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Oh my goodness, I never thought I'd see the day...a Roland MIDI controller (A-88) with a decent hammer action (PHA Ivory feel-G). I know it's not PHAIII, but if the price is right, this is great news for sampler users in my opinion

Wow, the controllers look terrific!

I also really like the look of the other new products: SuperNatural sound module, DP-90, and RD-700NX software upgrade.

Lots of great stuff!

Cheers,
James
x

Don't get too excited about the Integra yet ....

Maximum Polyphony
128 voices (varies according to the sound generator load)

So much for the Jupiter 80 in a box ......

no aftertouch .....

Piano action - why would you want after touch?

James
x

Asked (by you) and answered at http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1945373
;-)

Basically, if you're gigging with just one board (or using just one board in a small home studio), so you're playing synth or other AT-expressive sounds from the weighted action you need for piano, well, it's better to have AT on your weighted board than to not have it at all.

In some ways it's less than a Jupiter 80, but in other ways it's more.

More: 16-part 16-channel multi-timbral vs 10-part 4-channel. Separate fx for each part. The addition of the XV-5080 sounds and all 12 SRX cards (though only up to 4 at a time). etc.

You could probably buy two of them and have up to 256 polyphony, and still be around the price of a Jupiter 80.

Of course, the Jupiter gives you a high quality keybed and a control surface and interface that lends itself to on-the-fly patch changes independently over different regions of the keyboard... If all you want are the sounds, the module is probably the way to go, but that won't duplicate the entire performance environment.

Yeah it's got some good stuff as well ... the XV-5080 and SRX thing is good and will save screwing around with that god awful interface. I've got a JP-80 and a XV-5080's (or three) lying about so I don't need this at all ...but nothing exceeds like excess so I'll give it a go.

Well its nice that Racks are back ...the Kronos Rack is about to be announced and another one is on the way as well .... if only Roland would stop making new stuff and just reissue old stuff ... MKS-80 anyone?

Just cause it's weighted doesn't mean you don't play Synth's on it James ....

Reading tea leaves?

Maybe we'll finally get the Motif Rack XF... i.e. the Motif Rack XS with the expanded ROM sound set of the XF and a slot to put one of their 512 mb or 1024 mb flash cards. I'm surprised we haven't seen that already.

But a Kronos rack? Hmmm.

Hurray for the racks. Going back to the old ages - master keyboard controller (lighweight , but with reasonable keys) and one or two good modules. Check, done, go !

Only thing missing (again) is after touch. The pretty light Ivory Feel G is no real piano keybed like PHA-III or GF anyway, so after touch wouldn't hurt it. But be loved by many musicians...

Why this never crosses the mind of the manufacturers is beyond my understanding. For a Classical (wooden) piano keybed for 99% AP playing, aftertouch is not necessary and may hurt the touch of the keys. But for gigging with lots of different sounds AT would be a real gift. Don't want just d-beam and mod wheel, cause you have to lift one hand. How much would it cost - the piece of rubber...

I'm waiting for dewster to complain about the unnecessary controls on the left hand side making the board ridiculously long.

And I'd be inclined to agree with him.

Hmmm... an A-88 and Electro3 (61-key) would make for quite a cool (and portable) gigging setup.

Cheers,
James
x

Why don't they make these controls detachable , so you can place it where ever you want.

Indeed having it all on the left side (Doepfer styLe) makes it hard to reach and very long. They must have made it with desktop producing in mind (in front of computer monitor and desk) , keeping the depth as small as possible.

Don't really like the Ivory G ; feels cheap and bit clunky to me. I wonder if the upcoming Casios are a better alternative in that respect , although they are not soundless controller boards. Price may be quite similar.

Well, they have at least printed After Touch on it ;-) (look at the writing above the keys)

Except the A88 doesn't weigh much less than an FP4 (and probably feels the same). For gigging, I don't think I see any advantage to the A88 over the FP4 except price and the pitch/mod control (which wouldn't do anything if you were triggering an E3 anyway). I'd rather have the FP4 and have backup/extra sounds, and speakers (even if you were using the speakers to play the Nord piano sound you may choose to trigger from it).

Price aside, for less weight than the A88, you can get a MOX8 which looks like a far more capable controller. Deep, though, which is another issue.

For a cool, portable gigging setup at low cost, you could pair the E3 with a Casio 88 to accomplish the same thing you're talking about, at less weight. I sed to suggest the CDP-100 for this kind of thing... decent feel, 24 lbs, under $400... and as a bonus, I liked its dark Rhodes sound better than the EPs in the Nord. But that's now discontinued.

I'd bet that's to assign AT to the much maligned (and deservedly so) d-beam.

No aftertouch is a huge oversight, IMO. If you mate the A-88 to the Integra module as they suggest, you can't access the AT that would be present of most of the synth sounds. Quite baffling to leave AT off a controller board. If they had put it on, I would have considered getting one - it would be the best controller on the market. Since they haven't, I'm not going to consider it. People can and do play synth sounds on weighted boards. It's a myth that you need to have an unweighted spring action keyboard to play a synth sound. I responsive weight action like the Roland would be more than nimble enough to play good synth solos. I can't believe they didn't at least offer a model that contains aftertouch.

Excellent news. Kronos German Grand is a great sounding piano. And the mellower Japanese ones too are very nice. I could be tempted to partner such a thing with the MP10....

Has anybody installed the RD700NX software update? Is there any significant change with this update apart from the spec mentioned in rolandconnect.com?

I've downloaded the latest live set list and the wireless connect manual. They don't tell you what the wireless does, only how to connect, so I'm a bit wary of them screwing up real-time to make room for the wireless i-crap (the NX main processor seems a bit underpowered as it is). The live set thing is maybe not all that useful either (just presets?) though curiosity will probably get the better of me at some point and I'll cave.

Im interested in the DP90S..how many body parts is it going to cost me?

For $3,300...nevermind.

I was just thinking the same thing . . . great minds must think alike!

Too bad there isn't an A-76, with the top octave and joystick area chopped off (plus aftertouch - but leave the D-beam only as long as it doesn't add precious length, I think it's kind of neat).

I think it's kind of a waste of time, but different strokes.

What I would like to see is an A-88 without all the extra knobs and buttons on the side - essentially, just the keyboard action...as compact as possible.

James
x

Well, tell your company to do it
- preferably with their best action, or an even better one. And while they are at it, let them make it so durable that it won't need replacement for a lifetime

I'd like something really geared for gigging. Lightweight, but with patch selection buttons, and sliders to control the volumes of different zones. Without those things, it's really limited to, well, your application, i.e. driving a board that's right on top of it, whose own controls are right there. But if you want to drive sounds in rack modules, or an iPad, or a laptop... you don't need all the stuff they put on "computer" oriented controllers ("transport" buttons and such), but you need to be able to manage zones for splits and layers, and you need a quick way to call up patches and adjust volumes. Basically, what controllers used to be, before manufacturers decided that the only market for soundless controllers was that of computer based home studios.

KAWAI has no lightweight 88 key keybed. RH II boards are still > 20 kg.

Yep, JFP nailed it.

Kawai's current keyboard actions prioritise touch realism over unit size/weight.

This is not an issue if you're predominantly a home/studio musician, which is why we see many MP8/MP8II/MP10 used with software pianos. However, if you gig frequently and favour effortless portability over authenticy, a Kawai DP action probably isn't for you.

Cheers,
James
x

Ugh, their best action is going to weigh 70+ pounds!

I do wish Kawai would make a lightweight "budget" action, to compete with FP-4F, MOX8/P95, Casio, Fatar (Electro 3HP, Numa Piano)... there is a big market for people who are simply not going to consider these 40+ pound behemoths, and it would be great if we could get some of the Kawai engineering into something more gig-friendly.

Yep, I installed the RD700NX 2.00 update.

It does as it says on the box; you get 50 additional synth presets (some of them cleverly done and may be useful, at least for ideas, if you're into "that kind of music") and then support for the iPad application and the WiFi dongle you can buy. Oh, and you also now have 200 slots for user presets instead of 100.

I've also tested the iPad application. It is quite unstable for me and keeps dropping the connection when hooked up via USB (using the camera connection kit, as instructed in the application manual). I am not planning to buy the WiFi dongle, though.

The applciation allows you quick access to 4 banks of 8 presets from the iPad, and also some simple tweakability to the tones of the individual presets (levels, split points, what tone, etc -- but not that much more, it looks).

I would have liked a simple thing like being able to shuffle my presets around more easily, but that is not supported :-(


I cannot detect any other differences on the piano itself or the sounds.


-- Per.

+1

... well that's why I wrote

But what if you only require the action, and don't need any knobs or buttons? Let's say you play keys in a jazz trio - you're unlikely to use layers or splits, surely?

I agree with this. Having just spent the afternoon practicing jazz standards and disliking most of the AP sounds on my gigging boards (the old FP-4 making me wrinkle my nose a little less than the MP6 and Numa, oddly enough), I realize I've come to the point where a high-powered tablet (or equivalent) plus software is probably the only solution for live use. The Kawai MP6 would function as a great controller, with its quality action, its easy access to internal and external zones, and its sensible positioning of additional controls. It could use having a few pounds shaved off its weight (like its owner ) but it is reasonably portable. It also has the benefit of a nice Rhodes sample.

Likewise, I agree with Scott that the FP-4F makes more sense in many ways than the new A88 controller - or the old Yamaha CP33. Roland is slavishly devoted to that left hand control panel that simply adds awkward inches to the length of many of their stage boards.

Soundless controllers for live performance is something of a niche market to begin with. I think performers who would buy a soundless controller to just play one sound all night would be too small a niche within a niche to bother catering to. Those players can buy a model that has patch select buttons and zone faders and simply not use those features, but I think leaving those things off would cater to too small a market, people who want a controller for basically just one sound. Especially since such a player could probably find a board with the sound he wants built in. It's the mixing and matching of different sounds (often from multiple sources) that I think is a big part of what a controller can offer.

Great. I guess you could activate that with your forehead. ;-)

For those who applied the 2.0 upgrade..

If you press Synth, does it start at preset 300?.. i think that's wrong, shouldn't it start at preset 271?

cheers
beto

It's probably on purpose, to make the new, improved live sets more easily discoverable than the old ones for people trying out the board in the shop. Doesn't make a lot of sense for people just upgrading though.

To change it back: hold down the SYNTH button with live set 271 selected to make that one appear first. It's a useful feature for getting quick access to the sounds you use the most.

It starts on the new registrations in version 2

I agree with this totally. It's good that Roland is producing a weighted 88er controller, because maybe the other major companies will follow suit (hint), however they really aren't considering the needs of gigging musicians very well. Two buttons, and two knobs? Program change by holding down a button and pressing keys on the keyboard? And don't get me started on pitchbend/mod levers rather than wheels. For pitchbend that's fine, but opening a filter with a mod lever that springs back when you let it go doesn't make for happy camping, nor does trying to control a Leslie effect that way, or many other functions. yet they insist on their lever in much the same way that Apple insisted for twenty years or so on a one button mouse. The narrow, too long keyboard has been mentioned. Personally, I'd appreciate space on top of a controller for a laptop.

My suggestion would be that the manufacturers ask musicians what would be most useful, and listen to what is said.

Exactly.

Also, once again, we have a new board intended at least somewhat for gigging (hence the light weight blurbs) with NO music desk.

Is it really that expensive to cast in a slot (Casio Privia style) and include a plastic music desk that slips in if you want it? Or do it with some other design?

Some of us gigging musicians use such things for set lists, lyrics, and (gasp) music!

Sure would beat lugging around a folding music stand.