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#1945412 - 08/19/12 10:19 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
"Nil volentibus arduum.....that's Latin for.... Nothing is difficult for those who really want...."

Thank you for that; it is beautifully said.

Please excuse my not using the diacritical characters in transliterating the Sanscrit:

Tivra-samveganam asannah
"It is nearest to those whose desire is intensely strong." Patanjali Yoga Sutras, Book One, Sutra 21
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#1945474 - 08/19/12 12:06 PM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: knotty]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains

Quote:
It doesn't even need to be conscious practice or lessons. You can throw in all the 10s of thousands of hours you want. The 5 year old wins. Without a sweat. :-)


Only if the five year old has the discipline, desire and support to keep on. This is where self determining adults have him beat hollow.
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#1945627 - 08/19/12 04:09 PM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
I think for every person who makes it to the advance level, scores of others do not. The important question to ask is whether you climb this mountain to get a view at the peak or do you enjoy climbing.
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#1945876 - 08/20/12 12:08 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: knotty]
nicolakirwan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 37
Loc: midwest
Originally Posted By: knotty
The ears of a 4 year old are incredibly better than those of a 9 year old.
If a child learns English at age 10, he will forever have an accent.
If he does at age 5, he will not.
If he does at age 21, he will have a thick one.

It doesn't even need to be conscious practice or lessons. You can throw in all the 10s of thousands of hours you want. The 5 year old wins. Without a sweat. :-)


The 5 year old wins what though? People who learn English after childhood can still obtain native level fluency, irrespective of the thickness of their accent. (I know someone who did exactly this, coming from a completely unrelated language, and starting at 18). I think there might be a misleading assumption thrown in here that ease of learning determines how far one may advance. Because the reality is that to play at an "advanced" level and to be one of *the* elite pianists are two wholly different things. Can an adult learner develop true "fluency" on the piano? Of course. Piano is not such an impossibly complicated task that it is beyond the mastery of an adult learner. You just have to put in the time.

Also, regarding the 10,000 hours bit. The 10,000 hours study looked at the most elite performers in a given field. I believe the focus was chess (this is discussed in another thread). 10,000 hours reflects the amount of time spent by the best of the best (think grand chess masters and olympic athletes), not the time it takes to simply be good at something.

The 10,000 hours rule is not always helpful because the study focused on those who played competitively and not how long it took to obtain technical mastery of an activity. The "mastery" referred to competitive ranking, not simply ability to play well. When you are looking at an activity from a competitive angle, you get increasingly diminished returns for each hour spent practicing. If it were mapped out on a graph with time on the x axis and progress on the y axis, you'd see a curve that starts getting flatter and flatter after a certain point. People at the very top are putting in hours and hours of practice just to be able to execute a skill a hair better than the next person.

If you think about it in terms of something like the Olympics, the hours spent are not spent learning or even mastering skills so much as improving performance relative to their competitors. Similarly with chess, it didn't take the chess masters 10,000 hours to become good at chess. That's at least how long it took before they became better than everyone else. They were "good" at chess long before they became chess master.

So, this is not really a suitable comparison for something like learning to play the piano. It's not going to take you 10,000 hours to either learn or become good at piano, even at an "advanced" level. Most kids who stick with piano in no wise practice 4 hours a day, and they eventually get there if they keep playing through high school. If you decide to play professionally or in competitions, that's where your commitment is really going to have to ramp up.


Edited by nicolakirwan (08/20/12 12:21 AM)
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#1945938 - 08/20/12 04:58 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: Johan B]
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3551
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
Originally Posted By: Johan B
Hi BBM,

I use to think...... Nil volentibus arduum.....

Johan B


You used to think that? In Latin? In a dead language? Really? And if so why "used to..."?

I'm thinking Absolutum Absurdum laugh
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Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

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#1945941 - 08/20/12 05:10 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: SoundThumb]
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3551
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
Originally Posted By: SoundThumb
Although the 10,000 hr number gets thrown around a lot, there is anechdotal evidence based upon the experience of members of this forum that somewhere around 3,000 hrs one moves from student to practiced musician. So don't get scared off by the 10,000 hr number. We can debate what "advanced" means, but I like to think it is probably a skill level that is obtainable a lot sooner than at the 10,000 hr mark.


I went from student to practiced musician at precisely 1,876 hours (I remember the remarkable transition clearly), and from practiced musician to advanced performer at exactly 4,732 hours (I can still feel the thrill of the surge of power & efficiency)...

But while this may be motivating & encouraging to some of you (especially those of you in a big hurry to get real good) you should not necessarily expect these results...outcomes will vary...log your own personal hours...

Trap
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Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1945942 - 08/20/12 05:26 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: 4evrBeginR]
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3551
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
Originally Posted By: 4evrBeginR
I think for every person who makes it to the advance level, scores of others do not. The important question to ask is whether you climb this mountain to get a view at the peak or do you enjoy climbing.


The correct answer is both...However, the trouble with a lot of students is that they don't want to do the hard work of the climb...that hurts too much...they want it all and they want it immediately...what they really want is to be dropped at the peak right away from a helicopter...but a fool and his piano (like his money) are soon parted...


Edited by TrapperJohn (08/20/12 05:26 AM)
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Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1945946 - 08/20/12 05:40 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: Jeff Clef]
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3551
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef


Please excuse my not using the diacritical characters in transliterating the Sanscrit:



There is simply no excuse for that...but we'll let you get away with it this once...especially since hardly anyone here knows the difference anyway...but don't let it happen again smile
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Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

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#1945950 - 08/20/12 05:56 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 528
Loc: Finland
My own experience:
In my forties now. I played for about 5 years as a kid. I hardly practiced more than maybe 2 hours a week in average. That would make about 500 hours. I learned some basics that are still helpful, but never got to anything worth playing.
Started again last year. Playing grade 4-6 stuff now and have a demanding classical teacher. Practice at least 7 hours a week. That will make about 350 hours a year. Most of my time still goes to trying to figure out how to play better technically, not to learning new pieces. At this rate I should be able to play some grade 8 stuff after a few years unless I reach a plateu. But to become good at it and have a decent repertoire will take at least 10 years I believe. 10 years of practicing 7 hours a week only makes 3600 hours. So I just hope that's enough.

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#1946023 - 08/20/12 09:53 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
Kbeaumont Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 257
Loc: Virginia, USA
I have a friend she spoke Vietnamese exclusively until she was 10 almost 11. Her family came here after the fall of Saigon. She has a thick accent its called a southern drawl! She has no discernible accent other than what every other southerner from the Florida - Alabama border has. She still speaks fluent Vietnamese but cannot read or write it.

I have met two very accomplished pianists that didn't start until their mid thirties. They each did have one thing in common, they had played other instruments (guitar,violin) and were exposed to music in grade school. They are both very very good and are teaching music. They aren't selling out concert halls, but they both earned Master's Degrees in music as pianists. Of course they were in their early 50's when I met them. They didn't become that good overnight!


Edited by Kbeaumont (08/20/12 09:54 AM)
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#1946107 - 08/20/12 12:23 PM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: TrapperJohn]
1RC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 497
Loc: Alberta
Originally Posted By: TrapperJohn
I went from student to practiced musician at precisely 1,876 hours (I remember the remarkable transition clearly), and from practiced musician to advanced performer at exactly 4,732 hours (I can still feel the thrill of the surge of power & efficiency)...

But while this may be motivating & encouraging to some of you (especially those of you in a big hurry to get real good) you should not necessarily expect these results...outcomes will vary...log your own personal hours...

Trap


hahah!

What I find more meaningful is ye ole goal setting. Beginning with the grand longterm goals everyone loves to dream about and then actually plugging it into a timeframe and then shorter term goals right down to what I can do today to get one step in that direction.

It's still a bit of a crapshoot to be honest, but I always felt like counting hours was too similar to punching a clock.

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#1946160 - 08/20/12 01:36 PM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: Brian Lucas]
CebuKid Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1174
Originally Posted By: Brian Lucas
Originally Posted By: -Frycek
I wonder if we scared him off - - -
Maybe he was 39 when he posted, just had a birthday and now this subject no longer applies.

My thoughts, you're going to age anyway, might as well go for it. In response to the "Do you know how old I'll be when I finally get good at piano?" question, I always say, "Yep, the same age you'll be if you don't learn!"


I think it's never too late, and if the OP never does it - for fear of never being able to reach an "advanced level" - he will forever live with regret.

I'd like to take a moment and pat all of the members of the ABF in the back. smile So many people go through life just *talking* about doing something. For example, my sister, a natural artist, recently said that "one day, I'll get a canvas and paint something." I asked her, "why not right now??!! What is stopping you? Go to the hobby store and pick up a canvas and some oil-based paint." Or...another common conversation that I have with people: "You play piano?" "Yes, I took it up again at age 38." "I'd like to learn piano one day." I think what sets *us* apart is that we actually pulled the trigger and did it.

The OP sounds like he's "on the fence" with totally ensconcing himself into piano, and again, because he's afraid he'll never play at "an advanced level" (<--- whatever that means...lol).. Not sure what defines that..."Fantasie Impromptu?" lol. Anyway, the moral of my story is...just do it!! Who cares how *far* you get or if it takes you 10,000 hours. smile
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#1946196 - 08/20/12 02:40 PM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
BBM Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 30
Loc: USA
I’m so thankful for all the wonderful comments from the forum! When I stared the thread, I was thinking about the Chopin Etudes as the advanced level pieces. I’m seriously think about taking the plunge to upgrade my little upright (spend 1k last year on it) to a mid-size grand. However, I doubt myself that will develop sufficient technically to deserve a mid-size grand due to the practice time/age…etc. This is also a huge financial commitment…….
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#1946212 - 08/20/12 02:58 PM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 528
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: BBM
I’m seriously think about taking the plunge to upgrade my little upright (spend 1k last year on it) to a mid-size grand. However, I doubt myself that will develop sufficient technically to deserve a mid-size grand due to the practice time/age…etc. This is also a huge financial commitment…….


Just do it if you can. I am going to buy a grand next spring and I am not an advanced player at all. But I have realized that having a good instrument that suits you actually makes it easier to learn. I can do the difficult technical stuff much better on my teacher's two grands than my own upright, which makes the practicing frustrating sometimes...I tend to get bad habits when I practice at home that go away when at the lesson and then return after a week, because I just can't get a good sound from my own piano and I try to compensate for that.

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#1946594 - 08/21/12 09:33 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
Cmajor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 229
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BBM
I’m so thankful for all the wonderful comments from the forum! When I stared the thread, I was thinking about the Chopin Etudes as the advanced level pieces. I’m seriously think about taking the plunge to upgrade my little upright (spend 1k last year on it) to a mid-size grand. However, I doubt myself that will develop sufficient technically to deserve a mid-size grand due to the practice time/age…etc. This is also a huge financial commitment…….


BBM,

We are all here for a very brief period... if you want a grand get a grand. A car is a major investment too but the shine wears off, for most of us, very rapidly. A grand may inspire you to greater heights of achievement and will certainly beautify your home as well... for many, many years to come. Your "baby" will provide countless hours of enjoyment for you and for others, something a vehicle usually can't provide.

Compared to the annual upkeep for a vehicle semi annual tunings for a grand in good shape is a drop in the bucket. The only fuel needed for your grand is you.

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#1946596 - 08/21/12 09:38 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: outo]
Cmajor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 229
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: outo
Originally Posted By: BBM
I’m seriously think about taking the plunge to upgrade my little upright (spend 1k last year on it) to a mid-size grand. However, I doubt myself that will develop sufficient technically to deserve a mid-size grand due to the practice time/age…etc. This is also a huge financial commitment…….


Just do it if you can. I am going to buy a grand next spring and I am not an advanced player at all. But I have realized that having a good instrument that suits you actually makes it easier to learn. I can do the difficult technical stuff much better on my teacher's two grands than my own upright, which makes the practicing frustrating sometimes...I tend to get bad habits when I practice at home that go away when at the lesson and then return after a week, because I just can't get a good sound from my own piano and I try to compensate for that.


Well said Outo and very true. I too have had a similar experience which has led me put a deposit on a Hailun 178 just this past weekend.

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#1947630 - 08/23/12 03:11 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: -Frycek]
Tech 5 Offline
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Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 194
Loc: South Carolina
Do you think 15 min. sessions that equal to 1 to 2 hours per day is as good as solid time at the piano of an hour or two duration? Do you think that inconsistency in the length of time at the piano each day has an effect on progress. For instance, when I have a day off, I practice all throughout the day spending multiple 15 min sessions at the piano. On the days I work, I can only spend time at the piano in the evening for 30 min to an hour.

Thanks
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"Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do."
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#1947634 - 08/23/12 03:32 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: Tech 5]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 528
Loc: Finland
In any complicated activity there's a limit of time that your brain can really work efficiently. This of course varies, but it is not very long in general. So it would be much more efficient to divide the practice time in shorter session.

But if you practice different things so that you kind of reset the brain in between, then you can have long practice session that still are effective. My maximum time with a short piece is not very long, maybe 5-10 minutes smile So I always have several pieces and alternate between them and also alternate between the sections of a piece and HT/HS practice.

On the other hand for some people (like me) it takes a bit of a time to really focus on what you are doing. Then it is useful to start the practice session with something easy or scales. I think of it as mental warm up, I don't think you really need physical warm up to play the piano (unless you are playing something really fast and difficult).

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#1947738 - 08/23/12 10:04 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: Tech 5]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5448
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: Virginia Larson
Do you think 15 min. sessions that equal to 1 to 2 hours per day is as good as solid time at the piano of an hour or two duration? Do you think that inconsistency in the length of time at the piano each day has an effect on progress. For instance, when I have a day off, I practice all throughout the day spending multiple 15 min sessions at the piano. On the days I work, I can only spend time at the piano in the evening for 30 min to an hour.

Thanks


This is the way I work most often, and I've found significant improvement over the last year or so (and the folks in the ABF recital seem to agree smile ) So, yes, I think it works well. And I can really focus for that 15 - 30 minutes and don't get burnt out. So I think you're on track.

Cathy
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#1948221 - 08/24/12 01:59 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
I think any practice is better than no practice and daily practice of whatever duration is much more effective than sporadic practice. I'm afraid I'm one of those three or more hour a day serious amateurs. I didn't start out that way. I learned as a kid, practically lived on the bench as a teenager, then lived a piano deprived life from my 20's to my 40's. About fifteen years ago after my mother, in the process of redecorating her living room, finally relinquished my piano supposedly so that my daughter could take lessons - anyone else see the irony of that? The kid didn't take to it. The piano languished unplayed in my living room for years. Then my husband (the trumpet player) decided he wanted to learn to play and had it tuned. His interest waned after about a week, but I sat my very rusty self down the following October planning to make myself practice thirty minutes a day so I could play a few carols by Christmas. That was the innocent beginning of my readdiction. Soon I'd graduated to the hard stuff, Chopin and Bach and other reprobates. I tend to have two practice sessions, one very early in the morning (I keep milkman hours) before I go to work and I usually get in 1 1/2 - 2 hours spread out over about three hours. Then I have another session in the evening, usually after I've taken a bit of a nap (I get home around five) That would be another 1 - 2 hours spread over about three hours. I make myself a weekly schedule (schedule highly recommended) and try to adhere to it. That way I manage to keep my "repetoire" up and still work on new pieces. There are some pieces I work on every single day but for no more than 15 minutes at the time. Some I work on for 20 minutes a couple of times a weeks. I try to give new pieces and long pieces that I'm trying to polish get about 40 minutes every day.
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#1948239 - 08/24/12 02:55 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: knotty]
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 944
Loc: Bulgaria
Originally Posted By: knotty
The ears of a 4 year old are incredibly better than those of a 9 year old.
If a child learns English at age 10, he will forever have an accent.
If he does at age 5, he will not.
If he does at age 21, he will have a thick one.

It doesn't even need to be conscious practice or lessons. You can throw in all the 10s of thousands of hours you want. The 5 year old wins. Without a sweat. :-)


What? I was probably 10 when I began studying English, I have no accent whatsoever and I can speak fluently without hesitation, I don't even think in my native language when I speak English. And the ears of a what? Are you serious? I am 24, a few nights ago I was having wine and dinner with some friends and they are from Czech. They were speaking and this was about my 10th time going out with them. Some of the time they spoke in Czech amongst them and at one point I understood a huge chunk of conversation. I stopped them and said I know what you just said and I translated everything. They were amazed and started trying to teach me a little bit of the language. Their language has bizarre pronunciations and double consonants. I was able to learn a lot of those by repeating phrases and words and I had NO ACCENT, and I repeated them with the same intonation and pronunciation they were given to me. Some took 3-4 tries but I got them. Don't believe this age crap at all. To be honest, I am just your average person when it comes to brain capacity. If I can do it, most people can too. You just need to listen, really listen and make sense of things. They just connect if you open your mind. I have major problems remembering things I learn (not music though) and I forget a lot of important things and I am abscent minded. So I'm not special but when I pull myself together and try, good things happen eventually smile

We are capable of SO MUCH more than we believe we are. And these limiting beliefs make our lives miserable. Get rid of them and start doing what you love.


Edited by Teodor (08/24/12 03:06 AM)
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#1948241 - 08/24/12 03:03 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
MaryAnn Offline
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Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 388
Loc: Japan
There is definitely a critical period for accent-less language learning in humans, but it varies hugely from person to person. In addition to age being important, having a good ear also makes a difference.

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#1948243 - 08/24/12 03:08 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
Teodor Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 944
Loc: Bulgaria
The point is he can be as advanced as he wants to in piano and anything he sets his mind to. And honestly, you don't need an internet forum to confirm that. What if someone here said NO YOU CANT! Would you listen? I hope not. Just go for it, you'll be surprised after a while of what you can do.


Edited by Teodor (08/24/12 03:09 AM)
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#1948247 - 08/24/12 03:28 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
Originally Posted By: Teodor
We are capable of SO MUCH more than we believe we are. And these limiting beliefs make our lives miserable. Get rid of them and start doing what you love.


Teodor is 24 and picking up Czech. I'm almost 60 and over the past ten years I've picked up a lot of Russian from a coworker just from listening to her talk to her husband on the phone. It's never too late to learn if you allow your mind to be receptive. My Russian friend didn't even begin learning English until she was 60. She's 73 now, holds a job and has passed her citizenship test five years ago. Yes, she speaks with a heavy Russian accent -she sounds just like Natasha on Rocky and Bullwinkle- but she speaks fluently and reads English almost as well as I do.
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#1948301 - 08/24/12 07:18 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2991
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Teo,

I was merely picking up on the 10,000 rule and linking it to age, which I believe is the intent of the author.
I'm happy to hear that you can repeat sentences in a foreign language with "NO ACCENT". In my opinion, this is extraordinary.

Having said that, learning an instrument at any age, but especially as an adult, is one of the best things you can do to yourself. We see it time and time again on this forum, especially at the recital. Guys that have played 6 months and killing on the piano.

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#1948410 - 08/24/12 11:31 AM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: -Frycek]
Playagain Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 239
Frycek,
Thanks for posting about your readdiction! That's how I came back to the piano, too, after many years--trying out some Christmas carols, and I'm addicted again, too.

A weekly schedule is a good idea--I'll try that. I'm taking lessons and so I add new pieces now and then, but I need to add more practice time to keep up some of my older ones.

Do you play for anyone, or do you practice that much just for your own pleasure? I just wondered because sometimes I don't know why I'm working so hard but I keep wanting to get more skill, more technique, and more musical, but it's not easy for me to play in front of others, except very close family. My husband has said that I'm putting so much pressure on myself, but I think that's just the way I am when I want to learn anything. Having lessons helps me focus, too, and pushes me to work harder.

Thanks!
Kathy
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#1948555 - 08/24/12 03:03 PM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
JimF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/09
Posts: 1674
Loc: south florida
Originally Posted By: Teodor
And honestly, you don't need an internet forum to confirm that. What if someone here said NO YOU CANT! Would you listen? I hope not.


+1 amen to that
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#1948568 - 08/24/12 03:31 PM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: Playagain]
1RC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 497
Loc: Alberta
Originally Posted By: Playagain
Do you play for anyone, or do you practice that much just for your own pleasure? I just wondered because sometimes I don't know why I'm working so hard but I keep wanting to get more skill, more technique, and more musical, but it's not easy for me to play in front of others, except very close family. My husband has said that I'm putting so much pressure on myself, but I think that's just the way I am when I want to learn anything. Having lessons helps me focus, too, and pushes me to work harder.


Performing in some capacity is important to me. I think most people find music intrinsically rewarding, but I don't feel complete until there's also the extrinsic goal of sharing it with other ears. It's a social urge.

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#1948599 - 08/24/12 04:14 PM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: 1RC]
Playagain Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 239
Thanks, 1RC,
I wonder if I'll ever get to that point. It would be nice to feel more confident to play in front of others and share music.
Kathy
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#1948658 - 08/24/12 06:26 PM Re: Is it possible to become an advance player at 30s? [Re: BBM]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...I’m so thankful for all the wonderful comments from the forum! When I stared the thread, I was thinking about the Chopin Etudes as the advanced level pieces. I’m seriously think about taking the plunge to upgrade my little upright (spend 1k last year on it) to a mid-size grand. However, I doubt myself that will develop sufficient technically to deserve a mid-size grand due to the practice time/age…etc. This is also a huge financial commitment……."

It is a big financial commitment; you are doing well to think it over carefully. Besides the purchase, there are lessons (not cheap), tuning and maintenance, and the daily time commitment--- the most expensive item of the bunch.

"What do you deserve," is an interesting question. I think many of us can be very grateful that we do not get what we deserve! But as for getting a better piano that you can grow into (instead of outgrowing), those other questions are the more important ones... or anyway, the more answerable ones.

We may not have the perspective to know what we deserve, anyway. When a pack of tainted televangelists were going on TV happily announcing, "AIDS is God's punishment on the homosexuals," someone asked Reverend Billy Graham what he thought about it. After a moment's thought, he replied, "I don't believe these people are in a position to know God's intentions."

While you're thinking about those first questions, you could shop for pianos, and learn more about what's out there and what you might want. That's a commitment of time and effort, but it doesn't cost anything, at least, not immediately. In fact, doing some smart shopping can save you some cash AND help make you more deserving (for it is good deeds which give us this feeling). Going through the process may help you to clarify your thinking. Get the mid-size grand, or keep the upright--- it's possible to be happy either way, and it's also possible to progress as a musician. Chopin loved his little Pleyel upright, and I like to think he would be happy to see you attempting his Etudes on yours--- happier than he would be to see you wait until you were deserving enough to have a go at them. His life story makes a good case for not waiting too long.
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Clef


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