Substituting a cyber-form for a family is a symptom of a loneliness that can lead to needless personal disappointment and emotional distress -- Gee, I thought we were buddies. Some industry members join the cultivation of click to clique friendships because it costs nothing and it may yield dividends to their real reason for being in the medium. Some industry folks will even join in the demonization of certain others who have a habit of getting in the way of things, but the smarter ones will resist the urge and foster and image of patience and tolerance.

There is no doubt that certain members here relish the opportunity to talk about other members rather than talk about pianos knowledge or the piano industry. The same names hop aboard these navel-gazing threads whenever they pop up. Usually somewhere along the line there's a cry for real name disclosure, the assumption being that evil motives lie behind avatars rather than a simple wish for privacy. Those who find value in broadcasting their names and links for personal or business reasons challenge others to stop being cowards and come out of hiding. It's happened again again over months and years here and involves heaping portions of hypocrisy.

All of this was pre-ordained by Marshall McLuhan decades ago when he reached the conclusion that the way society was headed even then, the medium itself would ultimately become the message and the bare factual truth or falsehood of the message would become irrelevant. This is why the leading product of American industry is litigation and why a Facebook founder can be a billionaire.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#1941030 - 08/11/12 08:03 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8422
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: turandot
There's also a desire to make the 'community' conform to one's individual expectations of structure, tone, and mood so that the sought-after feeling of belonging seems more worthwhile. Hence, Rick's "We're a family". or "We're all addicted" and Marty's "Hey Gang".

Family is family. Substituting a cyber-form for a family is a symptom of a loneliness that can lead to needless personal disappointment and emotional distress -- Gee, I thought we were buddies.

When I said this forum was LIKE a community, or LIKE a family, if you will, I meant it in the sense that we as forum members respect each other and do not mistreat each other with harsh and hateful words, personal attacks and innuendo.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
#1941041 - 08/11/12 08:31 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10349
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Originally Posted By: OperaTenor
When I first came to PW, the Ellenburg/Wil$on wars were just heating up on the PF. They were ugly, but not nearly as snide and vile as the turds being lobbed these days.


Rose colored glasses, methinks.

Nothing in the turd-laden threads of today quite compares to the thousands of dollars lost by the duped consumers of that episode. And the language of those threads was very personal and vituperative.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

Top
#1941043 - 08/11/12 08:37 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10349
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Originally Posted By: Turandot
Many people join social media wishing to belong. They sense value in belonging. They befriend those of like mind or disposition both openly in posts that broadcast private chortles and in penned-to-please private messages. Often they come to regard certain other medium members as friends based solely on a courtship of easy words. Conversely, they come to regard certain others as mean-spirited enemies or personal adversaries with no real basis to support that feeling other than a sharp difference of opinion or a lack of trust that someone is in their corner.


Lot of truth in there. This can also be true in face-to-face social encounters, but the web environment seems to be a hot house version of life in which superficial differences of opinion can create ugly arguments without the normal restraints that moderate peoples' anger in real life.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

Top
#1941044 - 08/11/12 08:47 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8422
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Lot of truth in there. This can also be true in face-to-face social encounters, but the web environment seems to be a hot house version of life in which superficial differences of opinion can create ugly arguments without the normal restraints that moderate peoples' anger in real life.

Lot of truth there too, Piano*Dad... and, something we all need to be reminded of on occasion. smile

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
#1941152 - 08/12/12 12:51 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Rickster]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2280
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: Rickster

When I said this forum was LIKE a community, or LIKE a family, if you will, I meant it in the sense that we as forum members respect each other and do not mistreat each other with harsh and hateful words, personal attacks and innuendo.


Wow, Rickster, you must come from a really nice family! :-)
_________________________
Gary Schenk

Top
#1941166 - 08/12/12 01:29 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
John Pels Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 1258
Loc: Tomball, Texas
The quick answer to the original question is that there isn't anything more or less than usual going on in Piano Forum. You still have dealers promoting their wares, some with more subtlety than others. You still have basically the same questions asked about the usual new pianos, Steinway rebuilds, if I have however many dollars, what should I buy, yadda yadda yadda. Then you have responses offered varying and depending on any given contributor's backround. There are maybe a half-dozen folks that I would trust to spend my money if asked what piano to buy, just as there were years ago when I joined the forum.

Family?? If I considered the nameless faceless hordes anything relating to a family, I think I'd take a walk in the woods. REALLY?? You can't be serious! If I thought of anyone approaching family status, you'd hear from me by phone or at least a personal email. I really feel sorry for anyone that views social networking as anything other than total balderdash as regards personal relationships. For what it's worth, EVERYONE I routinely communicate with feels exactly the same way. Even my kids (they are in their 20's) are becoming ever more circumspect about social media.

Turandot and I don't always agree but his recent tome is spot on. Congrats William!

Top
#1941175 - 08/12/12 01:52 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Piano*Dad]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2379
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Originally Posted By: OperaTenor
When I first came to PW, the Ellenburg/Wil$on wars were just heating up on the PF. They were ugly, but not nearly as snide and vile as the turds being lobbed these days.


Rose colored glasses, methinks.

Nothing in the turd-laden threads of today quite compares to the thousands of dollars lost by the duped consumers of that episode. And the language of those threads was very personal and vituperative.


You could be right. Maybe it's because I was having so much fun bating Mr. Wil$on...
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

Top
#1941190 - 08/12/12 03:22 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Rickster]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7148
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Originally Posted By: turandot
There's also a desire to make the 'community' conform to one's individual expectations of structure, tone, and mood so that the sought-after feeling of belonging seems more worthwhile. Hence, Rick's "We're a family". or "We're all addicted" and Marty's "Hey Gang".

Family is family. Substituting a cyber-form for a family is a symptom of a loneliness that can lead to needless personal disappointment and emotional distress -- Gee, I thought we were buddies.

When I said this forum was LIKE a community, or LIKE a family, if you will, I meant it in the sense that we as forum members respect each other and do not mistreat each other with harsh and hateful words, personal attacks and innuendo.

Rick


It's difficult for me to grasp your concept of harsh and hateful words, personal attacks and innuendo. A member who is one of this forum's most prolific posters calls for good manners by accusing others of diarrhea of the mouth. Might that be a little harsh, a little personal, a little disrespectful? See any irony there?

Another member wants to be counted in because he's noticed a marked escalation of vacuous garbage and urine extraction. It's possible he's joking, but if people really want to call attention to a lack of good manners, this is an odd way to go about it.


_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#1941241 - 08/12/12 07:47 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
if we are voting on a winning line - this one wins for me

"hey nice job on the tudes dude "

what surprises me about the bickering is that is all seems to be male generated.. usually women are the bickerers. at least in KS. Even if i EVER say anything negative, everyone ignores it.

I would like equal time please.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

Top
#1941246 - 08/12/12 08:03 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: turandot]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: turandot
A member who is one of this forum's most prolific posters calls for good manners by accusing others of diarrhea of the mouth. Might that be a little harsh, a little personal, a little disrespectful? See any irony there?


That would be me, the author of this thread.

Turandot, what point are you trying to make by taking my statement, totally out of context, and using it as a negative toward me? This is exactly the type of response which I consider totally inappropriate, having rendered a false judgement of my intent, and feeling the need to bring it up as a negative posting. Please explain to me how it is "harsh," "personal" or "disrespectful" when it was not directed at any given individual, you included.

I have never given much thought to the frequency of my posting and don't understand how it applies to my listing of many things which could be considered to be ill mannered. I post when my experience enables me to offer opinion, observation, or response to specific questions or situations. I do not reply for the sake of replying to something of which I have no experience or interest.

It is very common to read a posting where there is a direct question from a member, often new to PW, asking about a "Schnikelheimmer W147-SWZ" in reference to quality or price. If I am unfamiliar with the instrument I won't respond. If I have direct experience with the "Schnikel," I may very well offer my opinion. I am always baffled at the number of members who will reply with "I have never played a "Schnikel" but.......... That sort of reply serves no purpose whatsoever. Often the same member will keep responding, to the same thread, offering additional comments of no relevance. That is what I referred to as "diarrhea of the mouth."

You have also cast light on my usage of "Hey Gang" as either being negative, familial, or some strange combination of both. Would you prefer that I would have addressed the membership with "Hey #$%& Heads?"

What is the value of attacking members in a thread about that very sort of behavior? See any irony there?
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#1941269 - 08/12/12 09:00 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Roger Ransom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1241
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
In my opinion, the problem is that human beings (in general) just CANNOT get along together. Never have and in my opinion, never will.

I think the only thing different now is our easy methods of communication.

Politics, religion, governments, groups, countries etc. hate each other to the point that people are willing to actually kill each other for not agreeing.

Forums and these forums in particular are pretty mild in the whole scheme of things. I've participated in other forums where people actually agree to meet each other and fight it out.

Discouraging but reality.

Rodney King said (this is close)can't we all just get along?

Just my take.
_________________________
Laugh More
Yamaha G7 - Roland FP7

Top
#1941274 - 08/12/12 09:09 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
woodog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 377
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
This forum, an analogy:

Yesterday I picked blackberries and made a pie.
Everyone loves the pie.

Today I have chiggers.

Even so, I'll do it again, because I like picking blackberries and I like blackberry pie.

Forrest Halford
(real name... finding me is easy, there are only two of us in the U.S.)
_________________________
Graham Fitch's Piano Pedagogy Site
(A WORTHY RESOURCE!)

--------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque
Beethoven Op. 78
Bach WTC 1, C# Major (#3)

Top
#1941280 - 08/12/12 09:19 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: turandot
A member who is one of this forum's most prolific posters calls for good manners by accusing others of diarrhea of the mouth. Might that be a little harsh, a little personal, a little disrespectful? See any irony there?
There are some members who so regularly write mean spirited, arrogant, and nasty threads that such an accusation is perfectly accurate and obvious(although I doubt someone making such an accusation would using the phrase "diarrhea of the mouth"). These posters often use their writing skill mainly to see how "clever" they can be in attacking other posters. For posters like the above commenting on the tone of their posts is not being harsh...it's saying a well documented truth.

Those kind of posters don't deserve respect even if the level of their knowledge is high(it's never as high as they think it is). Comments on the nasty tone of those posters must and should be "personal".



Edited by pianoloverus (08/12/12 10:57 AM)

Top
#1941289 - 08/12/12 09:36 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: pianoloverus]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10452
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: turandot
A member who is one of this forum's most prolific posters calls for good manners by accusing others of diarrhea of the mouth. Might that be a little harsh, a little personal, a little disrespectful? See any irony there?
There are some members who so regularly write mean spirited, arrogant, and nasty threads that such an accusation is perfectly accurate and obvious(although I doubt someone making such an accusation would using the phrase "diarrhea of the mouth"). These posters often use their writing skill mainly to see how "clever" they can be in attacking other posters. For posters like the above commenting on the tone of their posts is not being harsh...it's saying a well documented truth.

Those kind of posters don't deserve respect even if the level of their knowledge is high(it's never as high as they think it is). Comments on the nasty tone of those posters must be by nature "personal".



Well said.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

Top
#1941294 - 08/12/12 09:49 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1523
Loc: Danville, California
Just for the record...

I agree with everything that has been said here in this thread.

Top
#1941297 - 08/12/12 09:56 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Piano*Dad]
Thracozaag Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 1979
Loc: Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Originally Posted By: Turandot
Many people join social media wishing to belong. They sense value in belonging. They befriend those of like mind or disposition both openly in posts that broadcast private chortles and in penned-to-please private messages. Often they come to regard certain other medium members as friends based solely on a courtship of easy words. Conversely, they come to regard certain others as mean-spirited enemies or personal adversaries with no real basis to support that feeling other than a sharp difference of opinion or a lack of trust that someone is in their corner.


Lot of truth in there. This can also be true in face-to-face social encounters, but the web environment seems to be a hot house version of life in which superficial differences of opinion can create ugly arguments without the normal restraints that moderate peoples' anger in real life.


Well said; another factor is most people wouldn't have the temerity to say the same thing to your face they would on an internet posting.
_________________________
"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

http://www.youtube.com/kojiattwood
https://www.giftedmusicschool.org/

Top
#1941315 - 08/12/12 10:32 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I enjoy posting just for the fun of and often times with humor in it. Laughter is fun, especially for me! smile

I have made quite a few personal friends in here over the years that I've been in here, have had a couple of them over to my house and visited with them at their home as well. I PM and email on a regular basis with several of them too.

I suppose, it depends on ones reason for being in the forum but, I'm here to help, sometimes giving advice, but, not always, repetitive advice gets tiring, to learn, to laugh, sometimes to make others laugh, to have fun and, to make friends. wink
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

Top
#1941317 - 08/12/12 10:36 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8422
Loc: Georgia, USA
Okay, after reading the posts in this thread, I’ve decided to recant my analogy about the forum being like a family. Boy, that was a dumb analogy on my part. However, Frank Baxter does refer to the PW forums as a “family oriented website”.

Families usually care about each other; have each other’s best interest at heart. Families usually have respect for each other, even though they may fight amongst themselves at times. Families usually rely on each other, trust each other and help each other. Families usually love each other. So, forget that analogy.

Let’s go back to Frank’s original comments describing the forum atmosphere… “The web site is akin to a community clubhouse, a street corner, a bar, a pool room, a college campus, etc., where people congregate to exchange views on various or particular subjects relating to pianos”…

Also, perhaps we need to be reminded that the Piano World forums are not a right, but a privilege. Along with that privilege comes a certain amount of responsibility… the responsibility to abide by the forum rules…

More excerpts from Frank… “We are a family-oriented web site. Please be careful what you post. Keep it clean, refrain from vulgarity or slander.

Do not be mean-spirited or decidedly negative.
If you are or were in any way associated with the piano industry, please see #1 above.”

Of course, this was quoted from the forum rules page here… http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ite_id/1#import

Might I remind everyone to please be respectful toward others, regardless of how strongly you may disagree. Remember, the forum is not a democracy where we all have a vote. But, we all have an opinion and we are free to express that opinion as long as it does not involve viciously or personally attacking another member.

Marty, I think your thread has made us all stop and think about what we say and how we conduct ourselves here on Piano World.

Rick

_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
#1941332 - 08/12/12 10:55 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Thracozaag Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 1979
Loc: Salt Lake City
On a positive note, it was primarily through this forum that I got to know Brendan--a friendship and musical acquaintance that will always be cherished.
_________________________
"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

http://www.youtube.com/kojiattwood
https://www.giftedmusicschool.org/

Top
#1941341 - 08/12/12 11:09 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1601
Loc: Toronto
One man's 'rude' is another man's 'honest'.
One man's 'mean' is another man's 'assertive'.
One man's 'respectful' is another man's 'fake and spineless'

It's all in our own perspective. I think the best way for us all to get along here is respect that everyone communicates differently. So rather than getting your panties in a knot over HOW people communicate, just try to hear what they are saying. Who am I to presume to tell anyone else how they should express themselves?
Some of the most 'liked' posters on this forum to me are the most non-contributing. They seem more concerned with being liked and agreeable than with being thought provoking or helpful. To me that is very self centered.
A poster like Turandot, to me, is one of the most arrogant and sometimes personally attacking posters I know in these forums but at the same time I often find his posts the most thought provoking and interesting. I'll take those posts any day over the friendly, boring blah blah blah. And no, I don't think he needs to stop being arrogant and cleverly insulting to express his views. That's who he is.
If you want to tell people how to talk to you then start your own website and make your own rules. Otherwise, takes it as it comes and enjoy the diversity.

Top
#1941354 - 08/12/12 11:42 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: AJF]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: AJF
One man's 'rude' is another man's 'honest'.
One man's 'mean' is another man's 'assertive'.
One man's 'respectful' is another man's 'fake and spineless'
Of course not everyone views the same post in the same way, but some posters are so far at the high end of the nastiness scale that I think the huge majority of readers see their posts that way. It's simply not true that honesty requires rudeness or assertiveness requires meanness.

Originally Posted By: AJF
A poster like Turandot, to me, is one of the most arrogant and sometimes personally attacking posters I know in these forums but at the same time I often find his posts the most thought provoking and interesting. I'll take those posts any day over the friendly, boring blah blah blah.
There is no reason it has to be a choice between those two. There are plenty of posters on both the Piano Forum and Pianist's Corner who are highly knowledgeable and never post in a way that is even slightly nasty.

But if I had to choose between the two extremes you mention, I think the "nice" person should win no contest. The topics discussed at PW are not of earth shattering importance to put things mildly. Getting things more correct at the expense of the most basic level of civility is IMO not justified.

As Thracozaag said in this thread, one of the basic problems is that internet conversation allows some posters to converse in a way they would not have the temerity to do in real life...or if they did they'd have few friends and multiple hospital visits.





Edited by pianoloverus (08/12/12 11:46 AM)

Top
#1941362 - 08/12/12 11:56 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1601
Loc: Toronto
I respect your opinion.
And I agree that I DID illustrate two extreme personality types and most people fall in between the two.
But I'd still choose the thought provoking jerk over the nice guy with nothing to say any day.

Top
#1941370 - 08/12/12 12:08 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7148
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: turandot
A member who is one of this forum's most prolific posters calls for good manners by accusing others of diarrhea of the mouth. Might that be a little harsh, a little personal, a little disrespectful? See any irony there?


That would be me, the author of this thread.

Turandot, what point are you trying to make by taking my statement, totally out of context, and using it as a negative toward me? This is exactly the type of response which I consider totally inappropriate, having rendered a false judgement of my intent, and feeling the need to bring it up as a negative posting. Please explain to me how it is "harsh," "personal" or "disrespectful" when it was not directed at any given individual, you included.


If the context of the diarrhea comment was not to criticize others for conduct that you personally find objectionable, then what was the context of the comment?

In listing a bill of charges (not just diarrhea) against unspecified others, you open the door to those who don't share your view and/or find it presimptuous of you to be airing it as a kind of exhortation to othes to conform to it.

The rest of your current post is a summary of your own posting habits contrasted with what you feel are the less desirable habits of certain unnamed others. I'm not questioning your general posting habits. I don't think anyone else is either. My comment was limited to the diarrhea of the mouth. It suggests an inability to control the flow of needless verbal communication. In my opinion, a member who posts prolifically and makes this comment about others should at least anticipate that he may be vulnerable.

Despite that, you have told another poster on this thread that if he doesn't like your thread, then he shouldn't read it. This is tantamount to saying: "If you don't agree with me, stay away". It seems that you are ready to label anyone who disagrees with you as guilty of one or more of your bill of charges. You have certainly done that here by indicating that I am modelling the behavior you disagree with. This may close the loop in your estimation and leave you impregnable, but since you don't own the thread even if you initiated it, to me it makes you even more vulnerable.

Those are only my observations. In all honesty, I can't get worked up about it, and I certainly bear you no ill will. I simply disagree with you. As I posted before, this topic has been explored again and again over the months and years. What this topic invariably demonstrates is that some people (not you) feel they can judget the character and intent of the person from the post and reach conclusions about who is mean-spirited, who is hateful, and who is pure of heart,

IMO this is probably a situation where you should have confronted what you found offensive at the time it was posted if it was important enough to youo rather than storing up your collective indignation and depositing it here. But that is just one person's opinion.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#1941381 - 08/12/12 12:36 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: turandot]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7239
Loc: Rochester MN
Turandot,

You are certainly a master of convoluting simple statements to manufacture totally erronious assumptions. Being out of context seems to be your forte. You are right up there with political spin doctors.

Was that direct enough for you? Does pomposity possibly apply? It is a word which I regret not using in the opening of my thread.

For the record, here again is my opening post, in its entirety.

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Wow!

It seems that this forum has been infected with the same malady which is common in the Tuner/Tech forum.

Bickering - Sniping - Rudness - Cheap Shots - Diarrhea of the Mouth - One Upmanship - Being an Authority on Everything - Vendettas

Hey Gang - Let's consider using some maners and being more civil.

When you feel the need to tighten the laces on your boxing gloves, take it into a PM sparring ring.

Please feel free to pick a nit on the typo.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

Top
#1941391 - 08/12/12 12:46 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Furtwangler]
fcar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 49
Loc: GA, USA
Originally Posted By: Furtwangler
Just for the record...

I agree with everything that has been said here in this thread.



Thanks for the laugh, seriously.

Top
#1941404 - 08/12/12 01:03 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Steve Chandler Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2703
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
It seems I go away on vacation and everybody has so much fun. Rickster had an analogy that we're like a family then recanted it. Every family's different and some are extraordinarily dysfunctional so I don't think he was all that wrong the first time. I'd love it if the folks here were in general nicer to each other, but I know it'll never happen. I respect those who periodically call for more respect, but all that ever happens is they get a target painted on their back for a while. Frank talks about civility and respect but it doesn't get enforced except in the most egregious cases. I've been here for maybe a decade and only the worst offenders have been sanctioned. I do believe that requiring real names would improve things but that's not the internet culture. It IS fun to occasionally play troll, but I don't do that very well nor very often. I do think it would be fun to get together in person with other PW forumers but that doesn't happen often enough. The USA has a tradition of free speech and that includes rude and nasty behavior, heck it includes hate speech.

I appreciated when Turandot pointed to the irony of Minnesota Marty using the term "diarrhea of the mouth" but would simply point out that the term itself isn't all that disagreeable or disrespectful. The irony was a bit weak but thanks for trying to turn it back on the OP and that's what those that MM was complaining about usually do. They argue the tone of the message instead of the merit of it. In Turandot's defense he did both.

I wouldn't expect things to change given how long it's taken to get to this point. I rather enjoy those who can give as good as they get, especially when it's an understated retort. I figure if you have to yell too loud or too often you have figured out how to say it effectively. Given that this thread has exploded on a Sunday morning don't y'all think maybe you should have been at church?


Edited by Steve Chandler (08/12/12 01:09 PM)

Top
#1941413 - 08/12/12 01:18 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8422
Loc: Georgia, USA
Nice post, Steve, and well said.

In fact, I think those comments are great final closing statements in this thread.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
127 registered (Abby Pianoman, accordeur, anotherscott, AmateurBob, 41 invisible), 1632 Guests and 18 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75602 Members
42 Forums
156315 Topics
2295746 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Old Wurlitzer (circa 1940s) baby grand, Worth Picking Up?
by Paul678
11 minutes 24 seconds ago
Piano software without sheet music
by OneSixty
Today at 06:05 PM
Transcribing Music
by Tigero
Today at 05:31 PM
Yamaha P-105 or the Casio PRIVIA px-135?
by Acevle
Today at 05:30 PM
Another reason to love the MP11
by Markarian
Today at 03:57 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission