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#1951248 - 08/29/12 11:48 PM Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Has anyone played (or, currently owns) the following?

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-i...000/?mode=model

Check out the CGP-1000 post by an owner, here:

http://cvpug.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2532

Here is an interesting performance video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U54f_upaOaE

How does this piano compare with...

1) Roland V-Piano Grand
2) Yamaha AvantGrand

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#1951260 - 08/30/12 12:08 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9009
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I recall playing a CGP-1000 a few years ago.

It looks beautiful, and at that time I recall being extremely impressed by the control panel being built into the fallboard.

However, I expect the action and sound technology are largely the same as a CVP-309/CVP-409, which include thousands of sounds and accompaniments styles in order to justify the premium price tag.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1951267 - 08/30/12 12:17 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: Kawai James]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I recall playing a CGP-100 a few years ago.

It looks beautiful, and at that time I recall being extremely impressed by the control panel being built into the fallboard.

However, I expect the action and sound technology are largely the same as a CVP-309/CVP-409, which include thousands of sounds and accompaniments styles in order to justify the premium price tag.

Cheers,
James
x


Thanks James,

So, this appears to be somewhat older technology as compared with either the V-Piano, or, AvantGrand.

The owner in the link above quotes an MSRP of $31,000 although it was purchased for $16,500.

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#1951269 - 08/30/12 12:23 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9009
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Yes, the CGP-1000 pre-dates the AvantGrand and V-Piano by a few years.

Here's a posting on the Clavinova User Group from 2006:

http://cvpug.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1519.html

The post notes the technical similarities with the then top-of-the-range CVP309.

However, it appears that the CGP-1000 was reintroduced in 2008, utilising the core technology from the CVP409.

http://usa.yamaha.com/news_events/pianos...-digital-piano/

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1951270 - 08/30/12 12:23 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3797
Loc: North Carolina
MSRP $31,000 !!
Paid $16,500 !!

I think your were handed a tall tale!

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#1951274 - 08/30/12 12:33 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
Macy Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 609
The CGP-1000 is a CVP409-GP in a longer (more acoustic-like) GP cabinet with a somewhat different speaker system for about $8K-$10K more (street price). If you don't want the "arranger features" you can get the same CVP-409GP piano-only action/cabinet with a slightly improved (supposedly) piano sampling system in the CLP series even cheaper.

If you are serious about piano sound realism you will want to use a software virtual piano (Vintage D, Ivory II) rather than any of the pianos you listed (IMO). I don't think many V-Piano owners will agree that you need a software virtual piano, but if I believed that I would probably have bought the V-Piano.

The Avant Grand is the only one with a real acoustic GP action, but its sound system has a technical problem (noise gating) with external virtual piano audio, so you need an external sound system to use it with virtual piano software. The CVP-409GP does not have that problem so I would expect the CGP-1000 also doesn't have that problem, but I've never verified that.
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#1951275 - 08/30/12 12:35 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: MacMacMac]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
MSRP $31,000 !!
Paid $16,500 !!

I think your were handed a tall tale!


@MacMacMac:

Please read through the link here, for yourself:

http://cvpug.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2532

The poster (i.e., Roberta)* says this...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

03-22-2008, 11:10 AM

Roberta

Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Troy, WI
Posts: 10

I was told that the MSRP was $31,000.00 USD, but the street prices seem to be around 18-20K USD. Our dealer was very good at 16.5K plus sales tax. That included delivery, set up, some in home instruction, more store instruction, piano polish and the Yamaha Clavinova startup kit with USB memory stick and headset. A Very Sweet Deal for sure. We dealt with Netzow's in Milwaukee, WI USA with Jack Hooper. Very NICE and Professional People. We couldn't be happier and the piano is AMAZING!!!!

Roberta

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It was bought it at Netzow's in Milwaukee, WI:

http://www.netzowspianos.com/

*Extra note:

It is the poster whose name is "Roberta" that refers to her husband (sitting at the piano in the pictures) who is "Rich."

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#1951280 - 08/30/12 12:45 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
Macy Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 609
Yamaha MSRPs are adjustable depending who/when you ask. $18K was the best price I could negotiate for a CGP-1000 3 years ago so I went with the CVP-409GP.
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#1951345 - 08/30/12 04:35 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I would have AG N3 or V-Piano Grand over this CGP thing. It (CGP) is older technology and the price reflects the grand cabinet. Although that said it is an overpriced thing anyway. The N3 would blow it away for feel due to the real piano action and will have a superior sound system (also with soundboard). The sampling is more advanced with four channel spatial acoustics and the soundboard resonator and TRS are there to simulate the vibrations and resonance of a real piano.

The V-Grand has an improved concert grand piano model that has fixed the mid-range issues of the V-Piano and in general the V-Grand will be the most dynamic and nuanced DP you could ever play and also it has a sound system that claims to dynamically place components of the piano sound spatially - intelligently and "on the fly".

But the most telling point is that you could buy a good little grand piano or top quality upright for the asking price of any of these and I've come to the conclusion that that is the most sensible thing to do with that sort of money unless there are really significant lifestyle/environmental reasons why an acoustic is not a viable option (and even then a silent piano would be workable in a good proportion of situations).
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1951361 - 08/30/12 06:09 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
I remember this board ...was like a Tyros in a grand piano case ....
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1951376 - 08/30/12 07:14 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: Dr Popper]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9009
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
I remember this board ...was like a Tyros in a grand piano case ....


Lol, I actually wrote exactly this ('Tyros in a grand piano case') a few hours ago, but deleted my reply on the grounds that it was perhaps a little too harsh!

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1951400 - 08/30/12 08:18 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Now now James even the Tyros has its place ... As to where that might be outside of a retirement village dance is a matter for conjecture wink
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1951402 - 08/30/12 08:19 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3797
Loc: North Carolina
A digital piano ... for the price an acoustic grand! What a concept!

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#1951595 - 08/30/12 03:42 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: MacMacMac]
Macy Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 609
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
A digital piano ... for the price an acoustic grand! What a concept!

It has a market. Everyone's needs/wants aren't the same.

Some people want a digital and not an acoustic because they want a MIDI output to drive a computer, either for the variety of piano sounds, accompanying voices, enjoy tech fun and games, whatever. Yet, they want the piano for their living room and the wife factor dictates a "real" piano case, not a slab on a stand and a bunch of speakers. The CGP-1000 is as close to a "real" 4'11" acoustic piano appearance as you can get. It's street price of around $18K is because of that acoustic case. Like I said above, it's a CVP-409GP in an even more realistic case for about an $8K higher street price. I can see how that is a reasonable choice for a few people. It was a little more than I wanted to spend 3 years ago for the appearance difference between the models.

I've been looking at new acoustic grands for the last couple of months and I'm having a heck of a time convincing myself I would be happier with an acoustic grand than my current digital setup. That would be a topic for another thread, but I didn't really get excited about any acoustics until I played a new Steinway B, and then I worry about losing the MIDI output. The thought of hacking a new $80K Steinway to add MIDI output leaves me cold, although I know someone that did just that. The Yamaha "silent" acoustics have a good factory MIDI output system, but most acoustic piano manufacturers don't have their own factory MIDI output.
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#1951726 - 08/30/12 09:00 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
With all of this having been said above I am inclined to stick with the Roland V-Piano as it is best in overall resonance, excellent sustain decay times, and has a very realistic action. Also, the sounds (while not the best) are certainly acceptable.

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#1952104 - 08/31/12 02:49 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: pv88
With all of this having been said above I am inclined to stick with the Roland V-Piano as it is best in overall resonance, excellent sustain decay times, and has a very realistic action. Also, the sounds (while not the best) are certainly acceptable.


Good decision Richard. If an acoustic is out of the question maybe you could do a deal on a V-Grand one day. I am very reliably informed that the new model on it has fixed the mid-range issues, in which case it would be quite simply the best digital piano ever made. Anyway, the CA-95 will arrive soon, yes?
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1952401 - 09/01/12 02:00 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: EssBrace]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Good decision Richard. If an acoustic is out of the question maybe you could do a deal on a V-Grand one day. I am very reliably informed that the new model on it has fixed the mid-range issues, in which case it would be quite simply the best digital piano ever made. Anyway, the CA-95 will arrive soon, yes?


Steve,

Yes, I do believe that the Roland V-Grand is more than likely the best digital to be had, since all other sampled pianos fall short in regards to authentic acoustic-like resonance and decay.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

V-PIANO SOUNDS (PRESETS) QUESTIONS:

I wonder why Roland hasn't come up with several new sounds that eliminate the mid-range issue for the V-Piano (not V-Grand), that could be downloaded as new alternative presets to use (as they did when adding the "Evolution" models) instead of the original presets?

Here was the original downloads page for those four "Evolution" models:

V-Piano Evolution System Program Upgrade

It's only too bad that Roland declines any responsibility* whatsoever in helping the customer with this update, as this is clearly mentioned under "Cautions when performing the update" and in the "License Agreement."

*Extra note:

So, if you can't get this download / update to work, you are on your own.
(This may be the reason they haven't come out with any NEW updates!)

Could any new (updated) presets eliminate the mid-range issue?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And, as for the CA95's it appears they are just now shipping out to the local stores and will arrive in another 10 to 15 days, or so.

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#1952434 - 09/01/12 05:12 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
It is my understanding that the new "V-Concert Grand" model from the V-Grand can be loaded into the V-Piano. But Roland aren't telling anyone that because it would remove any differentiation from V-Piano to V-Grand (another quite disgraceful slap in the face to V-Piano owners, who would probably welcome some support/update!).

Whilst the new model has what I would call the Roland signature sound the mid-range "artificialness" (I know that word doesn't exist!) is largely fixed. It is only one new model as featured on V-Grand but it will work on V-Piano. I think the architecture of the new model is somewhat different because the editable parameters are different too (I think you can edit it somewhat less than the original V-Piano models, although it is still more editable than other DPs). Please note that I haven't played the V-Grand so cannot comment personally but I have heard it and from what I've heard the dodgy mids are pretty much fixed with this one new voice/model and it has been successfully loaded onto a V-Piano. Try contacting Roland to see if they can assist (although I have a horrible feeling they will deny all knowledge of this).

Cheers,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1952459 - 09/01/12 07:14 AM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2202
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Very interesting indeed! I always thought that the V-Grand sounded more natural in the demo recordings. (I assume the demos used that V-Concert Grand sound)

Greg.


Edited by sullivang (09/01/12 07:14 AM)

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#1952561 - 09/01/12 12:53 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: sullivang]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: sullivang
Very interesting indeed! I always thought that the V-Grand sounded more natural in the demo recordings. (I assume the demos used that V-Concert Grand sound)

Greg.


Yes some of them did...i'll try to find a link to illustrate my point. I could cry to be honest because although that "Roland sound" can be a little fatiguing in the long term (can't really explain why) I honestly think if that model had been on the V-Piano I'd still have mine. I've considered trying to pick up a second hand one and loading the new model into it, but I don't know....not sure!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0-dC7eT_Oo


Edited by EssBrace (09/01/12 01:38 PM)
Edit Reason: YT link added
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1952678 - 09/01/12 05:23 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: EssBrace]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
It is my understanding that the new "V-Concert Grand" model from the V-Grand can be loaded into the V-Piano. But Roland aren't telling anyone that because it would remove any differentiation from V-Piano to V-Grand (another quite disgraceful slap in the face to V-Piano owners, who would probably welcome some support/update!).

Whilst the new model has what I would call the Roland signature sound the mid-range "artificialness" (I know that word doesn't exist!) is largely fixed. It is only one new model as featured on V-Grand but it will work on V-Piano. I think the architecture of the new model is somewhat different because the editable parameters are different too (I think you can edit it somewhat less than the original V-Piano models, although it is still more editable than other DPs). Please note that I haven't played the V-Grand so cannot comment personally but I have heard it and from what I've heard the dodgy mids are pretty much fixed with this one new voice/model and it has been successfully loaded onto a V-Piano. Try contacting Roland to see if they can assist (although I have a horrible feeling they will deny all knowledge of this).

Cheers,

Steve


I think it might even be better if they would consider adding at least FOUR new sounds (like with the "Evolution" update) in which all of them address the mid-range issue of the V-Piano.

However, I do admit to taking offense to the "Vintage II" models, as they simply do not sound anything at all like a "Bosendorfer."*

*According to Scott Tibbs (of Roland) here below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ewq6NgYpxA

All of the Vintage II models should be redone...

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#1952695 - 09/01/12 06:03 PM Re: Yamaha Clavinova CGP-1000 [Re: pv88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
You are right of course. But I cannot even imagine anyone ever using the Vintage 2 model variations - they are just awful!
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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