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#1949275 - 08/26/12 09:30 AM Question for the pros...
Cmajor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 229
Loc: USA
I have a new (5 months old) Kawai K3 which has been tuned 2x since arriving in our home. Recently, the F6 thru B7 keys, when struck, produce a constant sound identical to the damper pedal being applied. It is only these keys but it is very annoying. I think the damper must not be contacting these strings. My question, before I call the dealer, is: is this a need for "regulation" or does this sound like some problem that would be covered under warranty?

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#1949276 - 08/26/12 09:36 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2481
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
You do not have a problem. There are no dampers up in that area. The shorter strings in the treble area do not produce as much sustain as the longer strings and piano manufacturers don't put dampers in there.
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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#1949281 - 08/26/12 09:42 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Emmery is right. You have only now discovered this.... NO pianos have dampers up that high....
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1949332 - 08/26/12 12:11 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Emmery]
Cmajor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 229
Loc: USA
Thanks Emmery and Jerry. I am a piano beginner and have not had much exposure to the higher registers until recently. It is a very abrupt change though and very noticeable.

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#1949342 - 08/26/12 12:36 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22778
Loc: Oakland
Sometimes the lowest notes without dampers become brighter than the adjacent notes with them. They are hit as hard as the adjacent notes, but the weight of the damper mechanism is not there to absorb some of the energy. It goes into the hammer, instead, so it becomes brighter faster. Someone who is adept at voicing can compensate for that.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#1949498 - 08/26/12 06:03 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2543
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
I recently had a customer with the very same concern. They were shocked when I showed them the high treble had no dampers - their first assumption was that it was a cost-cutting measure...
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#1949770 - 08/27/12 11:51 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: BDB]
Cmajor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 229
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BDB
Sometimes the lowest notes without dampers become brighter than the adjacent notes with them. They are hit as hard as the adjacent notes, but the weight of the damper mechanism is not there to absorb some of the energy. It goes into the hammer, instead, so it becomes brighter faster. Someone who is adept at voicing can compensate for that.


That is exactly the case.

The more I learn about acoustical pianos the more I realize what an intricate piece of machinery they are... thanks for the explanation. I am actually trading the K3 in on a baby grand so I just wanted to make sure there was not a warranty problem prior to the transaction.

I am purchasing a Hailun 178 and have payed particular attention to the higher octaves and the transition is much less noticeable.. to me anyway.

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#1949776 - 08/27/12 12:07 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: OperaTenor]
Zeno Wood Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 503
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I was once accused of stealing the dampers from a (ex-)customer's piano!
_________________________
Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College

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#1949918 - 08/27/12 04:15 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]
ando Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4193
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Cmajor


I am purchasing a Hailun 178 and have payed particular attention to the higher octaves and the transition is much less noticeable.. to me anyway.


The Hailun 178 has duplex scaling. Perhaps that extra "ring" on the notes with dampers makes the transition less abrupt.

It's a nice piano by the way, unbeatable at that price point, IMO.

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#1950038 - 08/27/12 08:25 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Zeno Wood]
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2451
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Zeno Wood
I was once accused of stealing the dampers from a (ex-)customer's piano!
Hey Zeno. (Looking furtively both ways) Can you give a really good deal on some itty bitty treble dampers? Huh?
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

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#1950053 - 08/27/12 09:04 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: David Jenson]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: David Jenson
Originally Posted By: Zeno Wood
I was once accused of stealing the dampers from a (ex-)customer's piano!
Hey Zeno. (Looking furtively both ways) Can you give a really good deal on some itty bitty treble dampers? Huh?

Q-Tips, Maybe?
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#1950071 - 08/27/12 10:06 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Zeno Wood]
rysowers Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2766
Loc: Olympia, WA
Originally Posted By: Zeno Wood
I was once accused of stealing the dampers from a (ex-)customer's piano!

Did you stash them with the ivory keys that I've heard of technicians stealing?
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#1950087 - 08/27/12 10:51 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]
Zeno Wood Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 503
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
That's right, I stockpile all those ivories and tiny dampers, hide them under my mattress!

It was actually a fairly contentious scene, there was no convincing her that the piano actually came that way. Had to call a technician friend and put her on the line.
_________________________
Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College

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#1950181 - 08/28/12 02:45 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Nice of you to leave the bass dampers, at least, Zeno....
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#1950227 - 08/28/12 06:32 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]
Olek Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 8533
Loc: France
I wonder if the customer is allowed to shoot the piano tuner if he feels that his piano is in danger ...
_________________________
Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.! Euh.... sorry for the lengthy postings, I cannot refrain writing !

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_africas_lions_loc/?tcltqeb

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#1950233 - 08/28/12 07:09 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Olek]
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2451
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Kamin
I wonder if the customer is allowed to shoot the piano tuner if he feels that his piano is in danger ...
I think they can in Texas and parts of Alabama especially if they catch you with a brown paper bag of tiny treble dampers and some assorted ivories!

Some of these things are funny ... after ... the incident is over!
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----

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#1950829 - 08/29/12 09:50 AM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: David Jenson]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2481
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
In addition to what has been already mentioned, the treble area of the piano that is not damped will add some additional brilliance to the piano when other notes below it are played (sympathetic vibration). Every now and then I will run into a piano where the first few undampened notes seem to indicate they could indeed benefit from dampers. It would not have been too difficult to do so; but I think they were left the way they are because of that additional sound they provide when playing in regions below it.
_________________________
Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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#1958049 - 09/12/12 08:22 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Emmery]
taterdiggr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/04/12
Posts: 5
Loc: KY
I've always wanted the dampers to go higher on pianos I play. At least another 6 or 8 notes higher. Are there any pianos that have more dampers? Surely some mfr. has done this at some point in time...?

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#1958050 - 09/12/12 08:24 PM Re: Question for the pros... [Re: Cmajor]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22778
Loc: Oakland
Old Steinway uprights had a lot of dampers. I think there were some Ibach grands which had more dampers. There were probably others.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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