Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Used Kawai CL 35 ~$500?

I don't want to spend too much just yet on a digital piano, as who knows if my daughter will enjoy it or not

Well, that's kinda the problem here: the less you spend - the less she will enjoy it But that's the ultimate dilemma parents face in those situations: most people don't want to buy an upright in fear of a kid abandoning the studies, thus leaving them with an object which is very heavy, takes up a lot of room and not easy to get rid of. On the other hand, bying a digital (especially the low-end one), while much more convenient, increases the chance of kid dropping the studies even greater.

Well, if you are suggesting that a DP is not acceptable and acoustic is the way to go, I am afraid that is out of our budget!

I have looked around a bit and we could also get a Yamaha CLP 430 @ $1700-2000

What we figure is we would upgrade if she got serious, but you imply that sub-par equipment might be the reason for her not being interested?

I'm not aware of the teaching methods of music students in Switzerland, but from what I can remember - in my first years of study I was being taught to "extract" the sound the right way, proper hand motorics and other basics. Digital piano is useless in that department: all it can do is play a note louder or quieter depending on a data it has received from a velocity sensor. No matter how you play it - the sound remains the same.

So, what I'm trying to say: she might just not advance enough to become serious in the first place. She will learn to push the keys at the right time at the right speed and the right volume, but that's not really playing.

there's not much difference between the P155 and CLP430

It was my understanding that the YDP-181 has a GH action, which should be the same, lacking only the third sensor. Wrong! The YDP action was FAR lighter than my CLP.

That's not true - even the Casios, which you really don't seem to like, sample the main piano sound at four different levels to get the different timbre as well as just the volume change.

Its a long way towards it

Since you're concerned about capital commitment, just get the best piano you can, but find one that omits the features that add unnecessary cost.

So ... choose a slab keyboard rather than a console. Example: The Yamaha P155 keyboard sells for around $1000. It has no stand so you'll have to spend a bit more for one. But it compares quite well with the CLP430. The latter is a console/cabinet piano, and you pay a great deal more for that. It also has more instrument voices and a nice control panel, and you pay a great deal for those, too.

So if you can live without those features, you can cut your cost dramatically. When you get right down to pure piano, and ignore the peripheral fluff, there's not much difference between the P155 and CLP430.

I'm not aware of the teaching methods of music students in Switzerland, but from what I can remember - in my first years of study I was being taught to "extract" the sound the right way, proper hand motorics and other basics. Digital piano is useless in that department: all it can do is play a note louder or quieter depending on a data it has received from a velocity sensor. No matter how you play it - the sound remains the same.
So, what I'm trying to say: she might just not advance enough to become serious in the first place. She will learn to push the keys at the right time at the right speed and the right volume, but that's not really playing.

There is nothing to piano playing besides producing the appropriate velocities on the appropriate keys at the appropriate time (and associated pedaling and correct timing of key lifting).

Kos, you say a lot of unfounded B.S. from what I've seen, and I wish you wouldn't. This is not true in any respect. Acoustic pianos are just like digitals in the sense that the only determining factor in the sound is the velocity of the hammer at the time of impact. All this talk of extracting the sound is just a way for the pianist to visualize different ways of producing that velocity, and works the same on a digital as an acoustic. There is nothing to piano playing besides producing the appropriate velocities on the appropriate keys at the appropriate time (and associated pedaling and correct timing of key lifting). Let's not start inserting apocryphal piano dogma into a reasonable discussion of which digital piano to buy.

By the way, Vectistim's comment gave you the benefit of the doubt by correctly addressing the only reasonable interpretation of your comment: that you were confused about whether digitals produce different timbres with different velocities. Back in the day they did not, but they do now, just as acoustics. In both the digital and acoustic case the same velocity produces the same timbre and other sound qualities, regardless of what kind of hand motion produced that velocity. You replying that he misunderstood you only clarifies that your original comment was stupider than his interpretation.

It's also not true that digitals exist only because of budget reasons. That's one of their many advantages. Another we just discussed is that you can actually play them and have young children at the same time (as we discussed in another thread). There are others, but most people in the forum are well aware of them. Digitals do have some limitations--none of which have been mentioned here--but that's not a reason for boneheads like you to try and put the whole concept down at every opportunity. If you dislike digitals, there is an acoustic piano forum on this same site you can hang out in and not get in the way on threads like this, where your comments are wholly out of place.

To the OP, the CL35 is an ok piano. Remember that in digital pianos, action is king. We don't talk much about the lower end Kawais much in this forum, so the AHA IV-F action doesn't get as much chatter as the higher end Kawai actions. And it's not common to see these pianos in the US, so I haven't tried one personally. However, I have heard good things about some other Kawai AHA IV-F pianos, such as the EP3, which competes with the P155. In the US the latter is cheaper and more popular, but they are in the same ballpark. Therefore for $500 it seems like a reasonable/good buy--very likely a better buy than an equivalently priced newer model.

It will use an older tone generator, so give it a good listen and make sure it sounds good enough to you before buying. Action may be king, but it's not the whole enchilada.

Kos, you say a lot of unfounded B.S. from what I've seen, and I wish you wouldn't. This is not true in any respect. Acoustic pianos are just like digitals in the sense that the only determining factor in the sound is the velocity of the hammer at the time of impact. All this talk of extracting the sound is just a way for the pianist to visualize different ways of producing that velocity, and works the same on a digital as an acoustic. There is nothing to piano playing besides producing the appropriate velocities on the appropriate keys at the appropriate time (and associated pedaling and correct timing of key lifting). Let's not start inserting apocryphal piano dogma into a reasonable discussion of which digital piano to buy.

Hmm, 'cheaper' and 'Switzerland' in the same sentence, that must be a first.