Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner How good do you think Chopin's technique was?

Could he play his 24 etudes with ease? Did the technique of his day even come close to the technical wizards of today?

I think one thing to keep in mind, especially during a time period for which we have no recordings, is quite literally the "period" in which any comments about the artists are made. One can say, "Liszt played it flawlessly!" but that may mean something completely different in the 19th century than in the 21st. Today, we would think he played without technical error, but in the middle 19th century, that simply could have meant his expression was spot-on, and a missed note or two was ignored.

That said, I think Chopin would probably be very capable of playing his own pieces. As a very hackneyed and horrible composer (speaking, of course, about myself and not Chopin), I find that I cannot fathom writing something that is intended to be played by someone that I could not play myself. (Of course, I could write four octaves of notes and say, "This is impossible!" but if I want to write something that could actually be played, I would most-likely have to stick within the limits of my own imagination, which typically means my own ability, or reasonably thereof.)

While the huge majority of great composers for the piano were also great pianists, there were definitely exceptions who could not adequately play some of their own music. Two of them would be Ravel and Schubert.

Composers routinely write for instruments they can't play at all, much less expertly, so I don't understand your point of view.

Composers don't practice. Ravel could have been a great pianist if he practiced. He won a piano competition over Cortot in his early years.

No doubt.


Probably way close, but hard to say because (I have the impression) his technique was of such a different nature than what you're talking about, with different priorities and emphases, that it would be hard to express such a comparison even if we were hearing him play.

Could Chopin have played his etudes with ease on the modern piano? Were the pianos of his time easier to play in some ways? Anyone know?

-J

Easier to press the keys down. Easier to play faster. Easier to get clarity of sound. Harder or impossible to do other things.

If you're old enough to have learned typing on a "manual" and then moved to an electric, which you aren't that's a little bit like the reverse of what you're asking about.

I'm not sure he won a compeition over Cortot. Having read a biography of Ravel I got the strong sense that Ravel was never particularly good, by conservatory standards, as a pianist at any point on his life.

I also don't think it's true that "composers don't practice". Some certainly may not practice as much as full times pianists, but many others were performimg virtuosos and had to practice a reasonable amount.

Very good point. I must admit, I waned poetic there at what, 4:30am? We had a nasty thunderstorm swing through and I couldn't sleep much. I will, for the moment, set aside taste (I am not a huge fan of either of those composer's solo piano works, with very few exceptions of Schubert, but my personal taste should not weigh on the conversation).

Perhaps we should amend my statement to include, "...that I could not play myself, or have not heard someone else play." This would allow for non-pianists to certainly compose adequately for the piano, which many do, while also suggesting that the great pianist composers were the ones who advanced the musicality and technicality of the instrument. (This, I think was probably more to my point, considering we were originally looking at Chopin's Etudes, and at 4:30am, my brain was in the sack.)


See above, my friend. I think I began answering this in my further discussion with pianoloverus.

The best - if quite incomplete - answer to this question is to read what the critics of his day had to say of his playing as well as his own writings on piano technique and style.

He does write, (20 June, 1833) how much he envies Liszt's playing of his (Chopin's) Etudes : "I'm writing you without really knowing what I am scribbling because Liszt is playing my Etudes at the moment and is transporting me beyond any reasonable senses." [my translation from the French].

Critics have written that, even in his younger years, his tone, full of shading and infinite variety was nevertheless not robust; some complained that his sound was inadequate to fill the halls on the very rare occasions he played in public. Others admired the suppleness of his technique, the ease with which he played.

That said, of course that was judged against the technical standards of his day which were not necessarily those that we use as modern standards.

Regards,

Look, dudes -- don't forget, we have VIDEO of him playing!
This should easily erase any doubts.



Yeah, some measures and stuff are left out -- but y'know how it is, anyone can have memory lapses....

what a stupid idea: that Chopin wouldn't be able to play his own etudes, who would be capable of inventing such audacious novelties without the tools to execute them, why, this space must serve something more useful than this.

I didn't understand the question to be whether he could play his compositions at all, but rather how well he played those (and other) works.

Personally, I don't view that as a stupid question. A lot of composers have been okay-but-not-great pianists.

Of course!

people who doubt genius's capabilities, like that of Chopin's, should question their own. Could Bach play his Goldberg-variations, did Liszt actually toss off Mazeppa, and how was the premiere of Mahler's 8th under his own baton, let's not question those things, let's accept them and be humble and strive..

Stuff and nonsense.

No one doubts Chopin's ability as a composer. But is there anything to suggest that, as a pianist, he should be mentioned in the same breath as Liszt? I'm certainly willing to consider any evidence that may exist. I'm not willing simply to assume that he was a great pianist just BECAUSE he was a great composer. That's a non sequitur.

Could Tchaikovsky and Brahms play their violin concertos?

Would repeated notes have been more difficult?

Good question -- I don't know! I'd guess yes.
Let's see if someone does know....

And come to think of it, wouldn't we think repeated notes would be even harder on a harpsichord? Yet Scarlatti wrote all that repeated note stuff....