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You guys play the head of Softly differently but makes no difference. I play it like in the leadsheet. In this case, I just looked at the Colorado Book. Eb IS played on the Downbeat on D-7b5. Whether someone reharmed it or not, the issue is that b9 is played often and there's a whole paragraph in Levine's Jazz Piano Book with the debate.

HEre's a shot at answering my own question.

Strictly from a pedagogy standpoint, what are the top 10 scales. In order, mine. I might change my mind later. Tell me what you think.

Major
Melodic Minor
Harmonic Minor
Lydian Dominant
Lydian
Dorian
Super Locrian
Diminished
Phrygian
Locrian #2

HEre's a shot at answering my own question.

Strictly from a pedagogy standpoint, what are the top 10 scales. In order, mine. I might change my mind later. Tell me what you think.

Major
Melodic Minor
Harmonic Minor
Lydian Dominant
Lydian
Dorian
Super Locrian
Diminished
Phrygian
Locrian #2

I just need to know what's altered from from the basic scale. It's very important for all improvisers to think in terms of 1-b9-9-#9-3-11-#11-5-b13-13-b7-7 instantaneously in all 12 keys.

Harmony and scales are two different things.

What are the first 2 measures of Softly?

(warning, can of worms )

Doesn't the blues scale count?

I suppose I don't really think the dorian is a different scale from the ionian (aeolian, phryg etc). It is a different mode of the same scale.

So on that point, I will disagree with you and JW and say that there's value in practicing specifically that scale and it's application to tunes. Starting with Take the A Train, Days of Wine and Roses and other great standards.

OK, another fun quizz for all. On a 3-6-2-5, say E- A7 D- G7. What do people use on E-7?

However, taking the example of lydian dominant, it's easier for me to just visualize that scale, rather than to think that it's a mode of a melodic minor. Or that it's some modification of a major scale.

So on that point, I will disagree with you and JW and say that there's value in practicing specifically that scale and it's application to tunes.Starting with Take the A Train, Days of Wine and Roses and other great standards.

OK, another fun quizz for all.
On a 3-6-2-5, say E- A7 D- G7
what do people use on E-7?

You've got to know the numbers in all keys without blinking an eye. All the numbers though, not just the one's you've listed. I think the key word here is "basic scale".


Which leads to this...



In the evolution of music, harmony is derived from melody by layering melodic relationships. The relationships are based on the ratios of pitch frequencies, creating the "basic scale". In layering relationships to create harmonies, new relationships are revealed by the same ratios that created the first relationship, contributing to an expansion of what's available melodically and thus leading to more harmonic possibilites, and the cycle goes on...

So really harmony and melody are interconnected in a way that makes them inseperable. You can't have one without implying the other, whether this is acknowledged or not.

So, when we ask a question like this...



Why are we opening a can of worms? Because of course, there are numerous ways of looking at this tune as has been pointed out. But in the end, it all starts with C. Not even C major or C minor... just C. Then, one note at a time, we start to imply inseperable melodic and harmonic relationships. Depending on which relationship we choose to hold on to, we then are able to find more relationships. This is what reharmonization, or lack-thereof for that matter, is all about.

So to me, talking about scales serves only as a way of organizing possibilities into a grouping of notes that are "sound" in some already established conventional way (by tracing back to pitch frequency ratios of the basic scale). It's very useful for learning what is possible at a given moment. But as the myriad of "scale" possibilites are absorbed, compared, and contrasted, it all ends up back to the starting point... numbers in relation (by ratios) to a central pitch. In Softly, that is C. If enough different "sound and conventional" relationships are known and are intuitive, they can be blended and overlapped and manipulated without really thinking anything about C harmonic minor, melodic minor, D dorian, dorian with a flat 2, mixolydian, altered diminished, or whatever. Which is why we all know that all 12 notes can work, so long as you know how to do it.

But that's what it's all about... learning how to do it. We many never know and that's why it's called theory

+1
And from that practice; triads, chords, etc is derived.

Obviously you still need to know the modes. But I don't "practice" a scale starting from some degree.

In A train you may chose to think D lydian dominant (on bars 3 and 4) and I may think A melodic minor (or even Ab dim WT or F sharp locrian sharp2)). It is only the label that changes, the notes remain. This is what is so great about modal thinking - that if you have all the A melodic minor patterns down then they apply to many different chords, so you can simultaneously practice patterns on D7sharp11 and Ab7alt and A min maj7 and F sharp m7b5.

But why not? I mean if you are going to practise the major scale you don't want to start and stop on C each time. In real music it starts and stops on any note.
I try to vary as much as possible any scale exercises I do.

That makes sense. I'll let that sink in for a while.
I'm going at it from a pedagogy angle. While the notes remain the same, there are ways to present those concepts to a student that work better than others.
I think the idea is that when you see D7 in A Train, thinking D7 lydian dominant might actually be easier than other options outlined above.

And on that, I think Burton's right. His thing is "I don't think this scale name, that scale name, I just think this one, that one". Often it's presented as "the notes should light up in your brain". Like the toy keyboards. I like that analogy.

But until that happens, when explaining concepts to students, I think it's key to show something that is easy to understand and apply.

To me scale practice is a specific thing. If I practice it in 4 octaves, I'm hitting every note in the normal range am I not? What's the purpose of stopping (which is what it amounts to) in some middle range?

Do you use different fingering when you play scales in modes? I haven't done that.