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Topic Options
#1948145 - 08/23/12 10:29 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Maybe someone should start a new thread: "How to Pronounce Piano Brand Names"

How about:

Blüthner
Rönisch
Euterpe
Ibach (gotta love the eye-back!)
etc
etc
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#1948154 - 08/23/12 10:46 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1523
Loc: Danville, California
Yeah I have trouble with

Yamaha

I mean, is it...

Ya MA ha

YA ma ha

Ya ma HA

I struggle with it.

And I have a friend named Chuck who always tells me he has a

KIAWA

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#1948187 - 08/24/12 12:25 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: J_D]
Mike Carr Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 714
Loc: BANNED

JD,

Quote:
I second that! The "Hailun Hater" strikes again!


You'd think by now I wouldn't underestimate the insecurity of Hailun owners and dealers. But if agreeing with Sparky (isn't he a mensa candidate by now?) will make your Hailun piano sound better, I'm more than happy to help.

Norbert,

Quote:
Quote:
The quality of a dealer (whatever that means) has no bearing on the quality of a piano unless they modify the piano’s structure or components.

First price award for the most ignorant statement ever made.


It would help if you qualify your statement (First price?). I know logical thought is not your forte, but you can at least give us a glimpse into your mental process, er, on second thought . . .


Mike
_________________________
smoke 'em if you got 'em

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#1948204 - 08/24/12 01:24 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14120
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Not a problem.

Very happy to compare or have anybody compare a properly set up, well prepped piano against any of yours delivered in crate and shoved into customer's home.

Only disadvantage: our way "costs" dealers a bit more...

Norbert frown


Edited by Norbert (08/24/12 01:25 AM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1948222 - 08/24/12 02:00 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: BoseEric]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7148
Loc: torrance, CA
Originally Posted By: BoseEric
Turandot, you are forcing me to re-evaluate my whole web strategy. Who would have thought people would read the stuff!


Well, yeah. I'm a sucker for pulp fiction. grin

Since a member in Brazil has asked on this thread about a Feurich/Ningbo 218, maybe I could coax you to get even more specific (chuckle) about that one. I played a Haiun 218 and thought it had a lot to offer. A European piano savant who's been around the block and whom I trust thinks it has great promise, even as a concert instrument.

From reading your stuff, it seems that the Feurich version is true to the original -- Paullelo's strings and chosen hammers as well as his fourth pedal option. What does Feurich "seek" grin to accomplish beyond that?
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#1948311 - 08/24/12 07:44 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
BoseEric Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 731
Loc: Fairfield County, CT
Well, lets see. I think the screws in the music desk hinges could be changed to slot heads, in keeping with the European color we're looking for (!)

I have only seen 3 model 218's and my reaction was the same...there is really something there. However those were quick impressions of 3 different pianos in 3 different places. I have only in the past 2 weeks received one that I can work on and spend some time with. Piano Craft also got one so it will be interesting to see how these 2 pianos develop ... one in the hands of master craftsman with superior skills and the other in the hands of a non-value-adding dealer.

Now, THAT WAS A JOKE!!!! It was meant to humorously poke fun at the idea that all technicians and pianos are the same and a dealer cannot add value to a piano. The people at Piano Craft have superhuman skill, profound understanding and they make a mean cup of coffee. Their 218 will be, I'm sure, beautiful.

The real experiment would be to have 3 identical pianos in the same location, 2 prepared by different people and one in tuned but otherwise unprepared state. One would see the subtle differences that can be brought out of the same model and might encourage people to spend more maintaining their own pianos.

I am interested in the 4th pedal but have not brought any pianos in with that feature yet. We're still ramping up and I don't have the depth of resources to bring in instruments with these kinds of specific and possibly slow selling features (same with wood and white finish). However I'm happy to take an order!
_________________________
RPT. In the business: Feurich pianos, Neupert harpsichords, Hidrau benches, piano technician

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#1948358 - 08/24/12 09:54 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9143
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted By: BoseEric
The real experiment would be to have 3 identical pianos in the same location, 2 prepared by different people and one in tuned but otherwise unprepared state. One would see the subtle differences that can be brought out of the same model and might encourage people to spend more maintaining their own pianos.


We will regularly prepare the same model of piano side by side with a different final performance, Eric. Come to think of it, you might already know this.

We do this to show inexperienced customers what is possible in preparation and how any particular piano can be improved, changed, or customized in its performance.

It is this type of work that can add incredible value to any pianist with any musical discrimination. I accept that if you are offering spinets to total beginners this would be a waste of time.

My 2 cents,
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

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#1948380 - 08/24/12 10:24 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
BoseEric Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 731
Loc: Fairfield County, CT
Rich, you and I are brothers from another mother when it comes to the importance of prep. I know that has always been a hallmark of Cunningham. It would still be interesting to have 2 different techs each prepare examples of the same model.

It would be interesting, but practical is another story. The piano needs to be high enough quality to show the differences and then one has to ask if the effort (2 different techs preparing the same model) will pay off in sales. As I said, it would be interesting.
_________________________
RPT. In the business: Feurich pianos, Neupert harpsichords, Hidrau benches, piano technician

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#1948408 - 08/24/12 11:29 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14120
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
. It would still be interesting to have 2 different techs each prepare examples of the same model.


That's indeed very interesting.

For our top pianos like Sauter and Estonia we are regularly using 2 concert techs who are both fine pianists themselves.

But they also have their own touch/tone ideal.

It's become easy for me to tell "which is which" - each leaving his own signature.

A fantastic way to show customers the variability of instruments and how it all can be applied to own's preference.

Norbert thumb
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1948430 - 08/24/12 12:05 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: BoseEric]
Mike Carr Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 714
Loc: BANNED
Boseric,

Since you no longer work for Bosendorfer and are apparently, for the moment, Feurich’s stateside front man shouldn’t you change your handle to Feric?

This seems like the first time I recall that a German piano maker not totally defunct has stenciled its name intact on a Chinese product. Will you be able to determine the Feurich “inspired” Hailuns at a glance? A “C” above the i? Seriously, how many of the German made Feurichs, the real thing so to speak, were sold in the states last year? The year before that?

And isn’t this enthusiasm for dealer prep just another marketing device for dealer profit? Like an extended warranty or an auto dealer coating the underside of new cars with a “secret recipe” that’s marked up 400 per cent?

Why isn’t post factory prep best done in the customers home as in the case of Steinway and Shigeru?

All this talk about techs prepping an instrument depends a lot on their work, as far as touch and tone, coinciding with a given customer’s, whoever happens to walk in the door, er, dreams. Otherwise the “quality” dealer has his work cut out convincing the customer what is good for them, which just happens to be what they have on their floor at the moment. Or as one dealer describes this process, “to show inexperienced customers what is possible in preparation and how any particular piano can be improved, changed, or customized in its performance . . .”

Turandot,

This is probably old news but didn’t Petrof join the Hailun distribution network?

Mike
_________________________
smoke 'em if you got 'em

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#1948472 - 08/24/12 01:01 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9143
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted By: Mike Carr
Why isn’t post factory prep best done in the customers home as in the case of Steinway and Shigeru?


Nobody said work in the home was not necessary Mike.

Tremendous prep. does not usually mean that a dealer can command more money for a certain piano (but sometimes it does). What it does mean is that the dealer will gain a reputation for having great pianos with the people that matter most - pianists.

This can lead to more referrals, which can lead to more sales.
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

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#1948497 - 08/24/12 01:34 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Furtwangler]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 852
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Originally Posted By: Furtwangler
Yeah I have trouble with

Yamaha

I mean, is it...

Ya MA ha

YA ma ha

Ya ma HA

I struggle with it.



It's yah-mah-ha with virtually no accent. Japanese is very lightly accented if at all. For example, we (incorrectly) pronounce the nightclub singing game: care-ee-OH-kee. In japanese it's: kah-reh-oh-keh with some speaker swallowing the second "a". The city destroyed at the end of war II is hi-roh-shi-mah not hee-row-SHEE-mah as it is pronounced here in the U.S.

Kurt



Kurt
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#1948502 - 08/24/12 01:38 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14120
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
All this talk about techs prepping an instrument depends a lot on their work, as far as touch and tone, coinciding with a given customer’s, whoever happens to walk in the door, er, dreams.


"Whoever walks into the door" may be the case of your piano business, for others shoppers often come from far away seeking that something special.

Nice to be able serving 2 different groups...

Norbert thumb


Edited by Norbert (08/24/12 01:38 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1948538 - 08/24/12 02:40 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Mike Carr]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mike Carr
Why isn’t post factory prep best done in the customers home as in the case of Steinway and Shigeru?
Because most pianos will not sound/play that good without a reasonable amount of prep and many buyers would not want to choose a piano based on how they hoped it would sound/play.

Shigerus and Steinways are not unprepped when they come from the factory and are also prepped by dealers(Steinway maybe less than some other makes or moe depending on the particular dealer). Shigeru offers additional in home prep by one of their master techs to improve the piano further and customize it more.

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#1948540 - 08/24/12 02:43 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Norbert]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Quote:
. It would still be interesting to have 2 different techs each prepare examples of the same model.


That's indeed very interesting.

For our top pianos like Sauter and Estonia we are regularly using 2 concert techs who are both fine pianists themselves.
ESP(Endless Self Promotion)

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#1948566 - 08/24/12 03:23 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14120
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
ESP(Endless Self Promotion)


Pianoloverus:

I was keeping this back for a long time.
While you are hiding behind a Synonym, I know who you are.

I want you to know that the New York dealers you visited during your own piano shopping spree are still talking about you.

According to them, your case was the worst customer "self-promotion" they could remember. Some of them said you "drove them plain nuts" Others described you as "customer from h..."

Perhaps time to humble yourself a bit with your endless accusations of others - and me in particular.

Now bash me all you want - I'm off to someone's wedding..
Have fun!

Norbert thumb


Edited by Norbert (08/24/12 03:29 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#1948587 - 08/24/12 03:56 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Norbert]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19230
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Quote:
ESP(Endless Self Promotion)


Pianoloverus:

I was keeping this back for a long time.
While you are hiding behind a Synonym, I know who you are.

I want you to know that the New York dealers you visited during your own piano shopping spree are still talking about you.

According to them, your case was the worst customer "self-promotion" they could remember. Some of them said you "drove them plain nuts" Others described you as "customer from h..."

Plenty of members know who I am. I don't know if you do because you wrote many very silly posts in the past accusing me of being an industry professional.

I cannot fathom what you think "customer self promotion" means...it's a meaningless phrase.

I basically dealt with only one dealer so there are no dealerS. I have gotten a lot of very friendly and detailed advice from various PW dealers via PM.

The details of my piano shopping have nothing to do with your ESP. Endless Self Promotion was used by another member to describe your posts...I was only clever enough to think of the acronym.


Edited by pianoloverus (08/25/12 10:57 AM)

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#1948592 - 08/24/12 04:04 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8422
Loc: Georgia, USA
Wow, a lot of folks participating in this thread got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning...

Who was it that said “can’t we all get along?” (The late Rodney King?)

Lets stop beating each other up so badly...

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1948607 - 08/24/12 04:37 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Rickster]
jmcintyre Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 228
Loc: Wash. DC area
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Who was it that said “can’t we all get along?


It seems like a lot of people on PW have said something to that effect lately. Ironically it also seems like it's been the kiss of death for civility in any thread in which it appears. Friends, please prove me wrong!
_________________________
I'd rather be practicing wink
Kawai K-3, Roland FP-7F
Now: Brahms Op. 118, Bach French Suite #5

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#1948615 - 08/24/12 04:58 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
BoseEric Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 731
Loc: Fairfield County, CT
Wow...Mike Carr is picking on me!! I must have made it into the big time!
_________________________
RPT. In the business: Feurich pianos, Neupert harpsichords, Hidrau benches, piano technician

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#1948619 - 08/24/12 05:03 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
My guess is the proverbial question to "why can't we all get along" is akin to
Professor Higgins saying "why can't a woman be more like a man?" smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Doz5w2W-jAY


Edited by Bob Newbie (08/24/12 05:06 PM)

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#1949001 - 08/25/12 02:22 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: BoseEric]
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9143
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted By: BoseEric
Wow...Mike Carr is picking on me!! I must have made it into the big time!


Woo-hoo!! Way to go Eric! thumb
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

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#1949086 - 08/25/12 05:55 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Rich Galassini]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2691
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini
Originally Posted By: BoseEric
Wow...Mike Carr is picking on me!! I must have made it into the big time!


Woo-hoo!! Way to go Eric! thumb

And here is your T-shirt.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bsendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#1949114 - 08/25/12 07:08 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8422
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: PianoWorksAtl
And here is your T-shirt.

Now that's hard to beat, Sam. smile

I wonder if Mike realizes just how popular he is around here. smile

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1949125 - 08/25/12 08:01 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: Rickster]
PaintedPostDave Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 524
Loc: Upstate New York
For Norbert:


_________________________
Dave Koenig
Yamaha M1A console
1927 Knabe 7' 8" grand
https://sites.google.com/site/analysisofsoundsandvibrations/

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#1949436 - 08/26/12 04:02 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 852
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
This childish taunting should be beneath all of you. You especially Rick, who keeps asking for civility. If Mike Carr's acerbity and pointed posting style are not your cup of tea, ignore him and keep mashing the "report" button as it suits you.

good day,

Kurt
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#1949442 - 08/26/12 04:14 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8422
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: KurtZ
This childish taunting should be beneath all of you. You especially Rick, who keeps asking for civility. If Mike Carr's acerbity and pointed posting style are not your cup of tea, ignore him and keep mashing the "report" button as it suits you.

good day,

Kurt

Glad we can all have our say... and, you are probably right; I should not have joined in; but, to be honest, the tee-shirt thing did make me chuckle a little, and I saw no harm in it.

Mike Carr is well known for his fiery and flaming opinions and has no qualms about speaking his mind… and, I’m quite sure he can take a joke.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#1949557 - 08/26/12 08:54 PM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
Ganging up on Mike to beat him up, is unlikely to get you where you expect; these things can have a way of backfiring. Going too far is a time-tested comedic technique, and I'm sure Mike can take a joke--- I'm just not sure I heard one.

I want one of those t-shirts--- but you can leave pianoloverus off, and I'd like to see some color, a v-neck collar, and an eye-catching graphic. Furiously typing fingers, and the flat-screen belching smoke and flames, Carr's face in profile with a devilish smile. Now, that's a t-shirt.

Of course, he's not exactly a household name, and it would take a tiresome amount of explaining anywhere except a Pianoworld convention (and I have never heard of such a thing, nor imagined one).
_________________________
Clef


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#1949614 - 08/27/12 12:08 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2691
Loc: Atlanta, GA
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bsendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#1949624 - 08/27/12 12:22 AM Re: Feurich vs Hailun [Re: elil]
ThePawn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/10
Posts: 40
Loc: Alabama
I am a regular lurker on the piano forum and I got something on my mind. Pianoloverus follows Norbert around from post to post like he is on a witch hunt. What in the heck is Norbert supposed to do when he relates stories from his own experience?? Is he supposed to never ever talk about his product lines or relate stories about them to avoid this dumb "ESP" crap from you? I wish there was a way for me to put you on ignore for your Norbert follow up posts because other than that, you are an interesting poster. I have read some really good stuff from you in the pianist corner.

Jason
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Excited to be here!

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