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#1941315 - 08/12/12 10:32 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
I enjoy posting just for the fun of and often times with humor in it. Laughter is fun, especially for me! smile

I have made quite a few personal friends in here over the years that I've been in here, have had a couple of them over to my house and visited with them at their home as well. I PM and email on a regular basis with several of them too.

I suppose, it depends on ones reason for being in the forum but, I'm here to help, sometimes giving advice, but, not always, repetitive advice gets tiring, to learn, to laugh, sometimes to make others laugh, to have fun and, to make friends. wink
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1941317 - 08/12/12 10:36 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8583
Loc: Georgia, USA
Okay, after reading the posts in this thread, I’ve decided to recant my analogy about the forum being like a family. Boy, that was a dumb analogy on my part. However, Frank Baxter does refer to the PW forums as a “family oriented website”.

Families usually care about each other; have each other’s best interest at heart. Families usually have respect for each other, even though they may fight amongst themselves at times. Families usually rely on each other, trust each other and help each other. Families usually love each other. So, forget that analogy.

Let’s go back to Frank’s original comments describing the forum atmosphere… “The web site is akin to a community clubhouse, a street corner, a bar, a pool room, a college campus, etc., where people congregate to exchange views on various or particular subjects relating to pianos”…

Also, perhaps we need to be reminded that the Piano World forums are not a right, but a privilege. Along with that privilege comes a certain amount of responsibility… the responsibility to abide by the forum rules…

More excerpts from Frank… “We are a family-oriented web site. Please be careful what you post. Keep it clean, refrain from vulgarity or slander.

Do not be mean-spirited or decidedly negative.
If you are or were in any way associated with the piano industry, please see #1 above.”

Of course, this was quoted from the forum rules page here… http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ite_id/1#import

Might I remind everyone to please be respectful toward others, regardless of how strongly you may disagree. Remember, the forum is not a democracy where we all have a vote. But, we all have an opinion and we are free to express that opinion as long as it does not involve viciously or personally attacking another member.

Marty, I think your thread has made us all stop and think about what we say and how we conduct ourselves here on Piano World.

Rick

_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1941332 - 08/12/12 10:55 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Thracozaag Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 1980
Loc: Salt Lake City
On a positive note, it was primarily through this forum that I got to know Brendan--a friendship and musical acquaintance that will always be cherished.
_________________________
"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

http://www.youtube.com/kojiattwood
https://www.giftedmusicschool.org/

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#1941341 - 08/12/12 11:09 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
AJF Online   blank
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1655
Loc: Toronto
One man's 'rude' is another man's 'honest'.
One man's 'mean' is another man's 'assertive'.
One man's 'respectful' is another man's 'fake and spineless'

It's all in our own perspective. I think the best way for us all to get along here is respect that everyone communicates differently. So rather than getting your panties in a knot over HOW people communicate, just try to hear what they are saying. Who am I to presume to tell anyone else how they should express themselves?
Some of the most 'liked' posters on this forum to me are the most non-contributing. They seem more concerned with being liked and agreeable than with being thought provoking or helpful. To me that is very self centered.
A poster like Turandot, to me, is one of the most arrogant and sometimes personally attacking posters I know in these forums but at the same time I often find his posts the most thought provoking and interesting. I'll take those posts any day over the friendly, boring blah blah blah. And no, I don't think he needs to stop being arrogant and cleverly insulting to express his views. That's who he is.
If you want to tell people how to talk to you then start your own website and make your own rules. Otherwise, takes it as it comes and enjoy the diversity.
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

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#1941354 - 08/12/12 11:42 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: AJF]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19593
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: AJF
One man's 'rude' is another man's 'honest'.
One man's 'mean' is another man's 'assertive'.
One man's 'respectful' is another man's 'fake and spineless'
Of course not everyone views the same post in the same way, but some posters are so far at the high end of the nastiness scale that I think the huge majority of readers see their posts that way. It's simply not true that honesty requires rudeness or assertiveness requires meanness.

Originally Posted By: AJF
A poster like Turandot, to me, is one of the most arrogant and sometimes personally attacking posters I know in these forums but at the same time I often find his posts the most thought provoking and interesting. I'll take those posts any day over the friendly, boring blah blah blah.
There is no reason it has to be a choice between those two. There are plenty of posters on both the Piano Forum and Pianist's Corner who are highly knowledgeable and never post in a way that is even slightly nasty.

But if I had to choose between the two extremes you mention, I think the "nice" person should win no contest. The topics discussed at PW are not of earth shattering importance to put things mildly. Getting things more correct at the expense of the most basic level of civility is IMO not justified.

As Thracozaag said in this thread, one of the basic problems is that internet conversation allows some posters to converse in a way they would not have the temerity to do in real life...or if they did they'd have few friends and multiple hospital visits.





Edited by pianoloverus (08/12/12 11:46 AM)

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#1941362 - 08/12/12 11:56 AM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
AJF Online   blank
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1655
Loc: Toronto
I respect your opinion.
And I agree that I DID illustrate two extreme personality types and most people fall in between the two.
But I'd still choose the thought provoking jerk over the nice guy with nothing to say any day.
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

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#1941370 - 08/12/12 12:08 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7265
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: turandot
A member who is one of this forum's most prolific posters calls for good manners by accusing others of diarrhea of the mouth. Might that be a little harsh, a little personal, a little disrespectful? See any irony there?


That would be me, the author of this thread.

Turandot, what point are you trying to make by taking my statement, totally out of context, and using it as a negative toward me? This is exactly the type of response which I consider totally inappropriate, having rendered a false judgement of my intent, and feeling the need to bring it up as a negative posting. Please explain to me how it is "harsh," "personal" or "disrespectful" when it was not directed at any given individual, you included.


If the context of the diarrhea comment was not to criticize others for conduct that you personally find objectionable, then what was the context of the comment?

In listing a bill of charges (not just diarrhea) against unspecified others, you open the door to those who don't share your view and/or find it presimptuous of you to be airing it as a kind of exhortation to othes to conform to it.

The rest of your current post is a summary of your own posting habits contrasted with what you feel are the less desirable habits of certain unnamed others. I'm not questioning your general posting habits. I don't think anyone else is either. My comment was limited to the diarrhea of the mouth. It suggests an inability to control the flow of needless verbal communication. In my opinion, a member who posts prolifically and makes this comment about others should at least anticipate that he may be vulnerable.

Despite that, you have told another poster on this thread that if he doesn't like your thread, then he shouldn't read it. This is tantamount to saying: "If you don't agree with me, stay away". It seems that you are ready to label anyone who disagrees with you as guilty of one or more of your bill of charges. You have certainly done that here by indicating that I am modelling the behavior you disagree with. This may close the loop in your estimation and leave you impregnable, but since you don't own the thread even if you initiated it, to me it makes you even more vulnerable.

Those are only my observations. In all honesty, I can't get worked up about it, and I certainly bear you no ill will. I simply disagree with you. As I posted before, this topic has been explored again and again over the months and years. What this topic invariably demonstrates is that some people (not you) feel they can judget the character and intent of the person from the post and reach conclusions about who is mean-spirited, who is hateful, and who is pure of heart,

IMO this is probably a situation where you should have confronted what you found offensive at the time it was posted if it was important enough to youo rather than storing up your collective indignation and depositing it here. But that is just one person's opinion.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1941381 - 08/12/12 12:36 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: turandot]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Turandot,

You are certainly a master of convoluting simple statements to manufacture totally erronious assumptions. Being out of context seems to be your forte. You are right up there with political spin doctors.

Was that direct enough for you? Does pomposity possibly apply? It is a word which I regret not using in the opening of my thread.

For the record, here again is my opening post, in its entirety.

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Wow!

It seems that this forum has been infected with the same malady which is common in the Tuner/Tech forum.

Bickering - Sniping - Rudness - Cheap Shots - Diarrhea of the Mouth - One Upmanship - Being an Authority on Everything - Vendettas

Hey Gang - Let's consider using some maners and being more civil.

When you feel the need to tighten the laces on your boxing gloves, take it into a PM sparring ring.

Please feel free to pick a nit on the typo.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#1941391 - 08/12/12 12:46 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Furtwangler]
fcar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 53
Loc: GA, USA
Originally Posted By: Furtwangler
Just for the record...

I agree with everything that has been said here in this thread.



Thanks for the laugh, seriously.

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#1941404 - 08/12/12 01:03 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2780
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
It seems I go away on vacation and everybody has so much fun. Rickster had an analogy that we're like a family then recanted it. Every family's different and some are extraordinarily dysfunctional so I don't think he was all that wrong the first time. I'd love it if the folks here were in general nicer to each other, but I know it'll never happen. I respect those who periodically call for more respect, but all that ever happens is they get a target painted on their back for a while. Frank talks about civility and respect but it doesn't get enforced except in the most egregious cases. I've been here for maybe a decade and only the worst offenders have been sanctioned. I do believe that requiring real names would improve things but that's not the internet culture. It IS fun to occasionally play troll, but I don't do that very well nor very often. I do think it would be fun to get together in person with other PW forumers but that doesn't happen often enough. The USA has a tradition of free speech and that includes rude and nasty behavior, heck it includes hate speech.

I appreciated when Turandot pointed to the irony of Minnesota Marty using the term "diarrhea of the mouth" but would simply point out that the term itself isn't all that disagreeable or disrespectful. The irony was a bit weak but thanks for trying to turn it back on the OP and that's what those that MM was complaining about usually do. They argue the tone of the message instead of the merit of it. In Turandot's defense he did both.

I wouldn't expect things to change given how long it's taken to get to this point. I rather enjoy those who can give as good as they get, especially when it's an understated retort. I figure if you have to yell too loud or too often you have figured out how to say it effectively. Given that this thread has exploded on a Sunday morning don't y'all think maybe you should have been at church?


Edited by Steve Chandler (08/12/12 01:09 PM)

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#1941413 - 08/12/12 01:18 PM Re: What Is Going On in Piano Forum? [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8583
Loc: Georgia, USA
Nice post, Steve, and well said.

In fact, I think those comments are great final closing statements in this thread.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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