Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 178 of 227 < 1 2 ... 176 177 178 179 180 ... 226 227 >
Topic Options
#1940440 - 08/10/12 05:14 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: knotty
So on that point, I will disagree with you and JW and say that there's value in practicing specifically that scale and it's application to tunes. Starting with Take the A Train, Days of Wine and Roses and other great standards.
+1
And from that practice; triads, chords, etc is derived.


Obviously you still need to know the modes. But I don't "practice" a scale starting from some degree.

I don't sit here saying, today I will do Phrygian mode. Tomorrow, Locrian. Will my fingers play it differently?

I just play the Major scale. For the same reason, I don't get the practice of relative minor scales. Isn't the purpose of this just theory?

Correct me if I'm wrong but so far, I've never spent time on this (after almost 8 years).
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

Top
(ads P/S)

Petrof Pianos

#1940496 - 08/10/12 06:56 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Obviously you still need to know the modes. But I don't "practice" a scale starting from some degree.



But why not? I mean if you are going to practise the major scale you don't want to start and stop on C each time. In real music it starts and stops on any note.
I try to vary as much as possible any scale exercises I do.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

Top
#1940507 - 08/10/12 07:07 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Originally Posted By: beeboss

In A train you may chose to think D lydian dominant (on bars 3 and 4) and I may think A melodic minor (or even Ab dim WT or F sharp locrian sharp2)). It is only the label that changes, the notes remain. This is what is so great about modal thinking - that if you have all the A melodic minor patterns down then they apply to many different chords, so you can simultaneously practice patterns on D7sharp11 and Ab7alt and A min maj7 and F sharp m7b5.



That makes sense. I'll let that sink in for a while.
I'm going at it from a pedagogy angle. While the notes remain the same, there are ways to present those concepts to a student that work better than others.
I think the idea is that when you see D7 in A Train, thinking D7 lydian dominant might actually be easier than other options outlined above.

And on that, I think Burton's right. His thing is "I don't think this scale name, that scale name, I just think this one, that one". Often it's presented as "the notes should light up in your brain". Like the toy keyboards. I like that analogy.

But until that happens, when explaining concepts to students, I think it's key to show something that is easy to understand and apply.

Top
#1940519 - 08/10/12 07:28 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: beeboss
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Obviously you still need to know the modes. But I don't "practice" a scale starting from some degree.



But why not? I mean if you are going to practise the major scale you don't want to start and stop on C each time. In real music it starts and stops on any note.
I try to vary as much as possible any scale exercises I do.


I'd rather do that with real music rather than with scale practice.

To me scale practice is a specific thing. If I practice it in 4 octaves, I'm hitting every note in the normal range am I not? What's the purpose of stopping (which is what it amounts to) in some middle range?

Real music looks like real music. Not scales.

I could be wrong. I just never got a convincing explanation. Is there something technically different that I'm missing?

Do you use different fingering when you play scales in modes? I haven't done that.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

Top
#1940522 - 08/10/12 07:34 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: knotty]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: knotty
Originally Posted By: beeboss

In A train you may chose to think D lydian dominant (on bars 3 and 4) and I may think A melodic minor (or even Ab dim WT or F sharp locrian sharp2)). It is only the label that changes, the notes remain. This is what is so great about modal thinking - that if you have all the A melodic minor patterns down then they apply to many different chords, so you can simultaneously practice patterns on D7sharp11 and Ab7alt and A min maj7 and F sharp m7b5.



That makes sense. I'll let that sink in for a while.
I'm going at it from a pedagogy angle. While the notes remain the same, there are ways to present those concepts to a student that work better than others.
I think the idea is that when you see D7 in A Train, thinking D7 lydian dominant might actually be easier than other options outlined above.

And on that, I think Burton's right. His thing is "I don't think this scale name, that scale name, I just think this one, that one". Often it's presented as "the notes should light up in your brain". Like the toy keyboards. I like that analogy.

But until that happens, when explaining concepts to students, I think it's key to show something that is easy to understand and apply.



If I'm going to think of D7, why would I need to think of scale alone which is limiting? I would rather think of the D7 in all its inversions, two handed, cluster, open.

Then visualize every alteration possible. Especially with dominants, why think in the limited view of a scale?

I think of chord tones and then expand that to visualize all 12 tones to see how I'm going to alter it. To properly improvise, eventually we have to see it this way in total IMHO.

As I've said earlier, although I know the scale to which a chord belongs, I realize that's not enough.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

Top
#1940539 - 08/10/12 08:08 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Hi Knotty
For D7s in general I tend to use mixolydian. But I know you like me using lydian dominant, so I've used that too.
For Take the A train, I use lydian dominant as that is the sound intended by the head.

Thanks very much for your quest in trying to make my workload easier, much appreciated smile

From a beginner's perspective, I only know one mode of major: maj 7 #11 (this is all I got up to from the Burton masterclass). Even knowing just one mode has given me so much more improv freedom e.g. if I want to make the major sound even brighter, I can switch to #11.


Edited by custard apple (08/10/12 08:20 PM)

Top
#1940551 - 08/10/12 08:20 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: jazzwee


To me scale practice is a specific thing. If I practice it in 4 octaves, I'm hitting every note in the normal range am I not? What's the purpose of stopping (which is what it amounts to) in some middle range?



In the real world you may wish to go up a ascending E major scale starting from an A and then at say top F sharp turn and descend. Your fingers are not going to know what to do if you have only practiced turning round at E.
Also if you play scales rhythmically in groups of 3 4 5 etc you may want to turn around on the beat which is probably not going to be the tonic. Music isn't normally in the 7/8 of normal scales.

Originally Posted By: jazzwee


Do you use different fingering when you play scales in modes? I haven't done that.


Sometimes, it depends. I used to practice some alternative fingerings, and trying some different ones has got to be a good idea.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

Top
#1940554 - 08/10/12 08:22 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Hey Dave
I'm glad you've joined in this can of worms.
I know you practise a lot of scales and modes.
For the major scale, which modes do you practise ?

Top
#1940569 - 08/10/12 08:42 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: uk south
Hi Custard
all of them, and turning round on each note as well, in rhythmic groups of 3 4 and 5
and in plenty of other ways as well but that is enough to keep anyone busy for a while.
Don't neglect a variety of dynamics and articulations. I have found staccato to be particularly useful.

I don't do it a lot, just 5 or 10 minutes a day. Maybe I do 1 unfamiliar scale (to learn the notes) then a well known one in unusual grouping and then one more for speed and evenness.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

Top
#1940579 - 08/10/12 09:01 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Thanks Dave, that's very useful !
That's a great idea to do them in groups of 3, I only do them in groups of 4.
I'd love to do the sort of triplets that Bill Evans uses.

For articulation, I've been practising accenting the upbeat. Do you ever accent the downbeat ?

For phrase endings, do you ever end on a staccato ?

Yeah for me, 10 min a day is all my brain can absorb.

Top
#1940690 - 08/11/12 03:14 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: beeboss
Originally Posted By: jazzwee


To me scale practice is a specific thing. If I practice it in 4 octaves, I'm hitting every note in the normal range am I not? What's the purpose of stopping (which is what it amounts to) in some middle range?



In the real world you may wish to go up a ascending E major scale starting from an A and then at say top F sharp turn and descend. Your fingers are not going to know what to do if you have only practiced turning round at E.
Also if you play scales rhythmically in groups of 3 4 5 etc you may want to turn around on the beat which is probably not going to be the tonic. Music isn't normally in the 7/8 of normal scales.

Originally Posted By: jazzwee


Do you use different fingering when you play scales in modes? I haven't done that.


Sometimes, it depends. I used to practice some alternative fingerings, and trying some different ones has got to be a good idea.


Appreciate the good examples. These don't appear to be a problem for me though. Though I didn't practice it as modes, I always practice noodling around back and forth in all keys so I really didn't have to think about the fingering much now. I don't know what I practiced (I think just progressions) but it certainly didn't come from mode practice.

I did do a lot of practice to get chord tones on downbeats (our past long debate), and that gets me automatically in sync for some reason.

It's really good though to discuss what each one of us does for practice (especially those less skilled than you). I'm sure there's a lot more we should be doing.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

Top
#1940712 - 08/11/12 04:30 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: knotty]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1368
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: knotty
I think the idea is that when you see D7 in A Train, thinking D7 lydian dominant might actually be easier than other options outlined above.
What's this with A train? Suddenly I'm involved with the same discussion here and on FB . . . Same debate. Same answers.
Interesting though.
Berklee schooled says: Think the minor starting on the V: A melodic minor
Indiana schooled: Half-dim/Whole tone

One of the FB participants posted: "Ultimately depends on what the rhythm section is doing at that moment, as jazz might be more about playing TOGETHER and CREATIVELY than "playing" a textbook solution. There is ALWAYS more than ONE way!"

I couldn't agree more.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

Top
#1940713 - 08/11/12 04:37 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: custard apple]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1368
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: custard apple
From a beginner's perspective, I only know one mode of major: maj 7 #11 (this is all I got up to from the Burton masterclass). Even knowing just one mode has given me so much more improv freedom e.g. if I want to make the major sound even brighter, I can switch to #11.
That's excellent Custard! You've got it!
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

Top
#1940717 - 08/11/12 05:16 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: custard apple]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: custard apple

For articulation, I've been practising accenting the upbeat. Do you ever accent the downbeat ?

For phrase endings, do you ever end on a staccato ?



Yes, I have found that accenting every 3rd or 4th note works well for me. It is a great way to develop control over where the accents fall. Invaluable for playing good triplets.
There are endless different patterns of accents to try.
And why not try ending with a staccato?
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

Top
#1940718 - 08/11/12 05:30 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: chrisbell

What's this with A train? Suddenly I'm involved with the same discussion here and on FB . . . Same debate. Same answers.
Interesting though.
Berklee schooled says: Think the minor starting on the V: A melodic minor
Indiana schooled: Half-dim/Whole tone

One of the FB participants posted: "Ultimately depends on what the rhythm section is doing at that moment, as jazz might be more about playing TOGETHER and CREATIVELY than "playing" a textbook solution. There is ALWAYS more than ONE way!"

I couldn't agree more.



Hi Chris,

I didn't mean to suggest that one scale is better than another, only if one was thinking about playing a lydian dominant then it wouldn't really make any difference how you label that sound. Any label that defines that pitch set is fine.

I kind of agree about the rhythm section thing if you are talking from the perspective of a horn player, but in a trio there is not much the bass and drums can do to affect the pianists scale choice. The bass would have to be pretty forceful with a note that was in one of those scale and not int he other to really make an impact, and that isn't likely to happen on the first beat or 2. And the bass should really take its cue from what the soloist is doing.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

Top
#1940719 - 08/11/12 05:31 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Appreciate the good examples. These don't appear to be a problem for me though. Though I didn't practice it as modes, I always practice noodling around back and forth in all keys so I really didn't have to think about the fingering much now. I don't know what I practiced (I think just progressions) but it certainly didn't come from mode practice.



Hi JW,
whatever works for you is the best thing to do
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

Top
#1940721 - 08/11/12 05:59 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Originally Posted By: beeboss
Originally Posted By: custard apple

For articulation, I've been practising accenting the upbeat. Do you ever accent the downbeat ?

For phrase endings, do you ever end on a staccato ?



Yes, I have found that accenting every 3rd or 4th note works well for me. It is a great way to develop control over where the accents fall. Invaluable for playing good triplets.
There are endless different patterns of accents to try.
And why not try ending with a staccato?


So Dave, for playing triplets, could I please confirm that I could accent either the 1st, 2nd or the 3rd note of a triplet ?

Sonny Rollins ends the 1st chorus of his ATTYA solo (Village Vanguard version) with a staccato and it sounds so super kool. But I've been too scared to try it. You know how there's an expectation that we end a solo with an at home/ at rest feel ? Maybe I will try for a phrase ending mid chorus rather than right at the end of a solo.

Top
#1940722 - 08/11/12 06:01 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: custard apple
From a beginner's perspective, I only know one mode of major: maj 7 #11 (this is all I got up to from the Burton masterclass). Even knowing just one mode has given me so much more improv freedom e.g. if I want to make the major sound even brighter, I can switch to #11.
That's excellent Custard! You've got it!


Thanks for your encouragement Chris. The workload seems overwhelming but I'm just taking it bit by bit. I'm practising scale patterns and arps starting on different chord tones.

It's such a great feeling changing mode. It's like changing gear when you're learning to drive a manual. Woohoo !

Top
#1940727 - 08/11/12 06:31 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1368
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: beeboss
I didn't mean to suggest that one scale is better than another, only if one was thinking about playing a lydian dominant then it wouldn't really make any difference how you label that sound. Any label that defines that pitch set is fine.

I know you didn't. smile
I was reacting to my own mind-set.
It's always good to be reminded what this thing called Jazz is really about.

On the other hand, I do appreciate a clear and concise nomenclature. That's why I prefer using "Half-dim/WT" instead of "a Melodic Minor starting from the VII of the scale".

Originally Posted By: beeboss
I kind of agree about the rhythm section thing if you are talking from the perspective of a horn player, but in a trio there is not much the bass and drums can do to affect the pianists scale choice. The bass would have to be pretty forceful with a note that was in one of those scale and not int he other to really make an impact, and that isn't likely to happen on the first beat or 2. And the bass should really take its cue from what the soloist is doing.
Uptempo I agree. But certainly not slow or a ballad. A bassist can screw up a chord progression and point in the wrong direction. Which bugs me . . . a lot when it happens.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

Top
#1940729 - 08/11/12 06:35 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: custard apple]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1368
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Sonny Rollins ends the 1st chorus of his ATTYA solo (Village Vanguard version) with a staccato and it sounds so super kool. But I've been too scared to try it.
I feel that staccato on a horn is much better than on the piano. At one of the Aebersold piano Master classes I was told "avoid staccato, jazz piano is legato" and "if you want to play staccato just play a short note".
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

Top
#1940735 - 08/11/12 07:25 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Sonny Rollins ends the 1st chorus of his ATTYA solo (Village Vanguard version) with a staccato and it sounds so super kool. But I've been too scared to try it.
I feel that staccato on a horn is much better than on the piano. At one of the Aebersold piano Master classes I was told "avoid staccato, jazz piano is legato" and "if you want to play staccato just play a short note".


Very interesting Chris, I never considered the difference in instruments.
Do you use staccato ? If so, do you have a preference ? e.g. to end a long line ?
on an upbeat ?

What do you mean by "just play a short note" ? Is that like for example, between long lines: & 1+ & 2+ & 3+ & 4+


Edited by custard apple (08/11/12 07:29 AM)

Top
#1940782 - 08/11/12 10:36 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1368
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
No I don't use staccato. I might play "dry" as I call it, no pedal and quick attacks.
Especially when doing Latin, but I don't really like it.

But Legato is the approach to aim for on the piano. But that's my preference. The piano is a staccato instrument, it's percussive by nature, whereas a wind instrument is naturally legato, breathe out and move those valves/keys.

So I prefer the school of playing that Bill Evans, Keith Jarrett, etc belongs to.

Short note: hit a key and let go immediately.
(Say a 32nd-note at 190 bpm)


Edited by chrisbell (08/11/12 10:38 AM)
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

Top
#1940861 - 08/11/12 01:50 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: custard apple]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: custard apple

So Dave, for playing triplets, could I please confirm that I could accent either the 1st, 2nd or the 3rd note of a triplet ?




Start with accenting the first until you are very comfortable at a medium speed. It is hard to accent the others, especially at tempo. Ultimately it is best to be able to accent any one you wish to bring out and there are lots of cool cross-rhythms that you can do accenting say every 4th triplet.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

Top
#1940863 - 08/11/12 01:55 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: chrisbell

But certainly not slow or a ballad. A bassist can screw up a chord progression and point in the wrong direction. Which bugs me . . . a lot when it happens.





Yeah, it is true. It is hard to play interesting notes on the bass that always work with the piano.

Originally Posted By: chrisbell


But Legato is the approach to aim for on the piano. But that's my preference. The piano is a staccato instrument, it's percussive by nature, whereas a wind instrument is naturally legato, breathe out and move those valves/keys.


I always used to aim for legato but then I realised that my playing lacked 'bounce'. My 'bounce' has been much better since I started experimenting and becoming more aware of different articulations.
It is not only a jazz thing though, notes sound clearer when they have a little space around them. I worked that out listening to Gould …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KGhpfnZ70U
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

Top
#1940881 - 08/11/12 02:51 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1368
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: beeboss
I always used to aim for legato but then I realised that my playing lacked 'bounce'. My 'bounce' has been much better since I started experimenting and becoming more aware of different articulations.
Yes. That was another thing that was pointed out to me. Swing (or bounce if you like) comes not from triplets but from articulation. (I was swinging too hard at a medium tempo)
Originally Posted By: beeboss
It is not only a jazz thing though, notes sound clearer when they have a little space around them. I worked that out listening to Gould.
Ahh Gould. Well, that's a simple one. No pedal. Sustain the notes by utilising arm weight. And practice with finger tapping.
Right, very simple indeed. smile

bbtw Bill Evans and Gould were admirers of each other's playing. and I think I've mentioned it before but the piano that Kind of Blue is recorded on is the same as Gould's Goldberg Variations.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

Top
#1940904 - 08/11/12 03:59 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: chrisbell

Ahh Gould. Well, that's a simple one. No pedal. Sustain the notes by utilising arm weight. And practice with finger tapping.
Right, very simple indeed.


I am far from being convinced that he didn't use the sustaining pedal. It is true that he didn't use it much for sustaining notes but for tone I think he did.

Have a close look at this Mozart you can see him use it ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkhwK5YEksI

I know he is on record saying that he never used the pedal in Bach but on the goldberg video (1981) I can see him using it.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

Top
#1940911 - 08/11/12 04:12 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: uk south
And here there is a close up the dampers which clearly shows how he uses the pedal in Bach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bdh1ZHU5xA
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

Top
#1940950 - 08/11/12 05:54 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1368
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: beeboss
And here there is a close up the dampers which clearly shows how he uses the pedal in Bach http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bdh1ZHU5xA
Yes he does. Interesting. I haven't seen those videos before. I bow to your superior Google-Fu.
I have been under the impression, mostly from reading the biography, that he didn't use it. Apparently I'm not the only one. I've now found long forum discussions visavi does he or doesn't he.
"The album (the first Goldberg Variations) gained attention for Gould's unique pianistic method, which incorporated a finger technique involving great clarity of articulation (a "detached staccatissimo"), even at great speed, and little sustaining pedal."

However, thanks to my erroneous thinking I've worked hard on my finger legato.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

Top
#1940968 - 08/11/12 06:21 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Chris, AP is known for being a legato player and I was talking to him recently about working on playing detached. I think it is important to build the legato muscles since that is still the basic jazz sound but clearly the very top musicians alter their articulation. So because of hearing this, I've been practicing stacatto/detached too.

But legato still needs work. That's a lifetime of work there. All articulation is I suppose. Beeboss truly honed in this early on. He's been talking about this (articulation) for years, including dynamics in jazz.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

Top
#1940996 - 08/11/12 07:05 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: chrisbell

However, thanks to my erroneous thinking I've worked hard on my finger legato.


That is time well spent.
I used to learn the church organ when I was a kid and you have to get used to that stuff like changing fingers on notes that are held down on the organ.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

Top
Page 178 of 227 < 1 2 ... 176 177 178 179 180 ... 226 227 >

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
8 Live Ragtime Piano Players on the Cape!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Advice? First digital piano for family--already own a GP
by SCD
10/20/14 07:58 PM
Help with my DGX-650 and Synthesia!
by Jtreimer
10/20/14 07:21 PM
Piano tuning career prospects 2014
by Morrisos
10/20/14 06:56 PM
Ack! My piano is diseased!
by TwoSnowflakes
10/20/14 06:34 PM
Painting Piano Keys
by imustlearn
10/20/14 06:00 PM
Who's Online
133 registered (accordeur, anamnesis, Alkanaut, anotherscott, 88 Fingers Jeff, 38 invisible), 1472 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76599 Members
42 Forums
158391 Topics
2325843 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission