Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#1948937 - 08/25/12 11:34 AM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Tech 5]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1779
Loc: Pennsylvania
My wife used to play bass in the local symphony orchestra. Even though she had been playing most of her life, she used the metronome as a significant tool. When I would hear her practicing, I would hear the metronome. She would play through a section of the music, then move the metronome a notch faster and play it again. She would continue in that fashion until she had it at performance speed. She also had a good sense of rhythm.

When I play through a section of music with the metronome going ... and I get it right on ... It gives me a sense of accomplishment. I know then that I have nailed it and may be ready to move on ... either faster ... or to the next part.

When I struggle with it on, I know it is because I really have not mastered it yet and I am trying to move through it too fast. The metronome tells me to stop and work on that part a bit more.

I don't like to hear that either. I, like all of us, wants to move on to the next part or the next piece of music. And, I can still do that. But I know the truth anyway. What I do with that truth is up to me.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

Top
(ads P/S)

Sauter Pianos

#1948951 - 08/25/12 12:04 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: jotur]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 529
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: jotur

And maybe, just maybe, you, too, may not be as solid on a tune as you want to think you are. Most people I know occasionally like to fool themselves laugh


Then again maybe I do. But only when it comes to rhythm. I have a lot of other problems. I am not one of those people who fool themselves, unfortunately quite opposite. I would just love to be able to ingore my mistakes and lack of fine touch. As my teacher says, my playing would be a lot better if I didn't require perfection all the time.

Top
#1948955 - 08/25/12 12:10 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: dmd]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 529
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: dmd

I don't like to hear that either. I, like all of us, wants to move on to the next part or the next piece of music. And, I can still do that. But I know the truth anyway. What I do with that truth is up to me.


I'm afraid I'm not like all the rest then, because I am never satisfied until I think it's perfect and because that can never happen I just keep working with the sections/pieces forever. When I leave them behind I leave them behind knowing that I never mastered them.

Top
#1948975 - 08/25/12 12:57 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Tech 5]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 852
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
As a working drummer 20 years ago, I simply had to get used to playing with a click track. 30 years of playing drums has given me a pretty easy feel for rhythm but I still keep the metronome close when I practice the piano and probably use it for some reason almost every day I practice.

A musician "hating" the metronome is like a carpenter hating the tape measure. If you've ever played any kind of flight or flying game on a game console, you may remember how at the beginning you over controlled and "chased" the plane with the joystick. This is what most people do when they start out on the metronome. If you want the benefits that accrue from well applied metronome practice, you need to slow down and introduce it on easier material. Scales, Short etudes, pieces from your easier books etc. If you do that for 5-15 minutes every day for a few weeks, I think you'll find that the hate diminishes and you'll reach for it when the need arises just like the carpenter reaches for his tape measure.

Kurt
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

Top
#1948976 - 08/25/12 01:00 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Tech 5]
Sand Tiger Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 993
Loc: Southern California
I don't like the metronome. I did find it useful when learning basic arpeggios.

/edit to add: outo's post which comes after this one, hits upon a good point. There are plenty of excellent musicians that don't use the metronome. Just because one person finds it valuable doesn't mean that the next person will. To personalize it, in terms of not having good rhythm, or being lazy, or not wanting the "truth" is inaccurate. For some the tension that it causes costs more than the benefits.

Can these musicians that don't like metronomes, learn to use it properly? Probably. However, it will take effort, and for some with tons of effort. People often think that everyone is like them, that if they took a day or a week to learn to use the metronome as a useful tool, it will take others the same time, and those that don't use it are lazy. For another person, for whatever reasons, it might be a year of dedicated work to get it to be a positive, and that year could be much better spent on learning other things and using other tools.

Listen to what the others are saying. If someone uses the word hate, it often is a visceral emotional response, that will take a lot of effort to overcome. I do not believe it has much to do with the case that the metronome users and lovers seem to be forwarding.



Edited by Sand Tiger (08/25/12 01:47 PM)
_________________________
my piano uploads

Top
#1948977 - 08/25/12 01:02 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Tech 5]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 529
Loc: Finland
This discussion has sort of lost focus. Yes, the thread says metronome hatred, but I don't think it is what were were talking about. I don't like the sound of the metronome and I also do not think it is as important in learning to play piano as some of you think. I have used it and will use it, but definitely not daily, not even weekly.
There are competent pianists who think it is an absolute must and those who don't. Results are what matters. And people get good results without a metronome.

Top
#1948988 - 08/25/12 01:48 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Tech 5]
tangleweeds Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 11 2012


Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 1269
Loc: Portlandia
One factor to consider if you hate your metronome: is it an electronic one that makes nasty little beepy sounds? Ugh, yes, metronomes with electronic beeps are annoying. They do make electronic ones that make nice realistic "tock" sounds, like the analog/mechanical kind. There is a site (metrnonomes.com, I think) which lets you listen to the sounds their various metronomes make.

I used to hate metronomes. Then, after a while, I learned to use them as tools to stress myself out. Often it's useful to see whether you can do a musical task under stress, since one is under stress when performing, accompanying, etc. So I started out by using the metronome as a purposeful stressor.

If you choose to do this, but find the metronome "impossible to play along with" then you need to slow it down. Just keep slowing it down until you find a tempo that you can play along without issues (philosophical digression: this is somewhat akin to the wisdom of experience where you learn to slow down your practice to where you make no mistakes).

I often use a brisk metronome to make slightly-too-easy sight reading material more stressful. Works wonders.

After I'd done this sort of stress-testing via metronome for a while, I completely got over my phobia, and the metronome became an extremely useful tool for polishing difficult bits of pieces. At this point, it's no skin off my ego to admit that if I can't play it with a metronome, then I don't really know it.

And no, I don't use a metronome because I suffer from some sort of broken sense of rhythm in need of repair. When I was younger and went out dancing at nightclubs, members of various bands asked if I was a musician, then told me I should be, because the rhythmic awareness in dancing kept catching their eye. (Back then I believed I was tone deaf and musically hopeless, so I got my musical "fix" via dancing).
_________________________
Oops... extremely distracted by mandolins at the moment... brb

neglected piano blog

Top
#1948992 - 08/25/12 01:55 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: tangleweeds]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 529
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: tangleweeds
One factor to consider if you hate your metronome: is it an electronic one that makes nasty little beepy sounds? Ugh, yes, metronomes with electronic beeps are annoying.


Mine is one of those yes. If I used it more I guess I could get one with a less annoying sound...

Top
#1948993 - 08/25/12 02:00 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: outo]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 529
Loc: Finland
I wonder, if you really use the metronome that much, what kind of music do you play? Because the difficulties in my pieces definitely are not in keeping time, they are in phrasing, dynamics and touch...

Top
#1949002 - 08/25/12 02:28 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Tech 5]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1779
Loc: Pennsylvania
Let me add another note concerning the notion that using a metronome in some way is the cause of tension and therefore you choose not to use it.

I might suggest this ...

Set the metronome to 90 bpm and play a single half-note on middle C for each beat of the metronome.

I am going to guess that you experience absolutely no tension.

That is because you have no anxiety with which note you need to play on that beat.

If you do experience tension, then you are right ... you have a phobia connected to a metronome and probably will not find it useful.

If you do not experience tension, believe it or not you can experience that same calm and lack of tension while playing a piece of music with the metronome going. All that is required is that you play it at a speed which gives you adequate time to determine the next note that is to be played.

Every teacher I have ever had always told me to not worry about playing it fast. Just get everything else right and with continued practice ... speed just happens.

After years of hearing it, I am finally a believer.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

Top
#1949003 - 08/25/12 02:31 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: dmd]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 529
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: dmd

Every teacher I have ever had always told me to not worry about playing it fast. Just get everything else right and with continued practice ... speed just happens.

After years of hearing it, I am finally a believer.



THAT is so true. But it is very hard to understand before you have experienced it yourself.

Top
#1949005 - 08/25/12 02:36 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: outo]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1779
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: outo
I wonder, if you really use the metronome that much, what kind of music do you play? Because the difficulties in my pieces definitely are not in keeping time, they are in phrasing, dynamics and touch...


In my case, I only use it for classical music which usually requires a steady tempo. And then, usually only for areas which I am struggling with. I will set the metronome to a speed where I am completely at ease playing that part and then slowly increase the speed while going over and over the part. My goal is to play it without hesitation. If I detect hesitation or tension, I back the speed down and play it at the slower speed a few more times and then try moving it up again.

I use it to help keep me honest about where I am with the piece I am working on. Without using a metronome I can rationalize mistakes as just a distraction or whatever. When I use the metronome it tells me the truth.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

Top
#1949016 - 08/25/12 02:54 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: dmd]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 529
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: outo
I wonder, if you really use the metronome that much, what kind of music do you play? Because the difficulties in my pieces definitely are not in keeping time, they are in phrasing, dynamics and touch...


In my case, I only use it for classical music which usually requires a steady tempo. And then, usually only for areas which I am struggling with. I will set the metronome to a speed where I am completely at ease playing that part and then slowly increase the speed while going over and over the part. My goal is to play it without hesitation. If I detect hesitation or tension, I back the speed down and play it at the slower speed a few more times and then try moving it up again.

I use it to help keep me honest about where I am with the piece I am working on. Without using a metronome I can rationalize mistakes as just a distraction or whatever. When I use the metronome it tells me the truth.


I record myself practicing regularly, that is really revealing! Maybe that's why I don't feel the need for the metronome that much anymore.

I usually alternate between slow and fast practice a lot. I just don't use the metronome to gradually increase the tempo. I did that in the beginning, but I don't believe in it anymore. I do slow practice and I do in tempo regularly to check that the fingerings and movements work in tempo also. I find it more suitable method to me.

Many of the pieces I work with don't have metronome markings. They are from time before the metronome existed. Tempo markings in general are questionable, since they don't necessarily come from the composer originally, but can be edited. We discuss these issues with my teacher and sometimes she suggests a slower tempo. So speed really is not an issue. It's more about learning to execute all the things in the piece well enough to be able to maintain the tempo and vary it also (when the piece allows it).

Top
#1949022 - 08/25/12 03:02 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: outo]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1779
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: outo
I record myself practicing regularly, that is really revealing!


That is another great tool that I should make more use of. I have anxiety issues when performing and it is believed that recording yourself can help with that. Supposedly, it gets you used to playing under pressure.

I probably helps some with that. However, I think that the cure for that is also the time tested ... practice ... practice ... practice. I believe that you get nervous when you are not solid with your preparation so you are hoping things go well instead of knowing it.


Edited by dmd (08/25/12 03:10 PM)
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

Top
#1949024 - 08/25/12 03:08 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: dmd]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 529
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: outo
I record myself practicing regularly, that is really revealing!


That is another great tool that I should make more use of. I have anxiety issues when performing and it is believed that recording yourself can help with that.


I does make me nervous. I used to play really badly when I had just turned the camera on and tried to play a piece (I use video camera because it's more handy than setting up audio equipment). So what I do now is just leave the camera on for a longer period when I practice and I can forget it (until the card fills smile

I can also record my playing on my silent piano, but the sound is really thin and unnatural so I use it rarely.

Top
#1949033 - 08/25/12 03:46 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Toastie]
Tech 5 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 194
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Toastie
I only use it to check a piece I've already been working on and am very familiar with, though I usually find I don't need it (could be because what i'm currently doing is very easy though). If i try to use it when I am just starting a new piece then it just makes me feel frustrated and I end up ignoring it, though I sometimes find it helpful if I need to stop and go over something I'm stuck on.

This is strange, but if I use it to play a whole piece I find it oddly hypnotic and I won't realise when I've finished playing as I'll be sitting there staring into space. I could sit and listen to it like that for hours. Hope that's not just me.


I want your metronome! It must have a much more pleasant sound this does mine.:)
_________________________
Virginia

"Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do."
J.Wooden

Top
#1949034 - 08/25/12 03:51 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Toastie]
Tech 5 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 194
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Toastie
It's an app on my iPad. It's very pleasant. I sometimes listen to it when I'm not actually playing the piano just because I like it. I think maybe this means I'm crazy, but I like anything with a steady rhythm including the noise of the fan heater and the vacuum cleaner. blush


Now, I too like the sound of a fan. I have to have a fan on to sleep every night. So, wonder if I could get that app. on my Mac laptop. I don't have an iPad.
_________________________
Virginia

"Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do."
J.Wooden

Top
#1949035 - 08/25/12 03:57 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: zrtf90]
Tech 5 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 194
Loc: South Carolina
Thanks, Richard. I shall definitely checkout that website you recommended.
_________________________
Virginia

"Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do."
J.Wooden

Top
#1949037 - 08/25/12 04:00 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: outo]
Tech 5 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 194
Loc: South Carolina



I only loose the pulse when I forget what I am doing (which happens all the time) and the metronome doesn't help with that it just causes more panic smile[/quote]


Actually the metronome causes me to loose my place.
_________________________
Virginia

"Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do."
J.Wooden

Top
#1949038 - 08/25/12 04:03 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: rocket88]
Tech 5 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 194
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: rocket88

If swaying with the music helps you to play rhythmically and in time, and you do it naturally, you should not try to stop it.

Swaying with the beat certainly did not hurt this guy's music:



Actually, I love Ray Charles...use to listen to him frequently when I was a youth. Maybe the swaying idea is not so bad an idea, except some music doesn't really go with the swaying motion.
_________________________
Virginia

"Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do."
J.Wooden

Top
#1949162 - 08/25/12 11:03 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Toastie]
John_In_Montreal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 400
Loc: Montreal Canada
Originally Posted By: Toastie
If I start saying DING-tock-tock-tock I think that's most definitely going to help people see I'm not crazy, yes. grin


Maybe you could then offer your services as a human metronome smile

John
_________________________
"My piano is therapy for me" - Rick Wright.
Instrument: Rebuilt Kurzweil K2500XS and a bunch of great vintage virtual keyboards. New Kurzweil PC3X.

Top
#1949171 - 08/25/12 11:21 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Tech 5]
Amaruk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 802
Loc: New England, USA
Another alternative to the metronome, not yet mentioned I think, is to play along with a professional recording of the piece. It helps with rhythm and can be used to spot errors (wrong notes) in your performance. I use the free app Anytune which is awesome by the way. It can slow down the recording as well as transpose it on the fly!


Edited by Amaruk (08/25/12 11:23 PM)
_________________________
My piano channel on YouTube: Link

Top
#1949174 - 08/25/12 11:57 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Tech 5]
stumbler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 280
Loc: Toronto
I can empathize with the OP. I started lessons again this summer after 30 years of sporadic playing on my own.

I've been very frustrated with the metronome. It was not close to the core of my concentration. I would lose track of it, then realize I was off but not know where it happened. I've been working on a Back invention. No problem using a metronome hands separate, but playing both hands with different dynamics for each hand I would lose track fairly quickly and couldn't tell if I was ahead or behind.

Slowly I've gained some ability to work with the metronome. One thing I found that helped was a metronome that stressed the beats differently (for example 1bigstress 2 3stress 4). The stressed beats let me know whether I had gotten ahead or fallen behind. Usually I had gotten ahead. Perversely I speed up when it gets more difficult, subjective time slows down. The metronome helped me determine that my hand positioning for the ends of some phrases was causing me to rush them.

Slowly I'm starting to be able to work with the metronome. One day while keeping to the metronome in one of the more complicated sections were I tend to speed up, I had the sense that the metronome was slowing down---weird eh?

I don't think I'll ever love the metronome, but I'm not as frustrated now.
_________________________
Roland RD-700NX


Top
#1949201 - 08/26/12 02:32 AM Re: metronome hatred [Re: stumbler]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 529
Loc: Finland
Now when I think about it the most annoying thing about the metronome probably is that when I play a piece of music I hear it in my head at the same time. I try to get the sound of my playing to match this image. Imagine listening to wonderful piece of music and then this beeping sound on it???

This is not a problem when playing sales or just practicing a small difficult section in music.

I think people understand and work out music in different ways. That's why for some people the metronome is a helpful tool and for some it is not. There's little sence in telling someone to change the way they concieve things, it has been decades since it was beleived that people all learn in similar matter and those who did differently were just lazy...


Edited by outo (08/26/12 02:36 AM)

Top
#1949214 - 08/26/12 03:33 AM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Tech 5]
Tech 5 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 194
Loc: South Carolina
I appreciate all the comments and advice from this group. I'm very new to the piano, so the word "performance" is not really part of my vocabulary yet. I'm at the very beginning stages of learning to play the piano and I'm having much difficulty with rhythm....so, sounds like from most of you that I need to just get use to it because the metronome will help with the rhythm issues eventually. Maybe I'll slow it down. I have it set on 60
_________________________
Virginia

"Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do."
J.Wooden

Top
#1949225 - 08/26/12 05:14 AM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Tech 5]
outo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 529
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: Virginia Larson
I appreciate all the comments and advice from this group. I'm very new to the piano, so the word "performance" is not really part of my vocabulary yet. I'm at the very beginning stages of learning to play the piano and I'm having much difficulty with rhythm....so, sounds like from most of you that I need to just get use to it because the metronome will help with the rhythm issues eventually. Maybe I'll slow it down. I have it set on 60


I just have to politely disagree with what some here have written. I still think the metronome is a tool for an advanced musician rather than something a beginner should use.

Piano teaching has evolved. I haven't had many teachers but I have friends who also study piano. We all have teachers who have degrees in teaching. NONE of them tell a beginner to use metronome for practice. You learn rhythm and inner pulse by counting and clapping exercises and when you play the piano you concentrate on correct movements, dynamics and touch.

Sure, it looks much more cool for an adult to play with the metronome than to do clapping exercises smile But if one wants to really learn this thing, one has to forget about looking cool for a while. That will come back later.

What I am writing next applies to classical music, so you can ignore it if you play something else...

The piano is a curious instument. It is a percussion instrument by mechanics, yet we all strive to make it "sing". To make the piano sing you try to lose the percussive nature on the piano. This does not mean that you can lose the beat. That must come naturally without effort for you to be able to do all the other things. I do not believe the metronome is the answer to get there.

EDIT:
Virginia, do you have a teacher? If so, you should listen to him. If he tells you to use the metronome, then you do. The problem with internet is that it is full of people who know what's best for you on the basis of their OWN experiences. They have never seen you play or seen how you behave in a learning situation, yet they are fast to dismiss your teacher's ideas and promote their own. Of course not all teachers are perfect, but the one you have chosen should be the one who you listen to. I used to question (mostly silently) the things my teacher told me to do quite a lot in the beginning because of what I had read in the net. It confused me and slowed my progress. I now see (after a year) that my teacher knows what she is doing because I am finally seeing the improvements in my playing. You just don't get there overnight.

If you make no progress after a longer period and the teachings of your teacher still make no sense, it's best to chance teacher instead of paying him while actually teaching yourself over the internet (possibly wrong).


Edited by outo (08/26/12 05:56 AM)

Top
#1949314 - 08/26/12 11:06 AM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Tech 5]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5450
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: Virginia Larson
I appreciate all the comments and advice from this group. I'm very new to the piano, so the word "performance" is not really part of my vocabulary yet. I'm at the very beginning stages of learning to play the piano and I'm having much difficulty with rhythm....so, sounds like from most of you that I need to just get use to it because the metronome will help with the rhythm issues eventually. Maybe I'll slow it down. I have it set on 60


This is a great place for different ideas and perspectives. It's nice to have these discussions and see what does and doesn't work for others, and different approaches to solving problems.

I'd guess that currently you're playing a quarter note on the beat with the metronome on 6o? So, yes, slowing the metronome down is one idea. You could also play a half note on the beat with the metronome at 60, which would make the music twice as slow!

If you slow it down you might also try playing just one measure at a time - it's much less stressful to play a very short part to the metronome until you get used to it.

outo's suggestion of clapping exercises is one I hear often, too. And several other of the ideas above people have shared - playing the same pitch - just a single note over and over, for example - to get used to the metronome.

Part of the fun of playing the piano, for me, is the challenge, and figuring out ways to meet it! Sounds like you're on you're way - and you'll get it done, too.

Welcome to the ABF.

Cathy
_________________________

Top
#1949325 - 08/26/12 11:54 AM Re: metronome hatred [Re: Tech 5]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Virginia, what piece of music are you using the metronome with?

Usually, people who have trouble with the metronome are trying to do it with a more complex piece of music.

They typically benefit by using it on a very easy piece, much much easier than what they can play w/o the metronome. Something like Mary had a little lamb is great.

Think of it like juggling...if you can play a piece without the metronome, and then you try to add it, or counting, that is like juggling with three balls and then adding another ball.

The brain just can't keep up, so the solution is to either slow everything down, as Cathy suggested, or to play a piece that is very very simple, which is also slowing down, in this case slowing the mental processing. I suggest you do both.

Go as simple, and as slow, as necessary to integrate the click.

I have helped dozens of students with this, and slow / simple is always what has worked.

Sometimes "simple and slow" is just playing one note over and over with the metronome.

What that does is create a new pathway in the brain. Once that is established, more complex application becomes possible.
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

Top
#1949423 - 08/26/12 03:32 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: rocket88]
Tech 5 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 194
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Virginia, what piece of music are you using the metronome with?

Usually, people who have trouble with the metronome are trying to do it with a more complex piece of music.

They typically benefit by using it on a very easy piece, much much easier than what they can play w/o the metronome. Something like Mary had a little lamb is great.

Think of it like juggling...if you can play a piece without the metronome, and then you try to add it, or counting, that is like juggling with three balls and then adding another ball.

The brain just can't keep up, so the solution is to either slow everything down, as Cathy suggested, or to play a piece that is very very simple, which is also slowing down, in this case slowing the mental processing. I suggest you do both.

Go as simple, and as slow, as necessary to integrate the click.

I have helped dozens of students with this, and slow / simple is always what has worked.

Sometimes "simple and slow" is just playing one note over and over with the metronome.

What that does is create a new pathway in the brain. Once that is established, more complex application becomes possible.


Thanks, Rocket....I will try to slow it down and convince myself that I will someday love the metronome. After all, I learned to love the Mac after being a PC person since the computer was invented, so, there's hope for the metronome. I know I need some help with rhythm...that's for sure, and if its the metronome that can help with that then so be it.
_________________________
Virginia

"Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do."
J.Wooden

Top
#1949532 - 08/26/12 07:20 PM Re: metronome hatred [Re: rocket88]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1779
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Go as simple, and as slow, as necessary to integrate the click.

I have helped dozens of students with this, and slow / simple is always what has worked.

Sometimes "simple and slow" is just playing one note over and over with the metronome.


Virginia: As you may have surmised, SLOWLY is the answer. This is something I heard over and over for years. I never quite got it but I do now. The sooner you grasp that concept the sooner you will begin to make real progress.

When you make mistakes, those mistakes become lodged in your brain and your brain thinks you intended to play that wrong note. So, the next time you play the piece ... when you come to that note, your brain will try to automatically play that WRONG note. Now, you have make a special effort to play the right note. So, the fewer mistakes you make the more your brain is able to predict what the correct notes are and it goes almost on automatic pilot. That is what you are trying to accomplish. Get that brain doing things without so much thinking on your part.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
84 registered (Atrys, AZNpiano, AndrewJCW, Art_Vandelay, a-z0-9, 21 invisible), 1257 Guests and 11 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75581 Members
42 Forums
156277 Topics
2295054 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Using Kawai MP6 faders/knobs with virtual instruments?
by chicolom
26 minutes 16 seconds ago
Coming up with new compositional methods.
by gsmonks
Today at 01:58 AM
Impromptu in A
by Ritzycat
Today at 12:42 AM
what do you think piano teachers about it?
by Maximillyan
Today at 12:15 AM
picking a fight: how many movements in op.110?
by beet31425
Yesterday at 11:36 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission